6 ms·

Elon Musk and Tesla ignored Autopilot's fatal flaws, judge says evidence shows

79 points by edvinbesic 3y ago

ChrisArchitect 3y ago
More earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38418282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38418282
- ra7 3y ago
  It's interesting the earlier post is flagged. This one sits in page 2 after receiving close to 30 votes in under an hour. Normally, this would be near the top of HN. Either the ranking algorithm works in even more mysterious ways or Tesla posts are flagged heavily.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Tesla posts are flagged heavily A lot of people, like a friend of mine, have put their entire life savings in tesla stock when was rocketing to the moon during covid, because they were bored of crypto and were worshiping Elon. They have the most to loose from this stuff, so my friend spends the morning bus ride to work arguing on Twitter and other social media with people why tesla is the best and any any evidence otherwise is fake news or tesla shorts trying to manipulate the stock. Poor guy. It could be that such an army exists on HN as well that abuses the flag button to protect the image of the company and their investment. Just a hypothesis. I'd be curious if dang has some analytics on this.
    - ra7 3y ago
      This isn't the first time I've seen this either. It's definitely a pattern: new post generates a lot of discussion in a short time, but then disappears from the front pages. I hope dang can analyze past posts to see if manipulation is happening.
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      There’s one for Matt Levine; is it securities fraud to manipulate coverage of stock you own by mass-flagging on an obscure website?
  - ChrisArchitect 3y ago
    30 votes is nothing. It'll be a blip. Not to mention having already been discussed / news from days ago. Nothing shady about it.
    - ra7 3y ago
      ~30 votes in the first hour definitely gets you to the front page. It's not nothing.
      - ChrisArchitect 3y ago
        Yeah, but not for a long time. And if there's flagging (for whatever reason), and ppl just not interested because it's a dupe/old, not going to last long. It'll get a bit of time, that's all.
devwastaken 3y ago
Previous discussion was flagged - Self driving cannot work with the existing insurance and civil systems in place. By definition it can't be the driver that is solely responsible if the vehicle has automated driving. You can argue the driver was negligent in not stopping in time, not paying enough attention, etc. However civil isn't a blame it all on 1 person situation. Blame is distributed, as are the costs. So perhaps the driver is 50% responsible while autopilot is 40% with the other driver at 10%. Especially with a name like "autopilot" the system is ripe for litigation. We would need new laws that specially protect automated driving if we wish to continue it. I imagine some cities and states may do it, but not others.
- imtringued 3y ago
  Musk can't even get "autopilot" to work in a closed system like his "Vegas Loop". Why would anyone expect it to work anywhere else?
  - me_me_me 3y ago
    and that's just the beginning. Heavy rain, snow, fog. There are tons corner cases and yet they couldn't have something working in a continuous loop
- x86x87 3y ago
  Or here is a revolutionary idea: get the fuck off public roads with your beta poorly tested tech and come back wheb it's truly self driving and you accept full liability for whatever it does.
  - RecycledEle 3y ago
    One issue: To get a "good enough" self driving system, it needs millions of miles of testing on public roads.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Waymo seems to be progressing much faster and at much lower risk to the public. Tesla's approach specifically is just hubris/greed with the commons footing the bill.
mirages 3y ago
"In Europe, side and rear underrun protection are mandated on all lorries and trailers with a gross weight of 3,500 kilograms (7,700 lb) or more" I wonder why it's still not a thing in the US
- landemva 3y ago
  In US, rear underrun has been required for longer than I knew about these things. Considering miles travelled and risk and limited funds, side underrun funds are better spent on other safety items.
juanani 3y ago
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79 points by edvinbesic 3y ago

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

More earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38418282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38418282

ra7 3y ago
It's interesting the earlier post is flagged. This one sits in page 2 after receiving close to 30 votes in under an hour. Normally, this would be near the top of HN. Either the ranking algorithm works in even more mysterious ways or Tesla posts are flagged heavily.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Tesla posts are flagged heavily A lot of people, like a friend of mine, have put their entire life savings in tesla stock when was rocketing to the moon during covid, because they were bored of crypto and were worshiping Elon. They have the most to loose from this stuff, so my friend spends the morning bus ride to work arguing on Twitter and other social media with people why tesla is the best and any any evidence otherwise is fake news or tesla shorts trying to manipulate the stock. Poor guy. It could be that such an army exists on HN as well that abuses the flag button to protect the image of the company and their investment. Just a hypothesis. I'd be curious if dang has some analytics on this.
  - ra7 3y ago
    This isn't the first time I've seen this either. It's definitely a pattern: new post generates a lot of discussion in a short time, but then disappears from the front pages. I hope dang can analyze past posts to see if manipulation is happening.
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    There’s one for Matt Levine; is it securities fraud to manipulate coverage of stock you own by mass-flagging on an obscure website?
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago
  30 votes is nothing. It'll be a blip. Not to mention having already been discussed / news from days ago. Nothing shady about it.
  - ra7 3y ago
    ~30 votes in the first hour definitely gets you to the front page. It's not nothing.
    - ChrisArchitect 3y ago
      Yeah, but not for a long time. And if there's flagging (for whatever reason), and ppl just not interested because it's a dupe/old, not going to last long. It'll get a bit of time, that's all.

devwastaken 3y ago

Previous discussion was flagged - Self driving cannot work with the existing insurance and civil systems in place. By definition it can't be the driver that is solely responsible if the vehicle has automated driving. You can argue the driver was negligent in not stopping in time, not paying enough attention, etc. However civil isn't a blame it all on 1 person situation. Blame is distributed, as are the costs. So perhaps the driver is 50% responsible while autopilot is 40% with the other driver at 10%. Especially with a name like "autopilot" the system is ripe for litigation. We would need new laws that specially protect automated driving if we wish to continue it. I imagine some cities and states may do it, but not others.

imtringued 3y ago
Musk can't even get "autopilot" to work in a closed system like his "Vegas Loop". Why would anyone expect it to work anywhere else?
- me_me_me 3y ago
  and that's just the beginning. Heavy rain, snow, fog. There are tons corner cases and yet they couldn't have something working in a continuous loop
x86x87 3y ago
Or here is a revolutionary idea: get the fuck off public roads with your beta poorly tested tech and come back wheb it's truly self driving and you accept full liability for whatever it does.
- RecycledEle 3y ago
  One issue: To get a "good enough" self driving system, it needs millions of miles of testing on public roads.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Waymo seems to be progressing much faster and at much lower risk to the public. Tesla's approach specifically is just hubris/greed with the commons footing the bill.

mirages 3y ago

"In Europe, side and rear underrun protection are mandated on all lorries and trailers with a gross weight of 3,500 kilograms (7,700 lb) or more" I wonder why it's still not a thing in the US

landemva 3y ago
In US, rear underrun has been required for longer than I knew about these things. Considering miles travelled and risk and limited funds, side underrun funds are better spent on other safety items.

juanani 3y ago

[dead]