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U.N. votes to end US embargo on Cuba; US and Israel oppose
- riffic 3y ago> non-binding resolution
- gustavus 3y ago> HAVANA, Nov 2 (Reuters) - The U.N. General Assembly called for the 31st time on the United States to end its decades-long trade embargo against Cuba as the communist-run island suffers its worst economic crisis in decades, with shortages of food, fuel and medicine. So for the 31st time they've asked the US to end the embargo again, that's a little less newsworthy.
- justrealist 3y agoThe US embargo is not effective or a good idea, but there are a lot of countries perfectly free to trade with Cuba, the UN noise here is really pretty goofy. With the exception of maybe medicine (not that the US is known for low-price drugs) these are all highly fungible goods and direct trade with the US has no impact on their availability in Cuba.
- ianferrel 3y ago>direct trade with the US has no impact on their availability in Cuba. This is factually very wrong. The US uses a variety of methods to enforce the embargo, including sanctions on multinational corporations that provide goods to Cuba and pressure on other governments that the US provides funds or support to in other contexts (which is a lot of countries). It's not nearly as simple as "oh, Cuba can just buy the goods from other countries". Better hope that none of those goods are made by a company that has any legal presence in the US. Also there are like 6 decades worth of laws involved here, so before you think about selling goods to Cuba, better hire a dozen very expensive lawyers.
- wolverine876 3y agoAlso, the US is by far the largest producer and buyer of goods in the region, as well as by far the largest source of finance and services. It would be difficult to have a successful economy without trading with the US.
- Jensson 3y ago> the largest source of finance Cuba being communist doesn't allow outside investments and they don't have any problems getting regular loans, so US financing wouldn't help their economy much at all.
- wolverine876 3y agoWhat is that based on? Who doesn't have problems getting loans? Everyone in Cuba?
- Jensson 3y agoThe government of Cuba doesn't have problems getting loans. For private citizens the biggest obstacle for them getting loans is the Cuban government not liking private enterprises or ownership, not the embargo. Cuba is moving towards a capitalist economy so it isn't that bad today though.
- wolverine876 3y agoAgain, what is that based on? Also, you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that?
- Jensson 3y ago> Again, what is that based on? They run a trade deficit of billions each year. How can they import goods for billions without being able to take on debt? Their debt is also increasing by billions per year. They wouldn't be able to do that if they couldn't get loans. > you said the Cuban government doesn't allow outside investments - where did you learn that? I based it on this from the wikipedia page: "In February 2016, the US government allowed two American men from Alabama to build a factory that will assemble as many as 1,000 small tractors a year for sale to private farmers in Cuba. The $5 million to $10 million plant would be the first significant US business investment on Cuban soil since 1959.[55][56] The deal was not authorized by Cuban authorities later that year because one of the owners had recently obtained Cuban citizenship. Factory ownership is still illegal in Cuba.[57]" I see now that I was mistaken. The problem was that Cuba doesn't allow their citizens to own means of production, foreign investors owning stuff is somehow more okay. Their legal landscape from foreign investors is still in the works though, not many wants to invest there when Cuba can just take whatever they built there at any point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20embargo%20against,trade%20embargo%20in%20modern%20history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_....
- tick_tock_tick 3y agoI kinda want us to end the embargo just so the failures of the state of Cuba stopped being blamed on the USA.
- 26fingies 3y agoSo your hypothesis is that a country under decades of embargo would somehow do worse or at least no better after that embargo is lifted?
- pfannkuchen 3y agoJust that they expect it to keep failing, I think. Presumably there is some threshold for success, and a slight enough improvement would still constitute failure.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- salamanderss 3y agoHmm seems possible although unlikely. Last time we had more than a decade of free trade with Cuba we had quite the incentive to support Batista and various us interest dictators. The embargo probably helps keep certain interests out of their hair.
- hezralig 3y agoI also am fairly confused by that point. Cuba is effectively maintaining itself under an international embargo and somehow trains medical professionals from even the United States. Cuba also designed and produced multiple COVID vaccines that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. I am fairly impressed by what Cuba has accomplished under these conditions and resent how difficult the US has made it to vacation there (buying +1 hop of a plane ticket through Mexico). I go to Cuba from time to time for free health checks ups and cheap healthcare.
- riku_iki 3y ago> maintaining itself this is not the best success metric in the modern world. > that have held up compared to the vaccines rolled out globally. probably according to Cuban government.
- axlee 3y agoI still do not understand what the US might get out of this in 2023.
- HDThoreaun 3y agoIt's all about politics. There is a very strong anti-cuba lobby in the US
- codetrotter 3y agoBuy why?
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoI suspect it’s mostly Cuban Americans in south Florida. No idea what Israel’s interest is.
- hotnfresh 3y agoCheap way to pay back a patron, to vote with them on issues that don't matter to you at all.
- iamjake648 3y agoMilitary Aid.
- bawolff 3y agoUn general assembly votes are almost always about politics and not what the vote is actually about. They are essentially popularity contests. I imagine in this case, usa has recently given israel a ton of support in its time of need so they want to be positive towards its interests.
- ryandrake 3y agoIsrael is essentially the 51st USA state. They will always vote in lock-step with each other on everything, regardless of worldwide support or lack of support.
- adolph 3y agoDoes the US have outstanding claims against the current Cuban government that leaves the embargo in place? Was there an end state or goal to the embargo? Does the Cuban government restrict trade with the US or any other countries?
- salamanderss 3y agoCop killing fugitives iirc, that Cubans won't hand over (Assata Shakur et al)
- nraynaud 3y agoFrance has an US citizen in custody for killing an abortion doctor in the US. Can't extradite him because that would be accessory to death penalty, which a European treaty forbids, I don't remember if the US sent the file to procecute him in France. I don't think France is under embargo.
- bawolff 3y agoCan't you just promise not to kill him? Canada also refuses to extradite people to places with the death penalty unless they promise not to use it, but extradites to usa all the time.
- stephen_g 3y agoUS diplomatic assurances aren't considered reliable (e.g. [1], also you can look up the case of David Mendoza). My understanding is that the State Department makes the promises, and then the Justice Department's policy is to assume that since their department didn't make the assurances, that the assurances that were made don't actually apply to them. 1. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/07/the-us-diplomatic-assurances-are-inherently-unreliable-julian-assange-must-be-released/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2021/07/the-us-diplom...
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
- rich_sasha 3y agoIt's quite sad. I really do broadly think of the US as "the good guys". And where they are not perfect, they tend to be better than most. But things like this, and similar heavy handed botch jobs that America then continues to double down on... really sting. Especially since, if you are a liberal, small "d" democrat, there isn't much alternative for world leadership. The EU is too sleepy to do it, and most of the other players (Russia, China, India etc) are either illiberal or focused on internal problems. So even when the US decides to continue to dish out collective punishment on a nation with rich culture and history, even then there isn't much alternative to it.
- cpursley 3y ago> they tend to be better than most Domestically, maybe. Internationally, well - ask those on the receiving end of US geopolitical and military shenanigans.
- preciousoo 3y agoEven the word maybe is doing a lot of heavy lifting
- HDThoreaun 3y agoAsk anyone on the receiving end of any geopolitical or military shenanigans how they feel about it. Most nations are far more disrespectful toward other nations they get involved with, they just have less power.
- cpursley 3y agoHow many nations has China bombed in Africa? They’re quite involved there - building infrastructure, laying rail. Can you point to any US funded infrastructure projects there in the last 20 years?
- rich_sasha 3y agoWell, clearly. That's my point: that paired with, IMO, a really decent set of values, pragmatism and a will to lead, there's also some quota for such "geopolitical and military shenanigans". Which is disappointing.
- throw93 3y agoHow is this voting system is fair if US can just go "naah..we don't like it" after everyone else has voted yes?
- starik36 3y agoBecause these countries are voting on an US internal policy - they don't have the power or jurisdiction.
- throw93 3y agomy question in particular is why aren't all votes considered equal in UN on any matter in general? It's so petty of US, the most powerful empire in the history of planet to put embargo on a tiny island like Cuba.
- ipaddr 3y agoBecause they are not equal. The UN is a forum where countries can communicate but it holds no power/money and relies on member states. The US pays a lot more than Equatorial Guinea abd welds more power. They US and other powerful nations sit on the security council and can veto any vote that come up there. The general assembly vote is non-binding so anyone can ignore it. The UN was setup to prevent world war III not police the injustices The UN doesn't actually have any power
- lolinder 3y agoYou're mixing up this vote with the security council. The US has a veto in the security council, not in the general assembly. This measure passed, but just like the measures on Russia's war in Ukraine it has no binding authority to mean anything.
- starik36 3y agoOther countries get to vote on an internal policy of US? From the article: "The blockade (embargo) qualifies as a crime of genocide", said Rodriguez (Cuban Foreign Minister) As far as I know every other country in the world trades with them. How failures of the state of Cuba are being blamed squarely on the USA?
- Jensson 3y ago> "The blockade (embargo) qualifies as a crime of genocide", said Rodriguez (Cuban Foreign Minister) USA allows selling food to Cuba, so I don't see how this embargo can be seen as genocide.
- aaron695 3y ago[dead]
- legitster 3y agoCan someone smarter than me on such matters explain the difference between an "embargo" in this case and "sanctions" in another? The Cuban diplomat calling it a "genocide" when the US is one of Cuba's top trading partners for food and supplies seems like a bit of an exaggeration.
- Jensson 3y agoTechnically it is sanctions today since USA allows some trade. It started out as an embargo blocking all trade, but it has eased up over the years.
- fxd123 3y agoTitle makes it seem like the U.N. can dictate this. It's a non-binding resolution.