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>BMW has moved engine production to Austria and the UK, so it’s not like the company has ended that segment of its business just yet. Would be incredibly stupi

by wg0 3y ago

>BMW has moved engine production to Austria and the UK, so it’s not like the company has ended that segment of its business just yet. Would be incredibly stupid for German automakers to give up on their one of core competencies. EVs unless forced by regulations, have no place in average Joe's mind. And it isn't irrational. Problems are known.

fragmede 3y ago
"no place" is a bit much, don't you think? Global Warming is something to worry about, and EVs help, even if they're not perfect already.
- Our_Benefactors 3y ago
  > Global Warming is something to worry about Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car > and EVs help, even if they're not perfect already. Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car Don't know why you're being down voted for saying the truth. It's not your own opinion but it's still the wider truth no matter how uncomfortable it is. Most consumers don't care about the environment when they buy something and businesses care even less about the environment.
    - illiac786 3y ago
      He’s being downvoted because the formulation “have no place in average Joe's mind” is a bit ambiguous, it sounds like the poster’s opinion is, that it SHOULD NOT be the concern of the average joe, whereas I think he meant that it is unfortunately not. Secondly, he may have because of regulations. Thirdly, “problems are known” without even the slightest precision is pure trolling, that’s just not ok.
    - agbrrw 3y ago
      I don't see how it is uncomfortable. It would make me more uncomfortable if the anti-private transportation campaign started by the government and the media was working on the average Joe.
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      I feel like many do, but aren't willing to sacrifice. The key with any product is to provide advantages that help the consumer making the purchase, not just society or the environment.
    - acdha 3y ago
      I think it’s due to the big sweeping claim being made. Most people, even American conservatives, know that climate change is real and will make their lives worse. That doesn’t mean everyone is free to change the built environment around them to suit a lower-polluting lifestyle but that’s not the same as saying that they wouldn’t make other choices if they thought it was practical for them.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      Because it doesn't add anything to the discussion, other than repeating the preceding comment. It's twelve words repeated twice. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it doesn't describe the average Joe, it doesn't look into who they are or where they come from, it doesn't do anything to convince one way or another who "average Joe" is. Basically, [citation needed].
  - wg0 3y ago
    Also, how does it help with carbon emissions when: - 20% energy loss from charger to battery. - 10% loss from battery to motor. - Carbon emissions in manufacturing and Mining for large battery packs.
    - emodendroket 3y ago
      Because it’s possible for electricity to be generated from renewable sources, unlike gasoline. But of course you know this already.
- onetokeoverthe 3y ago
  [dead]
Daishiman 3y ago
I mean it showed that about 40% of new sales where on hybrids and fully electrics, so it very much seems in average Joe's mind.
hoerensagen 3y ago
Just to give a bit of context. Global Combustion engine vehicle sales have been falling since 2017.and EVs will be 18% of new vehicle sales in 2023 which will be a 35 YoY increase. https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive... https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/ev-car-sales-energy-environment-gas/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/ev-car-sales-energy-e...
- Proven 3y ago
  [dead]
thebruce87m 3y ago
One of the problems is that Joe thinks he needs a car with 600 miles of range to do his 30/mile per day commute.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  In EU long car trips are quite common especially in weekends or during winter and summer holiday season when everyone pack their family in their car and zerg-rushes south towards the Alps/Mediterranean, so everyone uses ICEs for such long journey. Range anxiety is too big of an issue for EVs to become popular for that purpose and families usually own one car to serve all occasions.
  - helsinkiandrew 3y ago
    Range anxiety is going the same way as peoples fear that electric cars were low powered and slow. The availability of chargers and cars that can give you 4-5 hours of drive time in 15 minutes is increasing every year. https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/electric-car-range-anxiety-is-dying-a-public-death/ https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/electric-car-range-anxiety-i...
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      That's not the reality in my EU world. Almost nobody either single or with family in my wider circle of acquaintances spread across 5 countries owns EVs. One guy's mom I know has one but also has an ICE for longer trips. Yes, statistically sales of EVS are increasing but growth is highly uneven, it's still mostly wealthy people and wealthy countries with chargers at home and businesses fleets with chargers at work. In my working class neighborhood of apartment buildings I see exactly zero EVs parked on the streets and zero chargers(could this be a connection? /s) And cheaper EVs don't usually support fast charging. Also EVs with half decent range and fast charging are still quite very expensive for the purchasing power of the average European. The best selling cars in the EU were almost all ICE and very affordable models to boot like the Dacia Sandero, well below the price of an EV with decent range. Biased feel good articles just saying "things are getting so much better" gloss over too many painful realities and don't really mean anything if that doesn't match the reality you're seeing with your own eyes.
mvdtnz 3y ago
> EVs unless forced by regulations, have no place in average Joe's mind. And it isn't irrational. Problems are known What absolute nonsense.
crote 3y ago
Average Joe is skeptical about electric cars - until they actually try driving one for the first time. Then Average Joe actually wants one but can't justify the price premium when compared to an ICE.
- bdcravens 3y ago
  Pretty much everyone who has driven mine (Kia EV6) or my wife's (VW ID.4) says they are pleasantly surprised when driving. Personal computers, laptops, cell phones, smartphones, etc all have gone through the cycle of being expensive for early adopters but mainstream in due time, and I suspect EVs will have a similar lifecycle.
  - JoBrad 3y ago
    Kia and Hyundai have done an excellent job with the design of their newer cars. However they’ve done an incredibly poor job with vehicle security. My wife is an insurance broker, and several of the bigger insurance companies will not even insure those brands, for newer models, because theft is out of control. Too bad, because I really like their look.
    - bdcravens 3y ago
      As I understand it, those issues don't apply to their EVs, as there's no traditional ignition, and they are keyless.
      - emodendroket 3y ago
        I think you’re right but I would be too worried that not-too-sophisticated would-be thieves figure that out after smashing your windows.
      - JoBrad 3y ago
        That’s correct. I didn’t know the EV vehicles were only keyless.
ch_sm 3y ago
> Problems are known. Very big, important problems are known with ICE-cars. Which is why we‘re switching.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
EVs are a better experience if you have a place to charge at home and aren’t constantly going on road trips. I strongly believe that most Americans with an ice car would prefer an EV if the cost made sense.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  And if you are that worried about range or having to look for chargers I feel like plug-in hybrids are a pretty attractive middle ground. Enough that I bought one!

by wg0 3y ago

fragmede 3y ago

"no place" is a bit much, don't you think? Global Warming is something to worry about, and EVs help, even if they're not perfect already.

Our_Benefactors 3y ago
> Global Warming is something to worry about Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car > and EVs help, even if they're not perfect already. Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Average Joe does not care about global warming when purchasing a car Don't know why you're being down voted for saying the truth. It's not your own opinion but it's still the wider truth no matter how uncomfortable it is. Most consumers don't care about the environment when they buy something and businesses care even less about the environment.
  - illiac786 3y ago
    He’s being downvoted because the formulation “have no place in average Joe's mind” is a bit ambiguous, it sounds like the poster’s opinion is, that it SHOULD NOT be the concern of the average joe, whereas I think he meant that it is unfortunately not. Secondly, he may have because of regulations. Thirdly, “problems are known” without even the slightest precision is pure trolling, that’s just not ok.
  - agbrrw 3y ago
    I don't see how it is uncomfortable. It would make me more uncomfortable if the anti-private transportation campaign started by the government and the media was working on the average Joe.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    I feel like many do, but aren't willing to sacrifice. The key with any product is to provide advantages that help the consumer making the purchase, not just society or the environment.
  - acdha 3y ago
    I think it’s due to the big sweeping claim being made. Most people, even American conservatives, know that climate change is real and will make their lives worse. That doesn’t mean everyone is free to change the built environment around them to suit a lower-polluting lifestyle but that’s not the same as saying that they wouldn’t make other choices if they thought it was practical for them.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Because it doesn't add anything to the discussion, other than repeating the preceding comment. It's twelve words repeated twice. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it doesn't describe the average Joe, it doesn't look into who they are or where they come from, it doesn't do anything to convince one way or another who "average Joe" is. Basically, [citation needed].
- wg0 3y ago
  Also, how does it help with carbon emissions when: - 20% energy loss from charger to battery. - 10% loss from battery to motor. - Carbon emissions in manufacturing and Mining for large battery packs.
  - emodendroket 3y ago
    Because it’s possible for electricity to be generated from renewable sources, unlike gasoline. But of course you know this already.
onetokeoverthe 3y ago
[dead]

Daishiman 3y ago

I mean it showed that about 40% of new sales where on hybrids and fully electrics, so it very much seems in average Joe's mind.

hoerensagen 3y ago

Just to give a bit of context. Global Combustion engine vehicle sales have been falling since 2017.and EVs will be 18% of new vehicle sales in 2023 which will be a 35 YoY increase. https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive-summary https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/executive... https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/ev-car-sales-energy-environment-gas/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/03/ev-car-sales-energy-e...

Proven 3y ago
[dead]

thebruce87m 3y ago

One of the problems is that Joe thinks he needs a car with 600 miles of range to do his 30/mile per day commute.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
In EU long car trips are quite common especially in weekends or during winter and summer holiday season when everyone pack their family in their car and zerg-rushes south towards the Alps/Mediterranean, so everyone uses ICEs for such long journey. Range anxiety is too big of an issue for EVs to become popular for that purpose and families usually own one car to serve all occasions.
- helsinkiandrew 3y ago
  Range anxiety is going the same way as peoples fear that electric cars were low powered and slow. The availability of chargers and cars that can give you 4-5 hours of drive time in 15 minutes is increasing every year. https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/electric-car-range-anxiety-is-dying-a-public-death/ https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/electric-car-range-anxiety-i...
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    That's not the reality in my EU world. Almost nobody either single or with family in my wider circle of acquaintances spread across 5 countries owns EVs. One guy's mom I know has one but also has an ICE for longer trips. Yes, statistically sales of EVS are increasing but growth is highly uneven, it's still mostly wealthy people and wealthy countries with chargers at home and businesses fleets with chargers at work. In my working class neighborhood of apartment buildings I see exactly zero EVs parked on the streets and zero chargers(could this be a connection? /s) And cheaper EVs don't usually support fast charging. Also EVs with half decent range and fast charging are still quite very expensive for the purchasing power of the average European. The best selling cars in the EU were almost all ICE and very affordable models to boot like the Dacia Sandero, well below the price of an EV with decent range. Biased feel good articles just saying "things are getting so much better" gloss over too many painful realities and don't really mean anything if that doesn't match the reality you're seeing with your own eyes.

mvdtnz 3y ago

> EVs unless forced by regulations, have no place in average Joe's mind. And it isn't irrational. Problems are known What absolute nonsense.

crote 3y ago

Average Joe is skeptical about electric cars - until they actually try driving one for the first time. Then Average Joe actually wants one but can't justify the price premium when compared to an ICE.

bdcravens 3y ago
Pretty much everyone who has driven mine (Kia EV6) or my wife's (VW ID.4) says they are pleasantly surprised when driving. Personal computers, laptops, cell phones, smartphones, etc all have gone through the cycle of being expensive for early adopters but mainstream in due time, and I suspect EVs will have a similar lifecycle.
- JoBrad 3y ago
  Kia and Hyundai have done an excellent job with the design of their newer cars. However they’ve done an incredibly poor job with vehicle security. My wife is an insurance broker, and several of the bigger insurance companies will not even insure those brands, for newer models, because theft is out of control. Too bad, because I really like their look.
  - bdcravens 3y ago
    As I understand it, those issues don't apply to their EVs, as there's no traditional ignition, and they are keyless.
    - emodendroket 3y ago
      I think you’re right but I would be too worried that not-too-sophisticated would-be thieves figure that out after smashing your windows.
    - JoBrad 3y ago
      That’s correct. I didn’t know the EV vehicles were only keyless.

ch_sm 3y ago

> Problems are known. Very big, important problems are known with ICE-cars. Which is why we‘re switching.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

EVs are a better experience if you have a place to charge at home and aren’t constantly going on road trips. I strongly believe that most Americans with an ice car would prefer an EV if the cost made sense.

emodendroket 3y ago
And if you are that worried about range or having to look for chargers I feel like plug-in hybrids are a pretty attractive middle ground. Enough that I bought one!