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Tesla has margins on their EVs so they could afford to cut the price. The other Western manufacturers aren't there yet, so there's not sufficient competition. M

Tesla has margins on their EVs so they could afford to cut the price. The other Western manufacturers aren't there yet, so there's not sufficient competition. Maybe Chinese manufacturers will get into western markets and we'll get a real price war

dilyevsky 3y ago
> Maybe Chinese manufacturers will get into western markets They already have - volvo makes nice evs but pretty pricey
- shiftpgdn 3y ago
  Western market Volvos are made by the "original" Volvo with minimal Geely influence. For now anyway.
  - ddalex 3y ago
    the design language and the consumer software in the Geely era are of atrocious quality Hopefully the safety, mechanics and embedded software are still Volvo-engineered, but I wouldn't bet on it
    - moogly 3y ago
      I've heard much better things about the Zeekr infotainment software. I wonder if they'll consolidate. Then again, Lotus (Geely) also have their own. Not sure about the other car Smart #1.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    All EVs by Volvo and polestar are made at one factory in shandong, so they are made at least with Geely manufacturing influence.
    - moogly 3y ago
      Nah. The EX90 is being built in South Carolina for the US market. Polestar 3 and 4 will also be built there. XC40 and C40 Recharge are built in Ghent, Belgium. The EX30 will also be manufactured there starting in 2025. Somewhat complete list here[0], but it's not including the US-built Polestar 3 and 4 which were announced in 2021. Maybe those plans have changed, not sure. Also if the US EV incentives were to go away, see planned US production to diminish across the board. The battery production plant joint venture (with Northvolt) is being constructed outside of Gothenburg, Sweden. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_Car_production_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_Car_production_p...
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        That’s new. Even if the incentive goes away, the tariff will still make production outside of China (in Mexico or the USA) worthwhile for Geely.
pengaru 3y ago
While part of me is looking forward to affordable minimalist EVs that aren't trying to be self-driving smartphones on wheels, I'm certainly not looking forward to reliving no-name chinesium smartphone knockoffs with batteries that try burn your house down the first time you forget them charging overnight...
- lostlogin 3y ago
  It goes both ways though. My brand name Chinese made iPhone is great.
  - atomicUpdate 3y ago
    The difference is that it’s not designed in China. Foxconn certainly provides input to the manufacturing process, but the engineers in the US keep the quality bar high.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      Nope. Anyone can build iPhone quality devices in China. They will just cost as much as an iPhone. What happpens is that there is a demand for cheap crap so that's what they design in China. If you were willing to pay Apple level prices for a Chinese brand they'd build you Apple level quality.
      - alvah 3y ago
        If you were willing to pay Apple-level prices for a Chinese brand, provide significant oversight at every step of the process, and constantly quality check every batch delivered, then you might get Apple-level quality.
        nottorp 3y ago
        What do you think Apple does to get that level of quality? :) It's simple. It costs.
- 3y ago
rgmerk 3y ago
They're already in Europe, and there is a price war. In response, European automakers are both innovating and pressuring governments for restrictive measures. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid...
- polishdude20 3y ago
  Why is it that we let China manufacture aosr everything else but cars are a restricted category?
  - Renaud 3y ago
    The car industry is still massive in Europe, it's a big employer and in many localities, it's basically the only one. China help its manufacturers a lot, regulations are lax around worker and environment rights, wages are kept artificially low, subsidies, tax cuts, export, creating an unfair competitive advantage to European cars. Europe might never be able to compete fairly, and it's looking at ways to penalize the import of these cheap cars to rebalance the market. I think that beyond the purely short term economics, there is a real danger that you are jeopardizing your sovereignty if you relinquish such a huge chunk of your transportation capabilities and become hostage to the whims of a country that doesn't value your vision of the world. It becomes more than just being able to buy cheap cars and letting the market sort it out. It's about geopolitics, relevance and survival or your way of life.
    - antupis 3y ago
      Or Germans protect their biggest export.
  - rootusrootus 3y ago
    Because we were stupid when it comes to the little things, but cars are expensive. And the gov't knows that in a pinch, a car manufacturer can figure out how to make tanks and planes. The last thing we want to do is let unfair competition from China kill off our native manufacturing ability.
YeahThisIsMe 3y ago
Tesla is out on account of Musk being their CEO. They've locked in for now through licensing their plug.
- martin8412 3y ago
  Only in the US. Tesla and everyone else is CCS2 in Europe.

dilyevsky 3y ago

> Maybe Chinese manufacturers will get into western markets They already have - volvo makes nice evs but pretty pricey

shiftpgdn 3y ago
Western market Volvos are made by the "original" Volvo with minimal Geely influence. For now anyway.
- ddalex 3y ago
  the design language and the consumer software in the Geely era are of atrocious quality Hopefully the safety, mechanics and embedded software are still Volvo-engineered, but I wouldn't bet on it
  - moogly 3y ago
    I've heard much better things about the Zeekr infotainment software. I wonder if they'll consolidate. Then again, Lotus (Geely) also have their own. Not sure about the other car Smart #1.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  All EVs by Volvo and polestar are made at one factory in shandong, so they are made at least with Geely manufacturing influence.
  - moogly 3y ago
    Nah. The EX90 is being built in South Carolina for the US market. Polestar 3 and 4 will also be built there. XC40 and C40 Recharge are built in Ghent, Belgium. The EX30 will also be manufactured there starting in 2025. Somewhat complete list here[0], but it's not including the US-built Polestar 3 and 4 which were announced in 2021. Maybe those plans have changed, not sure. Also if the US EV incentives were to go away, see planned US production to diminish across the board. The battery production plant joint venture (with Northvolt) is being constructed outside of Gothenburg, Sweden. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_Car_production_plants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volvo_Car_production_p...
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      That’s new. Even if the incentive goes away, the tariff will still make production outside of China (in Mexico or the USA) worthwhile for Geely.

pengaru 3y ago

While part of me is looking forward to affordable minimalist EVs that aren't trying to be self-driving smartphones on wheels, I'm certainly not looking forward to reliving no-name chinesium smartphone knockoffs with batteries that try burn your house down the first time you forget them charging overnight...

lostlogin 3y ago
It goes both ways though. My brand name Chinese made iPhone is great.
- atomicUpdate 3y ago
  The difference is that it’s not designed in China. Foxconn certainly provides input to the manufacturing process, but the engineers in the US keep the quality bar high.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Nope. Anyone can build iPhone quality devices in China. They will just cost as much as an iPhone. What happpens is that there is a demand for cheap crap so that's what they design in China. If you were willing to pay Apple level prices for a Chinese brand they'd build you Apple level quality.
    - alvah 3y ago
      If you were willing to pay Apple-level prices for a Chinese brand, provide significant oversight at every step of the process, and constantly quality check every batch delivered, then you might get Apple-level quality.
      - nottorp 3y ago
        What do you think Apple does to get that level of quality? :) It's simple. It costs.
3y ago

rgmerk 3y ago

They're already in Europe, and there is a price war. In response, European automakers are both innovating and pressuring governments for restrictive measures. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsidy-investigation-into-chinese-electric-vehicles-2023-09-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-launches-anti-subsid...

polishdude20 3y ago
Why is it that we let China manufacture aosr everything else but cars are a restricted category?
- Renaud 3y ago
  The car industry is still massive in Europe, it's a big employer and in many localities, it's basically the only one. China help its manufacturers a lot, regulations are lax around worker and environment rights, wages are kept artificially low, subsidies, tax cuts, export, creating an unfair competitive advantage to European cars. Europe might never be able to compete fairly, and it's looking at ways to penalize the import of these cheap cars to rebalance the market. I think that beyond the purely short term economics, there is a real danger that you are jeopardizing your sovereignty if you relinquish such a huge chunk of your transportation capabilities and become hostage to the whims of a country that doesn't value your vision of the world. It becomes more than just being able to buy cheap cars and letting the market sort it out. It's about geopolitics, relevance and survival or your way of life.
  - antupis 3y ago
    Or Germans protect their biggest export.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  Because we were stupid when it comes to the little things, but cars are expensive. And the gov't knows that in a pinch, a car manufacturer can figure out how to make tanks and planes. The last thing we want to do is let unfair competition from China kill off our native manufacturing ability.

YeahThisIsMe 3y ago

Tesla is out on account of Musk being their CEO. They've locked in for now through licensing their plug.

martin8412 3y ago
Only in the US. Tesla and everyone else is CCS2 in Europe.