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Previous discussion was flagged - Self driving cannot work with the existing insurance and civil systems in place. By definition it can't be the driver that is

Previous discussion was flagged - Self driving cannot work with the existing insurance and civil systems in place. By definition it can't be the driver that is solely responsible if the vehicle has automated driving. You can argue the driver was negligent in not stopping in time, not paying enough attention, etc. However civil isn't a blame it all on 1 person situation. Blame is distributed, as are the costs. So perhaps the driver is 50% responsible while autopilot is 40% with the other driver at 10%. Especially with a name like "autopilot" the system is ripe for litigation. We would need new laws that specially protect automated driving if we wish to continue it. I imagine some cities and states may do it, but not others.

imtringued 3y ago
Musk can't even get "autopilot" to work in a closed system like his "Vegas Loop". Why would anyone expect it to work anywhere else?
- me_me_me 3y ago
  and that's just the beginning. Heavy rain, snow, fog. There are tons corner cases and yet they couldn't have something working in a continuous loop
x86x87 3y ago
Or here is a revolutionary idea: get the fuck off public roads with your beta poorly tested tech and come back wheb it's truly self driving and you accept full liability for whatever it does.
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  One issue: To get a "good enough" self driving system, it needs millions of miles of testing on public roads.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Waymo seems to be progressing much faster and at much lower risk to the public. Tesla's approach specifically is just hubris/greed with the commons footing the bill.
    - x86x87 3y ago
      It's almost like they actually are thinking about safety.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    So? Either accept liability and/or be way more conservative when making decisions or you don't belong on the PUBLIC roads. They are literally gambling with people's lives.
  - atoav 3y ago
    Seems like you are pointing out one obvious challenge to any company that wants to develope such technology. Maybe it is my european upbringing, but this is not my problem, but the problem of said company. I don't see why they should be allowed to test on public streets.
    - enslavedrobot 3y ago
      You should care because it will save the average western family ~$5k/year and reduce the 1.5million fatal accidents and >10million serious injuries that result from car crashes worldwide. Just the insurance savings alone could give up to $800 billion back to rate payers in the US.
      - freejazz 3y ago
        >You should care because it will save the average western family ~$5k/year and reduce the 1.5million fatal accidents and >10million serious injuries that result from car crashes worldwide. When? What's the social cost to affording these companies public spaces to test their products?
chpatrick 3y ago
If it's your car and you turn on the autopilot button why shouldn't you be responsible?
- atoav 3y ago
  Because you have been given the marketing material that it is safe. Now let's continue this thought. Which company, do you think will produce the safer vehicles: The one liable for the faults of it's technology or the one not liable? Now maybe the interesting question is why so many people shill (against their own interest) for the company known for the least responsible way of dealing with the matter.
- freejazz 3y ago
  Because you don't control what the autopilot system does. Tesla does, and as the manufacturer of the product, is the party in place to minimize the risks it creates. Most especially in this sort of context where they have prior warnings as to the product's failings, and neglect to provide warnings or to fix the problem.
  - chpatrick 3y ago
    Of course you have control, you can not turn it on and drive safely like everyone else. If someone sold you some kind of funky DIY autopilot system on ebay that turned the wheel for you and you decided to put it in your car and go in traffic, are you not responsible just because the seller assured you it's safe?
mminer237 3y ago
Most states already use a comparative negligence system exactly like you describe: https://usaccidentlawyer.com/blog/comparative-negligence-for-beginners/ https://usaccidentlawyer.com/blog/comparative-negligence-for...

imtringued 3y ago

Musk can't even get "autopilot" to work in a closed system like his "Vegas Loop". Why would anyone expect it to work anywhere else?

me_me_me 3y ago
and that's just the beginning. Heavy rain, snow, fog. There are tons corner cases and yet they couldn't have something working in a continuous loop

x86x87 3y ago

Or here is a revolutionary idea: get the fuck off public roads with your beta poorly tested tech and come back wheb it's truly self driving and you accept full liability for whatever it does.

RecycledEle 3y ago
One issue: To get a "good enough" self driving system, it needs millions of miles of testing on public roads.
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Waymo seems to be progressing much faster and at much lower risk to the public. Tesla's approach specifically is just hubris/greed with the commons footing the bill.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    It's almost like they actually are thinking about safety.
- x86x87 3y ago
  So? Either accept liability and/or be way more conservative when making decisions or you don't belong on the PUBLIC roads. They are literally gambling with people's lives.
- atoav 3y ago
  Seems like you are pointing out one obvious challenge to any company that wants to develope such technology. Maybe it is my european upbringing, but this is not my problem, but the problem of said company. I don't see why they should be allowed to test on public streets.
  - enslavedrobot 3y ago
    You should care because it will save the average western family ~$5k/year and reduce the 1.5million fatal accidents and >10million serious injuries that result from car crashes worldwide. Just the insurance savings alone could give up to $800 billion back to rate payers in the US.
    - freejazz 3y ago
      >You should care because it will save the average western family ~$5k/year and reduce the 1.5million fatal accidents and >10million serious injuries that result from car crashes worldwide. When? What's the social cost to affording these companies public spaces to test their products?

chpatrick 3y ago

If it's your car and you turn on the autopilot button why shouldn't you be responsible?

atoav 3y ago
Because you have been given the marketing material that it is safe. Now let's continue this thought. Which company, do you think will produce the safer vehicles: The one liable for the faults of it's technology or the one not liable? Now maybe the interesting question is why so many people shill (against their own interest) for the company known for the least responsible way of dealing with the matter.
freejazz 3y ago
Because you don't control what the autopilot system does. Tesla does, and as the manufacturer of the product, is the party in place to minimize the risks it creates. Most especially in this sort of context where they have prior warnings as to the product's failings, and neglect to provide warnings or to fix the problem.
- chpatrick 3y ago
  Of course you have control, you can not turn it on and drive safely like everyone else. If someone sold you some kind of funky DIY autopilot system on ebay that turned the wheel for you and you decided to put it in your car and go in traffic, are you not responsible just because the seller assured you it's safe?

mminer237 3y ago

Most states already use a comparative negligence system exactly like you describe: https://usaccidentlawyer.com/blog/comparative-negligence-for-beginners/ https://usaccidentlawyer.com/blog/comparative-negligence-for...