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German Autobahn speed limit would bring €1bn in benefits
- mytailorisrich 3y agoThat might have been the case 30 years ago but now that vehicles are transitioning from ICE to EV the validity of claims that restricting cars and decreasing speed limits will improve air quality and decrease emissions is steadily dropping...
- Kelteseth 3y agoWe are currently at 4% electric cars in Germany, so no it still make sense to have a sane maximum speed limit. I actively hate driving from Lindau to Munich, because the road is full of (mostly swiss) €€€ sports cars driving like crazy, because it is the only road the can legally drive fast with their cars. Please give us the tempo limit!!
- justrealist 3y agoYes but people correctly understand that once a speed limit is imposed, it will never be revoked, even once Germany is 90% electric. That's the nature of regulation.
- Kelteseth 3y agoYeah, that would be great to have a speed limit indefinitely (no /s :))
- justrealist 3y agoThen why did you lie about it being related to EV penetrance?
- mytailorisrich 3y agoIt does not make sense to spend time and effort on small issues that are already solving themselves.
- passwordoops 3y agoEVs run on tires that don't shed particulates or other compounds that contribute to poor air quality?
- jojobas 3y agoAlso Germany stopped burning coal to make electricity. More news from the parallel universe at 5.
- Cockbrand 3y agoYes, they are emission free, didn’t you know that!? That’s what marketing says anyway :) I’d personally love it if this labelling would be illegal, and it had to say “lower local emissions” instead.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoLet's move the goalposts when caught...
- jojobas 3y agoThere's no movement, air resistance and therefore emissions from coal power plants are still proportional to speed squared.
- mytailorisrich 3y agoYes, so the disastrous German's energy policy can be greenwashed by imposing a speed limit in the autobahn... ;)
- V__ 3y agoEVs make up about 2% [1] of vehicles in Germany right now. It will take at least a decade until the claim isn't valid anymore. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1300500/electric-cars-share-in-germany/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1300500/electric-cars-sh...
- paganel 3y agoJust call it a new tax, painting this as "benefits" is highly disingenuous.
- picadores 3y agoAnd there is already a physical speed limit in many areas. If the autobahn has no speed limit, but the right most lane is a basically "truck only lane" at 80- 100 mph, and its only two lanes, all vehicles pool to that one lane, and on that one lane, the slowest sets the speed. Which is often lorries, slow vehicles etc. Thus even though you could drive the speed of sound in theory, in reality you can not, unless its very late at night. This is mostly a law that is pushed by carbon groups, to rile up car-centric society against crazy "green" politicians. Similar things can be seen with the refugee policies. Some Putin puppet pumps a refugeestream into the heart of europe, so that another putinpuppet can win elections. Thats how - if you have no good arguments, you win elections. By manipulating the narrative and forcing your oppossition into retarded splits between reality and principles.
- Kelteseth 3y ago> basically "truck only lane" at 80- 100 mph, and its only two lanes, all vehicles pool to that one lane, and on that one lane, the slowest sets the speed. But this does not happen in practice. Even with Rechtsfahrgebot (you must default to stay on the right lane) most people will drive none stop on the left lane. I see this so often that even the right lane becomes faster, because all driver think that they are driving none slow vehicles like trucks, so the can just drive permanently on the left. It is so silly. This came especially clear to me after a two-week holiday in the states, where they have no such thing.
- Cockbrand 3y agoHaha, in terms of intellectual and rational quality, the debate regarding a possible speed limit on the Autobahn is comparable to the 2nd amendment discussion in the US. It’s been going on for decades, there's really no good reason not to do it, and due to powerful lobbying, it’ll just never happen.
- pllbnk 3y agoI had an opportunity to drive on the German autobahn for the first time this year and quite a significant distance, close to 2,000 km in total. What I personally experienced is the road quality being sub-par for unlimited speeds, most cars driving close to 200 km/h that have no business doing that due to their technical capabilities (think 15 year old Volkswagen Passat), a lot of stress driving at night because sometimes you just cannot see anything approaching behind you and a few seconds later someone just passes by you. There are reasonable middle-ground solutions, such as limiting the speed to 150 km/h if 130 is considered too low for majority but unlimited speed is just crazy because people tend to overestimate their driving skills and cars' capabilities.
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoWhy would you want to take the fun out of the Autobahn?
- Kelteseth 3y agoBecause it is meant to be for save transportation not a track for speeding sports cars.
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoI wouldn't consider a BMW 3 Series or a Mercedes C Klass sport cars by any definition.
- seasox 3y agoI would.
- xapxap 3y agoWho is paying the people that write this nonsense? Cui bono
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoPeople with these ideas need to keep them to themselves. There is magic in going as fast as you can on the Autobahn - and the sensation when you see your car doing 250-260kmh... best. Reminds me of Volvo's plans of limiting their cars to 180kmh or less, because "nobody needs that speed anyway".
- Kelteseth 3y ago> the sensation when you see your car doing 250-260kmh... best. Then go to a racetrack. Jesus, a public road is not your private formel 1 track.
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoAs long as I'm not breaking any laws, why would I do that? Not to mention that usually there are more than two lanes available and the leftmost is for going as fast as you can on the portions with no speed limit.
- Kelteseth 3y agoAnd that is why we need a speed limit...
- farmdve 3y agoIt's legal, thus not illegal. And 250km/h is not even the fast cars, those zip by at 320 or more.
- AdamN 3y agoWhat car did you do that on? I drove a 2022 A6 Avant (base model) from Berlin to Sylt and rarely topped 200 before feeling not so confident safety-wise. Would a bigger engine have helped or do you just have to lean into the extra speed and really focus?
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoLast one was a BMW 320i automatic. After about 180 I feel the road gets a bit narrower, but then you kind of get used to the new field of vision and and can go as fast as you want - traffic permitting and not encountering any road works.
- louwrentius 3y agoMore than twenty years ago, I drove from The Netherlands to Munich in a Volvo v70 at 210 KM/h most of the trip. I could see the fuel gauge needle move as for every 5KM it used 1L of petrol. Driving this fast was awesome. You have to keep an eye on the horizon because you will be there in less than 10 seconds. But it was absolutely nuts. As I see it, from an environmental perspective, it's indefensible. I'll miss the lack of a speed limit, as driving fast is absolutely awesome, but I can't justify the tax of this 'perk' on society.
- farmdve 3y agoWow, another Volvo gas guzzler. My 170hp automatic S60 is 10l/100km by attempting to drive normally. As soon as I step on it though... Even then because it breaks a lot I've never reached speeds above 170km/h and also because I haven't taken it out to a highway.
- louwrentius 3y agoYes the famous 5-cylinder 2.5L 140hp volvo engine was always 1:10 which was quite uneconomical. Sorry to see your S60 be that thirsty and unreliable. I have a 2010+ S60 which is basically a face-lifted Ford and that one is a modern 180hp turbo that at least does 1:14-1:16 if you drive normally. But for me, as soon as I have the funds I'll swap it for electric.
- farmdve 3y agoIt's a 2.4, but hardly matters. It's actually a 170hp model, the 140hp was a software limitation that closes the throttle plate at upper RPM around 4500RPM and up. The modern S60(2010-2015) is a far cry from the sizes of the old models, it was made as small as the P1 era S40. The S80 P3 model is the size of the old S60 P2. Honestly I cannot say why the engine is so inefficient, maybe it was the weight + it being an automatic, who knows really.
- louwrentius 3y agoMy dad had several wagons/stations V70 850 740? The all did 1:10 and where manual. I think the large displacement, the 5 cylinders (is indeed heavyer) and low HP/L + naturally aspirated = inefficient. My S60 is from the Ford-era and is basically a Ford Mondeo with volvo interior and exterior. In some sense it's too bad, it's not a 'real' volvo, I always loved the 5-cylinder sound, but I'd rather do 1:14-16
- 4death4 3y ago1 billion seems very small. Let’s say 20M want to keep the status quo. They could each pay 50 euros to equal the billion euros.
- Aachen 3y agoWrong fight to pick... This is such a controversial issue in Germany (see other comments already here), for this marginal improvement in emissions... people will feel like they are already being impacted by government restrictions and refuse to do more, when switching to an electric vehicle (there's also lots of voices "you can pry my combustion engine from my cold dead hands") would halve the emissions today, let alone when the grid is properly renewable and not running on coal and gas with a whiff of wind. It seems like the wrong battle to fight to me. Also for myself: for most trips, I already drive 90~100 km/h on German highways, basically truck speed such that they don't have to overtake me and I'm not a nuisance, but very occasionally I want to save time and drive 120-140. We already buy green power from a provider that actively builds out renewable energy (still, we draw from the gray grid, but we do what we can), and sooner or later we'll be able to get charging infrastructure in a future home and get an electric vehicle. In such a scenario, why should I be impacted by others driving continuously fast in their combustion vehicles? If the goal is lower emissions, why isn't the solution allowing it only for emission-free vehicles? Every vehicle already has a green sticker to be let into low-emission zones, speed cameras can see them as well. For most people not to feel impacted, the limit would have to be around 140 km/h, but then there's no point: the article already says that 130 helps a lot less than 100 km/h (as in, 4 versus 1.5 Mt, on a total of 148 MtCO2e for the sector). They'll also never get 100 km/h to pass, so any middle ground (such as 120) will have two losing sides. Everyone is going to feel it's unfair, whether their reason is justified or not, and there are bigger 'favors' to ask of people such as home insulation, reducing beef/lamb consumption somewhat at least, installing a heat pump, using mass transit where available, etc.
- cracrecry 3y agoOh, yeah, and if you make walking mandatory instead you will bring much more "benefits". One of the things I love about Germany is the Autobahns. If there is no speed limit, most of the time there are physical limitations like vehicles that make people go at reasonable speeds. I believe going at 140Kph today in a highway is totally reasonable, but politicians want to make it illegal so they have more power over people and because they can fine-tax them billions. Fines are a huge business.
- RandomLensman 3y agoToo little benefit for the associated political fight required at present.
- gryzzly 3y ago70% of germans are in favour of it.
- RandomLensman 3y agoThat doesn't mean it matters from a political perspective. In democracies small but vocal and determined minorities matter a lot vs just people having opinions but no strong voting actions.
- Kelteseth 3y agoIn this thread: Germans that argue that a universal Autobahn speed limit is bad because driving 250km/h "is fun" and that's why we should not change it.
- batushka3 3y agoInstead of relaunching nuclear plants, Germans are tossed autobahn limit bone to fight over. The study is totaly made up for agenda.
- nunobrito 3y agoLet our autobahn be. That "study" does not even measure the costs of having more cars on the road for a longer time (congestion increases and increased accidents). France has a speed limit and yet the car crashes there are more frequent, same for levels of pollution since they use older cars. Go fix France first, please.
- unyttigfjelltol 3y agoIn the US the flow of traffic typically is 10mph to 20mph faster than the speed limit. These laws incur costs of making lawmakers look like clowns to ordinary people, arbitrary enforcement, and excessive interaction between citizens and police. I would favor variable open road tolling where someone doing "200km/hr" pays a higher, possibly premium rate.