4 ms·

Tesla faces strong oposition from unions in Sweden

35 points by niemandhier 3y ago

anovikov 3y ago
So what are they going to do if Tesla stops imports there, and promises to remotely auto-disable any Tesla imported in a black market manner? Resign themselves to only driving Chinese and shitty European electric cars? A rather stupid attempt to move against a power much stronger than yourself.
- superchroma 3y ago
  Why would that be an issue? The rights of workers trump the public's appetite for a particular brand of car. Furthermore, consumers have many rights in the EU as well, I would expect such behavior to be unfeasible. Tesla has a market lead but not technological supremacy and it is arrogant to assume they'll maintain it in perpetuity. They're squandering it now in real-time with the cybertruck.
  - mikecoles 3y ago
    The only 'right' the workers should have to get a different job if they don't like the terms of their current one.
    - Hikikomori 3y ago
      So if you're not happy with your underpaid and probably dangerous job you can get another one just like it?
    - Rovoska 3y ago
      Wild to see such unironic bootlicking. What, you want to advocate for slavery next?
      - whatevaa 3y ago
        I have a feeling a lot of people are okay with slavery. They are going to try to weasel themselves out of this question, denying it, though.
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        That is basically what the whole gig economy is all about, surviving from check to check, without any kind of state support, and forced to become homeless when not able to pay debt.
      - euroderf 3y ago
        Hey, kids! Can you say "precariat" ? That's it. I knew you could.
    - ulrashida 3y ago
      It is bizarre that you don't think safe workplaces are a right. The life situation that leads to this view is equally fascinating and concerning.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Thankfully we are socialists over here.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
      That’s kind of weird because it incentivizes collusion among employers for worsening workplaces. For example if sexual harassment was ubiquitous there’s nowhere for victims to go.
    - lawlessone 3y ago
      Thanks Ben Shapiro
  - anovikov 3y ago
    Well, they are not invincible but only possible alternative are Chinese cars. That are a no-no in EU because of they are allowed, entire EU auto industry immediately goes bust with much much bigger labor and economic consequences.
    - 4wsn 3y ago
      What? They're already here. I don't see too many around yet but they're definitely on sale. https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783 https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies...
    - rsynnott 3y ago
      ... I think you may be a little confused (or maybe assuming that the European market is like the US one, where Tesla really is very dominant). Last month, the best-selling electric car in Sweden appears to have been a BYD (Chinese) one. Year to date, the single best-selling electric car was a Tesla Y, but VW Group was the biggest manufacturer overall, with BMW and Hyundai (Korean) also sizeable.
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      There are a lot of european car makers selling EVs nowadays. The fact you don't know about them is just ignorance. Plus I see a lot of Kia and Hyundai EVs on the road, much more than Teslas that people seem to be happy with.
    - bjornasm 3y ago
      >Well, they are not invincible but only possible alternative are Chinese cars Um, no? You seem very opinionaded for someone with seemingly little insight.
    - NorwegianDude 3y ago
      What are you talking about? Only possible alternative is Chinese? Sure, Teslas are cheap and more similar to cheap Chinese brands like Polestar, but there is a ton of options. Jaguars, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, VW and a bunch of others are popular and european.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  Sue them and seize their assets in Europe? Sweden is not a disconnected market. The sympathy strikes will spread to the other Nordic countries, the Nordic transport federation of unions have proclaimed their support now.
- Moldoteck 3y ago
  maybe vw is not tesla level, but their cars are good enough, imo not that big problem and let's be honest, if Tesla'd do this, big chances all European market will be affected
- Timon3 3y ago
  I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Do you think that Tesla is a stronger power than the country of Sweden?
  - hbrav 3y ago
    There's more locations you can refuel a Saab Gripen than a Tesla.
- whatevaa 3y ago
  A power much stronger than a country? So what are they supposed to do, bend down to their "masters"? And shitty European electric cars? At least they don't forget the bolt which holds the steering wheel in place. Tell me you are a Tesla fanboy without telling me you are a Tesla fanboy.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  > and promises to remotely auto-disable any Tesla imported in a black market manner This would likely get them banned within the Common Market, so, yeah, not gonna happen. > Resign themselves to only driving Chinese and shitty European electric cars? VW group electric cars, alone, outsell Teslas in Sweden, as far as I can see, so people are already choosing to do that. > A rather stupid attempt to move against a power much stronger than yourself. It's a consumer products company, not an evil empire. If it vanished tomorrow, well, there's an aspect of "meh, so what".
- bestcoder69 3y ago
  Tesla could just negotiate instead of being antagonistic.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Companies must learn they aren't above goverments.
- martin8412 3y ago
  Force Tesla to reimburse all customers, which Tesla can either do or start having their stuff seized. That includes their factory in Germany.
- usr1106 3y ago
  > shitty European electric cars Incidentally the biggest organization for mandatory vehicle safety inspections in Germany, TÜV, released their annual statistics report yesterday: Tesla 3 was covered the first time after having reached enough inspection volume to be statistically significant (1st inspection is after 3 years). It entered the list at the last rank with a failure rate of 14.7%. Long-term loser Dacia Logan moved up to next to last with 11.4%. I did not buy the report, so I am not sure whether any European electric car is already included, but that much about Tesla quality. Sources (in German): * Press release / advertisement: https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report * News coverage: https://www.spiegel.de/auto/tuev-report-tesla-model-3-ist-das-modell-mit-den-meisten-maengeln-a-eed2947a-5fe7-4a2b-a2bb-99d4b9ec1727 https://www.spiegel.de/auto/tuev-report-tesla-model-3-ist-da...
bfrog 3y ago
Good, I wish the US had unions like this. Our wages have been ever whittled away at by inflation and lack of raises.
- jseliger 3y ago
  You are poorly informed: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-wealth https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-weal... The wealth and income gaps between Europe and the United States are growing: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-09/europe-s-economy-is-in-need-of-reform https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-09/europe..., which strongly argues against great unionization.
  - snypher 3y ago
    The primary claim in your link is property prices have gone up, increasing the 'wealth' of the average family, which is not directly linked to wages.
Lariscus 3y ago
US companies coming to Europe and immediately picking a fight with the local unions is basically a meme at this point. I wonder if Tesla will repeat every single mistake that Walmart made when they tried to come to Germany.
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
It's a good thing europe is a single market and the swedes can go next door if they want to buy one.

35 points by niemandhier 3y ago

So what are they going to do if Tesla stops imports there, and promises to remotely auto-disable any Tesla imported in a black market manner? Resign themselves to only driving Chinese and shitty European electric cars? A rather stupid attempt to move against a power much stronger than yourself.

superchroma 3y ago
Why would that be an issue? The rights of workers trump the public's appetite for a particular brand of car. Furthermore, consumers have many rights in the EU as well, I would expect such behavior to be unfeasible. Tesla has a market lead but not technological supremacy and it is arrogant to assume they'll maintain it in perpetuity. They're squandering it now in real-time with the cybertruck.
- mikecoles 3y ago
  The only 'right' the workers should have to get a different job if they don't like the terms of their current one.
  - Hikikomori 3y ago
    So if you're not happy with your underpaid and probably dangerous job you can get another one just like it?
  - Rovoska 3y ago
    Wild to see such unironic bootlicking. What, you want to advocate for slavery next?
    - whatevaa 3y ago
      I have a feeling a lot of people are okay with slavery. They are going to try to weasel themselves out of this question, denying it, though.
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      That is basically what the whole gig economy is all about, surviving from check to check, without any kind of state support, and forced to become homeless when not able to pay debt.
    - euroderf 3y ago
      Hey, kids! Can you say "precariat" ? That's it. I knew you could.
  - ulrashida 3y ago
    It is bizarre that you don't think safe workplaces are a right. The life situation that leads to this view is equally fascinating and concerning.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Thankfully we are socialists over here.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
    That’s kind of weird because it incentivizes collusion among employers for worsening workplaces. For example if sexual harassment was ubiquitous there’s nowhere for victims to go.
  - lawlessone 3y ago
    Thanks Ben Shapiro
- anovikov 3y ago
  Well, they are not invincible but only possible alternative are Chinese cars. That are a no-no in EU because of they are allowed, entire EU auto industry immediately goes bust with much much bigger labor and economic consequences.
  - 4wsn 3y ago
    What? They're already here. I don't see too many around yet but they're definitely on sale. https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies-europe-investigation-4f00df1c7588ca375efebb89a2b83783 https://apnews.com/article/electric-vehicles-china-subsidies...
  - rsynnott 3y ago
    ... I think you may be a little confused (or maybe assuming that the European market is like the US one, where Tesla really is very dominant). Last month, the best-selling electric car in Sweden appears to have been a BYD (Chinese) one. Year to date, the single best-selling electric car was a Tesla Y, but VW Group was the biggest manufacturer overall, with BMW and Hyundai (Korean) also sizeable.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    There are a lot of european car makers selling EVs nowadays. The fact you don't know about them is just ignorance. Plus I see a lot of Kia and Hyundai EVs on the road, much more than Teslas that people seem to be happy with.
  - bjornasm 3y ago
    >Well, they are not invincible but only possible alternative are Chinese cars Um, no? You seem very opinionaded for someone with seemingly little insight.
  - NorwegianDude 3y ago
    What are you talking about? Only possible alternative is Chinese? Sure, Teslas are cheap and more similar to cheap Chinese brands like Polestar, but there is a ton of options. Jaguars, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes, VW and a bunch of others are popular and european.
Hikikomori 3y ago
Sue them and seize their assets in Europe? Sweden is not a disconnected market. The sympathy strikes will spread to the other Nordic countries, the Nordic transport federation of unions have proclaimed their support now.
Moldoteck 3y ago
maybe vw is not tesla level, but their cars are good enough, imo not that big problem and let's be honest, if Tesla'd do this, big chances all European market will be affected
Timon3 3y ago
I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. Do you think that Tesla is a stronger power than the country of Sweden?
- hbrav 3y ago
  There's more locations you can refuel a Saab Gripen than a Tesla.
whatevaa 3y ago
A power much stronger than a country? So what are they supposed to do, bend down to their "masters"? And shitty European electric cars? At least they don't forget the bolt which holds the steering wheel in place. Tell me you are a Tesla fanboy without telling me you are a Tesla fanboy.
rsynnott 3y ago
> and promises to remotely auto-disable any Tesla imported in a black market manner This would likely get them banned within the Common Market, so, yeah, not gonna happen. > Resign themselves to only driving Chinese and shitty European electric cars? VW group electric cars, alone, outsell Teslas in Sweden, as far as I can see, so people are already choosing to do that. > A rather stupid attempt to move against a power much stronger than yourself. It's a consumer products company, not an evil empire. If it vanished tomorrow, well, there's an aspect of "meh, so what".
bestcoder69 3y ago
Tesla could just negotiate instead of being antagonistic.
pjmlp 3y ago
Companies must learn they aren't above goverments.
martin8412 3y ago
Force Tesla to reimburse all customers, which Tesla can either do or start having their stuff seized. That includes their factory in Germany.
usr1106 3y ago
> shitty European electric cars Incidentally the biggest organization for mandatory vehicle safety inspections in Germany, TÜV, released their annual statistics report yesterday: Tesla 3 was covered the first time after having reached enough inspection volume to be statistically significant (1st inspection is after 3 years). It entered the list at the last rank with a failure rate of 14.7%. Long-term loser Dacia Logan moved up to next to last with 11.4%. I did not buy the report, so I am not sure whether any European electric car is already included, but that much about Tesla quality. Sources (in German): * Press release / advertisement: https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report https://www.tuvsud.com/de-de/publikationen/tuev-report * News coverage: https://www.spiegel.de/auto/tuev-report-tesla-model-3-ist-das-modell-mit-den-meisten-maengeln-a-eed2947a-5fe7-4a2b-a2bb-99d4b9ec1727 https://www.spiegel.de/auto/tuev-report-tesla-model-3-ist-da...

bfrog 3y ago

Good, I wish the US had unions like this. Our wages have been ever whittled away at by inflation and lack of raises.

jseliger 3y ago
You are poorly informed: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-wealth https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/great-news-about-american-weal... The wealth and income gaps between Europe and the United States are growing: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-09/europe-s-economy-is-in-need-of-reform https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-09/europe..., which strongly argues against great unionization.
- snypher 3y ago
  The primary claim in your link is property prices have gone up, increasing the 'wealth' of the average family, which is not directly linked to wages.

Lariscus 3y ago

US companies coming to Europe and immediately picking a fight with the local unions is basically a meme at this point. I wonder if Tesla will repeat every single mistake that Walmart made when they tried to come to Germany.

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

It's a good thing europe is a single market and the swedes can go next door if they want to buy one.