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A map of ATMs designed to scam tourists in Europe
- abrookewood 3y agoFor those (like me) who had never heard of these ATMS: https://www.smh.com.au/traveller/reviews-and-advice/euronet-the-overseas-atms-offering-terrible-exchange-rates-and-charging-huge-commissions-20221020-h279lb.html https://www.smh.com.au/traveller/reviews-and-advice/euronet-...
- FearNotDaniel 3y ago> In Europe, they usually have certain retail stores (e.g. Spar) By this logic, every town in Austria, big or small, is an "ugly mass tourism place." It's one of the leading supermarket chains here, and better quality than most of its competitors. Obviously not so in the Netherlands, or the author wouldn't have thought that the brand can only signify cheap/ripoff. But I understand what it signifies in Mallorca in particular: not just a tourist town, but a tourist town with mostly German-speaking visitors. Drive to the next beach town, where English tourists go, and the fake Spar/Billa beachfront stores will be replaced by fake Tesco/Sainsburys stores. None of them have any affiliation with the actual brands from the tourists' home countries.
- alphabettsy 3y agoDoes the proximity of a Hard Rock Cafe count?
- dumpsterlid 3y ago[dead]
- keiferski 3y agoNot necessarily. There is a Hard Rock Cafe right next to the main train station and major mall in Warsaw, and I wouldn't call that mall touristic. It's just a nice mall, as far as malls go.
- Symbiote 3y agoI think Hard Rock Cafe exists to keep those tourists away from the other places. (Though I've only been in one once, when my friend's band played a gig.)
- Tade0 3y agoConsidering it was the first such place in Poland, it's sort of a tourist trap in and of itself. Or was. Never been there, because 25PLN for a beer was an outrageous sum at the time.
- shortcake27 3y agoThere’s a Hard Rock cafe in Wrocław charging 2x the price of every other restaurant. From memory 70PLN for a burger. And yet it’s always full. I genuinely don’t understand.
- brnt 3y agoMany tourist are really scared of trying something they don't know.
- keiferski 3y agoSure, but I wouldn’t call the area an ugly mass tourism zone. That would be more the Old Town.
- Tijdreiziger 3y agoAs a tourist who has been to said mall, it is a pretty damn nice mall, maybe the nicest I've been to. (I didn't go to the mall for touristic reasons, I just wanted to grab a bite after arriving in Warsaw by train.)
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoSeattle had a Hard Rock Cafe for a couple of decades. I never saw anyone go there before, seems like most of the tourists just stand in line waiting to visit the first Starbucks.
- latchkey 3y agoThe Hard Rock Cafe in Saigon, before it closed down, was actually kind of fun (where else would you hear a live Rock coverband in Vietnam?) and the food was decent.
- alephnerd 3y ago> where else would you hear a live Rock coverband in Vietnam Acoustic Bar and Yoko Cafe in D3
- latchkey 3y agoSo that’s where they ended up?
- alephnerd 3y agoMaybe? I was never in Saigon when the Hard Rock Cafe was around. That said, D3 has an amazing arts and culture scene. Lots of hip cafes, art shows, and popups. Plus, because of the large Viet Kieu community back in California, a lot of cultural interchange occurs between the two.
- latchkey 3y agoD3 is the locals "wealthy" area going back to post war days. Many homes there were gifted by the government as a reward. It is indeed a really nice part of town. My partners family lives on Tu Xuong street.
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- paxys 3y agohttps://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/
- Throwfi44 3y agoNot best approach, some places are empty outside of narrow tourist season.
- MarkusWandel 3y agoGoogle Street View? A few years ago I saw a social media shared pic of sunrise at Angkor Wat. It was beautiful, these splendid, isolated ruins, peaceful in the sunrise. Being curious about the area, I found the exact spot in Street View. Sunrise even. But then turned around 180 degrees. To find an absolute wall of photographers all capturing the same scene. I can't find that scene now though. But frequently these social media brags are very carefully chosen angles - why not, I do the same thing, minus the social media posting - and in Street View all you have to do is change view angle slightly to see the busy street, the commercial clutter etc.
- tayo42 3y agoEveryone takes the same photo there. the temples with the reflection in still water. all the tour guides take you the same place for the sun rise. angkor wat isnt some off the beaten path temple though. its like the only thing to do in siem reap, its gotta be cambodias biggest tourist attraction besides misery tourism in phnom penh.
- desertrider12 3y agoAngkor Wat isn't the only temple around Siem Reap, though. I agree that standing around with hundreds of people waiting for the sun to come up, then all crowding inside at the same time isn't the best experience. But on that same day, other temples in the area (Pre Rup, Neak Pean and Banteay Srei) had at most one other small group there. And really they're almost as impressive in their own ways - Neak Pean is small but has a beautiful reflecting pool surrounding the central structure. Same thing in Egypt too. Great pyramids are extremely crowded and you're constantly getting hassled by people selling crap. But at the less famous Dahshur area, or the less accessible Philae/Abu Simbel temples, nobody else was there and we could appreciate them in peace. For that it helped to go in the summer (low) season too.
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- kzrdude 3y agoTourism if anything needs a way to point more people towards the long tail, not to crowd at the top.
- Karellen 3y agoHow do you stop the cycle of places in the long tail from becoming "go-to" destinations because they're in the long tail, having all the local flavour diluted from catering to the tourism, before being fully gentrified into identikit tourist traps, and being abandoned once they're "at the top" with their original local businesses gone, and trying to cater to the tourists who've all vanished? While those tourists are in search of the finding the next popularity-rising hotspot before the same thing happens to that? Maybe "tourism" is the problem?
- nihonthrowaway 3y ago[dead]
- yorwba 3y agoIf you pick from the long tail at random, you're unlikely to encounter many other tourists. The "go-to" destination problem really only happens if you outsource the long-tail mining to some centralized source (e.g. popular social media posts) that ends up sending many people to the same place.
- madaxe_again 3y agoOr just pick places which are an utter pain in the arse to get to - days of surface travel by 4x4, foot, boat, ski, or canoe. Makes for far more interesting stories, too. I ended up living in one of said “I’ve heard of it but I’ve never been” places. It’s lovely. Pain in the ass to get anywhere, but if I don’t want to see people, I don’t, and those that I do see I usually chat with over a pitchfork, and walk away with a gifted sack of produce.
- evrimoztamur 3y agoThese ATMs are plenty useful for contributing to the local money laundering industry. More signals are unlisted prices, fading storefronts, fluorescent lights. Read more about what’s happening in London https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/oxford-street-candy-shop-investigation-b1082733.html https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/oxford-street-candy-sho... It’s not about scamming tourists at its core, it’s about avoiding electronic banking networks and pulling cash back into the system. Disclaimer: Amsterdammer…
- anotheruser13 3y agoI've found it's best to go to a bank or post office and use the ATM there, rather than those generic "Bankomat" machines.
- philwelch 3y ago> It’s not about scamming tourists at its core, it’s about avoiding electronic banking networks and pulling cash back into the system. You make it sound like a good thing.
- tim333 3y agoA lot of the London candy store thing is about not paying the very expensive business rates to the council. They are all owned by foreign controlled companies which just go bust come enforcement time. They are not much of a guide to bad areas, for example American Candyland (bad) is opposite Selfridges (popular). Streetview: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.514156,-0.1516145,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLpbylJb7PuYtoMuAZMAs0Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.514156,-0.1516145,3a,75y,1...
- coldtea 3y ago>it’s about avoiding electronic banking networks and pulling cash back into the system So it's beneficial to society!
- lxgr 3y agoWhat exactly is the supposed connection between these specific ATMs and money laundering? Nothing in the referenced article mentions ATMs.
- NautilusWave 3y agoDoes it have a Ripley's Believe It or Not! museum?
- cedilla 3y agoEuronet ATMs being a scam is a very americentric view. The world is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist. Very evident with this map that just appears to be a differently labeled population heat map.
- crazygringo 3y ago> The world is not /primarily/ designed to rip off tourist. In my experiences with traveling to a great number of countries and cities... yes, it pretty much is. Taking any kind of "easiest path" tourism is basically full of rip-offs in every hotel, restaurant, and tour, no matter where you are. It takes effort to plan a genuinely enjoyable trip full of rich experiences that isn't ripping you off. Also, it doesn't seem to be a population map at all -- that distribution is quite different: https://www.mdpi.com/land/land-02-00252/article_deploy/html/images/land-02-00252-g006-1024.png https://www.mdpi.com/land/land-02-00252/article_deploy/html/...
- fl7305 3y agoIf you do happen to end up in a tourist trap location and are looking for a good lunch restaurant, pick one where the local construction workers and police go to eat.
- Leherenn 3y agoDoes it actually work? My experience in Europe (well a few places at least) is that most blue collar workers don't eat lunch in a restaurant, it's way too expansive (and time consuming). They either pack it from home, go to the local grocery/convenience store or maybe hit a fast food place/cheap take away. It might work better in cultures with a more developed eat-out culture like in Asia.
- llamaInSouth 3y agoaround here the police tend to go in restaurants I like (atlanta)
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- sails 3y agoHaving lived in Palma I can confirm that this is indeed a decent way to avoid the two nightmare tourist areas (and not just a population density, as the central Palma area would be larger). I like this idea for proxy maps. Do the same for London with American candy stores
- jl6 3y agoBut the candy stores are in some popular places that are otherwise interesting to visit. Same as Angus Steakhouses. The winning move is to look at the sights but bring a packed lunch.
- CPLX 3y agoJust type “wax museum” into Google Maps.
- martopix 3y agoI had a wonderful trip in Thailand last year by doing two things: 1. roadtripping: I rented a motorcycle and chose a (relatively touristy) destination, but enjoyed the trip to get there over several days, during which I designed my own itinerary and stopped to look at the countriside and visit small towns. 2. I designed the itinerary while avoiding Lonely Planet and the like. By now everybody uses that and goes to the same places. Instead, to my surprise, I found that Google Maps makes a great guide. You can click on any places around an area, and see how they look like, whether they have hotels and cafés, if that temple over there is worth a look, if the view along that road is nice. For ANY town.
- al_borland 3y agoI was helping my sister plan a trip recently and she asked how I was finding all these places to check out. I told her I just randomly pan around Google Maps and click stuff. She thought I had some super secret travel sites.
- kurthr 3y agoYeah, strangely google (and more local tools like Openrice or Tabelog) is much better for finding good spots. Locals are more discerning, but if you don't speak the local language it can get difficult. Travelocity is almost the opposite since ratings are almost directly proportional to the ability to interact with (English speaking) foreigners.
- vachina 3y agoHmmm yeah. Google Travel used to provide very useful n-days itinerary on a city level, where it plans out, and shows on a map, the most efficient way to visit a city. That feature seems to have been nuked and I’m sad.
- dylan604 3y agoIf you see it in a TikTok/Insta feed, it's over crowded. Although, if you're like me that doesn't use the socials, it's hard to check
- paganel 3y agoThe same goes for simple enough web searches like "what are the most beautiful 10 beaches in [Mediterranean country/province]?". Surprisingly enough there are other people who still know how to web-search, hence why those places are crowded even at the end of the holiday season. I became aware of that basic fact this past September, while visiting the Peloponnese.
- hfh66 3y agoUse insta location tags and check what the top posts are for that spot. If they are all influncer posts then skip it.
- Freak_NL 3y agoThe mention of the presence of a Spar supermarket in Europe being a marker for overtouristed areas seems oddly area specific. In most European countries which have them these are bog-standard supermarkets.
- lopis 3y agoMaybe I'm wrong but that's probably only true in DACH and maybe a couple other1 surrounding places. Outside that sphere, the rule does seem to apply that Spar is a mass tourist smell.
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y agoIn .D(e) SPAR is dead. What can be seen labeled as SPAR, or Spar-Express, 'to go', or whatever, is operated by Edeka and is indeed catering to so called 'captive audiences' in airports, railway-/subway-/metro stations, little kiosks on platforms, gas-/fuel stations, and some larger locations in some downtowns, whose independent owners couldn't be bothered to 'reflag/relabel'. With the exception of the latter, they all have one thing in common: huge prices for common crap.
- spacechild1 3y agoIn Austria, Spar is one of the two major supermarket chains. (The other one is Billa.)
- Sharlin 3y agoDACH = Germany, Austria, Switzerland
- entropyie 3y agoThey are absolutely everywhere in Ireland, from countryside to city centre, rich and poor areas.
- pmckenna 3y agoWas going to say the same thing. There’s zero correlation between touristy spots and Spar in Ireland, unless East Wall has suddenly become a tourist hot spot without me hearing about it
- Ekaros 3y agoI have wondered is there actually anything wrong with mass tourism? Wouldn't properly build for tourism destinations actually be overall better option? As long as they do not become over relied on. At least if we must have tourism and do not ban it altogether... Mass tourism would allow optimization for environment and not to destroy areas that people actually work and live in. See the AirBnB effect for example. And in general the drug use and noise caused by them...
- steve1977 3y agoMobility is bad for the environment to start with. Mobility for hedonistic reasons therefore can only be worse.
- timeon 3y agoI think topic here is more about personal preference than something like environmental concerns.
- lm28469 3y agoThe thing is if you have to take the plane to get there you're already a major net negative for the environment, and that would get rid of most mass tourism places We should live like our grandparents, a few (if any) big trips in your lifetime, everything else: in your country or close neighboring ones.
- philwelch 3y agoIf you really want to reduce your carbon emissions you can start smoking, that will cut years off your life expectancy and, as a consequence, your lifetime carbon emissions.
- denton-scratch 3y agoAs a heavy smoker, I rather like that excuse.
- rgmerk 3y agoEver visited a proper tourist trap? They’re awful places no sane adult would ever spend time in. They exist for people who don’t want to actually experience anything unfamiliar when they travel.
- thinkingemote 3y agoThese types of maps just show where people/tourists are which render them not that useful. It needs to be proportionate and comparative. E.g. normalised against daytime population, number of shops, restaurants or hotels so you can compare which similar areas do have more ATMs compared to other less "ugly" areas. Comparing them against published population maps wont work because 1) those show where locals live 2) not where people go for entertainment and 3) tourists and hotels are not counted as population. Now, it will work if the aim is to go to quiet places with only locals and not much points of interest - I've tried this as a tourist strategy and ended up in an area surrounded by residential tower blocks and one basic cafe and a shop underneath.
- varjag 3y agoRight it's more like "destinations interesting to tourists have tourist traps". E.g. Inca on the map in the tweet is certainly a locals town but it's also hardly anything to see or do there.
- anjel 3y agoIf you publish a map or any means of sidestepping BIGTourism you will also surely bespoil the untainted.
- nihonthrowaway 3y agoFor London: A map of mosques that don't allow women is a good contra indicator.
- contingencies 3y agoExpensive hotels, airport, American or pizza restaurants, guidebook with >3 editions, supermarkets instead of traditional markets, construction right up to the waterline, a 'bar street', a dense cluster of backpacker hostels, open drug dealing, monopoly lockdown on connecting transport (flight/bus/boat company), tourist behavior making international news, existence of mass-market souvenirs, a 'tourist police' department, dance clubs, high end ice cream chain stores.
- lm28469 3y agoSearch the place on Instagram and if it has more than a few thousand tags you're about to enter hell Some people seem to love being handled like cattle though
- bradleyjg 3y agoGo on tinder. If you swipe through 100 profiles and see a place more than once, avoid it like the plague. Probably him/her too.
- styluss 3y agoYou can look at Google Maps' "Popular Times"
- forthwall 3y agoFor me a good sign of a mass tourism area is where there’s people in front of restaurants asking people to step in to eat
- coldtea 3y agoIf you visit them they'll become "ugly mass tourism places". Better to not identify them and stay at your area, unless absolutely necessary (i.e. not for tourism).
- cat_plus_plus 3y agoA bit elitist? "Ugly mass tourism places" are there because weather is good, location is convenient, one of a kind landmarks, it's easy to get food and supplies for the whole family and so on. Yes, it's going to be expensive and not super authentic. But not everyone can take a month off to live like a local. If I only have one day cruise ship stop in Mallorca and I have to pay 60 euro fee to get cash, it's still preferable to missing out on a nice dinner or something to take home to remember the trip.
- vbeeaz 3y agoThe subtext here is that some people hate it when the poor can enjoy things. I know it sounds like a joke and that it's hard to believe, but that's what's happening.
- Sharlin 3y agoHuh? It's the less wealthy in particular who benefit the most from choosing paths less traveled, finding places to eat where the food doesn't carry a 2x or 3x tourist markup and the ATMs are not rigged to scam you. Often these paths are literally a quarter hour away from the worst tourist traps.
- TeMPOraL 3y agoTo be fair, being at the profiting end of those traps is one of the ways in which, as GP put it, "the poor can enjoy things".
- rgmerk 3y agoThe point of tourist traps is that you’re not poor when you enter the trap, but you’re poor afterwards.
- pempem 3y agoWhich part is elitist? The description or suggesting that paying 60euro for cash is acceptable? Wild.
- jl6 3y agoIt’s hard to find counterexamples to “safe, interesting, cheap: pick two.”
- oriettaxx 3y agoI guess the scam is related to euronet commissions, isn't? is case what is an typical commission for Euronet ATM?
- oriettaxx 3y agofound some info in https://www.monito.com/en/wiki/euronet-atm-charges-and-fees#what-is-euronet https://www.monito.com/en/wiki/euronet-atm-charges-and-fees#... What is Euronet? Euronet Worldwide is an American-headquartered worldwide provider of electronic payment services. It operates the largest independent ATM network in Europe and owns a total of almost 46,000 ATMs around the world. Euronet’s high ATM fees and exchange rates have regularly been criticised, but the company has frequently defended itself, saying that such fees are necessary to cover ATM running costs and the convenience that these machines provide. However, considering that many of Euronet’s ATMs can be found in locations such as airports and supermarkets – where if you need cash fast, there’s little other choice – you could argue that Euronet has found an easy way to generate additional income. and Euronet ATMs charge high fees that can quickly catch you out. Here’s what you need to know: Euronet ATM withdrawal fees vary from €1.95 to €4.99 dynamic currency conversions (DCCs) can stack up to 13% of the total amount, you'll find Euronet ATMs in tourist locations (e.g. airports, shopping centres, busy streets, etc.), we recommend avoiding Euronet ATMs wherever possible.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- thealistra 3y agoMost Polish people have free ATM withdrawals from Euronet per their bank account agreement. In Poland it is probably the most popular ATM chain. Where there’s a lot of ATMs there’s a lot of people - not specifically tourists. This article is weird about assuming that.
- gpvos 3y agoNon-Poles pay through their nose at the same ATMs though. So I would think there's an incentive to place them at places with lots of tourists, which is where I find them; but then that's mostly where I have been in Poland.
- none_to_remain 3y agoI caught onto to this scam at an airport ATM in Poland 6-7 years ago. The hard sell definitely flagged it to me - it said something about how the ATM could guarantee their conversion rate but if I had my bank handle the exchange the ATM had no idea what I would get, could be much much worse. I googled the nominal exchange rate and decided I would take my chances with the bank, which was the correct decision. What I thought was crazy is that back then, and now, with a few minutes' looking I couldn't find the rate the bank would give me.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoPaypal has this same scam going, but they charge up 6% plus and you'll still get the 3% FTF from your card company.
- AussieWog93 3y agoI do a lot of PayPal stuff and this isn't true. You only get charged their fee (closer to 2-3% for AUD-CNY and AUD-USD) when converting your balance from one currency to another. If your card gets charged in a foreign currency, the bank takes a few but PayPal won't.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoI'm talking about using your credit cards through PP, especially the PP branded Mastercard.
- advisedwang 3y agoMost banks just let visa/mastercard do the exchange and maybe tac on a % fee. So the bank doesn't list an exchange rate because they don't maintain one. So find out in advance if your bank adds a fee and then check Visa [1] or mastercard [2] when you actually need to work it out. [1] https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchang... [2] https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert...