5 ms·

There are lots of factors, and every work situation is different, but from my perspective in tech I think misery with work is largely a symptom of people's atti

There are lots of factors, and every work situation is different, but from my perspective in tech I think misery with work is largely a symptom of people's attitudes. Pay and working conditions are better than 90% (or more) of other jobs out there and you often don't even need a bachelors degree. If people outside big tech hubs knew the details of tech workers situations they might lose their mind.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
"Be thankful for what you have; You'll end up having more. If you focus on what you don't have, you'll never have enough." - Oprah. IME, >50% focus on what they don't have - which is why they complain so much.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I actually agree with those words, but they rankle when coming from a billionaire. I felt the same way when Munger's quote about not feeling like a victim was posted here, particularly after someone mentioned that apparently his family connections were able to overturn his denial to enter Harvard. Maybe we should find some spiritual leaders or other to hear from. At least Oprah might at least have some distant memory of what it was like to be poor I suppose.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    > I actually agree with those words, but they rankle when coming from a billionaire Oprah is arguably the single most self-made billionaire in the history of the US. She was almost literally dirt poor for her entire childhood, and was basically poor until her late 20s. I think she gets a free pass here.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      I mean, she wasn't just poor, she was a poor black woman in America. She certainly seems genuine even with all the money, but I still have a tough time giving her a free pass - she can afford to pay whatever the pass costs.
JohnFen 3y ago
> Pay and working conditions are better than 90% of other jobs out there Pay, sure, but pay doesn't make happiness. Working conditions? I doubt that. But that's a subjective thing, so it's hard to really measure.
- voisin 3y ago
  Working conditions may not make happiness but they can certainly make unhappiness.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > Pay, sure, but pay doesn't make happiness Yet pay is the point of work, wouldn't you say? > Working conditions? I doubt that. As I noted, work conditions vary. But non-physical labor, remote possible, pushing the upper boundaries on vacation (unlimited vacation which isnt a scam), family leave, health insurace, etc. I think you really have to cherry pick to beat tech.
  - deeg 3y ago
    I'm in complete agreement with you. What job category has more employees than software engineering coupled with better pay and working conditions? That doesn't mean we can't be miserable (and I've gone through a few bouts myself) but it's a great field right now.
  - massysett 3y ago
    Unlimited vacation is always, always a 100 percent scam. Unlimited vacation would mean that you go to work never yet you remain on the payroll. Obviously this is impossible. So “unlimited vacation” really means that there is a limit, but your employer either doesn’t know what it is or won’t tell you, and you don’t know what it is. So you have to worry about how much vacation to take because there is a limit, it’s just not definitized. Always a 100% complete scam.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      I don't know what your definition of scam is, but every employer I've known has been very transparent about what unlimited vacation does and does not mean. If someone actually thinks unlimited means working is optional, that's on them.
asynchronous 3y ago
Gonna push back on the bachelor degree note: According to data just released from LinkedIn, 88% of tech jobs require a 4 year degree, which is higher than almost any other job category in the US. Overwhelmingly you need one.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I think the time when you could get a programming job without a degree quietly just ended, during the massive layoffs. Of the dozen people I know affected by the layoffs, only the ones without degrees are still without work. In fact two of them have not had a single interview beyond HR phone screen in months of looking, even with 7-10 years experience. Note also that most of these people don't have CS or other relevant degrees, just degrees at all. Programming now seems to fall under the same rules as other white collar professions.
- civilitty 3y ago
  "Or equivalent experience" are the magic words found on almost every job posting. Outside of a few corps like Google, the degree requirements are rarely a dealbreaker.
  - happytoexplain 3y ago
    I have first hand experience with multiple businesses ranging from smaller software houses to tech teams in huge non-tech companies - resumes without a relevant 4-year degree are simply discarded. It's automatic. There is simply never such a dearth of applications that a 4-year degree stops being a feasible first-pass for pruning the numbers down (despite how many great candidates it throws away...). In fact, it may be the opposite - that huge tech companies are more likely to drop that requirement.
    - unforeseen9991 3y ago
      I was going to say that isn't my experience, but then I realized I haven't dealt with sending a resume into the void, that while I send in a resume, i've always landed my next gig through my network. Building a network is absolutely key, people who enjoy working with you remember you and at some point you just become set
tennisflyi 3y ago
Yes and y’all are none the wiser (like you said), i.e., y’all think everyone has it like you.

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

"Be thankful for what you have; You'll end up having more. If you focus on what you don't have, you'll never have enough." - Oprah. IME, >50% focus on what they don't have - which is why they complain so much.

hotpotamus 3y ago
I actually agree with those words, but they rankle when coming from a billionaire. I felt the same way when Munger's quote about not feeling like a victim was posted here, particularly after someone mentioned that apparently his family connections were able to overturn his denial to enter Harvard. Maybe we should find some spiritual leaders or other to hear from. At least Oprah might at least have some distant memory of what it was like to be poor I suppose.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  > I actually agree with those words, but they rankle when coming from a billionaire Oprah is arguably the single most self-made billionaire in the history of the US. She was almost literally dirt poor for her entire childhood, and was basically poor until her late 20s. I think she gets a free pass here.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I mean, she wasn't just poor, she was a poor black woman in America. She certainly seems genuine even with all the money, but I still have a tough time giving her a free pass - she can afford to pay whatever the pass costs.

JohnFen 3y ago

> Pay and working conditions are better than 90% of other jobs out there Pay, sure, but pay doesn't make happiness. Working conditions? I doubt that. But that's a subjective thing, so it's hard to really measure.

voisin 3y ago
Working conditions may not make happiness but they can certainly make unhappiness.
nonethewiser 3y ago
> Pay, sure, but pay doesn't make happiness Yet pay is the point of work, wouldn't you say? > Working conditions? I doubt that. As I noted, work conditions vary. But non-physical labor, remote possible, pushing the upper boundaries on vacation (unlimited vacation which isnt a scam), family leave, health insurace, etc. I think you really have to cherry pick to beat tech.
- deeg 3y ago
  I'm in complete agreement with you. What job category has more employees than software engineering coupled with better pay and working conditions? That doesn't mean we can't be miserable (and I've gone through a few bouts myself) but it's a great field right now.
- massysett 3y ago
  Unlimited vacation is always, always a 100 percent scam. Unlimited vacation would mean that you go to work never yet you remain on the payroll. Obviously this is impossible. So “unlimited vacation” really means that there is a limit, but your employer either doesn’t know what it is or won’t tell you, and you don’t know what it is. So you have to worry about how much vacation to take because there is a limit, it’s just not definitized. Always a 100% complete scam.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    I don't know what your definition of scam is, but every employer I've known has been very transparent about what unlimited vacation does and does not mean. If someone actually thinks unlimited means working is optional, that's on them.

asynchronous 3y ago

Gonna push back on the bachelor degree note: According to data just released from LinkedIn, 88% of tech jobs require a 4 year degree, which is higher than almost any other job category in the US. Overwhelmingly you need one.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
I think the time when you could get a programming job without a degree quietly just ended, during the massive layoffs. Of the dozen people I know affected by the layoffs, only the ones without degrees are still without work. In fact two of them have not had a single interview beyond HR phone screen in months of looking, even with 7-10 years experience. Note also that most of these people don't have CS or other relevant degrees, just degrees at all. Programming now seems to fall under the same rules as other white collar professions.
civilitty 3y ago
"Or equivalent experience" are the magic words found on almost every job posting. Outside of a few corps like Google, the degree requirements are rarely a dealbreaker.
- happytoexplain 3y ago
  I have first hand experience with multiple businesses ranging from smaller software houses to tech teams in huge non-tech companies - resumes without a relevant 4-year degree are simply discarded. It's automatic. There is simply never such a dearth of applications that a 4-year degree stops being a feasible first-pass for pruning the numbers down (despite how many great candidates it throws away...). In fact, it may be the opposite - that huge tech companies are more likely to drop that requirement.
  - unforeseen9991 3y ago
    I was going to say that isn't my experience, but then I realized I haven't dealt with sending a resume into the void, that while I send in a resume, i've always landed my next gig through my network. Building a network is absolutely key, people who enjoy working with you remember you and at some point you just become set

tennisflyi 3y ago

Yes and y’all are none the wiser (like you said), i.e., y’all think everyone has it like you.