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If the reports are true, and Ilya led the coup, then either him or Sam can be at OpenAI going forward but not both. The rest of the board members who sided with

If the reports are true, and Ilya led the coup, then either him or Sam can be at OpenAI going forward but not both. The rest of the board members who sided with him are gone either way. Regardless of who ends up at the helm, OpenAI is going to be a different place on Monday than it was on Thursday, and not for the better.

startupsfail 3y ago
A typical YC execution of a product/pump/hype/VC/scale cycle and ignoring every ethical rule is a good way to start. And is a reasonable way to lift up a nonprofit on a path to AGI, but hardly a good way to govern a company that builds AGI/ASI technology in the long term.
no_wizard 3y ago
Not for the better why? Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI and investors aren’t even saying what the problem is. Clearly the board feels he was the wrong person for the job. I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble. Let this play out and see how it evolves
- wilg 3y ago
  I think most people don’t think it was obvious Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  24 hours ago OpenAI fired their CEO in the most childish possible way. Now they are trying to get him back. This is embarassing for OpenAI no matter how you slice it.
  - x86x87 3y ago
    While the unceremonious firing was bad I am sure this could have gone down way worse than this. Way way worse.
    - maxlamb 3y ago
      How?
      - x86x87 3y ago
        off the top of my head: prolonged public exchange between sama and the board _before_ any firings where they throw accusations at each other followed by microsoft pulling out, followed by people quitting and immediately resulting in a chatgpt outage. followed by the firing of the ceo
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - shapefrog 3y ago
        Could have done it with poop emojis on twitter
    - okdood64 3y ago
      > unceremonious firing What's a ceremonious firing look like? Serious question.
      - paulmd 3y ago
        compare raja koduri to brian krzanich the former went on garden leave for 6 months (actually even before the Vega launch) to make a movie with his brother, and then resigned to “spend more time with his family”, before popping up again a month later at intel. That’s what it looks like when they want you to go away but they don’t want to make a big scene over it. the latter fucked up so badly the board found a reason to kick him out without a golden parachute etc, despite the official reason (dating another employee) being something that was widely known for years, other than being a technical no-no/bad idea in general. he wasn’t kicked out because of that, he was kicked out for the combination of endless fab woes, spectre/meltdown, and bad business/product decisions that let AMD get the traction to become a serious competitor again. That’s what it looks like when the board is absolutely furious and pushes whatever buttons inflict the most pain on you. Ironic that it’s a bit of an auto-antonym (auto-antoidiom?), it’s ceremonious when they want you to go away quietly and it’s unceremonious when they publicly kick your ass to the curb so hard you’ve got boot marks for a week.
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  It's not only Sam, also Greg and a few other engineers have already resigned (and one can assume more to follow)
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Maybe, or maybe he was in fact unpopular among the majority and you are seeing Altman supporters leave. It happens. There is nothing to indicate that this bleeds OpenAI more generally. The rank and file aren’t as fire as I’m aware aren’t resigning en masse. Executives come and go. Show me why these people matter so much that OpenAI has no future then we can talk. It’s in fighting that became public and I’m certain people are pulling whatever strings they have on this, but I don’t see objective evidence that these people make OpenAI successful. This needs to play out
    - mupuff1234 3y ago
      Rank and file perhaps aren't yet resigning en masse, but I would be extremely surprised if there won't be a bunch that jumps to the new ship solely because that puts them higher up the totem pole. Now will that be another 3 or another 30, time will tell.
  - zer0c00ler 3y ago
    Three engineers isn’t a lot honestly after such a stunt. I’d assumed there would more loyal folks, but maybe most are really in for the mission. The next couple of weeks will tell.
    - lumost 3y ago
      Bear in mind - most folks are loyal to a paycheck and their best estimate of future paychecks/value. Spot witting because your friend/boss got fired wrongly… is unlikely to maximize either of those unless you were already planning to resign in the next few weeks. Now, do a bunch of Openai peeps interview at Meta/Google/Amazon/Anthropic/Cohere over the next few months? Certainly.
- karmasimida 3y ago
  Not like the board, except Ilya has some real capital or expertise to convince everyone this is the right decision. If they do, it is the perfect time to speak out loud, not letting this news bubbling up to the front page and everyone is talking about how disastrous they were? What is this board waiting then? The weekend?? The board isn’t bullet proof and they are not god. They can fire Sam yes, it won’t stopping people thinking this is stupid or this won’t do more harm than good to OpenAI
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Perhaps they are smoothing things out with some key stakeholders after the fact, and will have more to say Monday regarding all this. I doubt they aren’t now doing some amount of information level setting with people now that the decision was made
- bnralt 3y ago
  > Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI It's quite possible that he wasn't the best fit, and that the board is an even worse fit. Judging by the behavior of the board, it's hard to see them being a good fit for the company.
  - no_wizard 3y ago
    Based on the firing? Because that’s all I think we (the public) have any insight into. I’m saying there is a reason this happened and 2/3 the board agreed. It needs to play out further for us to see if there is a problem here or not, honestly. I find it hard to believe you can effectively muster a mandate worth of votes based on opinion alone
    - lumost 3y ago
      As others have pointed out, this board has no skin in the game. They just voted out founders who do have skin in the game (although through roundabout means). It’s a very tough sell that this board is doing the right thing.
      - rirarobo 3y ago
        Just to clarify, one founder on the board, Ilya, has skin in the game, and was the reason behind Sam's firing. He convinced other members of the board that Sam was not the right person for their mission. The original statement implies that Ilya expected Greg to stay at OpenAI, but Ilya seems to have miscalculated his backing. This appears to be a power struggle between the original nonprofit vision of Ilya, and Sam's strategy to accelerate productionization and attract more powerful actors and investors. https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255 https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255
      - no_wizard 3y ago
        Founders come and go. Doesn’t always make them a good. he wasn’t the sole founder either, it was founded by a consortium of people
- qwytw 3y ago
  > I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble Even if we assume that's true, wouldn't the somewhat incompetent and seemingly unnecessarily dramatic way they handled not be a concerning sign?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jfoster 3y ago
  Perhaps part of the problem is that when some people say OpenAI they mean the non-profit parent of the for-profit, and when other people say OpenAI they mean the for-profit subsidiary of the non-profit.
- ergocoder 3y ago
  They accused Sam of lying in a public statement when they don't have an evidence to back it up. Those 4 people are not fit to run any company. Not a single person asked: well hey what if somebody asks for an evidence of lying? Do we have one?
  - Keyframe 3y ago
    We don't know any of that. Only things we know are statement from the board and statement from Altman that he was caught by surprise and statement from Microsoft they're supporting new CEO and few of the people that left. That's all we know for sure. Everything else are rumors and PR spins for now. If they have some evidence of what they said in statement about lying we just don't know.
    - ergocoder 3y ago
      The board can easily back up their public claim. They don't. Even the email to their own employees says it is a irreconcilable difference. Nothing about lying. I don't think it is reasonable to go with "we don't know". It is more like: "it is crucial to back up your claim. Still, you don't.".
      - Keyframe 3y ago
        I don't disagree. It's just maybe they have something they haven't shared or maybe they don't. We don't know (yet).
        ergocoder 3y ago
        The fact that they didn't follow up with evidence immediately shows that they are incompetent. You don't just accuse someone of committing a heinous crime and stay silent. What is the detail?
        Keyframe 3y ago
        True, but are they obliged to provide all details to the public?
- wesleywt 3y ago
  Why did the board fire Sam in such a weird way? It shows that they are the wrong people for the job. If they wanted to get rid of him they should have done a better job than alienating everyone at the company.

startupsfail 3y ago

A typical YC execution of a product/pump/hype/VC/scale cycle and ignoring every ethical rule is a good way to start. And is a reasonable way to lift up a nonprofit on a path to AGI, but hardly a good way to govern a company that builds AGI/ASI technology in the long term.

no_wizard 3y ago

Not for the better why? Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI and investors aren’t even saying what the problem is. Clearly the board feels he was the wrong person for the job. I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble. Let this play out and see how it evolves

wilg 3y ago
I think most people don’t think it was obvious Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
sebzim4500 3y ago
24 hours ago OpenAI fired their CEO in the most childish possible way. Now they are trying to get him back. This is embarassing for OpenAI no matter how you slice it.
- x86x87 3y ago
  While the unceremonious firing was bad I am sure this could have gone down way worse than this. Way way worse.
  - maxlamb 3y ago
    How?
    - x86x87 3y ago
      off the top of my head: prolonged public exchange between sama and the board _before_ any firings where they throw accusations at each other followed by microsoft pulling out, followed by people quitting and immediately resulting in a chatgpt outage. followed by the firing of the ceo
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - shapefrog 3y ago
      Could have done it with poop emojis on twitter
  - okdood64 3y ago
    > unceremonious firing What's a ceremonious firing look like? Serious question.
    - paulmd 3y ago
      compare raja koduri to brian krzanich the former went on garden leave for 6 months (actually even before the Vega launch) to make a movie with his brother, and then resigned to “spend more time with his family”, before popping up again a month later at intel. That’s what it looks like when they want you to go away but they don’t want to make a big scene over it. the latter fucked up so badly the board found a reason to kick him out without a golden parachute etc, despite the official reason (dating another employee) being something that was widely known for years, other than being a technical no-no/bad idea in general. he wasn’t kicked out because of that, he was kicked out for the combination of endless fab woes, spectre/meltdown, and bad business/product decisions that let AMD get the traction to become a serious competitor again. That’s what it looks like when the board is absolutely furious and pushes whatever buttons inflict the most pain on you. Ironic that it’s a bit of an auto-antonym (auto-antoidiom?), it’s ceremonious when they want you to go away quietly and it’s unceremonious when they publicly kick your ass to the curb so hard you’ve got boot marks for a week.
mupuff1234 3y ago
It's not only Sam, also Greg and a few other engineers have already resigned (and one can assume more to follow)
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Maybe, or maybe he was in fact unpopular among the majority and you are seeing Altman supporters leave. It happens. There is nothing to indicate that this bleeds OpenAI more generally. The rank and file aren’t as fire as I’m aware aren’t resigning en masse. Executives come and go. Show me why these people matter so much that OpenAI has no future then we can talk. It’s in fighting that became public and I’m certain people are pulling whatever strings they have on this, but I don’t see objective evidence that these people make OpenAI successful. This needs to play out
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    Rank and file perhaps aren't yet resigning en masse, but I would be extremely surprised if there won't be a bunch that jumps to the new ship solely because that puts them higher up the totem pole. Now will that be another 3 or another 30, time will tell.
- zer0c00ler 3y ago
  Three engineers isn’t a lot honestly after such a stunt. I’d assumed there would more loyal folks, but maybe most are really in for the mission. The next couple of weeks will tell.
  - lumost 3y ago
    Bear in mind - most folks are loyal to a paycheck and their best estimate of future paychecks/value. Spot witting because your friend/boss got fired wrongly… is unlikely to maximize either of those unless you were already planning to resign in the next few weeks. Now, do a bunch of Openai peeps interview at Meta/Google/Amazon/Anthropic/Cohere over the next few months? Certainly.
karmasimida 3y ago
Not like the board, except Ilya has some real capital or expertise to convince everyone this is the right decision. If they do, it is the perfect time to speak out loud, not letting this news bubbling up to the front page and everyone is talking about how disastrous they were? What is this board waiting then? The weekend?? The board isn’t bullet proof and they are not god. They can fire Sam yes, it won’t stopping people thinking this is stupid or this won’t do more harm than good to OpenAI
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Perhaps they are smoothing things out with some key stakeholders after the fact, and will have more to say Monday regarding all this. I doubt they aren’t now doing some amount of information level setting with people now that the decision was made
bnralt 3y ago
> Obviously Sam wasn’t the best fit for OpenAI It's quite possible that he wasn't the best fit, and that the board is an even worse fit. Judging by the behavior of the board, it's hard to see them being a good fit for the company.
- no_wizard 3y ago
  Based on the firing? Because that’s all I think we (the public) have any insight into. I’m saying there is a reason this happened and 2/3 the board agreed. It needs to play out further for us to see if there is a problem here or not, honestly. I find it hard to believe you can effectively muster a mandate worth of votes based on opinion alone
  - lumost 3y ago
    As others have pointed out, this board has no skin in the game. They just voted out founders who do have skin in the game (although through roundabout means). It’s a very tough sell that this board is doing the right thing.
    - rirarobo 3y ago
      Just to clarify, one founder on the board, Ilya, has skin in the game, and was the reason behind Sam's firing. He convinced other members of the board that Sam was not the right person for their mission. The original statement implies that Ilya expected Greg to stay at OpenAI, but Ilya seems to have miscalculated his backing. This appears to be a power struggle between the original nonprofit vision of Ilya, and Sam's strategy to accelerate productionization and attract more powerful actors and investors. https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255 https://nitter.net/GaryMarcus/status/1725707548106580255
    - no_wizard 3y ago
      Founders come and go. Doesn’t always make them a good. he wasn’t the sole founder either, it was founded by a consortium of people
qwytw 3y ago
> I think it’s ridiculous that everything thinks that Sam being outed means OpenAI is in trouble Even if we assume that's true, wouldn't the somewhat incompetent and seemingly unnecessarily dramatic way they handled not be a concerning sign?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jfoster 3y ago
Perhaps part of the problem is that when some people say OpenAI they mean the non-profit parent of the for-profit, and when other people say OpenAI they mean the for-profit subsidiary of the non-profit.
ergocoder 3y ago
They accused Sam of lying in a public statement when they don't have an evidence to back it up. Those 4 people are not fit to run any company. Not a single person asked: well hey what if somebody asks for an evidence of lying? Do we have one?
- Keyframe 3y ago
  We don't know any of that. Only things we know are statement from the board and statement from Altman that he was caught by surprise and statement from Microsoft they're supporting new CEO and few of the people that left. That's all we know for sure. Everything else are rumors and PR spins for now. If they have some evidence of what they said in statement about lying we just don't know.
  - ergocoder 3y ago
    The board can easily back up their public claim. They don't. Even the email to their own employees says it is a irreconcilable difference. Nothing about lying. I don't think it is reasonable to go with "we don't know". It is more like: "it is crucial to back up your claim. Still, you don't.".
    - Keyframe 3y ago
      I don't disagree. It's just maybe they have something they haven't shared or maybe they don't. We don't know (yet).
      - ergocoder 3y ago
        The fact that they didn't follow up with evidence immediately shows that they are incompetent. You don't just accuse someone of committing a heinous crime and stay silent. What is the detail?
        Keyframe 3y ago
        True, but are they obliged to provide all details to the public?
wesleywt 3y ago
Why did the board fire Sam in such a weird way? It shows that they are the wrong people for the job. If they wanted to get rid of him they should have done a better job than alienating everyone at the company.