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CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft, they use their communications to achieve an end, expressing their inner sel

CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft, they use their communications to achieve an end, expressing their inner selves is not the point. You might know a great kind person who is a car salesman, when they are at work a good one comes off as genuine and friendly, the things they're saying include many truths, but their words and actions are primarily designed to sell cars. Assume this is true of any professional communicator when they're communicating.

charlie0 3y ago
This the main reason I don't trust people who are in the business of "selling". On one hand, it's nice being around those kinds of people. On the other hand, it's hard to take any of the nice things they say seriously. Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. The actual truth will be revealed by their actions.
- gretch 3y ago
  >I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. Yes this is always a wise thing to do. >Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I disagree with this take. I mean I’m sure there’s snakes out there. What I see in life though, is that most people don’t say enough nice things, even things they genuinely feel. They hold back from calling their dad or wife and saying “I love you”. Or giving a compliment to someone on the street if you like their outfit that you can tell they put time into. I think a lot of salespeople are just good at “opening the gates” a little. Personally I’ve been on a quest to be less stoic when it comes to expressing joy, and I highly recommend, especially for typical computer science personalities.
  - turzmo 3y ago
    People could afford to say more nice things. Perhaps it would even devalue the false flattery used by salespeople to their advantage. OTOH the parent comment's take seems reasonable. Calling your dad and saying "I love you" because you want to be written into the will is sort of the level we're dealing with here.
  - charlie0 3y ago
    No need to disagree, both our statements can be true at the same time. I also need to be less stoic, but I refuse to put on a mask to achieve that. My statement was directed at those who wear that mask all too well. Example, my landlord, who's in real estate and a very nice guy in person. However, he promised to do a few things and didn't do them. So his niceties where just that, nice words and nothing more. I'd rather deal with a less nice person who actually does what they said they will. With limits of course, no one likes a-holes.
- hutzlibu 3y ago
  "I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said" I've learned to apply this to every human being. Talk is cheap.
  - blastro 3y ago
    "Your actions speak so loud we can't hear what you say" - Jim Harbaugh
joering2 3y ago
> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft Elon Musk has entered the chat...
- tracerbulletx 3y ago
  I think he's gone a little more "experimental" and Avant Garde in his practice of the art. /s
- _1 3y ago
  That's the exception for someone born wealthy, buys an existing company, and installs themselves as CEO.
  - RationalDino 3y ago
    The source for his being born wealthy is his father. Who is known to be a conman. For example the emerald story seems to be false. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-father-errol-never-owned-emerald-mine-telling-truth-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-father-errol-never....
- Geee 3y ago
  Founder CEOs are a different breed. There's a plenty of successful founder CEOs who don't fit the typical hired CEO pattern. Zuckerberg, Sweeney, etc.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tmpz22 3y ago
    Is Elon a founder CEO of Twitter, Tesla, or SpaceX?
    - Geee 3y ago
      Maybe founder isn't the most accurate word here. Maybe 'owner CEO', i.e. has major control of the company. He is definitely not 'hired CEO' in any of those. (also he is CTO of Twitter, not CEO).
bmitc 3y ago
> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft That's kind of silly, isn't it? Altman is a college dropout who has barely ever worked and somehow fell upward into CEO positions very quickly. His level of communication in talks and interviews is terrible, so I am genuinely confused where all this mystique comes from. He sounds like a college student being asked and talking about management. It seems that if you have any title or personal relationship attached to you, people will listen to anything you say, and even say things or just conjure up an ora for you.
- threeseed 3y ago
  Altman founded Loopt. Not sure how you can say he fell into the CEO position there. Also at the time he was at YC it was a significantly smaller and less prestigious incubator.
  - bmitc 3y ago
    > Loopt, Inc. was an American company ... which provided a service for smartphone users to share their location selectively with other people. Yea, impressive stuff. I'm sure that gave him a lot of experience that led to being one of the few "professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft".
    - famouswaffles 3y ago
      That was not the point of that coment. You act like he just mysteriously found himself in executive positions when every company he's headed for a significant duration was one he founded. If you didn't even know that then you obviously know very little about him and couldn't even be bothered to do any research at all. This is a simple wikipedia search. So why are you so bothered about someone you know nothing about ?
- dr_dshiv 3y ago
  Watch him at Dev Day.
tomnipotent 3y ago
"Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" is a great book that touches on this subject. I read it in the middle of purchasing a new car in 2010, and had signed paperwork and a purchase agreement to buy car at $X. Next day I'm told "My manager won't let me sell for anything less than $X+Y", after I'd gone through all the trouble of filling out all that paperwork. Fortunetly I'd just finished a chapter in the book outlining this EXACT sales technique, that relies on a person being more willing to go through with an action if they've committed something to it... like filling out half an hours worth of paperwork. Said no thanks, and found the exact same car an hour away at less than $X. Haven't underestimated the impact of a salesperson since, and no longer delude myself trying to believe somehow I'm special and immune to such things.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  And probably the car is dodgy if they are pulling tricks like that. If a startup investor does it, probably their “help” is suspect.
- bambax 3y ago
  I don't know if this counts as selling, though. Selling is making you want to buy the car, agreeing on a price and filling in the paperwork. Trying to extract more money from you after you have agreed on a price is... extorsion? Fraud? But not just "selling".
  - tomnipotent 3y ago
    It's negotiation, which is absolutely selling. The dealership was counting on me accepting the price hike because the car I wanted was rare and in-demand, and I had already made some commitment to the process by filling out initial paperwork. I knew a manager still needed to approve the terms, but the sales rep made it sound like it was certain. Turns out this is an incredibly common car sales tactic, enough so that it was explicitly called out in the aforementioned book. Rather than harumph about how unfair it is, I decided it was better to just learn how to play the game. Unwilling participant or not, fair or not, it's better to come prepared than feel like you're getting taken advantage of.
Cacti 3y ago
Good CEOs are good communicators. Most CEOs, like literally any other profession, are not. People like Jobs are exceptions, and for every one of them there are a hundred shitty CEOs who are neither talented nor intelligent, even among the companies that are still alive, but they don’t get discussed here because this is a site about making money first, and tech second, and the crowd here doesn’t like hearing it’s all bullshit. For every Apple there are a hundred Shitty Integrated, Inc. companies that no one talks about, and every one has a CEO. There are no qualifications to be a CEO, ultimately, except the board happens to want you as CEO. It’s just a title.
robocat 3y ago
> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft But Sam the CEO has totally failed to manage the narrative throughout this episode. [A CEO needs to communicate better] Surely he could have stated it was a disagreement in direction? Instead he left it open to rumours: rumours which mostly assumed the board had good reason to sack him (everyone presumed the board couldn't be that stupid plus he didn't defend himself). : Many of those rumours were extremely damaging to Sam. Even if he couldn't say a thing, he could have got other third parties to endorse him. Nadella and Eric came out looking pretty good.

charlie0 3y ago

This the main reason I don't trust people who are in the business of "selling". On one hand, it's nice being around those kinds of people. On the other hand, it's hard to take any of the nice things they say seriously. Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. The actual truth will be revealed by their actions.

gretch 3y ago
>I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said. Yes this is always a wise thing to do. >Most of them say nice things to be likeable, not because they actually mean or will do what they say. I disagree with this take. I mean I’m sure there’s snakes out there. What I see in life though, is that most people don’t say enough nice things, even things they genuinely feel. They hold back from calling their dad or wife and saying “I love you”. Or giving a compliment to someone on the street if you like their outfit that you can tell they put time into. I think a lot of salespeople are just good at “opening the gates” a little. Personally I’ve been on a quest to be less stoic when it comes to expressing joy, and I highly recommend, especially for typical computer science personalities.
- turzmo 3y ago
  People could afford to say more nice things. Perhaps it would even devalue the false flattery used by salespeople to their advantage. OTOH the parent comment's take seems reasonable. Calling your dad and saying "I love you" because you want to be written into the will is sort of the level we're dealing with here.
- charlie0 3y ago
  No need to disagree, both our statements can be true at the same time. I also need to be less stoic, but I refuse to put on a mask to achieve that. My statement was directed at those who wear that mask all too well. Example, my landlord, who's in real estate and a very nice guy in person. However, he promised to do a few things and didn't do them. So his niceties where just that, nice words and nothing more. I'd rather deal with a less nice person who actually does what they said they will. With limits of course, no one likes a-holes.
hutzlibu 3y ago
"I've learned to pay close attention to what salesmen do, rather than what is said" I've learned to apply this to every human being. Talk is cheap.
- blastro 3y ago
  "Your actions speak so loud we can't hear what you say" - Jim Harbaugh

joering2 3y ago

> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft Elon Musk has entered the chat...

tracerbulletx 3y ago
I think he's gone a little more "experimental" and Avant Garde in his practice of the art. /s
_1 3y ago
That's the exception for someone born wealthy, buys an existing company, and installs themselves as CEO.
- RationalDino 3y ago
  The source for his being born wealthy is his father. Who is known to be a conman. For example the emerald story seems to be false. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-father-errol-never-owned-emerald-mine-telling-truth-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-father-errol-never....
Geee 3y ago
Founder CEOs are a different breed. There's a plenty of successful founder CEOs who don't fit the typical hired CEO pattern. Zuckerberg, Sweeney, etc.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tmpz22 3y ago
  Is Elon a founder CEO of Twitter, Tesla, or SpaceX?
  - Geee 3y ago
    Maybe founder isn't the most accurate word here. Maybe 'owner CEO', i.e. has major control of the company. He is definitely not 'hired CEO' in any of those. (also he is CTO of Twitter, not CEO).

bmitc 3y ago

> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft That's kind of silly, isn't it? Altman is a college dropout who has barely ever worked and somehow fell upward into CEO positions very quickly. His level of communication in talks and interviews is terrible, so I am genuinely confused where all this mystique comes from. He sounds like a college student being asked and talking about management. It seems that if you have any title or personal relationship attached to you, people will listen to anything you say, and even say things or just conjure up an ora for you.

threeseed 3y ago
Altman founded Loopt. Not sure how you can say he fell into the CEO position there. Also at the time he was at YC it was a significantly smaller and less prestigious incubator.
- bmitc 3y ago
  > Loopt, Inc. was an American company ... which provided a service for smartphone users to share their location selectively with other people. Yea, impressive stuff. I'm sure that gave him a lot of experience that led to being one of the few "professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft".
  - famouswaffles 3y ago
    That was not the point of that coment. You act like he just mysteriously found himself in executive positions when every company he's headed for a significant duration was one he founded. If you didn't even know that then you obviously know very little about him and couldn't even be bothered to do any research at all. This is a simple wikipedia search. So why are you so bothered about someone you know nothing about ?
dr_dshiv 3y ago
Watch him at Dev Day.

tomnipotent 3y ago

"Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" is a great book that touches on this subject. I read it in the middle of purchasing a new car in 2010, and had signed paperwork and a purchase agreement to buy car at $X. Next day I'm told "My manager won't let me sell for anything less than $X+Y", after I'd gone through all the trouble of filling out all that paperwork. Fortunetly I'd just finished a chapter in the book outlining this EXACT sales technique, that relies on a person being more willing to go through with an action if they've committed something to it... like filling out half an hours worth of paperwork. Said no thanks, and found the exact same car an hour away at less than $X. Haven't underestimated the impact of a salesperson since, and no longer delude myself trying to believe somehow I'm special and immune to such things.

quickthrower2 3y ago
And probably the car is dodgy if they are pulling tricks like that. If a startup investor does it, probably their “help” is suspect.
bambax 3y ago
I don't know if this counts as selling, though. Selling is making you want to buy the car, agreeing on a price and filling in the paperwork. Trying to extract more money from you after you have agreed on a price is... extorsion? Fraud? But not just "selling".
- tomnipotent 3y ago
  It's negotiation, which is absolutely selling. The dealership was counting on me accepting the price hike because the car I wanted was rare and in-demand, and I had already made some commitment to the process by filling out initial paperwork. I knew a manager still needed to approve the terms, but the sales rep made it sound like it was certain. Turns out this is an incredibly common car sales tactic, enough so that it was explicitly called out in the aforementioned book. Rather than harumph about how unfair it is, I decided it was better to just learn how to play the game. Unwilling participant or not, fair or not, it's better to come prepared than feel like you're getting taken advantage of.

Cacti 3y ago

Good CEOs are good communicators. Most CEOs, like literally any other profession, are not. People like Jobs are exceptions, and for every one of them there are a hundred shitty CEOs who are neither talented nor intelligent, even among the companies that are still alive, but they don’t get discussed here because this is a site about making money first, and tech second, and the crowd here doesn’t like hearing it’s all bullshit. For every Apple there are a hundred Shitty Integrated, Inc. companies that no one talks about, and every one has a CEO. There are no qualifications to be a CEO, ultimately, except the board happens to want you as CEO. It’s just a title.

robocat 3y ago

> CEOs are professional communicators who have reached the highest level of the craft But Sam the CEO has totally failed to manage the narrative throughout this episode. [A CEO needs to communicate better] Surely he could have stated it was a disagreement in direction? Instead he left it open to rumours: rumours which mostly assumed the board had good reason to sack him (everyone presumed the board couldn't be that stupid plus he didn't defend himself). : Many of those rumours were extremely damaging to Sam. Even if he couldn't say a thing, he could have got other third parties to endorse him. Nadella and Eric came out looking pretty good.