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US thwarted plot to kill Sikh separatist on American soil
- deskamess 3y agoThe consensus is that they succeeded in Canada. There is nothing much Canada can do but complain. The US is a different matter though.
- amriksohata 3y agoCanada is yet to still present the evidence too few people know the 1985 air India bombing was mostly affecting Canadian citizens and perpetrated by khalistani Sikh extremists
- llm_nerd 3y agoGiven the absolute over-the-top histrionics by the Indian contingent regarding Canada's revelation (one that was basically forced when media got ahold of the info), clearly Canada complaining meant an enormous amount to India and Indian expats. That whole situation was utterly bizarre. Canada abandoned free trade talks with India. The best part was the continued assertions that Canada stood alone (courtesy of our navel gazing, self-critical media which is how it should be, but is a bit asymmetrical when countering fanatics), all the while the US continually stated that they backed Canada. Indeed, it is overwhelmingly likely that the intel for both incidents had a common source. Another interesting revelation that flew under the radar- https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/30/indian-opposition-leaders-says-apple-has-warned-them-of-state-sponsored-iphone-attacks/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/30/indian-opposition-leaders-... The Modi government of India is basically acting like an autocracy now. All of the Indians who spent so much time attacking Canada might spend a little more time looking inwards.
- justrealist 3y agoIt's an autocracy that delivers though, realistically he is not at risk until growth drops below 4%.
- klyrs 3y agoIt's all good as long as the trains run on time?
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoFrom an American perspective, unfortunately, yes. It’s long been known that autocracies deliver foreign policy goals more reliably than democracies.
- justrealist 3y agoNo I am not claiming this is not true as a rule, and most autocracies in fact fail badly at delivering basic services. But any government that delivers 8% growth is safe, and currently Modi is doing so.
- avgcorrection 3y agoTrue democracies want selfish things like nationalizing their natural resources.
- hbarka 3y agoYou mean to say autocracies are easier to predict because they behave with a firm consistent control (until they leave). They are obviously not always aligned with our foreign policy goals. All you have to do is name a handful of current autocracies that come to mind.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> autocracies are easier to predict because they behave with a firm consistent control Correct. This is actually a criticism of Cold War era U.S. foreign politics, where a short-term “win” was prioritised over strategic alignment, the lesson being it almost always backfired. The only way we can build resilient alliances is by turning friends into allies, not those we’d like to ally with into “friends.” My concern is we’re doing the latter, again, with India.
- 38321003thrw 3y agoThis ex Indian diplomat analyses the recent Indian affair in context of BRICS and US’s views on the matter, and Modi’s “security state”: https://www.indianpunchline.com/nijjar-affair-poses-an-existential-dilemma/ https://www.indianpunchline.com/nijjar-affair-poses-an-exist... ”All in all, the Nijjar affair takes the lid off the acute contradictions in India’s foreign policies. The assumptions driving the foreign policy’s China-centric thrust turn out to be delusional; the “westernist” trajectory has landed in a cul-de-sac; the assiduously propagated larger-than-life global image of India turns out to be a mirage; foreign policy built on personality cult and opportunism rather than rational and consistent principles attuned to the world in transition got battered; and, most important, the hubris in India’s diplomacy boomeranged. The Nijjar affair poses an existential dilemma. Surrendering to the US diktat will make India look a surrogate state and a laughing stock in the Global South. Indians won’t approve of it. On the contrary, ignoring the diktat will be hugely consequential. Make no mistake, Five Eyes had a gory history against the Soviet Union; in the post-cold war era, it all but destabilised Hong Kong, and is today an active player in Myanmar and Thailand in India’s neighbourhood. Its entry in the subcontinent is ominous.“ And then (strangely more vigorous) https://www.indianpunchline.com/india-wont-be-bullied-in-multipolar-setting/ https://www.indianpunchline.com/india-wont-be-bullied-in-mul...
- alephnerd 3y agoI wouldn't dig too deep into M. K. Bharadkumar's views. He was part of the Indian Attaché to the Soviet Union and later Russia and Uzbekistan, and worked closely with both them when supporting the Northern Alliance during the Afghan Civil War in the 90s [0][1] He leans pro-Russia and anti-American. [0] - https://valdaiclub.com/about/experts/341/ https://valdaiclub.com/about/experts/341/ [1] - https://new.thecradle.co/columns/mk-bhadrakumar https://new.thecradle.co/columns/mk-bhadrakumar
- snapcaster 3y agoSo? Why would being pro-some country or anti-some other country mean he should be ignored?
- 38321003thrw 3y ago
- TriNetra 3y agoCanada (or US) is no saint here. I think India is just learning these tactics from West. If you can't get the criminals and terrorist in front of your court because they operate from other countries which encourages such people and use them as a tool to interfere and destabilize your society, you are left with no option but to get rid of them using similar tactics.
- 0dayz 3y agoTactics from the west? When has germany deployed assassination?
- Joker_vD 3y agoThe USA has employed drone strikes on non-US soil against Al Qaeda members who were, as I recall, quite eager to terrorize and destabilize "the great Satan", as they called it.
- ryloric 3y agoIs this a serious comment? You've bombed and killed several terrorists without any trial?
- 0dayz 3y agoOK, name a few.
- llm_nerd 3y agoDo you actually believe that Canada, the US, or any other part of the West is trying to "interfere and destabilize" India? If so you really need to touch grass and put down the propaganda pipe. Many Indians seem to think that because Canada doesn't actively stomp on activities that you personally don't approve of it's sanctioning them, seemingly having no concept of how freedoms work. If the West were trying to destabilize India I suspect it would be incredibly easy to achieve, which is exactly why there is that defensiveness and hitting at shadows. But the West isn't because India has long been a useful counter to regional powers. What is absolutely true is that the Modi government is spectacularly corrupt. Every opponent of Modi is a "terrorist" -- even opponents in government. The government is falling further and further down the well towards fascism, all while proud Indians convince themselves that everyone else is actually the problem.
- jp42 3y agoWhat's you thoughts on Canada harboring Khalistani separatist and not acting since years? Same with US - Pannun is US Citizen, also designated terrorist, openly threatening to blow Air India plane.
- petesergeant 3y agoCanada’s allies are remiss for not providing a united front on this. Where were the UK, US, Oz, and NZ in joint condemnation here?
- OJFord 3y agoI would be amazed if Sunak condemned Modi for something that happened in Canada, stands to gain more from their relationship than with Canada I imagine. (Perhaps, and I don't mean it conspiratorially or that it would be a reason, but just as an aside - even more so with a breakdown in India-Canada relations than without at the same time.)
- petesergeant 3y ago> stands to gain more from their relationship than with Canada In the short-term, maybe, but none of them are benefitting from an India who feels it can bully any of the other five
- OJFord 3y agoI'm not saying it's the best move for the country long-term (nor that it isn't!) - just that I'd be surprised to see it from Sunak. 'In the short-term, maybe' only adds to it: there'll be a general election before the end of Jan '25.
- petesergeant 3y agoFair enough, and doubly a shame as Sunak’s criticism would probably carry more weight there than most of the others, given his heritage. He has been a very underwhelming PM, which is a shame given his obvious potential, and the very low bar his predecessors set.
- glonq 3y agoBusy profiting from their relationships with India, that's where. Same thing happens when Canada criticizes Saudi Arabia, etc.
- theschmed 3y agohttps://archive.ph/Alutq https://archive.ph/Alutq
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dvfjsdhgfv 3y agoIf it's true, and if it really happened, it would have dramatic consequences for US-India relations. And there are at least 2 countries that would like to see that happen.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoWho are the two countries?
- dmix 3y agoPakistan and China, or maybe Russia and China
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jprd 3y agoIndia did the exact same thing in Canada not long ago. Brazen and not that great of an idea.
- dmix 3y agoThey seemed to have called Canada’s poker hand successfully knowing no one takes Canada’s leadership seriously anymore. Probably the most unserious leadership you’d want in a global conflict requiring being tough and assertive. Unlike US<>Canada the Sikh killing was predated by a long series of bad looks by Canada re: India. They knew the deal. Canada hasn’t even risked releasing any evidence months later. The issue seems DOA.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> seemed to have called Canada’s poker hand…issue seems DOA The investigation is progressing at a normal pace. It’s incorrect to suggest it’s DOA. It also had a multibillion-dollar impact on multiple Indian investments, so to suggest it had no consequences is also wrong. (On a fundamental level, the killings Streisand effected the Khalistan cause. I’m of Indian descent and had not heard of Operation Blue Star [1].) > Canada hasn’t even risked releasing any evidence If the intel was American SIGINT, Ottawa wouldn’t have the authority to unilaterally release it. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star
- Ajay-p 3y agoThe article is light on specifics, which I suppose is understandable given the nature of it, but my first question is if is considered state sponsored? If so that would be very incendiary to U.S. - Indian relations and maybe a reason for the reticence of details.
- alephnerd 3y agoNot surprised. That said, Panun did also threaten to blow up an Air India flight by Nov 19th (clearly didn't happen). That said, there won't be blowback between India and US relations as a whole. The US is too important to India and India is too important to the US. The Indian method also sucks from an OpSec standpoint - Indian agencies transfer Senior Police from state level to RAW or IB and those state police departments might brag about it on their websites. This is a big issue with Punjab Police (who tend to manage the Khalistan issue)
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> Panun did also threaten to blow up an Air India flight by Nov 19th Source? The article says “Pannun angered Indian officials this month by issuing a video in which he warned Sikhs not to fly on Air India because it would be ‘life threatening’ and that “he told the FT he was not making a violent threat against the airline. Given the context of Sikhs being murdered overseas by New Delhi, that statement seems to have multiple reasonable interpretations.
- alephnerd 3y agoI'm trying to find a way to share the video from Instagram to HN. I'm not sure how to generate a share link.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> the video from Instagram If this is the best source available, we’re probably best without it.
- alephnerd 3y agoHis organization - Sikhs for Justice - only posts on Instagram and FB
- ra7 3y agoAn Air India flight was blown up in 1985 by Canadian Sikh terrorists killing 329 people. With that context, it’s easy to see how this would be considered a threat. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182
- user3939382 3y agoPaywall
- dartharva 3y agoRather strange that FT, a British business newspaper is the primary reporter of such a huge geopolitical event. How come it was the one to contact "the people familiar with the case" first and not literally any American news channel?
- tyingq 3y ago> US authorities...issued a warning to India’s government over concerns it was involved in the plot I'm interested in how some of these diplomacy decisions actually play out. I'm hoping some insider writes a book later. Compare, for example, the case with Shireen Abu Akleh. It seems very clear she was deliberately killed by the IDF. She was an American citizen, wearing full press gear. As far as I can tell, the US never even gave a "stern warning" to Israel.
- anon291 3y agoA cursory search for Shireen Abu Akleh says she was killed by an Israeli soldisr in the west bank. American citizens dying in a foreign country is not a sovereignty threat
- tyingq 3y agoYes, it's a somewhat different diplomacy issue. Surely, though, a citizen of your country being killed by an allied country's military, that you give billions of dollars to every year, is...an issue of some magnitude?
- qaq 3y agoIf this is indeed Indian government they are aware they are conducting an opp on US soil. I have hard time imagining IDF has a policy of deliberately targeting US Citizens.
- tyingq 3y ago>I have hard time imagining IDF has a policy of deliberately targeting US Citizens. I agree with that, but I think it's fairly easy to assume they have a policy of deliberately targeting journalists, the citizenship probably didn't come into play in the decision.
- qaq 3y agoLooking at the history even if such policy exists they are def. trying to avoid targeting western journalists. As sad as it sounds if she looked like a westerner she would prob be alive. On the other hand I have no clue clue if Hamas etc. have history of using vests and other press gear as cover in their ops.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- incomingpain 3y agoIndia has been directly accused of this by Canada; confirmed by several sources outside Canada. It's basically impossible to deny India had done this. Mind you, India hates Canada. We are stealing all their top talent as migrants. On the subject of khalistan. You drive by a gurduwar here in Canada and they all seem to be pro-khalistan. They have to do it now. India is about to become the Asian super power in China's collapse. When this shift happens, the sikhs will have no opportunity for independence for probably 200+ years.
- fakedang 3y ago> We are stealing all their top talent as migrants. Lol no. The USA is stealing India's top talent. Canada is just getting whatever residue remains at the bottom of the educational immigration barrel, filled with washouts who couldn't get a job back home so they decided to enroll at a fake degree mill (yes, there are exceptions, far and few).
- ryloric 3y agoThe top talent part is largely Untrue. That goes to USA. Canada mostly gets a lot of students and the universities they go to for the most part don't have a great reputation. I mean, it's not Canada's fault or lack of trying. It's very hard to be attractive to top talent when you're next to USA really, especially when most of us are in the tech industry.
- incomingpain 3y agoThis is not an either/or situation. It's possible for both the USA and Canada to be stealing top talent. Anecdotally, I have met many Indian people in IT and they have all been top talent.
- bannedbybros 3y ago[dead]
- hunglee2 3y agoShould two of the world's leading democracies fall out over something like this? Both countries have a track record of assassinating national security threats on the territories of other countries, including allied states.
- et-al 3y agoDefine falling out. Also, what's India's track record of assassinations beyond Modi? I think the cardinal sin here is not trying to extradite the person, or asking the host country for permission or assistance via some backchannel.
- mirchibajji 3y agoHow are you sure it did not happen? I am not suggesting India tried everything first, but neither party here has a proven track record of trustworthiness. If India wants to stop him by any means, the best strategy would be to not ask and be denied; it would be a shame if something happened to him later.
- quantum_state 3y agoFeel it is worth to note that democracy only concerns how a government is selected within a country. A country’s behavior at the international level is another dimension, not much related to its internal system of governance, at least in principle. Therefore it is not surprising that a democratic country behaves similarly to an autocratic or authoritarian one.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> country’s behavior at the international level is another dimension, not much related to its internal system of governance, at least in principle I don’t believe this is true, diplomatically or in warfare. Democracies don’t tend to go to war against each other, for example [1]. They also fight harder, and with more technological sophistication, when they wage war. [1] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Patrick-Mello/publication/305207296_Democratic_Peace_Theory/links/5784a33008aeca7daac555e6/Democratic-Peace-Theory.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Patrick-Mello/publicati...
- raincom 3y agoOne tidbit: Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, the target in this question, is claimed to be a CIA asset. Recently, he 'threatened to blast' Air India flights. Same group he associated with bombed Air India Flight 182 in 1995, killing 329 folks--and one Canadian security services agent was involved in this blast, that's why Canada sabotaged the investigation [1][2]. Another reason why Canada didn't help the post-blast investigation: victims are not white, and the key suspect in that blast was sought for extradition, but Trudeau's dad declined that extradition request because 'India only recognized Her Majesty as Head of the Commonwealth, and not as Head of State.'[3] Even some Indian security official claimed that Gurpatwant Singh Pannun is an American asset in a public forum. That's why he can openly call for bombing Indian flights without any repercussions whatsoever, because he is protected by CIA (therefore by FBI/DOJ). 'It is not for any other reason that Indian intelligence chief told the CIA Director that the only reason they don’t take action against SFJ’s G.S Pannun, who holds dual citizenship of US and Canada, for openly calling for assassinations of Indian diplomats and burning of Indian flag could be because he is actually a CIA agent and batting on behalf of Langley.' [4] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_Flight_182 [2] https://espionage.substack.com/p/canadian-intelligences-dirty-little-secret https://espionage.substack.com/p/canadian-intelligences-dirt... [3] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/a-tale-of-two-trudeaus-and-canadas-mollycoddling-of-khalistani-terror/articleshow/103583278.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/a-tale-of-tw... [4] https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/view-how-trudeau-s-allegations-over-nijjar-killing-exposes-western-double-standards-101695353685119.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/view-how-trudeau-s-a...
- amriksohata 3y agoShocking the things he has said and got away with
- shri_krishna 3y ago[flagged]
- catlover76 3y ago> Exactly. And you will find a lot of Khalistani shills here, in this very comment section, defending this Terror group Almost nobody on here gives a fuck about Khalistan or Sikh separatism, we just don't care for a) the kind of jingoistic attitude that you're exhibiting right now; b) a foreign country killing our citizenry. > The West should understand clearly that India will not tolerate Terror groups being harboured and protected in the West...We don't owe the West any explanation anymore. too big for britches. Your country is still fundamentally a third-world country that is reliant on commerce with richer nations. Most of its economic power comes from being really big; but it's not South Korea or Japan, which are successful and developed countries in deeper and more fundamental ways. > Like literally what is the difference left between a rogue state like Pakistan and US/Canada/UK etc if both are following the same script of harbouring Terrorists on its soil and refusing to extradite them on flimsy grounds? A third world country where the rule of law applies questionably does not get to decide whether a Canadian or American refusal to extradite is flimsy or not. And, for all its faults, Pakistan is not a "rogue" state.
- amriksohata 3y agoSikh separatist is a bit light, the man (pannu) doesn't even wear a turban and has made videos calling that could be taken as threats to airliners. More of an extremist.
- padrammardap 3y agoI want to share an anecdote. In the early 2000s, during the H1B blooming period for IT workers in the Bay Area, an Indian friend living in Fremont used to tell me that an Indian “detective” agency was active locally making sure that role placements were not jeopardized.
- alephnerd 3y agoThe Indian govt is saying that the conversation mentioned in FT was related to organized crime [0]. This does track with the modus operandi I've been hearing about. The IB/RAW attaché has been placing hits on a couple of these people [1] (please find the Vancouver Sun article the ToI article is basing it on - ti Google fu is failing me but I remember reading it back in July). In general, there is an ongoing gang war in Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Delhi, and the US-Canada Diaspora after the AAP won Punjab elections. In Punjabi politics there is often implicit coordination between specific gangs and parties. Some gangsters would align with SAD, and others with INC. After the AAP won in 2022, the entire system fell apart, as the AAP is the new kid in town, and plenty of older gangs and biradiris didn't have links with them. Add to that the ongoing gang war in Delhi NCR as development is speeding up, meant that there are new players entering the game and there's active consolidation both between parties and gangs. I guess Lawrence Bishnoi has turned to a RAW asset based on all of this news. [0] - https://theprint.in/diplomacy/after-ft-report-on-us-foiling-plot-to-kill-pannun-india-says-it-got-inputs-from-us-on-crime-nexus/1855449/ https://theprint.in/diplomacy/after-ft-report-on-us-foiling-... [1] - https://m.timesofindia.com/india/contract-for-nijjar-hit-was-online-for-several-weeks-canadian-media/articleshow/103823773.cms https://m.timesofindia.com/india/contract-for-nijjar-hit-was...
- KyleBerezin 3y agoI was surprised how many people sided with India when they assassinated that Sikh in Canada. Especially considering the Indian response was basically "Yea well he deserved it, though it wasn't us."
- nojvek 3y agoSome of what was going on was entering hate speech. There were posters of Indian consulate folks with crosses on them near the gurudwaras. Those folks received death threats, threats of their kids getting kidnapped. Anyone advocating for violence and death is a no-no in my book. Peaceful protests are perfectly fine but this was in gray area.