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Apple plans to equip MacBooks with in-house cellular modems
- ccamrobertson 3y agoMacRumors should at least link to their own article from 2011 talking about the actual MacBook Pro prototype that was discovered in 2011 ("Tyco"): https://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/14/photos-of-a-prototype-macbook-pro-with-integrated-3g-cellular-data/ https://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/14/photos-of-a-prototype-m...
- wkat4242 3y agoYeah I remember seeing that. I so would have bought it at the time if it had been an option. The antennas looked really good too.
- hrdwdmrbl 3y agoThe hybrid phone-table-laptop takes another small step. I've been expecting this feature for a while. Our phones are becoming tables. Our tables are becoming laptops. Our laptops are becoming mobile.
- camtarn 3y agos/table/tablet/ I'm assuming?
- isoprophlex 3y agoI'm picturing someone pressing their ear onto a table and yelling "SIRI DIAL MY MUM PLEASE"
- DANmode 3y agoThis more or less sums up how I've seen finance people use desk-size Surface products.
- brookst 3y agoYou really t'd them up there.
- adolph 3y agoApple offers tablets and watches with cell modems, why wait for "in-house" to add them as a laptop SKU in 5 years? What's the advantage over just attaching to one's cell phone? In 2028 is a cell modem still going to exist, or should "cell" be rethought as "satellite?"
- jdminhbg 3y agoThe sticking point is paying Qualcomm for the modems, because their terms take a % of the total device sale for each device sold with one. When you're talking about $5000 laptops that's a huge amount of money.
- tm-guimaraes 3y agoAlso, less risky to start using in house modems on the smaller product segment (laptops with 5g)
- whartung 3y agoThere's also a lot more room, heat, antenna routing, and power budget in a laptop. They can have something functional, but just generally less efficient (for assorted values of "efficiency") that will work fine in a laptop, but not necessarily in a cell phone form factor.
- adolph 3y agoThat doesn't seem to stop more cost sensitive manufacturers like Dell. Maybe other manufacturers just make an SKU for an NGFF module and Qualcomm's cut comes from that? https://www.amazon.com/Zopsc-Replacement-Wireless-DW5811e-Qualcomm/dp/B07VKNR8T2/ https://www.amazon.com/Zopsc-Replacement-Wireless-DW5811e-Qu...
- secondcoming 3y agoAre these legit? They seem quite cheap.
- NetBeck 3y agoSchools could buy these for students instead of parking buses outside to act as WiFi hotspots.
- jjice 3y agoBuying MacBooks for each student instead of using a separate hotspot? Also, is this a common thing for schools to do these days?
- ChicagoBoy11 3y agoGiven schoolwork is now done so ubiquitously on a computer/online, and especially after the pandemic, a lot of districts/schools have had to present solutions for connectivity for families, because of financial need and otherwise. Source: am school tech admin
- freedomben 3y agoIsn't buying each student a connected macbook and data plan kind of pricey? Most school already suffer from poor funding/low budget, this seems like it would be painful.
- acdha 3y agoOur school district has an in-between approach: they buy cheaper devices (ChromeBooks and iPads) without cellular connections but they have Wi-Fi hotspots they’ll give to qualifying students who wouldn’t otherwise have access. My hope is that more voters will see municipal Wi-Fi as a valuable utility since we have dark fiber all over the city because they’re choosing not to compete with Verizon.
- jjice 3y agoFor sure, that makes sense to me, but it seems like Chromebooks have cornered the market for this kind of work by being cheap, easy, and targeting this demo. Kids also don't have a great reputation with treating tech that isn't their own with respect, based on my experience in high school.
- dymk 3y agoHave any manufacturers shipped a (modern) laptop with an integrated modem? This seems like a feature that would have an outsized positive impact on UX, given how simple it sounds. Today, I can connect to a person hot-spot or coffee shop wifi, but that's Another Step and many wifi hotspots like to boot me if I close the lid, even for a short time. Having a laptop that's seamlessly connected at all times would be seriously cool. Harder to lose when always connected (Find My), too.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoThe problem has always been that old cellular infrastructure isn't designed for having multiple devices on a single line. That is changing with the Apple Watch (which requires such technology) - but it's also why Apple Watch is not available on almost any MVNOs.
- dave78 3y agoEvery Thinkpad I've bought in the past 15 years has had an integrated modem option. I don't travel much so I've never bought it, but it seems to be a common option for business laptops. I've definitely seen others using them.
- another_bear 3y agoThe Dell Latitude line has had them for at least 15 years now.
- dingi 3y agoThere are plenty of laptops with an optional integrated modem. Most of them are top of the line models like Thinkpads, Elitebooks, etc.
- wilsonnb3 3y agoI think some of the surface tablets have one, although they are technically not a laptop
- michaelt 3y ago> Have any manufacturers shipped a (modern) laptop with an integrated modem? Sure - just google "<vendor> 5G laptop" to find for example https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/5g-mobile-broadband?appliedRefinements=40846 https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/sr/laptops/5g-m... It's often found on business laptops given to service engineers and sales people, who spend a lot of time on the road.
- paxys 3y agoWith another mandatory $30/mo data plan I'm sure. You can already tether to your iPhone from the Mac with a single click, so I won't be running to buy this just yet.
- wlesieutre 3y agoYou could get 15GB for $20 on Mint, but I already don’t use up that data on my phone so
- paxys 3y ago15GB would last half a day on a non-mobile OS.
- wlesieutre 3y agoThere’s a low data mode which is supposed to prevent it from downloading unnecessary stuff until you’re on an unmetered connection, but I have no clue how well supported it is, especially by third party software
- shortrounddev2 3y agoDepends on what you do. When I'm out in public on my laptop, I'm not browsing the internet so much as I'm coding, and I only really use the internet to google things and use ChatGPT
- kalleboo 3y agoOn a desktop OS software is more likely to try to auto-update large software packages in the background (think auto-updating the 6 GB of Photoshop, 100 GB games in Steam...), whereas software on a smartphone OS is more aware of what is a "cheap" data connection or an expensive one. macOS does have this concept but I would be that most third-party software doesn't check.
- tambourine_man 3y agoThat’s the thing, besides the hardware, there would need to be a lot of work in the OS (and maybe apps to some extent). The assumption of unlimited data transfer is pervasive on non-mobile (we need a better name for that, something that encompasses desktop and laptop. PC?)
- gruturo 3y agoMy iPad connects to the internet quite seamlessly via bluetooth tethering through my iPhone, so I could cheap out and get the Wi-Fi model (and not pay for an additional monthly mobile plan). They could make this even more transparent and seamless, easily, why stick a piece of hardware instead? Because their investment in acquiring Intel's modem division is resulting in an uncompetitive product and they need an excuse to pretend to use it?
- thot_experiment 3y agoI've had a laptop with a cellular modem for almost 4 years now and there's zero chance I'm ever going back to a laptop without one. Maybe framework next time around, if my laptop had some GPIOs too!? Heaven.
- shortrounddev2 3y agoHow much do you pay for data with it? I also just tether to my Samsung and use my phone's data plan
- thot_experiment 3y agoa bit over $30/mo on tmo, real world speeds about 30mbit, 100 on a good day, unlimited data
- darknavi 3y agoGoogleFi provides data only sims for free that use the same pool of data from your "unlimited" plan.
- mdasen 3y ago> Users who exceed 50 GB of data usage (across all their devices) will have their data speeds slowed to 256 kbps for the remainder of their billing cycle, unless they opt out and choose to be charged for additional full speed data usage at $10 per GB. According to Google, it looks like that "unlimited" plan is 50 GB and then slowed to 256 kbps (basically useless). It isn't unlimited with lower priority after 50 GB. It's basically just limited to 50 GB given how useless 256 kbps is.
- jchw 3y agoIt is extremely sad how few laptops and mobile computers in general have modems. I'm hoping that Apple doing this in their laptops will push more PC laptop manufacturers to do it, since they have a penchant for copying Apple for some reason. P.S.: Dear Apple, please make sure the audio routing works too, so it can make phone calls. That's the part that people really need to copy.
- callalex 3y agoIt’s probably because most laptops are designed by North Americans, and cellular data is extremely expensive in North America.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoIt's also because having a modem isn't actually that useful. Wifi is way better than the cellular network in most cases.
- jchw 3y agoWiFi isn't available everywhere. Even when it is, it can be pretty unreliable or require you to enter information into sketchy captive portals. In general, for a mobile computer, mobile data is quite useful. If you only use your laptop at home, then it's not terribly useful. But then at that point you might be better off with a desktop computer.
- cameronh90 3y agoIn London, with few exceptions, the cellular connectivity is better than whatever horrendous WiFi your hotel/restaurant/train/etc. has. The only time WiFi is sometimes better is in cool underground bars and such where there’s no cellular signal whatsoever. Hell it’s better than most people’s home internet. My home internet is 1.1Gb/s at the wall, but once you factor in the WiFi in a dense urban environment with a brick wall house, I’m lucky if I get 150Mb/s. Meanwhile 5G from my bedroom easily clears 500Mb/s.
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- basisword 3y agoWhy do I want this? I can tether my phone already. Building in a modem just gives cell networks another chance to charge you for another data plan (when I already have unlimited on my phone). Am I missing something?
- goosedragons 3y agoYou might not want this but businesses might. Rather than have to reimburse an employee's phone or provide a phone they can provide a cellular equipped device for users that regularly work outside the office but still need internet support.
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- secondcoming 3y agoI got one when building my Dell Precision laptop and I regret it. - You have to unscrew the base to insert the SIM card. - You need a more expensive screen because that’s where the antennae are. - It’s 4G with no upgrade path to 5G. It works fine but tethering is just easier.
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- madeofpalk 3y ago> 2028 at the earliest That is a long way away. I wonder if this is them desperately trying to make use of their acquisition of Intel's 5G modem buisness, which still hasn't shown up in phones.
- CPLX 3y agoFinally!! See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36817890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36817890 With that said five years seems like a hell of a long time.
- nottorp 3y agoSo why would I pay extra to my cell phone provider when I can just tether to my existing phone?
- freedomben 3y agoThis is not a veiled insinuation against Apple. It's just a question/thought. With the modem being integrated into the SoC, it's not something that can be easily removed. Many IoT vendors and automakers have been adding modems and such that keep your device "always connected" and in a way that bypasses your home internet (where people can filter, log, block ads, etc). Is the possibility of future surveillance a concern for people?
- 3-cheese-sundae 3y agoThe cell modem is integrated into the SoC, but the antenna isn't. You might have to give up wifi and bluetooth if you cut that out, though.
- tantalor 3y agoYou mean even more than the phones we all carry around with us? If somebody wanted to know what you were doing on your MacBook, they would just attack your phone.
- emodendroket 3y agoI think probably for a lot of the audience here they may keep sensitive stuff off their phones or not use them for "serious" computing but looking around that's not really where the market is.
- wmf 3y agoCars are a problem but other IoT devices are not adding cellular because it costs a fortune. It's just a HN conspiracy theory.
- freedomben 3y agoDo you have any data on the costs? I can't find it now, but I remember seeing an estimate at around $5 per IoT device, which for some devices might double the cost but for others could easily pay for itself in delicious, nourishing data that can be used or sold for other things. I'd really love that number to be way lower than reality though.
- chromakode 3y agoI've always considered my phone getting charged while cable tethering to be a significant benefit.
- acdha 3y agoThis won’t prevent that but it does help in the opposite direction when you’re traveling and want to maximize your phone’s battery life.
- MichaelNolan 3y agoThere are a lot of comments saying “but you already have a phone”, but if they (Apple) came out with a laptop that had good cellular service, I might just get rid of my phone. (Or maybe replace it with a dumb phone)
- jauntywundrkind 3y agoMaybe they are targeting MacBooks as a warm up act? If the chip consumes 3x as much power as a competing chip, it's more likely people won't notice on a laptop than a cell phone. If signal isn't quite as good, again people might not notice. Only like 10% of these chips will ever get used at all, by anyone, if they are in laptops. Targeting laptops first seems like an obvious & lower risk choice.
- 11235813213455 3y agoI use my phone mostly for tethering internet, so being able to connect directly to 4G from the laptop or pass calls would be great for me (tho not on a mac)
- brailsafe 3y agoIt's crazy that the new one costs as much as it does and doesn't offer this already
- jlokier 3y agoI'll just say, I've had my laptop connecting to my phone on tethering 24x7 for years now, since before the pandemic, on a relatively low cost unlimited data contract. I use cellular for both my home and office internet connections, as well as when travelling. My Macbook knows to connect to my Android phone automatically. Latency isn't great, but everything else works pretty well. I've done a few remote jobs and contracts just fine since using this setup. All the usual daily video standups, meetings, Git, remote builds, etc. No other internet unless there's something convenient where I travel to. At home I terminated the ADSL I used previously, because its bandwidth was worse, usually, and I decided it wasn't worth the cost of the line. I miss the better latency though. At the office I tried to get ADSL (actually FTTC), but the providers were unable to offer above 17 Mbit/s despite being a town centre building, compared with 90 Mbit/s over cellular on a good day, so I stayed with cellular for the office too. Tethering is so automatic and convenient nowadays that I relate to the folks who don't see a point paying for a second cellular contract just for convenience. I never have my Macbook without my phone nearby, and connection is automatic. There are occasions when a large antenna might work better, though, if the laptop is well designed. Someone wrote an interesting point that phones get newer cellular standards more quickly than laptops in practice. This is surely true when using very expensive Macbooks! I can imagine having great cellular connectivity in a laptop when it's new, and five years later finding the same laptop communicates over tethering faster than natively. I've seen enormous variation in the bandwidth achieved by different devices already: ~90 Mbit/s on my last phone, vs ~18 Mbit/s on a dedicated 4G hotspot of the same era.
- michaelmrose 3y agoYou make a good point about cellular tech moving quickly especially given how long people keep laptops (5-7 years) vs phones (2-3). The average laptop will be paired with 2-3 phones. On the other hand antitheft or protection against loss is a useful add-on and a contract to enable it might cost apple little as it would see little use per unit.
- nxobject 3y agoTwo reactions: on one hand, it's nice that I don't have to tether and waste my phone battery – it's a good use of Apple putting things on-die; on the other hand, I don't need another source of tracking. Perhaps I'd err on the side of caution and disconnect the antenna.
- jbverschoor 3y agoFinally... personal hotspot is such a hit-or-miss
- gumby 3y agoGiven that Apple has struggled to get modems working (while avoiding qualcomm's patents) this is still pie in the sky, much as I would appreciate this. I have hotspot on my phone and it’s handy, but has some friction. Computer and ipad go into “limited data” mode when using it. Also, unlike my phone data, I am only given a finite allotment and when used up additional amounts are quite expensive (USA - AT&T). A couple of months ago I was on a trip and signed up for mobile service for my ipad, for these reasons. It is so much more convenient that I renewed the subscription. I’d do the same for my computer just for the low friction, if I can get an unlimited tariff like I have on my phone and watch.
- malux85 3y agoWhat about the thing that is in my iPhone and iPad, whatever that is, can’t they just use that?
- superb_dev 3y agoThat’s a Qualcomm modem, Apple wants to avoid dependence on Qualcomm
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- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoReally, this is long, long overdue. In most places data plans are cheap and the convenience is unparalleled (as you attest to).
- moralestapia 3y agoA high performant multi-core processor sounds like a much more difficult task, though, and they pulled it off flawlessly.
- pdx6 3y agoA built-in cell modem in Macbooks also means additional partnerships with telcos like with the iPhone, iPad, and Watch. Right now there's a clear line between a telco and an Apple laptop. With cell enabled devices, telcos can sell a lucrative "subsidy as a lock in" discount.
- russellbeattie 3y agoI've been living the #vanlife for the past year and though this would be great for my MacBook, cellular Hotspot data plan caps (50GB usually) will need to be updated. I actually have two SIMs/phones to serve as hotspots because of this. If Apple does launch this feature, I would bet it comes with some special carrier announcements as well. 5G is truly like living in the future, but there's nothing like forgetting to disconnect and having your Mac think it's on real WiFi and happily download some massive update in the background using up a sizeable chunk of data, leading to the dreaded over the limit text message. Same for Office, Chrome and a bunch of other stuff I've tried to track down, but something always seems to slip through. Here's a pro tip: Non-hotspot cellular data on AT&T is actually really unlimited without slowdown after 50GB, and doesn't contribute to the hotspot data cap. My 5G Samsung can cast its screen to laptops or a Samsung tablet (which I also have). I thus realized when I'm streaming movies at night, I can just do it on my phone using cellular data and cast the result to the larger tablet screen in full HD (like you can to a TV) and not worry about the data caps. (BTW, there are Android hacks which try to get around the carrier hotspot flag/detection to avoid the caps, but the carriers seem to be packet sniffing so they don't really work.)
- garrickvanburen 3y agofinally.
- amelius 3y agoMaking a CPU from scratch turned out to be much easier than making a cellular modem from scratch.
- arcticbull 3y agoApple acquired the team who made their in-house chips, PA Semi, back in 2008! Took quite a while to get good enough at it to go toe to toe with Intel and AMD. Even though they were able to license cores and designs. [edit] Similarly, they acquired the modem business from Intel in 2019 (along with 2200 employees) so 'from scratch' may be a touch strong. [1] [1] https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/25/8909671/apple-intel-5g-smartphone-modems-acquisition https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/25/8909671/apple-intel-5g-sm...
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- poulsbohemian 3y agoEssentially everything in my home and office is an Apple product, but it is rather surreal that this isn't already a baked-in option on Apple laptops in the year of our lord 2023. I think an employer first handed me a mobile plug-in card for my laptop in about 2007, which worked surprisingly really well given the technology of that long-ago era. Given that this is a company that is one of the dominant players in phones and that they long ago put the same technology in iPads, it just seems like a huge oversight.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoIt is not an oversight, it is a hard technical problem if they want to avoid paying Qualcomm. Which is not worth the cost right now because most people have wifi or phones they can tether to. Maybe in 10 or 15 years when Qualcomm patents expire, it will be cheap enough to add as a feature.
- ramses0 3y agoJust make a huge PCMCIA-slot on the side of the laptop that you can slide your iPhone into!! /s
- pxeger1 3y agoNot exactly related, but who is Mark Gurman, and how does he have access to all the information he leaks? High-level Apple exec, or assistant, or sysadmin? Or a puppet of Apple’s marketing department?
- whycome 3y agoHow long until Apple buys T-Mobile? or Verizon. edit: i really think the only thing is perhaps monopoly or anti-trust questions. it just makes so much long-term sense. free streaming of apple music. an even more robust find-my network. free cloud backup. or maybe they'll just use all the interconnected devices to make some sort of p2p cell network.
- brailsafe 3y agoThe reason I want this so much is so that I can leave my phone at home. If there's a reason to have Internet access, there's reason to have zero phone access.
- aareet 3y agoI'm very excited for this. Does anyone remember the Sony Vaio P series of laptops that had this capability? You had to insert those huge cellular adapters. It was such a dream of portability well ahead of its time.
- wkat4242 3y agoDo you still call with your phone though? I rarely do anymore. Everyone I know calls me on telegram or WhatsApp. And from 4G onwards phone calls are simply voice over IP too so why not. It's the same thing.
- TMWNN 3y agoI have two free unlimited lines going unused.[1] It would be great if, once these MacBooks are available (hopefully sooner than 2028), I will be able to put one of those lines to use in one. [1] Sprint/T-Mobile free line offers in 2020 and 2023