4 ms·

First of all, congratulations to him! Amazing success for 4 months work. However, the issue with this is, there is no incentive for the cleaners to stay with t

First of all, congratulations to him! Amazing success for 4 months work. However, the issue with this is, there is no incentive for the cleaners to stay with the company. My ex was with a company very similar to this one, she signed up, but after she knew the clients for a while, she realised she could cut out the middleman and increase her wages substantially. The company tried to hit her with a 900$ bill for lost profit, their reasoning was "how can we stay in business if our workers keep running of with the clients?" (what does that say about the business model?). She convinced her favourite clients to ditch the company, which allowed her to bring in more money and the clients had a cheaper rate. Further clients were found by word of mouth at that point. I think throwing up some ads in the local paper would be cheaper in the long run than lost money from going with a company like this.

guynamedloren 15y ago
Hmmm... that's an interesting (and scary) point. I wonder if it would make sense, from the business owner's perspective, to shuffle the employees around between clients to decrease the chances of this?
- turkeyman 15y ago
  That seems like it would just delay the inevitable, he needs to find competent cleaners that are unwilling to strike out on their own. If he manages to keep the cleaners as contractors, then his future will be absolutedomestics.com.au. They have done incredibly well for themselves and have set themselves up exactly as this guy has. I'm thinking it must be more profitable making a decent profit while losing clients and cleaners, than taking a smaller profit and retaining clients and cleaners.
  - guynamedloren 15y ago
    > I'm thinking it must be more profitable making a decent profit while losing clients and cleaners, than taking a smaller profit and retaining clients and cleaners. Can you explain the difference in profits? Why would there be smaller profits in retaining clients and cleaners? I'm missing something here...
    - turkeyman 15y ago
      Based on the situation my ex went through, to retain the clients and cleaners they would have to take a smaller cut from the hourly wage they charge the clients. I'm not sure if it applies in his case, it depends on what percentage he is taking. Reading back on my previous post, it doesn't make much sense haha. Edit: I'm mainly talking about my experience with absolute domestics. They took something ridiculous like $5 an hour which is why they had these issues.
  - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
    >competent cleaners that are unwilling to strike out on their own // Or get his subcontractors (ie the cleaners themselves) to accept a non-compete, possibly with a specific figure attached should they jump ship.
    - mdda 15y ago
      Or get the people who need their places cleaned to include a non-circumvention clause as part of their initial signing up.
    - obtu 15y ago
      Those aren't necessarily legal (and might be ill-received in a region that doesn't want more unemployment); on the other hand, making use of the whole rolodex after leaving might be regulated as well.
    - wizzard 15y ago
      I don't sign non-competes as a developer, much less would I expect those in the service industry to sign one. That would be taking away their livelihood. Both of these suggestions sound like a form of slavery. Employees are free to come and go as they choose. What they should not be able to do is poach specific clients. It happens all the time, though, and what exactly is to be gained from suing someone making $15/hour?
      - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
        >What they should not be able to do is poach specific clients. // I find your indignation interesting as this is exactly what the non-compete would be preventing - the subcontractor from working directly for the client that you (the main contractor) introduced them to.
        wizzard 15y ago
        I was thinking more about the main thrust of non-competes I've come across, which is that you're not allowed to compete in the same industry. I read an article a couple of years ago about hairstylists and other service industry workers being out of a job for 12 months because they'd been forced to sign non-competes. Not poaching clients is a common clause though, apparently. I haven't really run across that clause because I don't have to power to solicit clients for my employers anyway.
  - obtu 15y ago
    The higher-profit-per-employee option might be more vulnerable to competition, by self-employed cleaners or by someone with a similar business model.

guynamedloren 15y ago

Hmmm... that's an interesting (and scary) point. I wonder if it would make sense, from the business owner's perspective, to shuffle the employees around between clients to decrease the chances of this?

turkeyman 15y ago
That seems like it would just delay the inevitable, he needs to find competent cleaners that are unwilling to strike out on their own. If he manages to keep the cleaners as contractors, then his future will be absolutedomestics.com.au. They have done incredibly well for themselves and have set themselves up exactly as this guy has. I'm thinking it must be more profitable making a decent profit while losing clients and cleaners, than taking a smaller profit and retaining clients and cleaners.
- guynamedloren 15y ago
  > I'm thinking it must be more profitable making a decent profit while losing clients and cleaners, than taking a smaller profit and retaining clients and cleaners. Can you explain the difference in profits? Why would there be smaller profits in retaining clients and cleaners? I'm missing something here...
  - turkeyman 15y ago
    Based on the situation my ex went through, to retain the clients and cleaners they would have to take a smaller cut from the hourly wage they charge the clients. I'm not sure if it applies in his case, it depends on what percentage he is taking. Reading back on my previous post, it doesn't make much sense haha. Edit: I'm mainly talking about my experience with absolute domestics. They took something ridiculous like $5 an hour which is why they had these issues.
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  >competent cleaners that are unwilling to strike out on their own // Or get his subcontractors (ie the cleaners themselves) to accept a non-compete, possibly with a specific figure attached should they jump ship.
  - mdda 15y ago
    Or get the people who need their places cleaned to include a non-circumvention clause as part of their initial signing up.
  - obtu 15y ago
    Those aren't necessarily legal (and might be ill-received in a region that doesn't want more unemployment); on the other hand, making use of the whole rolodex after leaving might be regulated as well.
  - wizzard 15y ago
    I don't sign non-competes as a developer, much less would I expect those in the service industry to sign one. That would be taking away their livelihood. Both of these suggestions sound like a form of slavery. Employees are free to come and go as they choose. What they should not be able to do is poach specific clients. It happens all the time, though, and what exactly is to be gained from suing someone making $15/hour?
    - pbhjpbhj 15y ago
      >What they should not be able to do is poach specific clients. // I find your indignation interesting as this is exactly what the non-compete would be preventing - the subcontractor from working directly for the client that you (the main contractor) introduced them to.
      - wizzard 15y ago
        I was thinking more about the main thrust of non-competes I've come across, which is that you're not allowed to compete in the same industry. I read an article a couple of years ago about hairstylists and other service industry workers being out of a job for 12 months because they'd been forced to sign non-competes. Not poaching clients is a common clause though, apparently. I haven't really run across that clause because I don't have to power to solicit clients for my employers anyway.
- obtu 15y ago
  The higher-profit-per-employee option might be more vulnerable to competition, by self-employed cleaners or by someone with a similar business model.