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Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans
- amyjess 3y agoIt's funny, as a pedestrian I want them to ban right turn not on red. Or rather, you should only be able to turn onto a road if that road has a green light for going straight.
- Zanni 3y agoWhy is that? My problem as a pedestrian is that cars 1) don't actually bother to stop at the red, sometimes barely slowing down, before turning and 2) if they do stop, they're looking left, to see if it's safe for them, and not right, to check for oncoming pedestrians.
- w0z_ 3y agobecause they definitely don't stop on green...
- arijun 3y agoBut there they’re at least not looking away.
- theironhammer 3y agoTHIS!!!!
- snickerbockers 3y agoWhen i lived in California people would honk their horns at me for stopping at the red light before making my turn, sometimes even when there were pedestrians in the crosswalk.
- gizmo686 3y agoIn a lot of intersections, pedestrians cross a road at the same time that cars going in the same direction do. That means that a right on green is turning directly into a pedestrian lane that has the walk signal. A right on red, in contrast, is turning into a pedestrian lane with the 'do not walk' signal, and so is safer for pedestrians.
- amyjess 3y agoYes, this is exactly it. I've nearly been run over several times by people making right turns as I'm trying to cross the street with a walk signal.
- Spivak 3y agoSo I think I get the aim which is if the light to your left where you're crossing is red you know there aren't any cars coming but that doesn't really work because of lefts from the other direction. Am I missing the goal?
- kamranjon 3y agoThere was a discussion on the Portland subreddit about someone who was making bumper stickers essentially saying “I don’t turn right on red” - because, at least in Oregon, it’s entirely optional. Anyhow the amount of visceral negative reactions to it was pretty shocking to me, people suggesting this person shouldn’t be allowed on the road, calling them names, and it was just generally very surprising to me for something that is technically optional.
- flamedoge 3y agobecause ppl conflate what is allowed to what should be.
- CamperBob2 3y agoNo, we're just frustrated that everyone has to pay for the irresponsible behavior of a few. Nobody's saying that you should be required to turn right on red.
- Freedom2 3y agoIf a driver believes it's safer not to turn right on red, and they probably have the best opinion as they're likely to have the most vision, why is it irresponsible?
- CamperBob2 3y agoThe question being asked is precisely the opposite one. Who are you to forbid me to turn right on red when I can plainly see there is no risk to anyone? Irrational laws lead to contempt for the law in general. See unreasonably low speed limits for a classic example.
- freddie_mercury 3y agoBy "pay" you mean wait a few seconds?
- 3y ago
- beej71 3y agoLittle known fun fact: in Oregon you can turn left on red as long as you're turning onto a one way street, even if you're turning from a two way street. As a pedestrian, cyclist, motorcycle, and driver, I'd sure miss right on red.
- donatj 3y agoIs this not standard everywhere in the US? I certainly practice it in Minneapolis.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y agoLike so many laws, it's common rather than universal: https://axleaddict.com/safety/Obscure-Driving-Regulations-Ignorance-is-no-excuse https://axleaddict.com/safety/Obscure-Driving-Regulations-Ig... (this was the first hit from a web search, maybe not the best link)
- beej71 3y agoNot super common: only in 5 states!
- g96alqdm0x 3y agoYou can do this on any street in the USA! As long as you’re turning onto a one way street, you can turn left on red, even from a two way street.
- mbauman 3y agoThat’s wildly incorrect. https://axleaddict.com/safety/Obscure-Driving-Regulations-Ignorance-is-no-excuse https://axleaddict.com/safety/Obscure-Driving-Regulations-Ig...
- crobertsbmw 3y agoWhen I was 14 I was hit by a car while I was riding my bike in this same scenario. I was okay, it just rattled me a bit. Overall, I just hate cars and hope to some day live in a world where they aren’t pet of the everyday. Maybe I can move to Amsterdam or something..
- xnx 3y agoI am a frequent pedestrian so I try my best to be careful when driving, but view-obstructing A-pillars make it really difficult. Pedestrians and even whole vehicles at an intersection can be obstructed from view.
- e63f67dd-065b 3y agoThe first time I was in the US I was shocked to see a car go straight through a crosswalk when it was red and I was crossing. I was very surprised when a friend later told me that this is normal in the US, it seems sensible that this should be banned. I also wonder how traffic routing works with right on red; since you cannot prohibit right turns under any circumstances, how do you direct traffic on T-junctions and 4-way junctions?
- flashback2199 3y agoI was taught it's illegal to drive thru a crosswalk when a pedestrian is in any part of the crosswalk, actually regardless of what the traffic signal is. Now, nobody follows that, but yeah..
- Freedom2 3y agoA lot of Americans believe that it infringes on their freedoms, hence why this behavior has become acceptable.
- amelius 3y agoIsn't traffic law #1 in the book that you are not allowed to cause an unsafe situation, regardless of all the other laws?
- jcranmer 3y agoThe precise rules vary from state to state, but the general rule of thumb is you must stop for a pedestrian that has not yet cleared your direction of the road.
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoHonestly as a pedestrian people following that rule are more confusing than anything else. I’ll be 50 feet from the lane they could be turning into and they’re just chilling. Good to see they’re not a road maniac, but also they should feel free to use their senses to realize there’s absolutely no way I could get hurt.
- s1mon 3y agoThe biggest problem isn’t right turn on red. It’s the rising percentages of massive SUVs and jacked up trucks where the hood is so high they can’t see pedestrians and the bumpers are higher and instead of pedestrians flying over the hoods, more force gets transferred into bodies and then possibly run over.
- peterlk 3y agoHear! hear! Why don’t we just start rolling back truck subsidies? If that’s not enough, maybe start incentivizing cars that aren’t tanks. The world is not more safe when everyone drives a tank. This is a tragedy of the commons
- jeo123 3y agoNOT GOING TO HAPPEN! Cybertruck is coming. Tesla needs that subsidy!
- YokoZar 3y agoWhy not prohibit right on red for just these specific vehicles then?
- thatswrong0 3y agoI wish they would just make the licensing requirement stricter for driving these behemoth vehicles. But this would have to happen on a state by state basis..
- cryptoz 3y agoThe real trick is actually enforcement. Nobody obeys the rules because none of the rules are enforced. So sure, make the law that prohibits just certain vehicles from doing a right on red. 100% guarantee you that the drivers of those cars will not obey the new rule and 100% guarantee you that cops won't enforce it.
- cryptonector 3y agoFrom TFA: | According to a national report by the Governors Highway Safety Association, more than 7,500 people walking were struck and killed by automobiles in 2022, the highest number since 1981. The spike, which included all accidents — not just those involving right turns on red, was attributed in part to an increase in larger vehicles such as SUVs and pickup trucks on the road. | The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety found that the odds a pedestrian would be killed when struck by an automobile turning right were 89% higher when the vehicle was a pickup and 63% higher when it was an SUV, due to larger blind spots and the deadlier force associated with heavier models. SUVs and pickups (I have a pickup, but I mostly only use it for activities that require a pickup) are extremely dangerous and should not be incentivized as they are by the current rules, and more, they should be taxed more heavily than sedans, coupes, and station wagons. Then a bit further down: | But Beeber said the National Motorists Association study of California found that even when there was an accident associated with right turns on red, at least 96% of the injuries sustained by pedestrians or cyclists were minor. Mr. Beeber is biased, and so is the NMA, so it's hard to say, but not much other data is offered regarding right-on-red injuries/fatalities, so I'm inclined to want to see more data before agreeing that we should ban right-on-red generally, or even in the cities as opposed to in areas with high pedestrian traffic. (Even where pedestrian traffic is high, it being high means drivers will tend to not miss them.) TFA makes a point of the dearth of data on right-on-red accidents. According to TFA there have been no new studies on the topic since 1994(!). I think the first step then would be to commission several studies. | “One injury or death is too many,” said Washington state Sen. John Lovick, the primary sponsor of a bill this year that would have prohibited right on red statewide near schools, parks and certain other locations. “If it were me at that intersection crossing, I would want something done.” This "one injury or death is too many" idea in general is very dangerous because it ignores unintended consequences completely. It's an idea that appeals to emotions rather than to reason.
- matisseverduyn 3y agoHow apropos... this just happened to me today. "Walk" displays for 3 seconds, then "Don't walk" flashes for 36 seconds. Multiple drivers, completely ignoring the pedestrians, were turning right. One driver yelled out "that means don't walk" while a few of us were patiently waiting in the middle of the crosswalk (since we can't teleport). Clearly just bad UX, since this would be solved by having "Walk" flash instead.
- AlexandrB 3y agoPeople are just shit drivers. Nowhere I've visited has had flashing red mean "stop in place" for pedestrians. This is something drivers are making up from whole cloth.
- jumpkick 3y agoI recall that scene from Rainman.
- Meekro 3y agoWhile the UX isn't ideal, the driver's exam that everyone has to pass already covers this point -- "don't walk" flashing means finish crossing if you've already started. So the yelling driver is just wrong. Would be nice to see cops aggressively ticketing drivers who turn right while pedestrians are trying to cross. At some of these intersections, it seems like you could just park a cop there all day and generate crazy money for the city.
- 63 3y agoIt wasn't on my driver's exam iirc and it hasn't been that long since I took it.
- xboxnolifes 3y agoWasn't on my exam either. Half of my written test was things done so infrequently/never, that it was basically a joke. We took the exam in our high school, everyone crammed the questions and answers right before the test, and only one person failed.
- cryptonector 3y agoIt makes sense to prohibit right on red turns in areas with lots of pedestrian traffic. It does not make sense to prohibit right on red everywhere in a city unless to cost of signage were prohibitive.
- donatj 3y agoWhen I was learning to drive, I am taking a right at an intersection with a sign "No Turn on Red 8am-6pm". It was 5:55pm and as someone with only a couple hours of driving under my belt, I wasn't going to push it and waited for the light to turn. Guy behind me just laid on his horn non-stop. My uncle in the passenger seat just told me calmly "Ignore that jerk" it's almost 20 years later and that memory sticks with me, in particular, how calm my uncle was about it given what a gruff grumpy dude he is.
- klyrs 3y agoIf I jumped into traffic every time somebody honked at me, I'd have killed a few dozen, myself included. Ignore that jerk, indeed. Somebody tried to bully me out of a parking spot I'd been waiting several minutes for, just today. When a jerk decides to jump out of their car because you ignore the horn... best to leave the window up.
- flashback2199 3y agoWere you blocking other cars from passing so you could camp at a parking spot?
- fmobus 3y agoGoing around obstructions is literally one of the first things I was taught in driving school.
- flashback2199 3y agoSure if there's space.
- klyrs 3y agoAmusingly, there was space to go around until the aggro jerk decided to block both directions, honk and yell, trapping the car that I was waiting to depart. Rather than wait another 30 seconds, they turned the situation into a 10 minute confrontation.
- cryptoz 3y agoHappened in Seattle today actually, I think. Car running a red light, possibly doing a right-turn-on-red, a bus hits the car and a pedestrian died. As the years go by I'm getting more militant about enforcement of driving laws. Nobody obeys the rules because there is never enforcement. And it's getting worse and worse, anecdotally. I haven't seen a car actually stop at a stop sign probably in months. It's all straight through, or slowing down. Never stopping. Even if there is someone crossing in front of them, the cars rarely stop. They will even accelerate towards you while you cross, hoping you'll run out of their way so that they can get somewhere 2s faster. Edit: Another aside, in Montreal I think there's a sign as you enter the city that says "Welcome to Montreal No Right on Red" lol. Some cities have "A beautiful and welcoming place" or whatever but MTL goes with "No right on red".
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoFirst can we make a first DUI into a 1 month license revocation and a second 10 years?
- amrocha 3y agoClose, but the first one should be jail and license revocation. You don't get a second chance after playing with other people's lives.
- orwin 3y agoMontreal is one of the sanest and most enjoyable city in NA.
- otteromkram 3y agoI am constantly irritated that the choice is never to have driver's do more training when it comes to improving traffic safety. Instead, there's a constant rush to make driving worse with erratic speed limits, "smart" traffic lights, etc.
- amrocha 3y agoWhy do we use high level programming languages? Just train everyone better to write machine code. Heck, if programmers could read binary we wouldn't need languages at all!!!
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoI wonder which costs more
- oatmeal1 3y agoMore training is unlikely to fix it. Someone can pass the training and still take out their cell phone while driving. Having a system where everyone basically has to drive to live a normal life (no matter how irresponsible or dumb they are) is simply inherently dangerous.
- ghusto 3y agoAm I right in thinking that in the U.S.A. you can go through a red light if turning right?
- Austizzle 3y agoYeah, since we drove on the right side, a right turn is relatively safe to treat as a yield at a red light. As long as it's safe and clear to go, you're allowed to.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 5555624 3y agoThe problem is not the law, it's that people ignore it. The law still requires you to stop -- not slow down -- and yield to pedestrians before making a right turn. When the law went into effect, a big slogan was "Right on red after stop." These days some drivers don't even bother to slow down, much less stop.
- nunez 3y agoTraffic laws are barely enforced as they are. Enforcing a federal ban on right-on-red (which I agree with) doesn't matter if we can't even enforce red-light cameras (which I think are mostly a good thing) or harsher punishment for phone use while driving or consistent speed limit enforcement (i.e. if you speed, you get a ticket, all the time, anywhere)
- amai 3y agoNo, you can't do that. The US traffic rules must stay exceptional compared to the rest of the world. If you give in on that in the end people might even demand other stuff from the rest of the world, like using metric units or banning guns or fighting against climate change or calling football football.