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95% of OpenAI Employees (738/770) Threaten to Follow Sam Altman Out the Door
- TheCaptain4815 3y agoEven if this all works out in Sam’s favor, I wonder how a lot of these employees could ever work with Ilya again given the amount of money he cost them in equity.
- mrandish 3y agoAt this point, it's basically down to Food Services, Building Maintenance and Security, right?
- hotnfresh 3y agoEveryone contracts those out now.
- dschofie 3y agoMakes you wonder how many other companies would have this level of consensus supporting their CEO
- skygazer 3y agoNone. A CEO with >95% approval rating is unheard of, even considering sole-proprietorships
- m_ke 3y agoHow many people would stand in front of their boss and the rest of the world and say that they don't support him? That's what this open letter is equivalent to.
- jnwatson 3y agoFormer boss.
- skygazer 3y agoYou may want to double check that. Their letter was in support of the CEO from 3 days ago. Although you’re right they don’t support the new CEO appointed within the last 24 hrs, but they don’t explicitly mention that, but they do lambast the current board of directors — and I imagine the the board should feel embarrassed, but save one, there’s no evidence of that.
- koromak 3y agoOuch. The truth hurts.
- OJFord 3y agoSure, but (even more importantly after passing some threshold of signatures) the question's not 'do you approve of Altman as CEO' but 'do you approve of the board of your employer'. And I'm not just saying it's the board vs CEO, it's job preservation etc. not just abstract personality approval. (Again, much more so for the last 20% than the first.)
- hotnfresh 3y agoIt’s fairly unusual that a CEO getting fired would put a company’s ability to continue to operate at such high risk. I’d take it less as a signal of approval in the ordinary sense (though some of it’s probably that!) and more one of perceived dependence. Altman = Microsoft = big piles of cash.
- frognumber 3y agoI'm not sure the problem is that he got fired, so much as how he got fired.
- lolinder 3y agoThis isn't indicative of a >95% approval rating for Altman, though—once the first 50% of employees sign the letter, the rest might sign due to peer pressure (even if not explicit), or because their favorite coworkers have already signed, or because the new CEO doesn't have a good reputation among workers, or lots of other reasons besides "when last asked if I approved of the CEO in the abstract I said yes".
- skygazer 3y agoBy the dozens of employee accounts I’ve read in the last 72 hours they all spoke with affection, and I could not find any detractors. A repeated theme was that he always took the time to listen and he cared and went out of his way. I’ve never worked with a CEO I would describe that way. I don’t know how widespread that is among their employees, or whether they’re mostly pissed at the board for destroying their financial futures, but I’d say this situation and their level of devotion is mind boggling, almost cult like.
- 000ooo000 3y ago>I could not find any detractors It's obvious and I don't mean to imply you aren't aware or even that you're wrong, but if I had the earning potential of an OpenAI employee, I probably wouldn't be looking to publicly shit on anyone that might affect that gravy train.
- skygazer 3y agoI did find a detractor: https://twitter.com/geoffreyirving/status/1726754270224023971 https://twitter.com/geoffreyirving/status/172675427022402397...
- afavour 3y agoThis isn’t an approval rating, though. For one it’s public. I’m sure there’s a lot of pressure, spoken or unspoken, to sign.
- skygazer 3y agoI must admit, the first clause of my sentence was mostly a vehicle for the second clause, the punchline — sole-proprietors not approving of themselves. It loses a bit in the explaining. Although whatever that 95% is a proxy for, they clearly trust Altman dramatically, enough to endure a job at a Microsoft subsidiary.
- mfru 3y agoFor cult leaders, however, we are in familiar approval territories.
- layer8 3y agoIt’s probably more disapproval of the board than approval of the CEO.
- pardoned_turkey 3y agoIt's probably a reflection of the fact that most engineers who joined OpenAI did so with the hope of becoming rich and working at what might end up being one of the most influential tech companies in the world. They probably figured the non-profit governance thing is just some weird accounting or PR thing. I doubt they care about Sam Altman. But they didn't turn down offers from other tech giants to be stuck at a niche AI doomer research shop.
- unyttigfjelltol 3y agoIt's apples and oranges. Employees are expressing a preference for making a profit versus the nonprofit board. I'm sort of impressed 5% of the crowd might elevate conscience over cash. No other business has been so insane as to pursue a naked profit objective under the guise of a nonprofit operation. The fact that Altman did so is not a virtue, in my opinion.
- ajkjk 3y agoI kinda doubt that. I imagine they're mostly mad about the injustice and unilateralness of it. For all we know the employees would make the same money either way. Agree that it's not virtuous, though.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago> The fact that Altman did so is not a virtue, in my opinion. And did it so shrewdly he didn't get fired earlier, before he was "too big to fire."
- letmevoteplease 3y agoYou're accepting the board's good vs. evil framing without any evidence that Altman sacrificed safety for profit, or that the board (the Quora guy, really?) is any better. OpenAI needs money to achieve its mission. Training GPT-4 alone cost over $100 million. Commercializing the product is not bad in itself.
- LZ_Khan 3y agoThe quora guy is the last person I can think of that's not profit motivated.
- PaulKeeble 3y agoIf the original statement said that the board had removed him because it disagreed on for profit and Altman refused to change course then that makes a lot of sense and I think many people would at least be OK with their motives, even if it likely harmed OpenAI's progress. Doesn't look like that is the reason given they are still holding onto Microsoft's $10 billion deal, the rejection/cancellation/notice of termination/notice it would be the last of that would have come along with the firing if this was the motive. Whatever the real motives are I don't think we have heard them yet, which is a bad sign for them being with cause.
- lucasyvas 3y agoVery few.
- jmyeet 3y agoJust your daily reminder that there is no value without labor. The board has come off looking awful here regardless of the merits of their actions. That alone is reason why they should be replaced.
- stcredzero 3y agoJust your daily reminder that there is no value without labor. Not quite, but so verging on false. Tons of labor with zero knowledge, design, coordination, and skill can yield near zero or zero value. Likewise, there are cases where comparatively less labor can yield outsized value. The problem isn't labor going out the door. The problem is the knowledge and other factors which go out the door with it. (Something which those seeking AGI seek to change.)
- piva00 3y ago> Not quite, but so verging on false. Tons of labor with zero knowledge, design, coordination, and skill can yield near zero or zero value. Likewise, there are cases where comparatively less labor can yield outsized value. I don't understand the quip, there's literally no value without labour. Some labour might have outsized value given inputs and costs, some might yield zero or negative value but all value depends on labour.
- stcredzero 3y agothere's literally no value without labour For now.
- polio 3y agoThe AI industry seems to exist in order to make it possible for there to be value without labor.
- jmyeet 3y agoAnd labor makes those AIs, even if it's a separate company. Until AI digs up the resources, builds the machines to do that, makes the computers they run on and writes the software there'll always be a labor factor. Plus, once AI does all those things, it now pretty much falls into the labor bucket. There is no value without labor.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoCould the last one out of OpenAI please hit the lights?
- himaraya 3y agoGiven the board sees winding down the company within its mandate, they may just keep playing this game of chicken.
- nilkn 3y agoUnfortunately, shutting down OpenAI would probably be seen as a win for Poe by Adam D’Angelo. He literally stands to lose both Quora and Poe if Sam keeps scaling up OpenAI’s product strategy. It’s one of the biggest conflicts of interest I’ve ever seen in business.
- himaraya 3y agoI agree but Sam made the deliberate choice to leave him in place after forcing out Reid Hoffman over Inflection AI. https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-privately-unhappy-about-leaving-openais-board https://www.semafor.com/article/11/19/2023/reid-hoffman-was-...
- optimalsolver 3y agoOne of the remaining 32: "Hey, man, I'm just the Linux guy."
- zamadatix 3y agoFunnily enough, still one of the larger Linux employers.
- ahipple 3y agoGiven the timing the remaining 32 could plausibly just be the set of people who are hard OOO for the (US) Thanksgiving holiday week -- on airplanes, in cars, or otherwise indisposed and out of touch with 'work news' for a few days.
- darknavi 3y agoOr are in the US on sensitive visas and can't just quit without something else lined up.
- YiraldyGuber 3y ago[dead]
- meibo 3y agoImagine going on vacation from your extremely well paid silicon valley AI job, just to find the company gone and that everyone around you quit a few days ago. I'm sure that happened a few times already but it's not a situation I'd like to find myself in.
- goobergoo 3y agoThis is how we know that mankind cannot be trusted to develop harness and maintain an all-powerful AGI : absolutely everybody who is working on the project is more interested in the value of their own stock options than what happens in the future when this thing gets loose.
- jay-barronville 3y ago> absolutely everybody who is working on the project is more interested in the value of their own stock options than what happens in the future when this thing gets loose. Seriously, that’s what you got from this?
- neilv 3y agoI think it'd be very interesting to see confidential polling that shows, for each (anonymized) employee: * how they feel about the CEO-in-exile returning, * what they think the company's goals and strategies should be, * their individual financial and career goals at the company, and * conditions under which they'd leave the company.
- rekuber 3y agoWhen someone threatens that they'd rather join Microsoft, that tells.. well, something!
- evbogue 3y agoIf everyone quits how will they follow the executive order on AI safety?
- prirun 3y agoAssuming these employees follow Altman to Microsoft, it seems like Microsoft got a pretty good deal on their $10B investment in OpenAI, most of which they haven't paid yet.
- vaxman 3y agoHow quickly can DJ Elon de Don get organized and swoop in to take them Home, where they belong? Spending their remaining productive mortal lives in an MS bus terminal isn’t as bad as it sounds though. (Younger Me just projectile vomited.) https://fortune.com/2023/11/18/elon-musk-ilya-sutskever-openai-leadership-upheaval-sam-altman/amp/ https://fortune.com/2023/11/18/elon-musk-ilya-sutskever-open...
- reducesuffering 3y agoNow do it anonymously without peer pressure. OpenAI employee: “Yes, lots of peer pressure. Didn’t have a choice. They were calling people in the middle of the night.” https://twitter.com/seriouslyrick/status/1726767686418338257 https://twitter.com/seriouslyrick/status/1726767686418338257
- none_to_remain 3y agoCan't wait to see the warez .NFO for the GPT-4 leak
- brucethemoose2 3y agoTurns out its a MOE of like 50 Llama 65B finetunes.
- tomohelix 3y agoOne thing is at some point, you are peer pressured into signing a petition. When your boss, your coworkers, and your reports are already in it, you got to be in it too. That said, it would still take a significant number of people before it gets to the snowballing phase and it is obvious OAI won't come out of this unscathed.
- tempsy 3y agoI’m more convinced this whole thing was Adam D’Angelo feeling blindsided by the GPT store which is effectively what his Poe platform does, and then convincing Ilya and the two other board members to agree with some hand wavy explanation to fire him. Would explain why Ilya has now reversed course.
- gitfan86 3y agoAnd this is why 99% of AI safety is a waste of time. Skynet and paperclips are clearly not the risk. The risk is a person deciding that they need to use their power to do what they want and that person having access to powerful AI. What if Adam had a backdoor to GPT-5. He could have got sam arrested by generating proof that he was using company funds on prostitutes and drugs?
- colinsane 3y agoas a low-level employee, what happens when you don't sign? i've been on the minority side for stuff like that a couple times in my career, and so far there's never been much fallout. i don't deny it could go south sometimes, rather i'd like to understand more so i can predict when/how it would go south next time i'm in the minority again.
- gitfan86 3y agoIt isn't peer pressure, it is just reality. 60 people are not going to be able to run OpenAI especially since those 60 people will have not had a 2 week knowledge transfer window with the missing 700 people.
- pyrophane 3y agoI would be curious to know under what circumstances the board indicated that "'allowing the company to be destroyed' would be consistent with the mission'. Because there are some circumstances under which it would. The most obvious is the reason why you strap a shotgun to that server, so to speak.
- dang 3y agoRelated ongoing megathread: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38347868 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38347868 - Nov 2023 (1182 comments)
- pyrophane 3y agoI've been part of a development team meltdown, where an entire engineering org left a company within a few months (we didn't all have a standing offer from a single company, so people trickled out as we found new jobs). In retrospect, it was not a good company and good for us all for leaving, but the internal drama hit such a fever pitch at one point that we were nearing open rebellion and it was perhaps a bit over the top. I did, however, make quite a few close friends that I still have to this day.
- ascendednormie 3y agoThey're threatening to leave because if Sam doesn't return as CEO, >70% of their compensation in PPU equity (profit participation units) will vanish.
- Geisterde 3y agoReading these comments its like everyone forgot who Sam Altman is, eyeball scanning orb that sells your biometrics for crypto Sam Altman? This guy is a literal fraud and its a shame they didnt get rid of him sooner, good riddance. All the employees and investors too, who knows what the board is really trying to achieve, but if their mission statement is truly the goal then the investors can get bent and Id take the employees up on their offer, let them quit! Easier on the books that way.