7 ms·

Why Does My 'Efficient' Dishwasher Take a Zillion Minutes for a Load?

34 points by mcenedella 3y ago

Scoundreller 3y ago
While modern dishwashers take longer, they’re a heck of a lot quieter (especially if you get a Bosch). Interesting reading about the hacks in the article, I suggest everyone here reads it. Dunno where the longer to boil pasta part comes from in the article. What I learned is that the turbo/quick cycles use a lot more energy and water. I guess that’s what’s needed to get the same end-state of cleanliness.
- bradknowles 3y ago
  We have a Bosch now. I will never ever again buy another Bosch. I don't care how highly they get rated by Consumer Reports. The next dishwasher we buy must have a heated dry mode, and it won't be a Bosch. Can't tell you anything more than that at the moment.
- emmet 3y ago
  We had a top of the line Bosch in the "Luxury" apartment we rented last, and I can assure you this is not the case for all of their models. Couldn't run it overnight without keeping everyone awake for 4 hours.
- chakintosh 3y ago
  I got a Bosch recently, and there is no way to know if it's working unless I put my ears to the door.
  - arethuza 3y ago
    Our relatively new AEG shines a red light on the floor when it is operating (and a slowly flashing red light if the door is ajar) - turns out this is a better UI than a mobile app!
    - chakintosh 3y ago
      Speaking of AEG, they have some top notch lights and LED screens. Just got an Air purifier (AX9) yesterday and was impressed by the air quality indicator light and the touch screen seems to have high DPI as well.
      - arethuza 3y ago
        The last dishwasher we had was also an AEG - I made multiple repairs to it over the years but then the electricals gave out and I wasn't happy fiddling with that so we replaced it.
PeterStuer 3y ago
At least in the EU it has come to the point where you have to figure out how to 'boost' the appliances into a 'normal' cycle, as the default is just the 'eco' setting designed to pass the test's 'A+++' rating criterium under ideal circumstances. I am 100% in favour of not wasting energy and water, just not by deception and false savings where people use more water 'pre-rincing' their dishes in the sink than a regular dishwasher used to clean them, or having to manually add 2 extra soak and spin cycles to get rid of detergent residue in a washing machine because the default cycle was 'optimized' for specific artificial test loads not resembling any real world family clothes mix. Many machines still have a button or hidden option to set them to 'normal' operation. For others you will have to resort to trickery or plain reinterpreting of what the different programs and settings actually mean to get the right result.
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  I just use a fraction of the recommended laundry detergent. Helps prolong clothing and colours too. Spot spray any actual stains. But I also fear automotive durability is being lost in the name of fuel economy by using excessively thin oils. Not just in the motor (easy to change yourself, just ignore the label where they can’t recommend thicker oils), but also CV joints, bearings, transmissions and differentials. I put 87 (US octane system) instead of the “required” 91 because the fuel mileage loss doesn’t make up for the added premium. But of course the manufacturer will never say you can do that because they’ll lose their fuel economy record. It might actually matter with a turbo, but I don’t have one.
  - stouset 3y ago
    > I put 87 (US octane system) instead of the “required” 91 because the fuel mileage loss doesn’t make up for the added premium. Octane isn’t about gas mileage. It’s about compression. Lower octane gas is prone to auto-ignition at lower compression ratios. Running lower octane gas in an engine designed for higher risks catastrophic engine damage, as ignition can happen before the piston has reached peak compression.
    - 3y ago
ben_bai 3y ago
Mandatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2724/ https://xkcd.com/2724/ and Tech Connections Videos: https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections/search?query=dishwasher https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections/search?query=...
thibautg 3y ago
https://archive.is/q82v4 https://archive.is/q82v4
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
Government is making your life worse with its insane "environmental" policies. Just fucking turn on a few nuke plants! God I need to buy a top-loader. I wonder if they even exist in europe anymore. Only comically small ones by the look of it. Front-loaders struggle to even wash a bath towel. > a commercial dishwasher [...] takes about 90 seconds to clean a load of dishes instead of hours Imagine a world in which all machines were this good.
- yummypaint 3y ago
  You probably wouldn't want a commercial dishwasher at home. You must first thoroughly rinse all food particles off all items (think human dishwasher in a resturant). Then it uses the hot water it used to sterize the previous load as wash water for the next. As soon as one load completes, it will immediately expect another, as they are designed for continuous heavy use. They are very loud, require a 240V or 3 phase connection, and release truly massive amounts of steam requiring a hood/extractor to not mess up a residential kitchen. For a family of 4 people washing everything by hand would probably be less work and cheaper.
  - orra 3y ago
    Precisely, commercial dishwashers don't clean dishes. They sterilise already clean plates.
  - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
    There are smaller ones, used by dining halls etc in schools. They wash, rinse, sterilize.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    Every socket in my house has 230V, if the government manages to not screw up generation which is a possibility in the future. I hate on europe for a lot but that is one thing that is right over here. As for rinsing that is something that must be done anyway with an average consumer dishwasher. The food clogs the sprayer nozzles and eventually the pump too. Don't worry though because manufacturers conveniently sell you another cleaning product for that! Your point about hand washing is bordering on true. Government is making automation so poor that labor is considered.
wrp 3y ago
> ...Donna King experimented with the various settings of her washing machine, trying to get her clothes to stop coming out covered in detergent residue....King thinks the machine just doesn’t use enough water... A decade ago in Korea, I had a Samsung top-loader that worked great. Had to replace it and could only get a front-loader. Not only is it slow, I have to run the rinse cycle at least twice to get the detergent out. I now often resort to hand-washing and use the machine just for the spin cycle.
svrtknst 3y ago
I'm willing to bet that a lot of the times, the issues are 1) overestimating how much laundry detergent they need 2) not putting some extra detergent in the dishwasher
grapescheesee 3y ago
Meanwhile commercial dishwashers take all of three minutes per cycle. I would recommend buying commercial versions of any appliance if you're able. Parts are replaceable, made to be serviced, not choked full of eco marketing, or incompetent regulations which add to more waste in the long run.
- wil421 3y ago
  Commercial dishwasher are more like sanitizers. In a restaurant the dishwasher is the guy scraping the food off. Home dishwashers run for a long time because they are basically liquifying the leftover food, milk, and grime.
  - bradknowles 3y ago
    I have done that job. I was the dishwasher. After I cleaned off the gunk on the dishes with the commercial power sprayer, I loaded the trays into the commercial steam dish sanitizing machine. That's not what I want for a home dishwasher.
- gumby 3y ago
  You mean those things with a door on either size so the rack goes through from one side to the other? Those are high temperature sterilizers that take hand-washed dishes and blast them so you can put them on patrons' tables. The guy at the end of the article clearly had one of those (it looks like he probably said this but the wsj reporter cherry picked the quote, as it quotes him saying he could only use it for glasses at parties, not for plates with food residue. Bet he didn't call it a dishwasher since he's a repair guy).

34 points by mcenedella 3y ago

While modern dishwashers take longer, they’re a heck of a lot quieter (especially if you get a Bosch). Interesting reading about the hacks in the article, I suggest everyone here reads it. Dunno where the longer to boil pasta part comes from in the article. What I learned is that the turbo/quick cycles use a lot more energy and water. I guess that’s what’s needed to get the same end-state of cleanliness.

bradknowles 3y ago
We have a Bosch now. I will never ever again buy another Bosch. I don't care how highly they get rated by Consumer Reports. The next dishwasher we buy must have a heated dry mode, and it won't be a Bosch. Can't tell you anything more than that at the moment.
emmet 3y ago
We had a top of the line Bosch in the "Luxury" apartment we rented last, and I can assure you this is not the case for all of their models. Couldn't run it overnight without keeping everyone awake for 4 hours.
chakintosh 3y ago
I got a Bosch recently, and there is no way to know if it's working unless I put my ears to the door.
- arethuza 3y ago
  Our relatively new AEG shines a red light on the floor when it is operating (and a slowly flashing red light if the door is ajar) - turns out this is a better UI than a mobile app!
  - chakintosh 3y ago
    Speaking of AEG, they have some top notch lights and LED screens. Just got an Air purifier (AX9) yesterday and was impressed by the air quality indicator light and the touch screen seems to have high DPI as well.
    - arethuza 3y ago
      The last dishwasher we had was also an AEG - I made multiple repairs to it over the years but then the electricals gave out and I wasn't happy fiddling with that so we replaced it.

PeterStuer 3y ago

At least in the EU it has come to the point where you have to figure out how to 'boost' the appliances into a 'normal' cycle, as the default is just the 'eco' setting designed to pass the test's 'A+++' rating criterium under ideal circumstances. I am 100% in favour of not wasting energy and water, just not by deception and false savings where people use more water 'pre-rincing' their dishes in the sink than a regular dishwasher used to clean them, or having to manually add 2 extra soak and spin cycles to get rid of detergent residue in a washing machine because the default cycle was 'optimized' for specific artificial test loads not resembling any real world family clothes mix. Many machines still have a button or hidden option to set them to 'normal' operation. For others you will have to resort to trickery or plain reinterpreting of what the different programs and settings actually mean to get the right result.

Scoundreller 3y ago
I just use a fraction of the recommended laundry detergent. Helps prolong clothing and colours too. Spot spray any actual stains. But I also fear automotive durability is being lost in the name of fuel economy by using excessively thin oils. Not just in the motor (easy to change yourself, just ignore the label where they can’t recommend thicker oils), but also CV joints, bearings, transmissions and differentials. I put 87 (US octane system) instead of the “required” 91 because the fuel mileage loss doesn’t make up for the added premium. But of course the manufacturer will never say you can do that because they’ll lose their fuel economy record. It might actually matter with a turbo, but I don’t have one.
- stouset 3y ago
  > I put 87 (US octane system) instead of the “required” 91 because the fuel mileage loss doesn’t make up for the added premium. Octane isn’t about gas mileage. It’s about compression. Lower octane gas is prone to auto-ignition at lower compression ratios. Running lower octane gas in an engine designed for higher risks catastrophic engine damage, as ignition can happen before the piston has reached peak compression.
  - 3y ago

ben_bai 3y ago

Mandatory xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2724/ https://xkcd.com/2724/ and Tech Connections Videos: https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections/search?query=dishwasher https://www.youtube.com/@TechnologyConnections/search?query=...

thibautg 3y ago

https://archive.is/q82v4 https://archive.is/q82v4

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

Government is making your life worse with its insane "environmental" policies. Just fucking turn on a few nuke plants! God I need to buy a top-loader. I wonder if they even exist in europe anymore. Only comically small ones by the look of it. Front-loaders struggle to even wash a bath towel. > a commercial dishwasher [...] takes about 90 seconds to clean a load of dishes instead of hours Imagine a world in which all machines were this good.

yummypaint 3y ago
You probably wouldn't want a commercial dishwasher at home. You must first thoroughly rinse all food particles off all items (think human dishwasher in a resturant). Then it uses the hot water it used to sterize the previous load as wash water for the next. As soon as one load completes, it will immediately expect another, as they are designed for continuous heavy use. They are very loud, require a 240V or 3 phase connection, and release truly massive amounts of steam requiring a hood/extractor to not mess up a residential kitchen. For a family of 4 people washing everything by hand would probably be less work and cheaper.
- orra 3y ago
  Precisely, commercial dishwashers don't clean dishes. They sterilise already clean plates.
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  There are smaller ones, used by dining halls etc in schools. They wash, rinse, sterilize.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
  Every socket in my house has 230V, if the government manages to not screw up generation which is a possibility in the future. I hate on europe for a lot but that is one thing that is right over here. As for rinsing that is something that must be done anyway with an average consumer dishwasher. The food clogs the sprayer nozzles and eventually the pump too. Don't worry though because manufacturers conveniently sell you another cleaning product for that! Your point about hand washing is bordering on true. Government is making automation so poor that labor is considered.

wrp 3y ago

> ...Donna King experimented with the various settings of her washing machine, trying to get her clothes to stop coming out covered in detergent residue....King thinks the machine just doesn’t use enough water... A decade ago in Korea, I had a Samsung top-loader that worked great. Had to replace it and could only get a front-loader. Not only is it slow, I have to run the rinse cycle at least twice to get the detergent out. I now often resort to hand-washing and use the machine just for the spin cycle.

svrtknst 3y ago

I'm willing to bet that a lot of the times, the issues are 1) overestimating how much laundry detergent they need 2) not putting some extra detergent in the dishwasher

grapescheesee 3y ago

Meanwhile commercial dishwashers take all of three minutes per cycle. I would recommend buying commercial versions of any appliance if you're able. Parts are replaceable, made to be serviced, not choked full of eco marketing, or incompetent regulations which add to more waste in the long run.

wil421 3y ago
Commercial dishwasher are more like sanitizers. In a restaurant the dishwasher is the guy scraping the food off. Home dishwashers run for a long time because they are basically liquifying the leftover food, milk, and grime.
- bradknowles 3y ago
  I have done that job. I was the dishwasher. After I cleaned off the gunk on the dishes with the commercial power sprayer, I loaded the trays into the commercial steam dish sanitizing machine. That's not what I want for a home dishwasher.
gumby 3y ago
You mean those things with a door on either size so the rack goes through from one side to the other? Those are high temperature sterilizers that take hand-washed dishes and blast them so you can put them on patrons' tables. The guy at the end of the article clearly had one of those (it looks like he probably said this but the wsj reporter cherry picked the quote, as it quotes him saying he could only use it for glasses at parties, not for plates with food residue. Bet he didn't call it a dishwasher since he's a repair guy).