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Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with
by breput 3y ago
Do yourself a favor and listen to at least one of the six part series that Behind The Bastards podcast[0] did on Kissinger. It will give you a background, with sources, on the "controversial" statesman that you'll read eulogies about over the next few days.
[0] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-one-kissinger
[1] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-two-kissinger
[2] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-three-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-three-kissing...
[3] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-four-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-four-kissinge...
[4] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-five-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-five-kissinge...
[5] https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-six-kissinger https://omny.fm/shows/behind-the-bastards/part-six-kissinger
- klik99 3y agoHaven't listened to the podcast (yet) and don't know much about kissinger but the description "the Forest Gump of war crimes" made me laugh out loud, whether or not it's accurate.
- nicbou 3y agoIt’s a light entertainment show. The host is an ex Cracked writer. It’s mean-spirited but very funny.
- phatskat 3y agoAnd very well-researched - I think this part is important especially for people skeptical of the show’s name. Also “light entertainment” really depends on the particular episode’s subject imo
- buildbot 3y agoYes seriously - there’s a strong argument the Kissinger committed actual treason several times. He’s responsible for the deaths (hundreds?) of thousands.
- e40 3y agoMillions according to the Rolling Stone article.
- lyu07282 3y ago[flagged]
- tacocataco 3y agoWe can't afford to be neutral on a moving train.
- Sai_ 3y agoCan you explain what you mean by this? On a moving train, having an open mind itself is a good thing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- greesil 3y agoIt's that a Kissinger quote?
- heyjonboy 3y agoIt’s a Howard Zinn quote. Or a System of a Down lyric, depending on where you’re starting from.
- humanxperiments 3y ago[dead]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Pxtl 3y agoI've already listened and it's excellent. Tl;dr version: Kissinger was an almost superhuman ass-kisser. He had an incredible knack for playing along with whatever insane idea somebody had and made everybody in the room feel goddamned brilliant. The richest, most powerful, and most beautiful people in the world just loved being around him because he consistently sounded interesting and made them feel intelligent. And he used that power to stay in the halls of power whoever was in charge. The only thing that seemed his own idea was personally planning and picking bombing targets to murder hell out of everybody in Cambodia.
- koolba 3y ago> The only thing that seemed his own idea was personally planning and picking bombing targets to murder hell out of everybody in Cambodia. That and being a total horn dog.
- rmason 3y agoThe crowd here might find it preposterous but Kissinger dated models and movie stars. One that I remember was the actress Jill St. John who was a Bond girl in the movie Diamonds are forever. The two dated for a couple of years. Miss St. John also dated Michael Caine, Sean Connery, David Frost and Tom Selleck.
- nameless_me 3y agoProving once again an ugly man can get the ladies if they have compensating traits.
- hilux 3y agoWell, he did say that "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac."
- buildbot 3y agoInterestingly, the Behind the Bastards episodes on him point out that his relationships with women may have been one of the only non-bastard things about him. He was seen as “safe” compared to other men of the time!
- hammock 3y ago[flagged]
- baybal2 3y ago[flagged]
- workingdog 3y ago[flagged]
- ctrlp 3y agoSome might consider the normalization and growth of China as a competitor superpower treasonous to US interests.
- mattnewton 3y agoNot saying I agree with the charge but this also doesn’t refute it. I mean, for one thing the US believes the state department and military of the US is above international war crimes courts. (Thats the actual official position).
- ceejayoz 3y agoNot just "above"; US law explicitly gives the President the power to invade The Hague if they get their hands on American officials or military personnel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... > The Act gives the President power to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoSo what? Many countries do not recognize the ICC, not just the US. We don’t want a Global World Order; that’s a European fantasy Europe can keep. We don’t share all the same values or laws and never will. I’m glad for The Hague Invasion Act.
- imgabe 3y agoReading through the descriptions of the episodes of this podcast it seems a lot like they start with a conclusion and then confirmation bias themselves (and everyone else who already agrees with them). Maybe not the most objective source.
- buildbot 3y agoTry listening to it
- imgabe 3y agoIt’s co-hosted by the guys from The Dollop, who I’ve listened to quite a lot. They’re funny and entertaining, but they’re comedians not historians. Their whole schtick is just reading some book and incredulously saying “holy shit” about whatever it says, without any critical analysis. Edit: and there’s nothing wrong with that! Just recognize when something is entertainment vs. trying to be objective.
- buildbot 3y agoNo, they are guests. They are not the people who did the research! Robert Evans is an excellent journalist.
- jjeaff 3y agoin my experience, this is basically how all podcasts and documentaries seem to be made.
- boppo1 3y agoTry Age of Napoleon. Mentioned the reasons in my last post.
- imgabe 3y agoWhich makes it such a shame that people throw them around like they are an authoritative source of anything. It’s literally just some guy who read a book and has a microphone. It’s as good as whatever book they read.
- 13of40 3y agoI've listened to the podcast, but one Kissinger op I don't think was mentioned there that always stuck out to me was Operation Popeye. It was a real life attempt to extend the monsoon through cloud seeding so the Ho Chi Minh trail would get washed out and unusable. I think it might be the origin of the "chemtrails" conspiracy theory. (Not quite as evil as randomly picking out grid squares and bombing them of course.)
- LispSporks22 3y agoAlso check out The Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens. I think it was made into a documentary later. The man was worthy of the title of war criminal, but of course we don't prosecute our own and we certainly don't recommend to the ICC (we're the good guys, you see). It will be interested to see what obituaries settle on this week though.
- CalChris 3y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIVDZYVDraM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIVDZYVDraM
- mmpdev 3y agoNot only would we not recommend our war criminals to the ICC, we have on the books the authorization to be able to invade the Hague in case any US person was being held or tried. Hague Invasion Act / ASPA is wild.
- skrebbel 3y agoThe rest of the west is allied with the US because they’re the least evil guys, not because they’re the good guys. I’m Dutch and knowing that the US has a constant threat of extreme violence against us written into their law scares the crap out of me. We’re supposed to be happy jolly NATO allies but srsly that shit is not cool.
- vasco 3y agoUS centered NATO imperialism sometimes shows itself amongst all the Hollywood and the international PR indeed.
- ilkke 3y agoLeast evil by what metric?
- sgift 3y agoAll countries of comparable power are murderous autocracies. By that metric. At least I cannot think of any that isn't, feel free to try to proof me wrong.
- hulitu 3y agoNational's geographic Kissinger also does a good job highlighting his "achievements".
- kyrra 3y agoFor some counter programming, here is an obituary written by someone more pro Kissinger: https://www.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissingers-century-01a1a932 https://www.wsj.com/articles/henry-kissingers-century-01a1a9... It was written by a man who already wrote the book: "Kissinger, 1923-1968: The Idealist."
- aniforprez 3y agoI'm sorry but not every person needs "counter programming". Kissinger was a war criminal and we don't need a "balanced take" of a monster
- animal_spirits 3y agoNuanced and unbiased conversation is much needed in this world, and having multiple viewpoints from people with different biases helps us all.
- standardUser 3y agoRhetoric can be used to craft any message, no matter how absurd. Eloquent defenses exist for all of the most heinous actions by men. We have to assess the viewpoint before we grant it legitimacy, not absorb it simply because it exists.
- AYBABTME 3y ago"We have to decide if we're going to have our prior beliefs and preferences reinforced before we grant it access to our ears and eyes."
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- standardUser 3y ago"The logical fallacy you're committing is called the Straw Man Fallacy. This fallacy occurs when someone misrepresents or distorts an opponent's argument or position, creating a weaker or exaggerated version of it."
- ilkke 3y agoA villain that he was, even he called out the Rambouillet text [1] [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambouillet_Agreement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambouillet_Agreement
- genman 3y agoI have read critique that the terms presented to Serbs were unreasonable. Maybe, maybe not, but let's keep in mind that Serbs had already committed genocide and kept aiming for it.
- ilkke 3y agoI suggest reading up on the subject now that enough time had passed that information is more readily available. The KLA was designated as a terrorist organisation by (among others) Amnesty International and the FBI itself removed it from its terrorist list only months before the bombing started. But even past that point, Rambouillet was not in good faith by any way you look at it, it was designed to be unacceptable and justify a military operation that did nothing to help the people out claimed to protect.