14 ms·

I need more USB power

177 points by iamflimflam1 3y ago

nolist_policy 3y ago
That's a lot of DCDC conversion per Dollar!
- jtriangle 3y ago
  Aliexpress is a treasure trove of this sort of thing. Unfortunately, product listings don't last that long, and often things get relisted under different names, so, you have to dig for what you want. Price is right though to be sure.
solardev 3y ago
What's that device that is being used to test whether something supports USB PD?
- jprd 3y ago
  https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-fnb38.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.search.0 https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-fnb38.html?spm=a2g0o.d...
  - solardev 3y ago
    Cool, thanks! Not bad for $12. The lack of safety features and warnings about blowing stuff up are a bit scary though, lol.
    - Hackbraten 3y ago
      If you want something in lab quality, the Power-Z KM003C [1] is a decent model. I use mine to troubleshoot USB-C PD docks. You can, however, blow up stuff with the Power-Z, too. [1]: https://www.chargerlab.com/introducing-the-brand-new-power-z-km003c/ https://www.chargerlab.com/introducing-the-brand-new-power-z...
    - fragmede 3y ago
      The "blow stuff up" is a specific mode where you tell the source and sink to ignore what they negotiated and do whatever you program the decide to fake instead. Which, if you're not careful, could be out of spec for either or both devices, causing said damage. In normal use, it's a semi-passive monitor/reporting box.
firmnoodle 3y ago
Why not use 110V AC for a hotplate and the soldering iron? USB seems silly.
- Animats 3y ago
  USB-powered coffee makers are a thing. There's a USB-powered fondue maker. A USB-powered mini-fridge. A USB-powered toaster.
  - bloopernova 3y ago
    There's also USB heated fingerless gloves for cold winter days. And I have several USB powered fans. USB-C power delivery cables are pretty useful and better than a dozen transformers fighting for space on a power strip.
- PennRobotics 3y ago
  I think the nice Weller irons are using 24 volts DC between the box and the tip. Why deal with filtering and conversion to run a PID temperature controller, which you'll need anyway to get a mains iron to run as precisely as a high-end device?
  - oakwhiz 3y ago
    Thyristor/SCR control works too.
- wepple 3y ago
  Can’t speak for the OP but having USB C devices is far tidier, and allows you to go portable. I’ve always had a 110 soldering station, but recently bought a Pinecil portable iron for soldering in the field, and damn that thing is so convenient and fast to heat and accurate, I hardly bother with my full solder station any more
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    It’s actually good? It’s so inexpensive. My soldering station was $200, and I thought that was on the cheaper side. It looks like Pinecil V2 is only $25 at the moment.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago
> It’s not a massive problem, but I do only have one 65W USB-C supply coming into workbench. I want more, I want much much more! >There don’t seem to be any powered USB-C hubs, so I went shopping on AliExpress and eventually came across this nice board: Are they UL listed? With that kind of watts, seems like they are capable of starting a fire and burning down your home if not properly designed, manufactured, tested, etc.
- Saris 3y ago
  No, but workbench stuff like this would be powered on when you're actively there and working on something, so if it did go pop and potentially catch fire at least you're nearby.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    Both soldering irons and multimeters, tools typically used on workbenches have time out/auto off features because EE work is performed by fallible humans that accidentally leave things plugged in and turned on when not actively monitoring things. Sometimes even intentionally, to test things like battery discharge rates.
declan_roberts 3y ago
I don't understand how you can power all of these at full power when the input voltage is a single ~30v DC wall adapter? Isn't that your bottleneck right there?
- KeplerBoy 3y ago
  That's not the issue. 24VDC power supplies with tens of amperes are not hard to find, they won't be wall warts though. I'm not sure though, if the board can actually put out high power from all 4 ports at the same time. Does anyone know?
  - dclowd9901 3y ago
    The supply wire looked like 14awg-ish which seems a little dinky for 20a @12v
    - popol12 3y ago
      https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm looks fine, if it's AWG 14 then it's rated for about 32 amps
      - dclowd9901 3y ago
        I mean, as someone who’s wired entire camper vans, I can tell you that I wouldn’t put 20 amps through 14awg, but I guess it also depends on the wire.
        popol12 3y ago
        Well, I guess that's the difference between "chassis wiring" and "power transmission" in the table at https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm It's about how long your wires are going to be, and a desktop electronic project has at least orders of magnitude smaller cable than a van, I'd say.
- 3y ago
throw0101b 3y ago
Is 240W not enough? > Announced in 2021, the USB PD Revision 3.1 specification is a major update to enable delivering up to 240W of power over full featured USB Type-C® cable and connector. Prior to this update, USB PD was limited to 100W using a solution based on 20V using USB Type-C cables rated at 5A. The USB Type-C specification has also been updated to Release 2.1 to define 240W cable requirements, and with the updated USB PD protocol and power supply definition, this extends the applicability of USB power delivery to a large number of applications where 100W wasn't adequate. * https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  That's not what the article is talking about. The article is talking about needing more outputs, not higher powered output. I do look forward to future iterations of boards like this that support usb-c input. Weird as that is. Basically a power breakout board. And heck, why not throw some usb hubs on it all too?
- timenova 3y ago
  I think someday it would be amazing to have 1500W to 3000W kettles simply being powered by Type C, and other home appliances too. Wall sockets in most places in the house could simply be the universal Type C port, and since Type C does power negotiation, it'll be safe to connect a low-power appliance to a high-power Type C outlet. The key requirement for this (after the spec comes along) would be high quality high-power rated Type C cables, and safe high-power Type C outlets. No need for each appliance to have different sorts of cables (mostly irreplaceable and fixed length) which don't fit some outlets correctly. Maybe after some regulations, it would even be easy to update the firmware of those home appliances to open source alternatives.
  - gubby 3y ago
    Interesting idea, I suspect it isn't possible with the existing connector. You either need to increase the voltage or the current. The new 240W spec is 5A and 50V. Assuming 5A is the thermal limit of the connector and that can't change, to get 1500W you'd need 300V, which is probably higher than the connector can support in terms of conductor spacing.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Great board, nice. It's so great that so many of these super small peripherals which would otherwise have walllwarts either just work with usb-c or can use a real simple trigegerboard or pigtail adapter. It's so convenient. And everything becomes incredibly easy to run off battery to boot. It'd be lovely to see a thermal imager of it under load, see how hot parts get & where. Total power is unspecified, but 65w out x 4 ports / 32V input is 8A, which may be possibly perhaps it can sustain but only maybe. I did try to go find this part on the website that's silkscreened on to the board, http://diymore.cc http://diymore.cc , but didn't find it there.
codetrotter 3y ago
I wish more things were USB-C powered. I am currently traveling and among the things I have with me are two Raspberry Pi devices. One with a touch screen, the other with a 5TiB SATA HDD in an enclosure. One of the RPi devices uses 5V power, the other 12V. Both have the same kind of barrel connector. Guess who arrived at an AirBnB a couple of days ago, tired and just wanting to get things quickly unpacked and set up. And guess who forgot which was which of the 5V and 12V powered device and plugged the 12V power cord into the 5V device. That’s right, this guy :( So now my RPi powered device with the 5TiB SATA HDD does not power on anymore, and for all I know plugging the 12V power supply into it may have even broken the circuit board of the HDD, in which case it will be very expensive to get my data back as HDD circuit replacement is outside of my set of skills. I wish all of these electronic I carry just used USB-C instead.
- sorenjan 3y ago
  You can buy USB-PD trigger boards and make most stuff USB-PD powered. For instance: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006068684294.html https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006068684294.html
  - stavros 3y ago
    Well this is amazing, thanks! Do you know if it can output whatever I want by shorting a jumper, or are these fixed when you get them? EDIT: Oh damn, this doesn't do 5V, which is what I need the most :(
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 3y ago
      It looks like you just solder the pads for the maximum voltage you want, and some of the pictures demonstrate what 12v being soldered looks like. And there are definitely 5v options, like these: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805818718384.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805818718384.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805815622101.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805815622101.html
      - 3y ago
KingLancelot 3y ago
[dead]
superjan 3y ago
That usb protocol tester looks nice. I recently tested what cable/adapter charged my old iPad the fastest. I suspected cheap clone cables to be worse but from USB A, all performed the same at around 11-12 watts. The best was the macbook usb C charger at 25 watts.
starkparker 3y ago
> There don’t seem to be any powered USB-C hubs Aren't all USB-C hubs with PD "powered"? Like, some output more power to other ports when fed with a power source? For example, I have two Anker hubs, one USB-C with USB-A ports and an unpowered USB-A hub. To get enough power to use the USB-A hub for anything more than basic input devices when connected to the USB-C hub, I have to run a powered connection through the PD port on the USB-C hub.
- BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
  I think OP meant products that convert 110V mains power into several high-wattage USB-PD receptacles (as opposed to the usual meaning of "USB Hub" for connecting multiple data devices to one USB host port). Anker's best offering in this category runs for $150 and only has 3 USB-C ports (which share a combined 240W limit—good enough for most applications but still not the full PD 3.0 limit of 100W per port, and nowhere near the PD 3.1 limits). A true "power strip" offering 5 or more high-power USB-PD Type-C ports would be nice, though it would need the equivalent of a pretty beefy PC's power supply to drive many simultaneous loads at those limits.
  - PokestarFan 3y ago
    I know UGREEN sells some USB-PD charging thing that can output a combined max of 300 W (up to 140 W for a single device): https://www.ugreen.com/products/ugreen-300w-desktop-usb-c-gan-charger https://www.ugreen.com/products/ugreen-300w-desktop-usb-c-ga...
Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
Why the fuck would you want more stuff powered through the most garbage connector ever made? I know the government is trying to impoverish us by requiring usb-c but you're not supposed to like it. There's even people suggesting using it for resistive heating appliances. Is the article prophetic and the government doesn't want us to have a hot plate to cook anything bigger than a thumbnail?

177 points by iamflimflam1 3y ago

nolist_policy 3y ago

That's a lot of DCDC conversion per Dollar!

jtriangle 3y ago
Aliexpress is a treasure trove of this sort of thing. Unfortunately, product listings don't last that long, and often things get relisted under different names, so, you have to dig for what you want. Price is right though to be sure.

solardev 3y ago

What's that device that is being used to test whether something supports USB PD?

jprd 3y ago
https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-fnb38.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.search.0 https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-fnb38.html?spm=a2g0o.d...
- solardev 3y ago
  Cool, thanks! Not bad for $12. The lack of safety features and warnings about blowing stuff up are a bit scary though, lol.
  - Hackbraten 3y ago
    If you want something in lab quality, the Power-Z KM003C [1] is a decent model. I use mine to troubleshoot USB-C PD docks. You can, however, blow up stuff with the Power-Z, too. [1]: https://www.chargerlab.com/introducing-the-brand-new-power-z-km003c/ https://www.chargerlab.com/introducing-the-brand-new-power-z...
  - fragmede 3y ago
    The "blow stuff up" is a specific mode where you tell the source and sink to ignore what they negotiated and do whatever you program the decide to fake instead. Which, if you're not careful, could be out of spec for either or both devices, causing said damage. In normal use, it's a semi-passive monitor/reporting box.

firmnoodle 3y ago

Why not use 110V AC for a hotplate and the soldering iron? USB seems silly.

Animats 3y ago
USB-powered coffee makers are a thing. There's a USB-powered fondue maker. A USB-powered mini-fridge. A USB-powered toaster.
- bloopernova 3y ago
  There's also USB heated fingerless gloves for cold winter days. And I have several USB powered fans. USB-C power delivery cables are pretty useful and better than a dozen transformers fighting for space on a power strip.
PennRobotics 3y ago
I think the nice Weller irons are using 24 volts DC between the box and the tip. Why deal with filtering and conversion to run a PID temperature controller, which you'll need anyway to get a mains iron to run as precisely as a high-end device?
- oakwhiz 3y ago
  Thyristor/SCR control works too.
wepple 3y ago
Can’t speak for the OP but having USB C devices is far tidier, and allows you to go portable. I’ve always had a 110 soldering station, but recently bought a Pinecil portable iron for soldering in the field, and damn that thing is so convenient and fast to heat and accurate, I hardly bother with my full solder station any more
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  It’s actually good? It’s so inexpensive. My soldering station was $200, and I thought that was on the cheaper side. It looks like Pinecil V2 is only $25 at the moment.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y ago

> It’s not a massive problem, but I do only have one 65W USB-C supply coming into workbench. I want more, I want much much more! >There don’t seem to be any powered USB-C hubs, so I went shopping on AliExpress and eventually came across this nice board: Are they UL listed? With that kind of watts, seems like they are capable of starting a fire and burning down your home if not properly designed, manufactured, tested, etc.

Saris 3y ago
No, but workbench stuff like this would be powered on when you're actively there and working on something, so if it did go pop and potentially catch fire at least you're nearby.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Both soldering irons and multimeters, tools typically used on workbenches have time out/auto off features because EE work is performed by fallible humans that accidentally leave things plugged in and turned on when not actively monitoring things. Sometimes even intentionally, to test things like battery discharge rates.

declan_roberts 3y ago

I don't understand how you can power all of these at full power when the input voltage is a single ~30v DC wall adapter? Isn't that your bottleneck right there?

KeplerBoy 3y ago
That's not the issue. 24VDC power supplies with tens of amperes are not hard to find, they won't be wall warts though. I'm not sure though, if the board can actually put out high power from all 4 ports at the same time. Does anyone know?
- dclowd9901 3y ago
  The supply wire looked like 14awg-ish which seems a little dinky for 20a @12v
  - popol12 3y ago
    https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm looks fine, if it's AWG 14 then it's rated for about 32 amps
    - dclowd9901 3y ago
      I mean, as someone who’s wired entire camper vans, I can tell you that I wouldn’t put 20 amps through 14awg, but I guess it also depends on the wire.
      - popol12 3y ago
        Well, I guess that's the difference between "chassis wiring" and "power transmission" in the table at https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm https://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm It's about how long your wires are going to be, and a desktop electronic project has at least orders of magnitude smaller cable than a van, I'd say.
3y ago

throw0101b 3y ago

Is 240W not enough? > Announced in 2021, the USB PD Revision 3.1 specification is a major update to enable delivering up to 240W of power over full featured USB Type-C® cable and connector. Prior to this update, USB PD was limited to 100W using a solution based on 20V using USB Type-C cables rated at 5A. The USB Type-C specification has also been updated to Release 2.1 to define 240W cable requirements, and with the updated USB PD protocol and power supply definition, this extends the applicability of USB power delivery to a large number of applications where 100W wasn't adequate. * https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd

jauntywundrkind 3y ago
That's not what the article is talking about. The article is talking about needing more outputs, not higher powered output. I do look forward to future iterations of boards like this that support usb-c input. Weird as that is. Basically a power breakout board. And heck, why not throw some usb hubs on it all too?
timenova 3y ago
I think someday it would be amazing to have 1500W to 3000W kettles simply being powered by Type C, and other home appliances too. Wall sockets in most places in the house could simply be the universal Type C port, and since Type C does power negotiation, it'll be safe to connect a low-power appliance to a high-power Type C outlet. The key requirement for this (after the spec comes along) would be high quality high-power rated Type C cables, and safe high-power Type C outlets. No need for each appliance to have different sorts of cables (mostly irreplaceable and fixed length) which don't fit some outlets correctly. Maybe after some regulations, it would even be easy to update the firmware of those home appliances to open source alternatives.
- gubby 3y ago
  Interesting idea, I suspect it isn't possible with the existing connector. You either need to increase the voltage or the current. The new 240W spec is 5A and 50V. Assuming 5A is the thermal limit of the connector and that can't change, to get 1500W you'd need 300V, which is probably higher than the connector can support in terms of conductor spacing.

jauntywundrkind 3y ago

Great board, nice. It's so great that so many of these super small peripherals which would otherwise have walllwarts either just work with usb-c or can use a real simple trigegerboard or pigtail adapter. It's so convenient. And everything becomes incredibly easy to run off battery to boot. It'd be lovely to see a thermal imager of it under load, see how hot parts get & where. Total power is unspecified, but 65w out x 4 ports / 32V input is 8A, which may be possibly perhaps it can sustain but only maybe. I did try to go find this part on the website that's silkscreened on to the board, http://diymore.cc http://diymore.cc , but didn't find it there.

codetrotter 3y ago

I wish more things were USB-C powered. I am currently traveling and among the things I have with me are two Raspberry Pi devices. One with a touch screen, the other with a 5TiB SATA HDD in an enclosure. One of the RPi devices uses 5V power, the other 12V. Both have the same kind of barrel connector. Guess who arrived at an AirBnB a couple of days ago, tired and just wanting to get things quickly unpacked and set up. And guess who forgot which was which of the 5V and 12V powered device and plugged the 12V power cord into the 5V device. That’s right, this guy :( So now my RPi powered device with the 5TiB SATA HDD does not power on anymore, and for all I know plugging the 12V power supply into it may have even broken the circuit board of the HDD, in which case it will be very expensive to get my data back as HDD circuit replacement is outside of my set of skills. I wish all of these electronic I carry just used USB-C instead.

sorenjan 3y ago
You can buy USB-PD trigger boards and make most stuff USB-PD powered. For instance: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006068684294.html https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006068684294.html
- stavros 3y ago
  Well this is amazing, thanks! Do you know if it can output whatever I want by shorting a jumper, or are these fixed when you get them? EDIT: Oh damn, this doesn't do 5V, which is what I need the most :(
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 3y ago
    It looks like you just solder the pads for the maximum voltage you want, and some of the pictures demonstrate what 12v being soldered looks like. And there are definitely 5v options, like these: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805818718384.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805818718384.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805815622101.html https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805815622101.html
    - 3y ago

KingLancelot 3y ago

[dead]

superjan 3y ago

That usb protocol tester looks nice. I recently tested what cable/adapter charged my old iPad the fastest. I suspected cheap clone cables to be worse but from USB A, all performed the same at around 11-12 watts. The best was the macbook usb C charger at 25 watts.

starkparker 3y ago

> There don’t seem to be any powered USB-C hubs Aren't all USB-C hubs with PD "powered"? Like, some output more power to other ports when fed with a power source? For example, I have two Anker hubs, one USB-C with USB-A ports and an unpowered USB-A hub. To get enough power to use the USB-A hub for anything more than basic input devices when connected to the USB-C hub, I have to run a powered connection through the PD port on the USB-C hub.

BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
I think OP meant products that convert 110V mains power into several high-wattage USB-PD receptacles (as opposed to the usual meaning of "USB Hub" for connecting multiple data devices to one USB host port). Anker's best offering in this category runs for $150 and only has 3 USB-C ports (which share a combined 240W limit—good enough for most applications but still not the full PD 3.0 limit of 100W per port, and nowhere near the PD 3.1 limits). A true "power strip" offering 5 or more high-power USB-PD Type-C ports would be nice, though it would need the equivalent of a pretty beefy PC's power supply to drive many simultaneous loads at those limits.
- PokestarFan 3y ago
  I know UGREEN sells some USB-PD charging thing that can output a combined max of 300 W (up to 140 W for a single device): https://www.ugreen.com/products/ugreen-300w-desktop-usb-c-gan-charger https://www.ugreen.com/products/ugreen-300w-desktop-usb-c-ga...

Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago

Why the fuck would you want more stuff powered through the most garbage connector ever made? I know the government is trying to impoverish us by requiring usb-c but you're not supposed to like it. There's even people suggesting using it for resistive heating appliances. Is the article prophetic and the government doesn't want us to have a hot plate to cook anything bigger than a thumbnail?