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And the three problems are all each exacerbated by the other two. For fuck's sake, there's a complex near me [0] that has STUDIO apartments that start at $1,69

And the three problems are all each exacerbated by the other two. For fuck's sake, there's a complex near me [0] that has STUDIO apartments that start at $1,690. This is a suburb. It's not even close to anything. Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away. Granted, our minimum wage is somewhat high at $15.45/hr. But even at that rate, it would take 110 hours of pretax wages to pay for it. Post-tax, it'd be at least 75% of your monthly pay. [0] https://maps.app.goo.gl/EYCy2kvXsRYCjz4J7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/EYCy2kvXsRYCjz4J7

hondo77 3y ago
> Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away. The horror.
- jonwest 3y ago
  You ever walked a mile carrying two armfuls of groceries? That’s brutal without a car, and without public transit nearby, that makes it incredibly inconvenient and difficult to have food in the fridge. Get outta here with your feigned sarcasm, it’s a legitimate problem.
  - hondo77 3y ago
    Yes, I have. That's why I switched over to a foldable shopping cart. Cutting-edge 20th century technology for today's modern problems.
  - SirMaster 3y ago
    Grocery stores? I thought all the young people are doing things like DoorDash, Hello Fresh or Amazon Fresh etc. Not saying they should be doing that so much, but seems like they aren’t interested in shopping at a Grocery store.
    - tyg13 3y ago
      The smart and motivated ones will try to get to the grocery store. Unfortunately, for most, those services do so much more harm than good. What makes sense for a wealthy professional to pay for the convenience of food or grocery delivery ends up being a small fortune for a lot of young people who can't afford a car to go to the grocery store. It's a clear short- vs long-term thinking issue, but the reality is most young people are living with so little hope for the future that denying immediate pleasures in search of a future payoff seems naive and pointless.
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    Yep, a mile is too far for a grocery store. We need more, smaller grocery stores. But the economics don't work out in most places. No idea how to solve this kind of issue.
    - nradov 3y ago
      The small grocery stores in dense cities have limited selection and high prices (in order to cover high rents). So, everyone with a car drives out to larger supermarkets and big box stores outside of the urban core in order so save money (even though it might cost a little in terms of time and fuel) and have a better shopping experience. And then the only customers who shop at the smaller grocery stores are poor people who can't afford a car. I don't think this is really a solvable problem short of giving explicit city government subsidies to grocery stores in certain neighborhoods.
      - sanderjd 3y ago
        Indeed. But of course the "driving out to a big store" is also subsidized. It's only cheap because of all the roads that have been built, all the subsidies over the decades that have made fuel so cheap, and the ability to freely "socialize the externalities" of burning fossil fuels. But what I want is the ability to do a trip to a "big box" store further out once or twice a month, but be able to go somewhere close for smaller things day to day. But I definitely understand why the economics of this don't really work in most places. I just lament it.
- bmitc 3y ago
  It's not the distance; it's the time. Walking 20 minutes to a subway station only to wait 10-20 minutes on an unreliable train to take a 10-45 minute subway ride only to finish with another 20 minute walk is not remotely efficient. I've calculated in my city that for some routes, it's only barely twice as fast to take the subway over walking the entire way. Spending over an hour one way is not acceptable when it takes less than half that time to just drive, even in heavy traffic.
  - hondo77 3y ago
    Sometimes life isn't efficient.
    - bmitc 3y ago
      What is your point?
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  Others have already talking about the time and trouble of carrying things... But something else worth mentioning is weather. This is the Pacific Northwest. It rains a LOT here. From mid-October to April, the rain feels non-stop. Walking two miles in the rain nearly every day for six months starts to take a mental toll.
seiferteric 3y ago
A mile on a bike isn't exactly that much...
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  It's not when the infrastructure is well-designed for it. There's a new grocery store a little over a mile away from me that I've biked to a few times now and that's not so bad, though there are thankfully some quieter back streets that can take me to it. Looking at that Google Maps view GP posted though I'm not sure I'd feel safe riding there.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  A mile on foot isn't far either. The people living in those much vaunted walkable European cities think little of walking a few kilometers in a day; it's the American tourists who balk at that. If you want a walkable city lifestyle but you also think walking a mile is unreasonable, your need a reality check. I'm going to walk to the park today to see the ducks, it's 1.5 miles away one way. I'm going to get groceries on the way back. I do this often, it's literally no big deal.
  - orwin 3y ago
    > I'm going to get groceries on the way back. If you have a park and a grocery store both on the same path, and sidewalks, i'd argue that your neighborhood is already walkable.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      Well yes, that's precisely my point. A grocery store being a mile away doesn't make a neighborhood unwalkable. This is contrary to what Sohcahtoa82 said, citing a grocery store a mile away making that neighborhood unwalkable. > "It's not even close to anything. Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away." If you want to take advantage of a walkable neighborhood, then you shouldn't be complaining about a mile. A mile is nothing. Before WFH I was walking two miles to work and two miles back every day, and that doesn't count all the other places I walked to every day (another one or two miles for lunch, and another one or two miles in the evening.) And I still managed to gain weight with that routine.. Somebody complaining about one mile sounds like a joke. If you actually want a walkable neighborhood, you should be prepared to walk.
ZoomerCretin 3y ago
There's an apartment in Portland proper with a studio at $1,310/month: https://www.live230ash.com/floor-plans/?floor_plans_list https://www.live230ash.com/floor-plans/?floor_plans_list It's odd to me that at these prices, roommates (the kind you share a room with) are not more common.
xboxnolifes 3y ago
> Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away. I feel like you need to be a bit more precise when it comes to walking distance. Is "over a mile away" closer to 1 mile, or 2? A mile walk isn't far, but a 2 mile walk can be if you're doing it both ways without much in-between. That being said, that apartment building (and area) is clearly designed with driving in mind. Parking spaces, right next to a 7 lane highway, more asphalt than rooftop.

hondo77 3y ago

> Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away. The horror.

jonwest 3y ago
You ever walked a mile carrying two armfuls of groceries? That’s brutal without a car, and without public transit nearby, that makes it incredibly inconvenient and difficult to have food in the fridge. Get outta here with your feigned sarcasm, it’s a legitimate problem.
- hondo77 3y ago
  Yes, I have. That's why I switched over to a foldable shopping cart. Cutting-edge 20th century technology for today's modern problems.
- SirMaster 3y ago
  Grocery stores? I thought all the young people are doing things like DoorDash, Hello Fresh or Amazon Fresh etc. Not saying they should be doing that so much, but seems like they aren’t interested in shopping at a Grocery store.
  - tyg13 3y ago
    The smart and motivated ones will try to get to the grocery store. Unfortunately, for most, those services do so much more harm than good. What makes sense for a wealthy professional to pay for the convenience of food or grocery delivery ends up being a small fortune for a lot of young people who can't afford a car to go to the grocery store. It's a clear short- vs long-term thinking issue, but the reality is most young people are living with so little hope for the future that denying immediate pleasures in search of a future payoff seems naive and pointless.
- sanderjd 3y ago
  Yep, a mile is too far for a grocery store. We need more, smaller grocery stores. But the economics don't work out in most places. No idea how to solve this kind of issue.
  - nradov 3y ago
    The small grocery stores in dense cities have limited selection and high prices (in order to cover high rents). So, everyone with a car drives out to larger supermarkets and big box stores outside of the urban core in order so save money (even though it might cost a little in terms of time and fuel) and have a better shopping experience. And then the only customers who shop at the smaller grocery stores are poor people who can't afford a car. I don't think this is really a solvable problem short of giving explicit city government subsidies to grocery stores in certain neighborhoods.
    - sanderjd 3y ago
      Indeed. But of course the "driving out to a big store" is also subsidized. It's only cheap because of all the roads that have been built, all the subsidies over the decades that have made fuel so cheap, and the ability to freely "socialize the externalities" of burning fossil fuels. But what I want is the ability to do a trip to a "big box" store further out once or twice a month, but be able to go somewhere close for smaller things day to day. But I definitely understand why the economics of this don't really work in most places. I just lament it.
bmitc 3y ago
It's not the distance; it's the time. Walking 20 minutes to a subway station only to wait 10-20 minutes on an unreliable train to take a 10-45 minute subway ride only to finish with another 20 minute walk is not remotely efficient. I've calculated in my city that for some routes, it's only barely twice as fast to take the subway over walking the entire way. Spending over an hour one way is not acceptable when it takes less than half that time to just drive, even in heavy traffic.
- hondo77 3y ago
  Sometimes life isn't efficient.
  - bmitc 3y ago
    What is your point?
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
Others have already talking about the time and trouble of carrying things... But something else worth mentioning is weather. This is the Pacific Northwest. It rains a LOT here. From mid-October to April, the rain feels non-stop. Walking two miles in the rain nearly every day for six months starts to take a mental toll.

seiferteric 3y ago

A mile on a bike isn't exactly that much...

ryukafalz 3y ago
It's not when the infrastructure is well-designed for it. There's a new grocery store a little over a mile away from me that I've biked to a few times now and that's not so bad, though there are thankfully some quieter back streets that can take me to it. Looking at that Google Maps view GP posted though I'm not sure I'd feel safe riding there.
mcpackieh 3y ago
A mile on foot isn't far either. The people living in those much vaunted walkable European cities think little of walking a few kilometers in a day; it's the American tourists who balk at that. If you want a walkable city lifestyle but you also think walking a mile is unreasonable, your need a reality check. I'm going to walk to the park today to see the ducks, it's 1.5 miles away one way. I'm going to get groceries on the way back. I do this often, it's literally no big deal.
- orwin 3y ago
  > I'm going to get groceries on the way back. If you have a park and a grocery store both on the same path, and sidewalks, i'd argue that your neighborhood is already walkable.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    Well yes, that's precisely my point. A grocery store being a mile away doesn't make a neighborhood unwalkable. This is contrary to what Sohcahtoa82 said, citing a grocery store a mile away making that neighborhood unwalkable. > "It's not even close to anything. Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away." If you want to take advantage of a walkable neighborhood, then you shouldn't be complaining about a mile. A mile is nothing. Before WFH I was walking two miles to work and two miles back every day, and that doesn't count all the other places I walked to every day (another one or two miles for lunch, and another one or two miles in the evening.) And I still managed to gain weight with that routine.. Somebody complaining about one mile sounds like a joke. If you actually want a walkable neighborhood, you should be prepared to walk.

ZoomerCretin 3y ago

There's an apartment in Portland proper with a studio at $1,310/month: https://www.live230ash.com/floor-plans/?floor_plans_list https://www.live230ash.com/floor-plans/?floor_plans_list It's odd to me that at these prices, roommates (the kind you share a room with) are not more common.

xboxnolifes 3y ago

> Even the metro line is about a mile walk. The nearest grocery store is over a mile away. I feel like you need to be a bit more precise when it comes to walking distance. Is "over a mile away" closer to 1 mile, or 2? A mile walk isn't far, but a 2 mile walk can be if you're doing it both ways without much in-between. That being said, that apartment building (and area) is clearly designed with driving in mind. Parking spaces, right next to a 7 lane highway, more asphalt than rooftop.