4 ms·

As a machine learning engineer who dabbles with Blender and hobby gamedev, this is pretty impressive, but not quite to the point of being useful in any practica

As a machine learning engineer who dabbles with Blender and hobby gamedev, this is pretty impressive, but not quite to the point of being useful in any practical manner (as far as the limited furniture examples are concerned. A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes, and you still need to seed the generation with polys. I imagine the next step will be to have the seed generation controlled by an LLM, and to start adding image models to the autoregressive parts of the architecture. Then we might see truly mobile game-ready assets!

th0ma5 3y ago
This is a very underrated comment... As with any tech demo, I'd they don't show it, it can't do it. It is very very easy to imagine a generalization of these things to other purposes, which, if it could do it, would be a different presentation.
- rawrawrawrr 3y ago
  It's research, not meant for commercialization. The main point is in the process, not necessarily the output.
  - th0ma5 3y ago
    What? If the research doesn't show it, it can't do it, is my point, or else they would've put it in their research.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes. I don't think this general complaint about AI workflows is that useful. Most people are not a competent <insert job here>. Most people don't know a competent <insert job here> or can't afford to hire one. Even something that takes longer than a professional do at worse quality for many things is better than _nothing_ which is the realistic alternative for most people who would use something like this.
- cannonpalms 3y ago
  Is the target market really "most people," though? I would say not. The general goal of all of this economic investment is to improve the productivity of labor--that means first and foremost that things need to be useful and practical for those trained to make determinations such as "useful" and "practical."
  - taneq 3y ago
    Millions of people generating millions of images (some of them even useful!) using Dall-E and Stable Diffusion would say otherwise. A skilled digital artist could create most of these images in an hour or two, I’d guess… but ‘most people’ certainly could not, and it turns out that these people really want to.
    - reubenmorais 3y ago
      Are those millions of people actually creating something of lasting value, or just playing around with a new toy?
      - Filligree 3y ago
        Is there a problem with the latter?
        airtonix 3y ago
        [dead]
      - willy_k 3y ago
        A lot, but how many people will start with the latter but find themselves (capable of) doing the former?
      - taneq 3y ago
        They're creating lasting value for themselves. Or don't you think they should be allowed to?
Kaijo 3y ago
The mesh topology here would see these rejected as assets for in basically any professional context. A competent modeler could make much higher quality models, more suited to texturing and deformation, in under five minutes. A speed modeler could make the same in under a minute. And a procedural system in something like Blender geonodes can already spit out an endless variety of such models. But the pace of progress is staggering.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  I see it as a black triangle[0] more than anything else. Sounds like a really good first step that will scale to stuff that would take even a good modeler days to produce. That's where the real value will start to be seen. [0]: https://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745 https://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745
GaggiX 3y ago
A simple next step would be to simply scale the model, make it bigger, and train it on millions of images in the wild.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hipadev23 3y ago
> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes Sweet. Can you point me to these modelers who work on-demand and bill for their time in 5 minute increments? I’d love to be able to just pay $1-2 per model and get custom <whatever> dropped into my game when I need it.
- dvngnt_ 3y ago
  they said competent though no cheap
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    but the AI will be cheap. $1 per model would be the OpenAI wrapper’s price. Let alone the wholesale price.
  - bufferoverflow 3y ago
    There's no competent modeler that can produce 12 models per hour for 8 hours a day, let alone 24/7. Sure, you can probably demo your skills on one such model, but to do it consistently non-stop is a fantasy.
Art9681 3y ago
Just like a competent developer can use LLMs to bootstrap workflows, a competent model will soon have tools like this as part of their normal workflow. A casual user would be able to do things that they otherwise wouldnt have been able to. But an expert in the ML model's knowledge domain can really make it shine. I really believe that the more experienced you are in a particular use case, the more use you can get out of an ML model. Unfortunately, it's those very same people that seem to be the most resistant to adopting this without really giving it the practice required to get somewhere useful with it. I suppose part of the problem is we expect it to be a magic wand. But it's really just the new PhotoShop, or Blender, or Microsoft Word, or PowerPoint ... Most people open those apps, click mindleslly for a bit, promptly leave never to return. And so it is with "AI".
- eropple 3y ago
  I think eventually it may settle into what you describe. I don't think it's guaranteed, and I fear that there will be a pretty huge amount of damage done before that by the hype freaks whose real interest isn't in making artists more productive, but in rendering them (and other members of the actually-can-do-a-thing creative class) unemployed. The pipeline problem also exists: if you need to still have the skillsets you build up through learning the craft, you still need to have avenues to learn the craft--and the people who already have will get old eventually. There's a golden path towards a better future for everybody out of this, but a lot of swamps to drive into instead without careful forethought.
WhitneyLand 3y ago
As I understand it their claim is more about efficiency and quality. Being able to model something - is way different from being able to do it in the least amount of triangles and/or without losing details.
- stuckinhell 3y ago
  Until you create an AI to do those other parts too. (There is an AI being tested right now that tries to do that in the game dev community)
esperent 3y ago
> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes It's not about competent modellers, any more than SD is for expert artists. It's about giving tools to the non-experts. And also about freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futuristic models that aren't in the training set and require real imagination combined with their expertise.
- adventured 3y ago
  Like most of the generative AI space, it'll eliminate something like the bottom half of modelers, and turn them into lower paid prompt wizards. The top half will become combo modelers / prompt wizards, using both skillsets as needed. Prompt wizard hands work off to the finisher/detailer. It'll boost productivity and lead to higher quality finished content. And you'll be able to spot when a production - whether video game or movie - lacks a finisher (relying just on generation by prompt). The objects won't have that higher tier level of realism or originality.
- boppo1 3y ago
  >freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futuristic models that aren't in the training set and require real imagination combined with their expertise. Or flipping burgers at McDonald's! There are only so many games that the market can support, and in those, only so many unique characters[0] that are required. We're pretty much at saturation already. [0]Not to mention that if AI can generate chairs, from what we have seen from Dall-E & SDXL, it can generatte characters too. Less great than human generated ones? Sure, but it's clear that big boys like Bethesda and Activision do not care.
eurekin 3y ago
I can imagine one usecase, in a typical architecture design, where the architect creates a design and always faces this stumbling block, when wanting to make it look as lively as possible: sprinkling a lot of convincing assets everywhere. As they are generated, variations are much easier to come by easier, than buying a couple asset packs.

th0ma5 3y ago

This is a very underrated comment... As with any tech demo, I'd they don't show it, it can't do it. It is very very easy to imagine a generalization of these things to other purposes, which, if it could do it, would be a different presentation.

rawrawrawrr 3y ago
It's research, not meant for commercialization. The main point is in the process, not necessarily the output.
- th0ma5 3y ago
  What? If the research doesn't show it, it can't do it, is my point, or else they would've put it in their research.

empath-nirvana 3y ago

> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes. I don't think this general complaint about AI workflows is that useful. Most people are not a competent <insert job here>. Most people don't know a competent <insert job here> or can't afford to hire one. Even something that takes longer than a professional do at worse quality for many things is better than _nothing_ which is the realistic alternative for most people who would use something like this.

cannonpalms 3y ago
Is the target market really "most people," though? I would say not. The general goal of all of this economic investment is to improve the productivity of labor--that means first and foremost that things need to be useful and practical for those trained to make determinations such as "useful" and "practical."
- taneq 3y ago
  Millions of people generating millions of images (some of them even useful!) using Dall-E and Stable Diffusion would say otherwise. A skilled digital artist could create most of these images in an hour or two, I’d guess… but ‘most people’ certainly could not, and it turns out that these people really want to.
  - reubenmorais 3y ago
    Are those millions of people actually creating something of lasting value, or just playing around with a new toy?
    - Filligree 3y ago
      Is there a problem with the latter?
      - airtonix 3y ago
        [dead]
    - willy_k 3y ago
      A lot, but how many people will start with the latter but find themselves (capable of) doing the former?
    - taneq 3y ago
      They're creating lasting value for themselves. Or don't you think they should be allowed to?

Kaijo 3y ago

The mesh topology here would see these rejected as assets for in basically any professional context. A competent modeler could make much higher quality models, more suited to texturing and deformation, in under five minutes. A speed modeler could make the same in under a minute. And a procedural system in something like Blender geonodes can already spit out an endless variety of such models. But the pace of progress is staggering.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
I see it as a black triangle[0] more than anything else. Sounds like a really good first step that will scale to stuff that would take even a good modeler days to produce. That's where the real value will start to be seen. [0]: https://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745 https://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=7745

GaggiX 3y ago

A simple next step would be to simply scale the model, make it bigger, and train it on millions of images in the wild.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hipadev23 3y ago

> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes Sweet. Can you point me to these modelers who work on-demand and bill for their time in 5 minute increments? I’d love to be able to just pay $1-2 per model and get custom <whatever> dropped into my game when I need it.

dvngnt_ 3y ago
they said competent though no cheap
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  but the AI will be cheap. $1 per model would be the OpenAI wrapper’s price. Let alone the wholesale price.
- bufferoverflow 3y ago
  There's no competent modeler that can produce 12 models per hour for 8 hours a day, let alone 24/7. Sure, you can probably demo your skills on one such model, but to do it consistently non-stop is a fantasy.

Art9681 3y ago

Just like a competent developer can use LLMs to bootstrap workflows, a competent model will soon have tools like this as part of their normal workflow. A casual user would be able to do things that they otherwise wouldnt have been able to. But an expert in the ML model's knowledge domain can really make it shine. I really believe that the more experienced you are in a particular use case, the more use you can get out of an ML model. Unfortunately, it's those very same people that seem to be the most resistant to adopting this without really giving it the practice required to get somewhere useful with it. I suppose part of the problem is we expect it to be a magic wand. But it's really just the new PhotoShop, or Blender, or Microsoft Word, or PowerPoint ... Most people open those apps, click mindleslly for a bit, promptly leave never to return. And so it is with "AI".

eropple 3y ago
I think eventually it may settle into what you describe. I don't think it's guaranteed, and I fear that there will be a pretty huge amount of damage done before that by the hype freaks whose real interest isn't in making artists more productive, but in rendering them (and other members of the actually-can-do-a-thing creative class) unemployed. The pipeline problem also exists: if you need to still have the skillsets you build up through learning the craft, you still need to have avenues to learn the craft--and the people who already have will get old eventually. There's a golden path towards a better future for everybody out of this, but a lot of swamps to drive into instead without careful forethought.

WhitneyLand 3y ago

As I understand it their claim is more about efficiency and quality. Being able to model something - is way different from being able to do it in the least amount of triangles and/or without losing details.

stuckinhell 3y ago
Until you create an AI to do those other parts too. (There is an AI being tested right now that tries to do that in the game dev community)

esperent 3y ago

> A competent modeler can make these types of meshes in under 5 minutes It's not about competent modellers, any more than SD is for expert artists. It's about giving tools to the non-experts. And also about freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futuristic models that aren't in the training set and require real imagination combined with their expertise.

adventured 3y ago
Like most of the generative AI space, it'll eliminate something like the bottom half of modelers, and turn them into lower paid prompt wizards. The top half will become combo modelers / prompt wizards, using both skillsets as needed. Prompt wizard hands work off to the finisher/detailer. It'll boost productivity and lead to higher quality finished content. And you'll be able to spot when a production - whether video game or movie - lacks a finisher (relying just on generation by prompt). The objects won't have that higher tier level of realism or originality.
boppo1 3y ago
>freeing up those competent modellers to work on more interesting things than the 10,000 chair variants needed for future AAA games. They can work on making unique and interesting characters instead, or novel futuristic models that aren't in the training set and require real imagination combined with their expertise. Or flipping burgers at McDonald's! There are only so many games that the market can support, and in those, only so many unique characters[0] that are required. We're pretty much at saturation already. [0]Not to mention that if AI can generate chairs, from what we have seen from Dall-E & SDXL, it can generatte characters too. Less great than human generated ones? Sure, but it's clear that big boys like Bethesda and Activision do not care.

eurekin 3y ago

I can imagine one usecase, in a typical architecture design, where the architect creates a design and always faces this stumbling block, when wanting to make it look as lively as possible: sprinkling a lot of convincing assets everywhere. As they are generated, variations are much easier to come by easier, than buying a couple asset packs.