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I noted that Apple says the governments in question are allies of the United States. I wonder if this is a case of American intelligence outsourcing the surveil

I noted that Apple says the governments in question are allies of the United States. I wonder if this is a case of American intelligence outsourcing the surveillance of American citizens to foreign intelligence. If that is indeed the case, I’d expect a quid pro quo.

delfinom 3y ago
Five Eyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
mdhen 3y ago
Yep sounds like five eyes.
iamshs 3y ago
"democracies allied to the United States." - includes India too.
- smoldesu 3y ago
  Maybe so, but it seems clear that the surveillance goes both ways: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-09-23/us-diplomat-says-intelligence-from-five-eyes-nations-helped-canada-to-link-india-to-sikhs-killing https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-09-23/us-dip...
  - iamshs 3y ago
    Except that India is not spying on US Government but its own Apple/Google users.
andsoitis 3y ago
> I wonder if this is a case of American intelligence outsourcing the surveillance of American citizens to foreign intelligence. If that is indeed the case, I’d expect a quid pro quo. Yet it is the US government who revealed it: "In a letter to the Department of Justice, Senator Ron Wyden said foreign officials were demanding the data from Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) Google and Apple (AAPL.O). Although details were sparse, the letter lays out yet another path by which governments can track smartphones." - https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...
- Terretta 3y ago
  > Yet it is the US government who revealed it Less "the government" and more "a member of government", the same member who has revealed and demanded accountability when discovering domestic government overreach. We should choose our congress critters carefully.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    Indeed. But government is also a process and in this case I think it is fair to say that the process is leading to good outcomes (transparency, accountability).
    - AlexandrB 3y ago
      It doesn't seem like enough. The PATRIOT act has been on the books for 20+ years now and we only rarely get a peek at what it's being used for. James Clapper (in)famously lied to Congress[1] and still got to keep his job, so I'm not sure about accountability either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper#Testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance,_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper#Testimony_to_Con...
  - calvinmorrison 3y ago
    Congress has so little power its becoming a vestigial organ. Only there to placate the masses who believe their vote makes any impact.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      This is some wacko BS. Congress has tons of power which can impact your daily lives. If you think it doesn't have that power, you're just not well read on the subject. If you think modern day politics of us vs them divisiveness gives the impression that they cannot do any thing is a dangerous interpretation. It's also a bit sophomoric of an interpretation as well.
      - 3y ago
knallfrosch 3y ago
That's how they circumvent the ban on domestic spying. The US spies on Australians* and the Australians spy on US citizens, then they exchange the data. Easy. *And/or other Five Eyes members.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

delfinom 3y ago

Five Eyes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

mdhen 3y ago

Yep sounds like five eyes.

iamshs 3y ago

"democracies allied to the United States." - includes India too.

smoldesu 3y ago
Maybe so, but it seems clear that the surveillance goes both ways: https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-09-23/us-diplomat-says-intelligence-from-five-eyes-nations-helped-canada-to-link-india-to-sikhs-killing https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-09-23/us-dip...
- iamshs 3y ago
  Except that India is not spying on US Government but its own Apple/Google users.

andsoitis 3y ago

> I wonder if this is a case of American intelligence outsourcing the surveillance of American citizens to foreign intelligence. If that is indeed the case, I’d expect a quid pro quo. Yet it is the US government who revealed it: "In a letter to the Department of Justice, Senator Ron Wyden said foreign officials were demanding the data from Alphabet's (GOOGL.O) Google and Apple (AAPL.O). Although details were sparse, the letter lays out yet another path by which governments can track smartphones." - https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments-spying-apple-google-users-through-push-notifications-us-senator-2023-12-06/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/governments...

Terretta 3y ago
> Yet it is the US government who revealed it Less "the government" and more "a member of government", the same member who has revealed and demanded accountability when discovering domestic government overreach. We should choose our congress critters carefully.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  Indeed. But government is also a process and in this case I think it is fair to say that the process is leading to good outcomes (transparency, accountability).
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    It doesn't seem like enough. The PATRIOT act has been on the books for 20+ years now and we only rarely get a peek at what it's being used for. James Clapper (in)famously lied to Congress[1] and still got to keep his job, so I'm not sure about accountability either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper#Testimony_to_Congress_on_NSA_surveillance,_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clapper#Testimony_to_Con...
- calvinmorrison 3y ago
  Congress has so little power its becoming a vestigial organ. Only there to placate the masses who believe their vote makes any impact.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    This is some wacko BS. Congress has tons of power which can impact your daily lives. If you think it doesn't have that power, you're just not well read on the subject. If you think modern day politics of us vs them divisiveness gives the impression that they cannot do any thing is a dangerous interpretation. It's also a bit sophomoric of an interpretation as well.
    - 3y ago

knallfrosch 3y ago

That's how they circumvent the ban on domestic spying. The US spies on Australians* and the Australians spy on US citizens, then they exchange the data. Easy. *And/or other Five Eyes members.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]