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There are still tools to do it. I think the reason they are not more popular with programmers is that it's basically some stupid subconscious thing where we are

by ilaksh 3y ago

There are still tools to do it. I think the reason they are not more popular with programmers is that it's basically some stupid subconscious thing where we are afraid of being accused of being users or beginners. Not something we realize consciously, but anything that doesn't involve complex colorful text naturally gets kind of peer pressured out because it looks like a "beginner tool".

jszymborski 3y ago
I first started programming with VB6 and have yearned to make a GUI program as simply as I did then. Can you point me to something as simple? I've tried Glade before but the time I used it I didn't find it a particularly pleasant experience
- ilaksh 3y ago
  I also used VB6 back in the day. It was great. Sadly I, like all programmers, have been peer pressured or something into avoiding tools like that. But I know they exist. I also made one several years ago. (No one was interested). But I think if you search for "RAD" or "Rapid Application Development" or graphical component based development may get quite a lot. I think that there are several plugins for WordPress that have similar functionality, although less code integration. Maybe search for "drag and drop React editor".
- password4321 3y ago
  Windows Forms for .NET Framework 4 using Visual Studio was (is?) a simple Windows-only option.
- lanstin 3y ago
  I used VBA and Tk. They were good. I always assumed front end web people have similar tools?
- NoGravitas 3y ago
  Glade is actually annoying enough that it's easier and faster to construct your UI in-code.
- monknomo 3y ago
  I have enjoyed using windowbuilder and formdev when I need a desktop gui
ilaksh 3y ago
The most up to date version might use something like Streamlit with a drag and drop editor.
Guvante 3y ago
You are missing a huge caveat of those tools. They tend to have limits in functionality. It isn't uncommon that you prototype with a tool and it is super fast but before you can launch for real you need to rewrite everything. At that point it is difficult to know if the prototype was valuable. Certainly quickly visualizing is good but a prototype tool that is non functional is even faster to use. Having a tool that allows easy drag and drop without any friction on the generated code (including difficulty of using that code) while also having all the powers of HTML would be really cool. Such a tool wouldn't be a beginner tool but any that fail this and can't really go all the way to final product gets discarded as "I am going to have to rewrite anyway". Less of a "I am too good for that" more a "not a useful abstractions level" when considered holistically.
- ilaksh 3y ago
  That's a good rationalization for doing everything manually, but I don't believe it really holds up. I think it comes down to some social psychological effects that as I said are subconscious. So people don't realize it's effecting their decision making. When they decide not to use those tools they will use rationales like you said rather than admitting that they felt peer pressure.
  - cs02rm0 3y ago
    Disagree, it's a very conscious choice from having been burned repeatedly by being asked to do something leftfield.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Some people want to be good software developers, not just good website builders. If you want to use low code website builders, feel free. If that suits your work style and the projects you're building, great. But you will never develop the skills you need to actually build software. A person who spends their life using website builders instead of writing software will never be able to build their own website builder, for example. Some of us actually like to have the skills to build the tools ourselves. If you want to call that peer pressure, then sure. It's peer pressure to elevate your own experience and attain mastery, instead of settling for only ever using tools that other people built for you.

by ilaksh 3y ago

jszymborski 3y ago

I first started programming with VB6 and have yearned to make a GUI program as simply as I did then. Can you point me to something as simple? I've tried Glade before but the time I used it I didn't find it a particularly pleasant experience

ilaksh 3y ago
I also used VB6 back in the day. It was great. Sadly I, like all programmers, have been peer pressured or something into avoiding tools like that. But I know they exist. I also made one several years ago. (No one was interested). But I think if you search for "RAD" or "Rapid Application Development" or graphical component based development may get quite a lot. I think that there are several plugins for WordPress that have similar functionality, although less code integration. Maybe search for "drag and drop React editor".
password4321 3y ago
Windows Forms for .NET Framework 4 using Visual Studio was (is?) a simple Windows-only option.
lanstin 3y ago
I used VBA and Tk. They were good. I always assumed front end web people have similar tools?
NoGravitas 3y ago
Glade is actually annoying enough that it's easier and faster to construct your UI in-code.
monknomo 3y ago
I have enjoyed using windowbuilder and formdev when I need a desktop gui

ilaksh 3y ago

The most up to date version might use something like Streamlit with a drag and drop editor.

Guvante 3y ago

You are missing a huge caveat of those tools. They tend to have limits in functionality. It isn't uncommon that you prototype with a tool and it is super fast but before you can launch for real you need to rewrite everything. At that point it is difficult to know if the prototype was valuable. Certainly quickly visualizing is good but a prototype tool that is non functional is even faster to use. Having a tool that allows easy drag and drop without any friction on the generated code (including difficulty of using that code) while also having all the powers of HTML would be really cool. Such a tool wouldn't be a beginner tool but any that fail this and can't really go all the way to final product gets discarded as "I am going to have to rewrite anyway". Less of a "I am too good for that" more a "not a useful abstractions level" when considered holistically.

ilaksh 3y ago
That's a good rationalization for doing everything manually, but I don't believe it really holds up. I think it comes down to some social psychological effects that as I said are subconscious. So people don't realize it's effecting their decision making. When they decide not to use those tools they will use rationales like you said rather than admitting that they felt peer pressure.
- cs02rm0 3y ago
  Disagree, it's a very conscious choice from having been burned repeatedly by being asked to do something leftfield.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Some people want to be good software developers, not just good website builders. If you want to use low code website builders, feel free. If that suits your work style and the projects you're building, great. But you will never develop the skills you need to actually build software. A person who spends their life using website builders instead of writing software will never be able to build their own website builder, for example. Some of us actually like to have the skills to build the tools ourselves. If you want to call that peer pressure, then sure. It's peer pressure to elevate your own experience and attain mastery, instead of settling for only ever using tools that other people built for you.