19 ms·

Having suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered that if I stayed up for two days

Having suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered that if I stayed up for two days, the problem went away. So I knew this a very long time ago; but it always seemed to me that, besides smoking, this was just about one of the worst habits you could develop. By my mid-twenties, I had stopped.

lofaszvanitt 3y ago
Stop coffee/tea/other stimulants maybe, change eating habits maybe, fasting for 1-3 days, change start of sleep, observe the effect. Change one thing at a time.
Waterluvian 3y ago
My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.
- datameta 3y ago
  Try Type III cannabis (high cbd hemp). Nowadays it looks and smells like Type I cannabis (the high thc standard variety of weed). It has all the various combinations of cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavonoids that contribute to the entourage effect except for THC (<0.3%). In many if not most cases it can do what Type I medical cannabis can do. i.e. amongst non-psychoactive hemp flower there are relaxing indicas for insomnia, functional hybrids for chronic pain, sativas for a pick-me-up, etc.
  - pstuart 3y ago
    I've not tried it yet, but CBN seems to be the winner in this category. It's legal in all states if pure. Black Friday is coming and I plan on getting some from a vendor I've used in the past. Ping me for that info if you wish. YMMV.
    - k9unit 3y ago
      Try buying a quarter pound of CBD hemp and turn it into a small amount of concentrated oil. I want to spread the word, this is the way. The best bang for your buck and highest quality oil you can get, better than most commercially available edible products. I wrote some more info and my process on another comment on here. If your interested, I can write more here too.
      - pstuart 3y ago
        I've bought CBD distillate and augmented regular tincture provided by a friend. I used to smoke a lot of weed and can no longer do so (lungs and head have had enough). For actual "head space" it's hard to beat inhaling but one must do what the body needs... I saw your other comment and am intrigued. What do you use to extract with? Ethanol? Glycerine? Link to the tek? As to your other comment about pharma -- I'm a believer in the right tool for the job. "Natural" is always preferred but sometimes the lads in the lab can deliver results too.
        k9unit 3y ago
        I don't have a link to a tek, as I've combined my findings to make the best quality oil with my current understanding and available technology. It's evolved over the batches and is pretty good I think now. Though you could find something similar on the internet. It does use food grade grain alcohol, close to ethanol. I start by grinding the flower to small pieces, or use shake which is significantly less expensive and of similar quality, and matters less if your not gonna smoke it. Next I take 3-3.5 ounces and cook it in the oven. I've tried a few different things. Mason jar or a Pyrex pan. I've done some smaller batches in the past, but now I do 4 ounces at once, a normal size mason jar doesn't usually fit everything. Ive used pickle jars and jalapeno jars which are larger and can fit everything. I heat the oven to 245, and put it in there for an hour, rotating and shaking it every 15 to 20 minutes. Don't cover the jar too tight, as it can explode from pressure. If you use a mason jar, you can use foil with the lid instead of the normal metal cap. I also use a temperature gun on my oven to check on it, many ovens will not be accurate. I only cook 3 ounces because I keep the rest uncooked to use later. Heating the CBDa will turn it into CBD. You probably won't get everything converted, so there will be a little bit left. You'll keep some of the terpenes if you cover what your heating. Some people believe that the terpenes in cannabis, which give it flavor and taste, can be helpful. Personally, I believe that some of them may be helpful, but some of them are harmful, especially when inhaled. Helpful in the way that they could boost the effects or create strain specific effects. Now to the uncooked 0.5-1 ounce, I keep that so I can have CBDa and a little THCa. It's commonly thought that you need to heat these acidic cannabinoids to make them useful, but this is not the case. The acidic version like CBDa and THCa have their own effects, such as a much more powerful anti inflammatory effect, stronger anxiolytic effects, and different serotonin effects. I would also like to add that normal CBD is excellent for blood pressure. If your goal is to get high, then youll probably want to turn your THCa into THC. Leaving some uncooked will also make the final product taste very strongly of the original strain, if your into that. There's another cannabinoid called CBGa, which is the precursor to CBD and THC, when the plant is growing it goes from the enzymes it produces, to CBGa, to THCa (or CBDa), the THCa will then degrade into THC, then finally into CBN. You could make your own CBN by heating THC for a long period of time. Another cool thing you could do is convert CBD into D8-THC with citric acid. I'll also note that CBG/a is supposedly good for your gut health, inflammation, and protects your brain. Ive taken higher doses of CBG, and experienced some irritability when taking it, but I can't confirm that it was from that, I'll have to experiment more in the future. Now onto the next step. Next I take all of the material in the jar, cooked and uncooked, and cover it with 95% food grain alcohol. I use this because it's safe to consume. I assume I can't get 100% of the solvent out later, and using isopropyl or butane would not be safe to consume. So I cover it, shake it up, and stick it in the freezer. Shaking it every so often. You could leave it in for a few hours or days, you might get a little more out. If you leave it for more than a few minutes, you'll get a lot of chlorophyll, which will make the final product very dark due to how light interacts with it. I put it in the freezer to try and reduce this a little bit, but it probably doesn't help too much, nor does it really bother me. After letting it soak in the solvent, I take it out and strain it into a bowl using a nut milk bag, then transfer it to a beaker. Now here is where my process can definitely be improved. Currently, I put the beaker in a pot with a small amount of water, to evaporate off the alcohol. This is kind of wasteful, as you lose the alcohol after now. Instead, and in the future, I would like to set up a distillation apparatus so that I can catch all the evaporating alcohol to use again. I just haven't got the equipment yet. Now you should let all the alcohol be removed from the solution. I keep it at about 120-150 degrees fahrenheit. When it's done, you'll have a small amount of black oil, 15 to 20 grams of pure concentrate. I assume the efficiency is about 85-90% from what we started with. But this isn't all, the oil that is now in the beaker is very thick, it's hard to get it out in its current form. So, take the amount of concentrate you have now, and subtract it from the final amount you want to have. I turn 4 ounces into a 60 ml bottle. Usually I have about 20 grams of concentrate. So Ill use 40 grams here. I have another measuring cup, I fill this with a mixture of MCT oil, grape seed oil, and sunflower lecithin. MCT oil vs grape seed oil is a choice you can make, some people's bodies don't react to MCT oil well (nausea, usually from large doses, 1+ tbsp at once, especially if you've never had it before). I use a combination of all three. The MCT may help with absorption into your body later as well as bind together in the final product better. The sunflower lecithin is an emulsifier, which will help your body absorb it when you take it. Use at least 1/3 sunflower lecithin. These 2 oils also can have positive effects on your health. Now you take this mixture, and heat it up until it's homogeneous. Then dump that into the existing black oil concentrate while still heating it to dilute it to your desired dosage and overall amount. Carefully shake the beaker in a circlular motion to help mix it in. I estimate that with 4 ounces, you'll get about 250-350mg of cannabinoids per gram in the oil. That range depends on your starting material potency and amount. Something else to mention is that eating cannabinoids provides a different effect than smoking them. Your body digests and metabolizes them differently. When it comes to THC, which there will be a small but notable amount of, especially if you have no tolerance, your body will turn it into 11-hydroxy-THC. Depending on your genetics and how well you absorb it (some people can't absorb edibles at all), it will be about 5x stronger than the same amount smoked, while lasting longer. If you don't want any THC, make sure what your getting has none or very little in it. Personally, I don't like taking pure THC strains anymore, but the tiny bit that does occur in CBD dominant hemp, does boost the overall effects in good way unless I take too much. To respond to a few other things you said. Inhaling can have a different head space effect, yes. With that said, eating it does produce a more powerful, sometimes more sedative effect, more psychedelic. The first time I made THC edibles and took them, it felt like the first time I smoked, everything was hilarious and I talked a lot. I also stopped smoking due to my lungs, unfortunately from covid, but I've found now that taking oil is a lot easier to do consistently (primarily CBD), and is much less addictive than smoking (because the act of smoking itself can be addictive), so it feels like less of a "drug". My other comment about pharma may have come off a little harsh. I do believe there is good, but also bad. Some doctors are more empathetic and understanding, while others are there for their job, don't research outside what they already know, and push what they are told to. To be the best, you must have a genuine interest and desire to know more, maybe even an obsession, with whatever it is. Pharmaceuticals certainly have their place, as not everything can be solved with nature. Though I also believe many drugs produced by pharma are designed to be sold and make money, not to cure and help people, which is a conflict of interest.
- Loughla 3y ago
  So I feel like you exactly identified the long term problem in the same paragraph. I learned years ago that any chemical that helps you sleep ensures that you can't sleep without it. I've used everything from thc to Benadryl to lavender and everything in between. It all had the same effects: slowly degrading effectiveness and sleeplessness without it. Pro-tip: find the source of your insomnia. Is it chemical or is it electrical or is it just habit? Doing a real sleep test and working with doctors was life changing. Mine was habit and anxiety. Meditation and therapy have helped. Anecdotal, I know. But what happens when the thc runs out? You crash. That's what I did.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.
    - omginternets 3y ago
      Have you tried exercising (>2h before you go to bed, IME), staying away from screens 4h before bed, and dimming the lights 1h before bed? That was a life-changer for me.
      - _puk 3y ago
        Having to quarantine in a small sauna house after travelling introduced me to the delights of crappy internet, multiple daily cold river swims, and no real lighting outside of a few candles. Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until sunrise, all in the matter of days. Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.
        Aeolun 3y ago
        Almost as if we’re not really built to do anything else :)
- bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
  If you cannot fall asleep without a drug then I'd say the drug has already caused issues
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    well the issue was not being able to fall asleep without a drug so falling asleep with a drug is an improvement
- bdamm 3y ago
  Being unable to sleep is a common withdrawal symptom for cannabis use disorder. Congratulations, you are habituated, and long-term problems are likely accumulating as you are losing out on REM sleep and probably developing emotional and physical conditions related to cannabis use. Good luck!
  - teaearlgraycold 3y ago
    Yeah. I used to smoke a tiny bit every day and it really fucked me up.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    damn, so I'm screwed and I don't even get to enjoy the upsides of cannabis. Rough world.
    - cmyr 3y ago
      I’ve smoked weed before bed most nights for at least a decade, and if I happen to skip a night I… still sleep fine, unless I’ve had no exercise that day.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        What if you skip two weeks? For me skipping one night was always easy, but after a few days that's when I ran into trouble. After one or two weeks it gets better.
  - ta988 3y ago
    Yes, unfortunately that's part of the things that are not told by the people pushing cannabis as a safe drug to use. Maybe it is not deadly, but it is still habit forming and can have extremely negative consequences. I wish people would know more about them.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  I can get to sleep without it. I just can't be sure I'll be able to get to sleep without it. Like 30%-40% odds I'll have serious sleep trouble if I don't take it, so I take it most nights. Amazing stuff, much better than the sleeping pill prescription I had years back (Lunesta).
- 1980phipsi 3y ago
  My brother basically needs THC to sleep. Or strenuous physical activity all day.
  - jackcosgrove 3y ago
    > Or strenuous physical activity all day. The lack of strenuous physical activity all day is a real problem with modern life. We did not evolve to be sedentary.
    - Waterluvian 3y ago
      I’ve added an hour of exercise to my day and while it hasn’t solve my sleeping problems, I can’t live without it anymore. It just makes everything else feel easier.
      - tomcam 3y ago
        Same. Nor does all-day physical activity
- manmal 3y ago
  Tapering off very slowly (over weeks or months) will probably work better than cold turkey.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    I’m just now sure how to taper off. They don’t come in smaller doses than 5mg and that’s where I’m at.
    - manmal 3y ago
      Split it until it’s 0mg.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Hang on, is it working? Didn't you say you take 5mg and it's been working for years at that level? I'd rank that as a win...
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      What form is it in? If its a capsule with dissolved oil, break the capsule and dilute the oil. If it's a solid, just break it. If you can buy a THC tincture, you can easily use dilution and volumetric dosing to titrate your doses down over time.
- nwienert 3y ago
  If you can, try Semaglutide. I am a top % light sleeper - hard to sleep, inconsistent, never could sleep outside of basically ideal conditions. Was prescribed Tirzepatide (similar to Semaglutide) and it fixed my sleep like nothing else has - I actually feel tired at a normal hour and doze off, two thing I never really did before. At the lowest dose you won't lose weight beyond the first few months, and you can maintain weight with small effort even still. So even if you are completely healthy weight, it could be useful. I wouldn't normally think recommending a totally unrelated drug for sleep issues would be sane, but it also happens to have a ton of other positive effects for me at least. And the safety profile seems solid, esp compared to other sleep drugs. Plus not psychoactive and actually reduces your addictive behaviors especially in terms of nicotine/THC. Certainly a lot better side effect profile than THC (imo, from research).
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    I appreciate this greatly. After reading a lot of these comments I think I’m smart enough to realize it’s time to get help. I’ll speak with them about this idea and others.
    - heavyset_go 3y ago
      A lot of "help" in this space are things like z-drugs, benzos, antihistamines like hydroxyzine, low doses of atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, and antidepressants like Trazodone and mirtazapine. IMO, THC can be the lesser of two evils in comparison.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- pstuart 3y ago
  You'll get plenty of advice and it's worth evaluating it all (as we're all different), but trazodone has been a miracle worker in aiding sleep. It's cheap, well understood, and the only negative aspect I've encountered is the risk of priapism (which can sound like a joke but should be taken very seriously)
  - nwienert 3y ago
    Trazodone felt like a Nuke to me, tried it for sleep but whew what a crazy strong (bad) feeling it gave me.
    - yunwal 3y ago
      I’m glad to be seeing this because I went down all the way to 25mg. My doctor said there was no way I was getting side effects at that dose, but I felt awful every morning for the first 4 or 5 hours of the day.
      - olyjohn 3y ago
        Everybody has different side effects. My ADHD meds have basically had horrible effects for me that slowly crept in over a matter of months. Like it was so slow I had no idea it was from the meds. I was on low doses that should not have caused any side effects according to my doc.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Did nothing for me
    - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
      Same. All it did was give me an incredible hangover the next day, blurry vision, tremors, and — scariest of all — made me feel sad. Had to quit within a week. Glad it works for others, but easily one of the worst things I've ever tried.
- yankoff 3y ago
  I had a period when I used THC (edibles) for sleep every night. This was one of the worst things I have ever done to myself. At first, you don't notice much side effects, but slowly it creeps up on you. It makes you depressed, depletes of any motivation, gives brain fog and you may just feel weird over all. When I quit I was amazed by how much better I started feeling and by how much my cognitive function improved. I would highly recommend getting off it asap. Maybe taper off if you can't quit right away. First nights will be tough: sleepless, cold sweats, crazy dreams, but then it should get much much better. Be well!
  - ben_jones 3y ago
    ~10 years from now we’re going to have better data on chronic THC consumption and after being a heavy user I’m pretty confident it’s going to shock a lot of people with negative externalities. Tip for getting off weed - start by lowering the damn dosage. A lot of commonly used products are the equivalent of a triple shot. And folks do it daily.
    - k9unit 3y ago
      I used to use THC heavily, but the negative effect was noticable in multiple aspects. So I stopped for a while. Now I take full spectrum CBD oil that I make myself. It has a low amount of THC in it, which boosts the overall effects. It's a much better experience than taking high THC strains imo.
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
    >It makes you depressed, depletes of any motivation, gives brain fog and you may just feel weird over all YMMV. That's me after a sleepless night.
  - drzaiusapelord 3y ago
    Its odd to me that the "logical" and "scientific" types, or self-styled types, sing the praises of cannabis, but there's no mechanism in evolution to make this a healthy drug for us. Its just an accident of history it makes us high and that obviously comes with many costs as the blind watchmaker of evolution had no template for any of this. Of course the drug war was a classist and racist thing and ultimately a failure because its propaganda couldn't keep up with people's desire for cannabis and the truth on how its far less dangerous than they were told. But to win politically you need to go big, so now we've over-corrected into cannabis being entirely harmless or even being a wonderdrug and cure-all, which obviously isn't true. I see people on reddit recommend it for any number of health issues which I think is reckless and ignorant. A lot of these people have health issues that need to be treated. Covering up these issues with cannabis isn't going to help in the long run. Worse, almost zero discussion on how cannabis can trigger lifelong schizophrenia for people who have schizophrenia in their family and have latest schizophrenia that otherwise would have remained dormant for a long time, even the rest of their lives. It reminds me a bit of the crony capitalism that kept stevia from being used as a sweetener. Society over-corrected with that as well, and honestly it tastes kinda terrible. And like all sweetners, who knows if its healthy. I don't think the blind watchmaker was expecting sweetness with no calories the same way she didn't expect being able to artificially shoot up your dopamine and serotonin with things like cannabis. I don't think modern people realize how unbelievably delicate our bodies and mind are and how many 'ordinary' things are reckless and risky experimentation on us. I think we're still in this 19th century mindset of "conquering nature with science," which is obviously a pretty flawed premise and poor social philosophy. I'm not sure if its even possible for a capitalist technological society to leave that mindset.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Look into weaker THC analogues like delta-8-THC or delta-10-THC. They have weaker binding profiles and half-lives than normal THC does. Same thing with CBD and its analogues. CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is, so it doesn't get you high.
  - ta988 3y ago
    Don't use delta 8 none of that stuff is purified it is a giant mess. There are a ton of articles on the analysis of d8.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
thowaway91234 3y ago
I recently was forced off of SSRIs after nearly ten years because I lost my psychiatrist and couldn't get a new one because the waitlists were ridiculous. After 10 years on them, the next 6 months were absolute hell (i legit thought at one point I might go full Joaquin Phoenix in Joker) but I made it through, no small part thanks to my wonderful amazing wife. Rebound depression have been an issue - though in general I feel like I am much better off without the antidepressants now than with them - and I've also noticed that pulling an all nighter would actually fix the rebounds for a bit. A small dose of melatonin before bed worked wonders for me now. I sleep better and the rebounds are extremely rare.
- erikpukinskis 3y ago
  Just a side note for anyone reading: you can get an SSRI prescription from your GP (general practitioner i.e. normal doctor) you don’t need to go through a psychiatrist. This is especially true if you are at risk for withdrawal, they will want to prevent that.
  - fsckboy 3y ago
    any medical doctor of any specialization can legally prescribe anything. that doesn't make it a good idea. a piece of supporting evidence is that the doctor's malpractice insurance may not cover any "cowboy" prescribing tendencies.
    - ksenzee 3y ago
      GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs. Even pediatricians. At least in the US.
      - H8crilA 3y ago
        A lot of non-psychiatrist doctors prescribe SSRIs around the world, and that's a very good thing. These drugs are safe.
        3y ago
PreachSoup 3y ago
Seems that I'm in the opposite. If I don't get enough sleep I would have noticeable bad mood.
- waterhouse 3y ago
  I think, here, there is an effect from "zero sleep" that you don't get from "not enough sleep" (which I'm guessing is at least a couple of hours).
- timthelion 3y ago
  Bad mood isn't the same as chronic depression though...
- Aurornis 3y ago
  The depression altering effect requires total sleep deprivation, or at least missing most of certain part of the night. Getting 4-6 hours of sleep generally won't do it. You really have to upset the whole system to trigger the effect. Which is also why it's completely unsustainable. More of a novelty and research topic, not an actual treatment.
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    >More of a novelty and research topic, not an actual treatment. Sleep deprivation can be legitimately useful in crisis situations. Before the discovery of ketamine as a rapid-acting antidepressant, sleep deprivation was one of the only effective treatment options for an acutely suicidal patient. It doesn't solve anything long-term, but it can at least give the patient a bit of respite from their distress and perhaps engender a little hope.
whatindaheck 3y ago
I usually start to feel normal late into the night. After 11pm the depression and disassociation fades away. My mood brightens. I feel like I have infinite energy and easily stay up until 5am. It’s a strange rollercoaster. It really isn’t sustainable…as I lost a really good job over it. Now I’m sticking to a schedule with 8 hours of sleep but I don’t ever get that “feel good” kick. Just perpetually drained and unmotivated.
- mycall 3y ago
  [Look for|Make a] night job and merge your favorite parts in life?
martin82 3y ago
Try the carnivore diet for 30 days. Eat eggs, beef, butter, plenty of salt, greek yoghurt, blueberries, walnuts. Drink only water (with a slice of lemon to break the monotony) and green tea. Thank me later.
- 400thecat 3y ago
  What you are describing is not a carnivore diet, not even paleo diet (yoghurt!). To try carnivore elimination diet, you should eat nothing else than beef, salt and water for at least 30 days.
  - kridsdale3 3y ago
    You should probably take a multivitamin with that, if you don't want scurvy.

lofaszvanitt 3y ago

Stop coffee/tea/other stimulants maybe, change eating habits maybe, fasting for 1-3 days, change start of sleep, observe the effect. Change one thing at a time.

Waterluvian 3y ago

My anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.

datameta 3y ago
Try Type III cannabis (high cbd hemp). Nowadays it looks and smells like Type I cannabis (the high thc standard variety of weed). It has all the various combinations of cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavonoids that contribute to the entourage effect except for THC (<0.3%). In many if not most cases it can do what Type I medical cannabis can do. i.e. amongst non-psychoactive hemp flower there are relaxing indicas for insomnia, functional hybrids for chronic pain, sativas for a pick-me-up, etc.
- pstuart 3y ago
  I've not tried it yet, but CBN seems to be the winner in this category. It's legal in all states if pure. Black Friday is coming and I plan on getting some from a vendor I've used in the past. Ping me for that info if you wish. YMMV.
  - k9unit 3y ago
    Try buying a quarter pound of CBD hemp and turn it into a small amount of concentrated oil. I want to spread the word, this is the way. The best bang for your buck and highest quality oil you can get, better than most commercially available edible products. I wrote some more info and my process on another comment on here. If your interested, I can write more here too.
    - pstuart 3y ago
      I've bought CBD distillate and augmented regular tincture provided by a friend. I used to smoke a lot of weed and can no longer do so (lungs and head have had enough). For actual "head space" it's hard to beat inhaling but one must do what the body needs... I saw your other comment and am intrigued. What do you use to extract with? Ethanol? Glycerine? Link to the tek? As to your other comment about pharma -- I'm a believer in the right tool for the job. "Natural" is always preferred but sometimes the lads in the lab can deliver results too.
      - k9unit 3y ago
        I don't have a link to a tek, as I've combined my findings to make the best quality oil with my current understanding and available technology. It's evolved over the batches and is pretty good I think now. Though you could find something similar on the internet. It does use food grade grain alcohol, close to ethanol. I start by grinding the flower to small pieces, or use shake which is significantly less expensive and of similar quality, and matters less if your not gonna smoke it. Next I take 3-3.5 ounces and cook it in the oven. I've tried a few different things. Mason jar or a Pyrex pan. I've done some smaller batches in the past, but now I do 4 ounces at once, a normal size mason jar doesn't usually fit everything. Ive used pickle jars and jalapeno jars which are larger and can fit everything. I heat the oven to 245, and put it in there for an hour, rotating and shaking it every 15 to 20 minutes. Don't cover the jar too tight, as it can explode from pressure. If you use a mason jar, you can use foil with the lid instead of the normal metal cap. I also use a temperature gun on my oven to check on it, many ovens will not be accurate. I only cook 3 ounces because I keep the rest uncooked to use later. Heating the CBDa will turn it into CBD. You probably won't get everything converted, so there will be a little bit left. You'll keep some of the terpenes if you cover what your heating. Some people believe that the terpenes in cannabis, which give it flavor and taste, can be helpful. Personally, I believe that some of them may be helpful, but some of them are harmful, especially when inhaled. Helpful in the way that they could boost the effects or create strain specific effects. Now to the uncooked 0.5-1 ounce, I keep that so I can have CBDa and a little THCa. It's commonly thought that you need to heat these acidic cannabinoids to make them useful, but this is not the case. The acidic version like CBDa and THCa have their own effects, such as a much more powerful anti inflammatory effect, stronger anxiolytic effects, and different serotonin effects. I would also like to add that normal CBD is excellent for blood pressure. If your goal is to get high, then youll probably want to turn your THCa into THC. Leaving some uncooked will also make the final product taste very strongly of the original strain, if your into that. There's another cannabinoid called CBGa, which is the precursor to CBD and THC, when the plant is growing it goes from the enzymes it produces, to CBGa, to THCa (or CBDa), the THCa will then degrade into THC, then finally into CBN. You could make your own CBN by heating THC for a long period of time. Another cool thing you could do is convert CBD into D8-THC with citric acid. I'll also note that CBG/a is supposedly good for your gut health, inflammation, and protects your brain. Ive taken higher doses of CBG, and experienced some irritability when taking it, but I can't confirm that it was from that, I'll have to experiment more in the future. Now onto the next step. Next I take all of the material in the jar, cooked and uncooked, and cover it with 95% food grain alcohol. I use this because it's safe to consume. I assume I can't get 100% of the solvent out later, and using isopropyl or butane would not be safe to consume. So I cover it, shake it up, and stick it in the freezer. Shaking it every so often. You could leave it in for a few hours or days, you might get a little more out. If you leave it for more than a few minutes, you'll get a lot of chlorophyll, which will make the final product very dark due to how light interacts with it. I put it in the freezer to try and reduce this a little bit, but it probably doesn't help too much, nor does it really bother me. After letting it soak in the solvent, I take it out and strain it into a bowl using a nut milk bag, then transfer it to a beaker. Now here is where my process can definitely be improved. Currently, I put the beaker in a pot with a small amount of water, to evaporate off the alcohol. This is kind of wasteful, as you lose the alcohol after now. Instead, and in the future, I would like to set up a distillation apparatus so that I can catch all the evaporating alcohol to use again. I just haven't got the equipment yet. Now you should let all the alcohol be removed from the solution. I keep it at about 120-150 degrees fahrenheit. When it's done, you'll have a small amount of black oil, 15 to 20 grams of pure concentrate. I assume the efficiency is about 85-90% from what we started with. But this isn't all, the oil that is now in the beaker is very thick, it's hard to get it out in its current form. So, take the amount of concentrate you have now, and subtract it from the final amount you want to have. I turn 4 ounces into a 60 ml bottle. Usually I have about 20 grams of concentrate. So Ill use 40 grams here. I have another measuring cup, I fill this with a mixture of MCT oil, grape seed oil, and sunflower lecithin. MCT oil vs grape seed oil is a choice you can make, some people's bodies don't react to MCT oil well (nausea, usually from large doses, 1+ tbsp at once, especially if you've never had it before). I use a combination of all three. The MCT may help with absorption into your body later as well as bind together in the final product better. The sunflower lecithin is an emulsifier, which will help your body absorb it when you take it. Use at least 1/3 sunflower lecithin. These 2 oils also can have positive effects on your health. Now you take this mixture, and heat it up until it's homogeneous. Then dump that into the existing black oil concentrate while still heating it to dilute it to your desired dosage and overall amount. Carefully shake the beaker in a circlular motion to help mix it in. I estimate that with 4 ounces, you'll get about 250-350mg of cannabinoids per gram in the oil. That range depends on your starting material potency and amount. Something else to mention is that eating cannabinoids provides a different effect than smoking them. Your body digests and metabolizes them differently. When it comes to THC, which there will be a small but notable amount of, especially if you have no tolerance, your body will turn it into 11-hydroxy-THC. Depending on your genetics and how well you absorb it (some people can't absorb edibles at all), it will be about 5x stronger than the same amount smoked, while lasting longer. If you don't want any THC, make sure what your getting has none or very little in it. Personally, I don't like taking pure THC strains anymore, but the tiny bit that does occur in CBD dominant hemp, does boost the overall effects in good way unless I take too much. To respond to a few other things you said. Inhaling can have a different head space effect, yes. With that said, eating it does produce a more powerful, sometimes more sedative effect, more psychedelic. The first time I made THC edibles and took them, it felt like the first time I smoked, everything was hilarious and I talked a lot. I also stopped smoking due to my lungs, unfortunately from covid, but I've found now that taking oil is a lot easier to do consistently (primarily CBD), and is much less addictive than smoking (because the act of smoking itself can be addictive), so it feels like less of a "drug". My other comment about pharma may have come off a little harsh. I do believe there is good, but also bad. Some doctors are more empathetic and understanding, while others are there for their job, don't research outside what they already know, and push what they are told to. To be the best, you must have a genuine interest and desire to know more, maybe even an obsession, with whatever it is. Pharmaceuticals certainly have their place, as not everything can be solved with nature. Though I also believe many drugs produced by pharma are designed to be sold and make money, not to cure and help people, which is a conflict of interest.
Loughla 3y ago
So I feel like you exactly identified the long term problem in the same paragraph. I learned years ago that any chemical that helps you sleep ensures that you can't sleep without it. I've used everything from thc to Benadryl to lavender and everything in between. It all had the same effects: slowly degrading effectiveness and sleeplessness without it. Pro-tip: find the source of your insomnia. Is it chemical or is it electrical or is it just habit? Doing a real sleep test and working with doctors was life changing. Mine was habit and anxiety. Meditation and therapy have helped. Anecdotal, I know. But what happens when the thc runs out? You crash. That's what I did.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  Yeah. I’ve tried. My problem is that 3-4 days of no sleep and I’m just about ready to sign off from this life. I’ve managed with 5mg THC pills for years. Never had to increase the dosage. I’ve never ever slept well. But back before kids it was easier to just sleep in if I had to. As best as I can tell, the cause is my adhd or related. My brain will simply. Not. Stop. Racing.
  - omginternets 3y ago
    Have you tried exercising (>2h before you go to bed, IME), staying away from screens 4h before bed, and dimming the lights 1h before bed? That was a life-changer for me.
    - _puk 3y ago
      Having to quarantine in a small sauna house after travelling introduced me to the delights of crappy internet, multiple daily cold river swims, and no real lighting outside of a few candles. Needless to say I went from awful sleep to going to bed as the sun went down (in summer), and not waking up until sunrise, all in the matter of days. Thinking back on it, I really should get back into that.
      - Aeolun 3y ago
        Almost as if we’re not really built to do anything else :)
bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
If you cannot fall asleep without a drug then I'd say the drug has already caused issues
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  well the issue was not being able to fall asleep without a drug so falling asleep with a drug is an improvement
bdamm 3y ago
Being unable to sleep is a common withdrawal symptom for cannabis use disorder. Congratulations, you are habituated, and long-term problems are likely accumulating as you are losing out on REM sleep and probably developing emotional and physical conditions related to cannabis use. Good luck!
- teaearlgraycold 3y ago
  Yeah. I used to smoke a tiny bit every day and it really fucked me up.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  damn, so I'm screwed and I don't even get to enjoy the upsides of cannabis. Rough world.
  - cmyr 3y ago
    I’ve smoked weed before bed most nights for at least a decade, and if I happen to skip a night I… still sleep fine, unless I’ve had no exercise that day.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      What if you skip two weeks? For me skipping one night was always easy, but after a few days that's when I ran into trouble. After one or two weeks it gets better.
- ta988 3y ago
  Yes, unfortunately that's part of the things that are not told by the people pushing cannabis as a safe drug to use. Maybe it is not deadly, but it is still habit forming and can have extremely negative consequences. I wish people would know more about them.
hotnfresh 3y ago
I can get to sleep without it. I just can't be sure I'll be able to get to sleep without it. Like 30%-40% odds I'll have serious sleep trouble if I don't take it, so I take it most nights. Amazing stuff, much better than the sleeping pill prescription I had years back (Lunesta).
1980phipsi 3y ago
My brother basically needs THC to sleep. Or strenuous physical activity all day.
- jackcosgrove 3y ago
  > Or strenuous physical activity all day. The lack of strenuous physical activity all day is a real problem with modern life. We did not evolve to be sedentary.
  - Waterluvian 3y ago
    I’ve added an hour of exercise to my day and while it hasn’t solve my sleeping problems, I can’t live without it anymore. It just makes everything else feel easier.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Same. Nor does all-day physical activity
manmal 3y ago
Tapering off very slowly (over weeks or months) will probably work better than cold turkey.
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  I’m just now sure how to taper off. They don’t come in smaller doses than 5mg and that’s where I’m at.
  - manmal 3y ago
    Split it until it’s 0mg.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Hang on, is it working? Didn't you say you take 5mg and it's been working for years at that level? I'd rank that as a win...
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    What form is it in? If its a capsule with dissolved oil, break the capsule and dilute the oil. If it's a solid, just break it. If you can buy a THC tincture, you can easily use dilution and volumetric dosing to titrate your doses down over time.
nwienert 3y ago
If you can, try Semaglutide. I am a top % light sleeper - hard to sleep, inconsistent, never could sleep outside of basically ideal conditions. Was prescribed Tirzepatide (similar to Semaglutide) and it fixed my sleep like nothing else has - I actually feel tired at a normal hour and doze off, two thing I never really did before. At the lowest dose you won't lose weight beyond the first few months, and you can maintain weight with small effort even still. So even if you are completely healthy weight, it could be useful. I wouldn't normally think recommending a totally unrelated drug for sleep issues would be sane, but it also happens to have a ton of other positive effects for me at least. And the safety profile seems solid, esp compared to other sleep drugs. Plus not psychoactive and actually reduces your addictive behaviors especially in terms of nicotine/THC. Certainly a lot better side effect profile than THC (imo, from research).
- Waterluvian 3y ago
  I appreciate this greatly. After reading a lot of these comments I think I’m smart enough to realize it’s time to get help. I’ll speak with them about this idea and others.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    A lot of "help" in this space are things like z-drugs, benzos, antihistamines like hydroxyzine, low doses of atypical antipsychotics like Seroquel, and antidepressants like Trazodone and mirtazapine. IMO, THC can be the lesser of two evils in comparison.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
pstuart 3y ago
You'll get plenty of advice and it's worth evaluating it all (as we're all different), but trazodone has been a miracle worker in aiding sleep. It's cheap, well understood, and the only negative aspect I've encountered is the risk of priapism (which can sound like a joke but should be taken very seriously)
- nwienert 3y ago
  Trazodone felt like a Nuke to me, tried it for sleep but whew what a crazy strong (bad) feeling it gave me.
  - yunwal 3y ago
    I’m glad to be seeing this because I went down all the way to 25mg. My doctor said there was no way I was getting side effects at that dose, but I felt awful every morning for the first 4 or 5 hours of the day.
    - olyjohn 3y ago
      Everybody has different side effects. My ADHD meds have basically had horrible effects for me that slowly crept in over a matter of months. Like it was so slow I had no idea it was from the meds. I was on low doses that should not have caused any side effects according to my doc.
- tomcam 3y ago
  Did nothing for me
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
    Same. All it did was give me an incredible hangover the next day, blurry vision, tremors, and — scariest of all — made me feel sad. Had to quit within a week. Glad it works for others, but easily one of the worst things I've ever tried.
yankoff 3y ago
I had a period when I used THC (edibles) for sleep every night. This was one of the worst things I have ever done to myself. At first, you don't notice much side effects, but slowly it creeps up on you. It makes you depressed, depletes of any motivation, gives brain fog and you may just feel weird over all. When I quit I was amazed by how much better I started feeling and by how much my cognitive function improved. I would highly recommend getting off it asap. Maybe taper off if you can't quit right away. First nights will be tough: sleepless, cold sweats, crazy dreams, but then it should get much much better. Be well!
- ben_jones 3y ago
  ~10 years from now we’re going to have better data on chronic THC consumption and after being a heavy user I’m pretty confident it’s going to shock a lot of people with negative externalities. Tip for getting off weed - start by lowering the damn dosage. A lot of commonly used products are the equivalent of a triple shot. And folks do it daily.
  - k9unit 3y ago
    I used to use THC heavily, but the negative effect was noticable in multiple aspects. So I stopped for a while. Now I take full spectrum CBD oil that I make myself. It has a low amount of THC in it, which boosts the overall effects. It's a much better experience than taking high THC strains imo.
- ProfessorLayton 3y ago
  >It makes you depressed, depletes of any motivation, gives brain fog and you may just feel weird over all YMMV. That's me after a sleepless night.
- drzaiusapelord 3y ago
  Its odd to me that the "logical" and "scientific" types, or self-styled types, sing the praises of cannabis, but there's no mechanism in evolution to make this a healthy drug for us. Its just an accident of history it makes us high and that obviously comes with many costs as the blind watchmaker of evolution had no template for any of this. Of course the drug war was a classist and racist thing and ultimately a failure because its propaganda couldn't keep up with people's desire for cannabis and the truth on how its far less dangerous than they were told. But to win politically you need to go big, so now we've over-corrected into cannabis being entirely harmless or even being a wonderdrug and cure-all, which obviously isn't true. I see people on reddit recommend it for any number of health issues which I think is reckless and ignorant. A lot of these people have health issues that need to be treated. Covering up these issues with cannabis isn't going to help in the long run. Worse, almost zero discussion on how cannabis can trigger lifelong schizophrenia for people who have schizophrenia in their family and have latest schizophrenia that otherwise would have remained dormant for a long time, even the rest of their lives. It reminds me a bit of the crony capitalism that kept stevia from being used as a sweetener. Society over-corrected with that as well, and honestly it tastes kinda terrible. And like all sweetners, who knows if its healthy. I don't think the blind watchmaker was expecting sweetness with no calories the same way she didn't expect being able to artificially shoot up your dopamine and serotonin with things like cannabis. I don't think modern people realize how unbelievably delicate our bodies and mind are and how many 'ordinary' things are reckless and risky experimentation on us. I think we're still in this 19th century mindset of "conquering nature with science," which is obviously a pretty flawed premise and poor social philosophy. I'm not sure if its even possible for a capitalist technological society to leave that mindset.
heavyset_go 3y ago
Look into weaker THC analogues like delta-8-THC or delta-10-THC. They have weaker binding profiles and half-lives than normal THC does. Same thing with CBD and its analogues. CBN will knock me out and it isn't active at CB1 like THC is, so it doesn't get you high.
- ta988 3y ago
  Don't use delta 8 none of that stuff is purified it is a giant mess. There are a ton of articles on the analysis of d8.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

thowaway91234 3y ago

I recently was forced off of SSRIs after nearly ten years because I lost my psychiatrist and couldn't get a new one because the waitlists were ridiculous. After 10 years on them, the next 6 months were absolute hell (i legit thought at one point I might go full Joaquin Phoenix in Joker) but I made it through, no small part thanks to my wonderful amazing wife. Rebound depression have been an issue - though in general I feel like I am much better off without the antidepressants now than with them - and I've also noticed that pulling an all nighter would actually fix the rebounds for a bit. A small dose of melatonin before bed worked wonders for me now. I sleep better and the rebounds are extremely rare.

erikpukinskis 3y ago
Just a side note for anyone reading: you can get an SSRI prescription from your GP (general practitioner i.e. normal doctor) you don’t need to go through a psychiatrist. This is especially true if you are at risk for withdrawal, they will want to prevent that.
- fsckboy 3y ago
  any medical doctor of any specialization can legally prescribe anything. that doesn't make it a good idea. a piece of supporting evidence is that the doctor's malpractice insurance may not cover any "cowboy" prescribing tendencies.
  - ksenzee 3y ago
    GPs routinely prescribe SSRIs. Even pediatricians. At least in the US.
    - H8crilA 3y ago
      A lot of non-psychiatrist doctors prescribe SSRIs around the world, and that's a very good thing. These drugs are safe.
      - 3y ago

PreachSoup 3y ago

Seems that I'm in the opposite. If I don't get enough sleep I would have noticeable bad mood.

waterhouse 3y ago
I think, here, there is an effect from "zero sleep" that you don't get from "not enough sleep" (which I'm guessing is at least a couple of hours).
timthelion 3y ago
Bad mood isn't the same as chronic depression though...
Aurornis 3y ago
The depression altering effect requires total sleep deprivation, or at least missing most of certain part of the night. Getting 4-6 hours of sleep generally won't do it. You really have to upset the whole system to trigger the effect. Which is also why it's completely unsustainable. More of a novelty and research topic, not an actual treatment.
- jdietrich 3y ago
  >More of a novelty and research topic, not an actual treatment. Sleep deprivation can be legitimately useful in crisis situations. Before the discovery of ketamine as a rapid-acting antidepressant, sleep deprivation was one of the only effective treatment options for an acutely suicidal patient. It doesn't solve anything long-term, but it can at least give the patient a bit of respite from their distress and perhaps engender a little hope.

whatindaheck 3y ago

I usually start to feel normal late into the night. After 11pm the depression and disassociation fades away. My mood brightens. I feel like I have infinite energy and easily stay up until 5am. It’s a strange rollercoaster. It really isn’t sustainable…as I lost a really good job over it. Now I’m sticking to a schedule with 8 hours of sleep but I don’t ever get that “feel good” kick. Just perpetually drained and unmotivated.

mycall 3y ago
[Look for|Make a] night job and merge your favorite parts in life?

martin82 3y ago

Try the carnivore diet for 30 days. Eat eggs, beef, butter, plenty of salt, greek yoghurt, blueberries, walnuts. Drink only water (with a slice of lemon to break the monotony) and green tea. Thank me later.

400thecat 3y ago
What you are describing is not a carnivore diet, not even paleo diet (yoghurt!). To try carnivore elimination diet, you should eat nothing else than beef, salt and water for at least 30 days.
- kridsdale3 3y ago
  You should probably take a multivitamin with that, if you don't want scurvy.