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Lexus is toyota. Accura is honda. So it’s really like: 1. Toyota 2. Mini 3. Honda 4. Subaru 5. Mazda Congratulations Japan.

smlacy 3y ago
Isn't Mini BMW?
- neogodless 3y ago
  Yes. But still, 4/5 of the most reliable brands (including their luxury division) are Japanese. BMW/Mini is up there, though!
  - tim333 3y ago
    It's nice and slightly surprising to see something somewhat made in Britain up there in reliability. I know BMW own it but a lot are still made outside Oxford.
- oofta-boofta 3y ago
  [dead]
- tirant 3y ago
  Yes, but mini cars only cover the lower and cheapest segment of the market, that is the UKL platform that BMW only uses for the X1, X2, 1 series and 2 series GC. So probably the highest complexity of the more premium platforms and features is bringing the reliability down for BMW, unsurprisingly (a v8 engine probably would fail earlier than a simple 3-cylinder engine)
bad_alloc 3y ago
Mini is BMW
kspacewalk2 3y ago
It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.
- bena 3y ago
  I think it's just commitment to the process at this point. The hard bit isn't the process per se, it's executing the process when it would otherwise be easier not to.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I assume it’s because the other nations’ automakers would rather compete along other lines. The Japanese already locked onto reliability/quality, so rather than try to fight them on something they are already good at, they try to optimize for style/status/performance/patriotism/etc.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Maybe they are too stubborn to succumb to 'the race to the bottom' cost (and correspondingly quality) wise, since these things do bite back after longer time than current year exec bonuses materialize. Or maybe they have different approach to beta testing, see say Zelda come out basically flawless and how say Betshesda or many others can deliver their stuff (beta testing months after release with fixes have 1000+ rather basic items).
- ajross 3y ago
  To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs. Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".
  - kspacewalk2 3y ago
535188B17C93743 3y ago
Isn't Subaru also Toyota?
- buildsjets 3y ago
  Subaru is a subsidiary of Fujitsi Heavy Industries.
- mkii 3y ago
  No, but they do have some collabs together
- kipchak 3y ago
  They have partnerships like on the FRS/BRZ and Toyota owns I think a 20% stake but separate companies.
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- neogodless 3y ago
  No. They certainly have partnerships on specific models (Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S / Toyota 86, Subaru Solterra EV / Toyota bZ4X), but they are not exclusive, and each have their own platforms and powertrains for most of their models. Toyota has partnered with Mazda as well - for example, there was Mazda 2 rebadged as a Toyota Yaris for a few years.
404mm 3y ago
I’d love to see a comparison / breakdown of models made in Japan vs made in USA/Mexico/Canada (for the NA market). Some of the most common Lexus models are not made in Japan
hawski 3y ago
I wonder if Renault is on the same level as Nissan. I understand they share a lot, but are not present on the American market.
- is_true 3y ago
  Just one data point, someone I know sells cars and told me that the old Renault duster was based on a Nissan car but the new model is based on a Dacia car and it sucks.
  - LMY 3y ago
    In Europe it has always been known as Dacia Duster. Dacia in Europe is the "low cost brand" of Renault and to keep cost low they reuse components and parts already developed for previous Nissan and Renault models. Other manufacturers do the same or share components, for example the 1500cc Renault diesel engine used in the previous generation of Dacia Duster was also the same used in the Mercedes Class A.
toastercat 3y ago
Been driving the same car for almost 17 years now (2005 Honda Civic LX) and still going strong. Fine piece of engineering. Thanks Honda! My family has sworn by Japanese cars since I was a kid, with most of us buying exclusively Honda or Toyota (incl their luxury lines, Acura/Lexus).
- tzs 3y ago
  As a person who is both tall and fat, I've been astounded by Japanese cars. By "tall" I don't mean basketball player tall. I just mean around maybe 85 or 90th percentile tall for US men, about 6'1" (73 inches or 185 cm). When my Nissan Sentra got totaled by a drunk driver I looked at all the similar cars from both American and Japanese companies. The first thing I noticed was that the Japanese cars were comfortable--I had plenty of leg room, by head didn't hit the roof, the seats weren't too narrow, and the steering wheel wasn't too close. The American cars were all more cramped. And I don't mean cramped just in ways that I could fix if I would have just got my act together and lost weight. No, they were also cramped because I was too tall for them. I even took a look at American mid-sized cars and they too were apparently not meant for people over 6 ft. It was kind of funny. The Japanese are a relatively small people. I'd be around 97th percentile on height there. So how come they are so much better at making cars that accommodate tall people? Anyway, I ended up with a Honda Civic. 11 years later it developed a problem that my local dealer (Seattle Honda) just could not reproduce or diagnose from my description and it was again time for a new car. (From later discussion on a car forum on the net, it seems like the problem was a bad ECU). That was around when SUVs were getting really popular, and I decided to have a look. Again, Japan for the win. Even though the American SUVs I looked at were overall much bigger cars than the Honda CR-V, only the CR-V had the head and leg room I needed. I ended up with a CR-V. That worked so well that when that lease was up I leased another, and then another when that lease was up. Then I remembered that I had only leased that first one so that if I didn't like the form factor it would be easy to switch back to a sedan, and so when that third lease was up bought a new 2006 CR-V and still drive that now.
me_smith 3y ago
I’ve been driving my Toyota Tacoma for 22 years now and currently at 245k miles (with some off-roading thrown in there). With regular upkeep, it’s amazing how much abuse these can take and still run fine. I haven’t had any major problems. My next car will definitely be a Toyota.
- black6 3y ago
  I'll be disappointed if I don't get half-a-million miles out of my '01 Tacoma. The major-est piece of equipment I've had to replace was the power steering pump, and the biggest PITA was the timing belt, which didn't need to be replaced at the time, but I did it for preventative maintenance. 326k miles.
- buildsjets 3y ago
  Anecdotally, my wife has owned her Toyota Celica since new in 2002. In that time, other than oil changes / tires / brake pads, the only thing that has failed is an air conditioning relay, twice. The second time around there was a new improved replacement part number, which has worked fine for 10 years now. I also have an Audi A4 and S4. Something is always breaking on them, but they are very enjoyable to drive compared to the Celica. It has such terrible torque steer that we avoid driving it in any kind of rain. With an open diff, it's essentially a one wheel drive vehicle on any kind of low traction surface. Specifically, the front left wheel.
jacquesm 3y ago
Mini = BMW. Subaru: depending on which model can have a lot of Toyota parts.
- allengeorge 3y ago
  I do not think that Subaru models outside of the BRZ or Solterra have Toyota parts.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    There is also the Crosstrek and there are talks to intensify the collaboration even further. The obvious difference in size is possibly going to cause some problems, and Daihatsu, another one of those collaborations is a guide to how that could play out. Subaru has a ton of engine and 4WD knowledge that would benefit Toyota, the other way around, Toyota has economies of scale and hybrid knowledge that Subaru will likely never have so both come out ahead of a partnership like this and the signs are that they are drawing closer to each other. Toyota has steadily expanded their stake in Subaru which today stands at 20%, and Subaru is now officially a part of the Toyota group. https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyo...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bluedino 3y ago
Mini's used to be terrible. What did they change? https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/29/consumer-reports-worst-cars/3304413/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/29/consume...
discobean 3y ago
Mini only has small problems :)
elsonrodriguez 3y ago
It's absolutely incredible how Subaru can be so high on this list with their choice of engine style and transmission. With that sort of handicap it's either a testament to how great Subaru is or how terrible every other automaker is.
- e-_pusher 3y ago
  What do you mean by this? What is wrong with the engine and transmission choice of Subaru that makes it a handicap?
  - elsonrodriguez 3y ago
    Horizontally opposed engines are inherently less reliable due to the increase in components, an H-4 has two heads and all that entails, an I-4 has one. CVTs are inherently more fragile than a geared transmission, they simply cannot hold as much torque. Almost all Subarus sold in the last 3 years have these engines and transmissions and they still hang.

smlacy 3y ago

Isn't Mini BMW?

neogodless 3y ago
Yes. But still, 4/5 of the most reliable brands (including their luxury division) are Japanese. BMW/Mini is up there, though!
- tim333 3y ago
  It's nice and slightly surprising to see something somewhat made in Britain up there in reliability. I know BMW own it but a lot are still made outside Oxford.
oofta-boofta 3y ago
[dead]
tirant 3y ago
Yes, but mini cars only cover the lower and cheapest segment of the market, that is the UKL platform that BMW only uses for the X1, X2, 1 series and 2 series GC. So probably the highest complexity of the more premium platforms and features is bringing the reliability down for BMW, unsurprisingly (a v8 engine probably would fail earlier than a simple 3-cylinder engine)

bad_alloc 3y ago

Mini is BMW

kspacewalk2 3y ago

It's incredible how the Japanese carmakers were able to perfect the auto manufacturing process and then proceed to hold that advantage for what, 30+ years now? It's not a secret how they did it, it's been studied to death, every manner of technology/expertise/management transfer has been tried, and still no one comes quite close enough to threaten their position.

bena 3y ago
I think it's just commitment to the process at this point. The hard bit isn't the process per se, it's executing the process when it would otherwise be easier not to.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
I assume it’s because the other nations’ automakers would rather compete along other lines. The Japanese already locked onto reliability/quality, so rather than try to fight them on something they are already good at, they try to optimize for style/status/performance/patriotism/etc.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Maybe they are too stubborn to succumb to 'the race to the bottom' cost (and correspondingly quality) wise, since these things do bite back after longer time than current year exec bonuses materialize. Or maybe they have different approach to beta testing, see say Zelda come out basically flawless and how say Betshesda or many others can deliver their stuff (beta testing months after release with fixes have 1000+ rather basic items).
ajross 3y ago
To be fair, exactly that level of investment in process and conservatism around change is arguably what led them all (literally every single Japanese manufacturer) to miss the boat on EVs. Basically, getting to your last sentence: you have the wrong threat model. Making "cars better" is great if what a "car" is doesn't change. But what the market wants is "better cars".
- kspacewalk2 3y ago

535188B17C93743 3y ago

Isn't Subaru also Toyota?

buildsjets 3y ago
Subaru is a subsidiary of Fujitsi Heavy Industries.
mkii 3y ago
No, but they do have some collabs together
kipchak 3y ago
They have partnerships like on the FRS/BRZ and Toyota owns I think a 20% stake but separate companies.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
neogodless 3y ago
No. They certainly have partnerships on specific models (Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S / Toyota 86, Subaru Solterra EV / Toyota bZ4X), but they are not exclusive, and each have their own platforms and powertrains for most of their models. Toyota has partnered with Mazda as well - for example, there was Mazda 2 rebadged as a Toyota Yaris for a few years.

404mm 3y ago

I’d love to see a comparison / breakdown of models made in Japan vs made in USA/Mexico/Canada (for the NA market). Some of the most common Lexus models are not made in Japan

hawski 3y ago

I wonder if Renault is on the same level as Nissan. I understand they share a lot, but are not present on the American market.

is_true 3y ago
Just one data point, someone I know sells cars and told me that the old Renault duster was based on a Nissan car but the new model is based on a Dacia car and it sucks.
- LMY 3y ago
  In Europe it has always been known as Dacia Duster. Dacia in Europe is the "low cost brand" of Renault and to keep cost low they reuse components and parts already developed for previous Nissan and Renault models. Other manufacturers do the same or share components, for example the 1500cc Renault diesel engine used in the previous generation of Dacia Duster was also the same used in the Mercedes Class A.

toastercat 3y ago

Been driving the same car for almost 17 years now (2005 Honda Civic LX) and still going strong. Fine piece of engineering. Thanks Honda! My family has sworn by Japanese cars since I was a kid, with most of us buying exclusively Honda or Toyota (incl their luxury lines, Acura/Lexus).

tzs 3y ago
As a person who is both tall and fat, I've been astounded by Japanese cars. By "tall" I don't mean basketball player tall. I just mean around maybe 85 or 90th percentile tall for US men, about 6'1" (73 inches or 185 cm). When my Nissan Sentra got totaled by a drunk driver I looked at all the similar cars from both American and Japanese companies. The first thing I noticed was that the Japanese cars were comfortable--I had plenty of leg room, by head didn't hit the roof, the seats weren't too narrow, and the steering wheel wasn't too close. The American cars were all more cramped. And I don't mean cramped just in ways that I could fix if I would have just got my act together and lost weight. No, they were also cramped because I was too tall for them. I even took a look at American mid-sized cars and they too were apparently not meant for people over 6 ft. It was kind of funny. The Japanese are a relatively small people. I'd be around 97th percentile on height there. So how come they are so much better at making cars that accommodate tall people? Anyway, I ended up with a Honda Civic. 11 years later it developed a problem that my local dealer (Seattle Honda) just could not reproduce or diagnose from my description and it was again time for a new car. (From later discussion on a car forum on the net, it seems like the problem was a bad ECU). That was around when SUVs were getting really popular, and I decided to have a look. Again, Japan for the win. Even though the American SUVs I looked at were overall much bigger cars than the Honda CR-V, only the CR-V had the head and leg room I needed. I ended up with a CR-V. That worked so well that when that lease was up I leased another, and then another when that lease was up. Then I remembered that I had only leased that first one so that if I didn't like the form factor it would be easy to switch back to a sedan, and so when that third lease was up bought a new 2006 CR-V and still drive that now.

me_smith 3y ago

I’ve been driving my Toyota Tacoma for 22 years now and currently at 245k miles (with some off-roading thrown in there). With regular upkeep, it’s amazing how much abuse these can take and still run fine. I haven’t had any major problems. My next car will definitely be a Toyota.

black6 3y ago
I'll be disappointed if I don't get half-a-million miles out of my '01 Tacoma. The major-est piece of equipment I've had to replace was the power steering pump, and the biggest PITA was the timing belt, which didn't need to be replaced at the time, but I did it for preventative maintenance. 326k miles.
buildsjets 3y ago
Anecdotally, my wife has owned her Toyota Celica since new in 2002. In that time, other than oil changes / tires / brake pads, the only thing that has failed is an air conditioning relay, twice. The second time around there was a new improved replacement part number, which has worked fine for 10 years now. I also have an Audi A4 and S4. Something is always breaking on them, but they are very enjoyable to drive compared to the Celica. It has such terrible torque steer that we avoid driving it in any kind of rain. With an open diff, it's essentially a one wheel drive vehicle on any kind of low traction surface. Specifically, the front left wheel.

jacquesm 3y ago

Mini = BMW. Subaru: depending on which model can have a lot of Toyota parts.

allengeorge 3y ago
I do not think that Subaru models outside of the BRZ or Solterra have Toyota parts.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  There is also the Crosstrek and there are talks to intensify the collaboration even further. The obvious difference in size is possibly going to cause some problems, and Daihatsu, another one of those collaborations is a guide to how that could play out. Subaru has a ton of engine and 4WD knowledge that would benefit Toyota, the other way around, Toyota has economies of scale and hybrid knowledge that Subaru will likely never have so both come out ahead of a partnership like this and the signs are that they are drawing closer to each other. Toyota has steadily expanded their stake in Subaru which today stands at 20%, and Subaru is now officially a part of the Toyota group. https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyota-group-what-it-means-new-outback-and-forester-models https://www.torquenews.com/1084/subaru-officially-joins-toyo...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bluedino 3y ago

Mini's used to be terrible. What did they change? https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/29/consumer-reports-worst-cars/3304413/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/10/29/consume...

discobean 3y ago

Mini only has small problems :)

elsonrodriguez 3y ago

It's absolutely incredible how Subaru can be so high on this list with their choice of engine style and transmission. With that sort of handicap it's either a testament to how great Subaru is or how terrible every other automaker is.

e-_pusher 3y ago
What do you mean by this? What is wrong with the engine and transmission choice of Subaru that makes it a handicap?
- elsonrodriguez 3y ago
  Horizontally opposed engines are inherently less reliable due to the increase in components, an H-4 has two heads and all that entails, an I-4 has one. CVTs are inherently more fragile than a geared transmission, they simply cannot hold as much torque. Almost all Subarus sold in the last 3 years have these engines and transmissions and they still hang.