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One sleepless night can rapidly reverse depression for several days in mice
- philipov 3y agoIsn't that just a hypomanic episode?
- ge96 3y agoWhat's your secret? I'm always manic
- not-my-account 3y agoQueue people blogging about their monthly “sleep fast” for optimized mood and focus.
- ge96 3y agoFor me it's forcing myself to only sleep 6 hours so I get through my day with loud music, caffeine and self hate.
- catchnear4321 3y agoplenty of people force themselves to stay up all night once in a blue moon for mental health reasons, all without blogging about it.
- nehal3m 3y agoReally, this is a thing? I’ve never heard about it. I used to stay up late sometimes when I was younger, but that was because the world went to sleep and I felt at peace doing my own thing. It wasn’t because I was trying to feel better the next day, in fact it tended to screw the next day up.
- Obscurity4340 3y agoThere's something to it. Also with dissociatives. Something about these substances or practices can help "reset" you like pulling the plug on an electrical device and forcing it to reboot with refreshed state
- catchnear4321 3y agopushing the system to a point where it flips over to a different operating mode. overheating your phone until it reboots. ctrl+alt+del. it usually feels a little precarious. maybe not for others. but there’s definitely an aspect of futzing with your mortality, with your primary systems. but if it works…
- Obscurity4340 3y agoI think there's some shared aspect of "too many background processes running—must reboot in safe mode!". Its also a bit impairing to the point you're not exactly "you" so you have a better chance of viewing things with different eyes which might be all it takes for someone to get to that point where they are aware and able to act on incremental changes in-line with that which appears in such a state
- catchnear4321 3y agothe second day, you slept poorly, mistakes don’t matter. and that’s just an added bonus on top of the biological changes. it is more about the third day. not surprising to not hear about it. it isn’t permanent, so catching a “practitioner” in the right moment to bring up the topic, while being in the right moment, is unlikely. plus, bodies are weird, and laws are scary. should everyone do this? probably not, and probably for differing reasons.
- ghostie_plz 3y agoJust sharing an anecdote - I noticed this effect in college for myself. Since then i do one or two all nighters a year specifically for this
- penjelly 3y agothis runs counter to what i understood, we had allnighters for productivity or bonding among friends. But i never wouldve guessed not sleeping for a night would make you feel better under some circumstances, always figured the health drawbacks would worsen the issue
- ngngngng 3y agoThat's exactly where my brain went. Now I need a Huberman Labs podcast telling me how I can incorporate this with my supplements and cold showers to achieve my maximum potential.
- p_j_w 3y agoDon't forget to microdose shrooms as well, please.
- OkayPhysicist 3y agoForget the microdose, sleep deprivation and macrodose shrooms go together like PB&J. Never met someone who could fall asleep under the effects of psychedelics.
- codethief 3y agoI know you're joking but I'm seriously wondering how the OP fits the research Huberman regularly cites (sleep is good for dopamine levels, willpower etc.)
- shikshake 3y agoThis must be why new parents always seem so bubbly and happy! But seriously, that’s very interesting and explains what I’ve experienced. I’ve been in a depression since quitting my phd a couple months ago and not having a direction in life, but whenever I have trouble sleeping I end up feeling better the next day. Maybe I’ll trying utilizing it to get my portfolio looking better.
- fsloth 3y agoI went several years more or less depressed and observed this phenomenon and utilized it. Night of Kerbal Space Program and next day the world is much better. For a while. Also, a lot fuzzier. And I couldn't code very well (just good enough to do my job so everyone was happy but I could feel slipping). Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. But, for sure in a pinch it does alleviate unbearable darkness. The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot - especially when entering middle age, when you (or I at least) can't shrug off sleep debt as easily. The interesting thing is that this apparently was not well known during my therapy. I discussed this effect with my therapist, and she was skeptical and non-plussed. No hard feelings there, I'm super pleased she was robustly evidence based. But very happy to read these results in any case to validate my personal discovery.
- romwell 3y agoSeconding everything you wrote. Emphasizing: - "The problem is it gives some, and takes a god damn lot" - "Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end" Still resort to this sometimes when I'm not on a schedule (i.e. between jobs).
- harimau777 3y ago> Therapy and SSRI:s worked much better in the end. How did you find that therapy helped you? I've started therapy a few months back and so far I can't find all that much value in it. They can't fix any of the stuff that is making me depressed, so it mostly feels like I'm mainly getting self help style advice.
- 3y ago
- smokel 3y ago... in mice.
- henryaj 3y agoIt is very well established in humans too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_therapy
- Murfalo 3y agoIndeed, the article title is a little misleading! Sleep depravation producing short-term improvements in human depression has been well known for some time. What the authors actually propose is an underlying mechanism to that improvement, in mice...
- jl6 3y ago> In a new study, researchers induced mild, acute sleep deprivation in mice and then examined their behaviors and brain activity. Not only did dopamine release increase during the acute sleep loss period, synaptic plasticity also was enhanced — literally rewiring the brain to maintain the bubbly mood for the next few days. What’s a mouse like when it’s in a bubbly mood?!
- smokel 3y agoPerhaps we misread, and "their" refers to the researchers, not to the mice!
- stevenwoo 3y agoFurther in the article they discuss monitoring activity of dopamine neurons and modifying individual neurons in the brains of these mice (which has parts analogous to human in many ways including emotion) and describing the behavior of sleep deprived mice which sort of implies what the normal behavior is.
- pvaldes 3y agoAre we talking about that small mammal that is a nocturnal species?
- the_cat_kittles 3y agoi have noticed i have a sleepless night every once and a while, maybe once a month, and i usually have been feeling bad emotionally leading up to it. and i do usually feel better the next day, despite expecting to feel bad from no sleep
- AlexandrB 3y agoI always thought it was related to anxiety. After staying up late it feels like I'm forced to focus on what's important because I don't have the mental capacity to let my mind wander and worry about stuff.
- bobsmooth 3y agoOnce I go past 24hr I get really loopy and giggly.
- jackcosgrove 3y agoNot sleeping for over 72 hours is the threshold for insanity.
- shtopointo 3y agoWhat about all the other studies claiming that poor sleep causes depression? Not sure what to trust these days. Gut tells me poor sleep won't make you ahem "your brain feel slap-happy, loopy and almost giddy" (very scientific).
- croes 3y agoFrom the article >Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it’s uniformly detrimental effects are widely documented,” Kozorovitskiy said. “But brief sleep loss — like the equivalent of a student pulling an all-nighter before an exam — is less understood.
- thibaut_barrere 3y agoI guess it also depends on what your past has been. After going through a "sleep-deprived burnout cycle", I found that any all-nighter will pull me back into the emotions I got at that time, even if I feel originally great physically & mentally. So, YMMV!
- mrbungie 3y agoI guess just one sleepless night is not the same as chronic poor sleep patterns. Also, it's interesting because sleepless nights are kind of a sign in bipolar disorder patients that an (hypo)-manic episode is about to occur or is actually occurring.
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- coldtea 3y ago>What about all the other studies claiming that poor sleep causes depression? What about them? This is about one sleepless night every several days/week for an already depressed person. Not about non-depressed people continuously sleeping poorly (which is where poor sleep would cause depression).
- Jerrrry 3y agoThe "morning hormonal" dump that gets offset by not sleeping could easily shift neuro-chemistry. For (sufficiently) depressed people, any perceived shift is likely going to be a improvement. Related, similar studies have postured that nights with occasional stirrups lead to a more rested day, un-intuitively. The variation in sleep requirements within groups may have more obvious evolutionary benefits; the security of camps overnight depend on those who stay up overnight to stand guard or occasionally tend to the fire.
- rottencupcakes 3y agoMy entire life, I've been a night owl. I'm prone to depression in the mornings. I prefer to avoid doing anthing in the AM. In the evenings, I can have a lot of get-up-and-go energy and can be positive about a lot of ideas, but when I wake up the next morning, my entire mood has shifted and I'm often quite negative. Staying up all night (or only getting a few hours of sleep) avoids that mental reset that causes my entire mood to shift. I wonder if this is related to the phenomenon studied.
- sys32768 3y agoOnce I hit my 40s, staying up too late causes a sleep hangover that would last a couple of days. Gone are my days of playing Ultima IV all night and feeling giddy in the morning.
- tomcam 3y agoOne of the cruelest aspects of whatever kind of insomnia I have is that while I normal get only 2-3 hours of sleep per night and feel disabled most of the day, every 3-5 years I get maybe 8-9 hours, and I have a pounding headache for the first 10 or so hours after I wake up.
- totetsu 3y agoNearing 40s and I can’t imagine how I used to live with gaming all nighters either. But I have found recently that not just a late night, but a full night without sleep, and pushing through the next morning did bring about a lot of mental clarity the following day.
- dralley 3y agoIt doesn't work for multiple sleepless/almost-sleepless nights in a row, ask me how I know.
- croes 3y ago>Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it’s uniformly detrimental effects are widely documented
- romwell 3y ago>It doesn't work for multiple sleepless/almost-sleepless nights in a row, ask me how I know. In other news, beneficial effects of a single cup of coffee don't seem to show up after you have a dozen of them.
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- JaDogg 3y agoI have some experience with this. But what can happen is sometime you overdo it and burn out physically, and depression hit at the same time. And you will be worse off. Happiest time of my life was when I was going to gym regularly (about 3 - 4 days per week)
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- taude 3y agoCan't wait to read about how bio-hackers are using this tool with their optimal morning routine ice-baths and lunchtime cocaine.
- romwell 3y ago>and lunchtime cocaine. In fact, forget the ice baths
- throwaway4837 3y agoWaking up in the mornings helps reset my mental state sometimes. I wonder if it's related. If I have an early morning, I usually find that I'm more productive and have more energy to work out or focus on tasks. There's nothing more depressing than a cycle of waking up at 2pm because you stayed up until 5am. Waking up so late makes me feel like I'm wasting my life.
- hshsbs84848 3y agoI’ve found that too Somehow I feel really energized if I wake up like 2-3 hours before my regular time But only if I haven’t done it in a while Something about disrupting the pattern seems to throw off the usual morning grogginess
- LesZedCB 3y agoit's my favorite part about early morning flights. i don't fly often, but when i do travel the following two weeks where i practically jump out of bed at 6-7am are amazing.
- cactusplant7374 3y agoI have a prescription for ketamine and when I take it at night it causes poor sleep and noticeable lethargy the next day. It's not a great thing. But I think "reversing depression" is codeword for manic and euphoria sensations. It's not targeting the core of what is depression.
- Hard_Space 3y agoHaving suffered from severe depression for over forty years, this reminds me of when I was 17, 18, etc. and suddenly discovered that if I stayed up for two days, the problem went away. So I knew this a very long time ago; but it always seemed to me that, besides smoking, this was just about one of the worst habits you could develop. By my mid-twenties, I had stopped.
- lofaszvanitt 3y agoStop coffee/tea/other stimulants maybe, change eating habits maybe, fasting for 1-3 days, change start of sleep, observe the effect. Change one thing at a time.
- Waterluvian 3y agoMy anxiety now is that using THC to sleep will cause issues long term. But without it I literally cannot get to sleep anymore. Edit: I regret pulling focus off parent comment and OP, but also deeply appreciate everyone’s comments.
- datameta 3y agoTry Type III cannabis (high cbd hemp). Nowadays it looks and smells like Type I cannabis (the high thc standard variety of weed). It has all the various combinations of cannabinoids, terpenes, and flavonoids that contribute to the entourage effect except for THC (<0.3%). In many if not most cases it can do what Type I medical cannabis can do. i.e. amongst non-psychoactive hemp flower there are relaxing indicas for insomnia, functional hybrids for chronic pain, sativas for a pick-me-up, etc.
- pstuart 3y agoI've not tried it yet, but CBN seems to be the winner in this category. It's legal in all states if pure. Black Friday is coming and I plan on getting some from a vendor I've used in the past. Ping me for that info if you wish. YMMV.
- 3y ago
- zdragnar 3y agoWeird, whenever I pull an all nighter my mood is usually noticeably depressed for the following two days. I also used to be a bit of an insomniac, and one sleepless night could easily throw off my circadian rhythm, creating all sorts of extra anxiety, which translates into demand avoidance, stress and furthering depression.
- baxtr 3y agoIs your normal state depressed though? I don’t think it works for “normal” people.
- Kbelicius 3y agoThe study was done on mice. Are there depressed mouse that are used in such experiments or is this just an opinion on why zdragnar might not feel these effects? This is a genuine question.
- zdragnar 3y agoI was diagnosed with dysthymic depression a little over 20 years ago. Therapy helped reset my expectations for myself, meds keep me regular. I had a stint of a few years off of medication to see how it went, thinking that I was sufficiently practiced at introspection to know if I needed to start again. I was very wrong, and put it off far too long. I've been back on medication for about 7 years and don't plan on stopping, ever.
- jvm___ 3y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/ This sub-reddit is dedicated to people who've noticed this effect for ADHD and probably depression as well. Drinking alcohol somehow causes the same 'reversal' of symptoms, either motivation or other mood problems. Lots of discussion as to what causes it - and questions/theories on how to reproduce without alcohol. Alcohol causing sleeplessness, or sleep that's not the usual quality might be an explanation.
- SkyPuncher 3y agoShame that I cannot view that without the app
- Tempest1981 3y agohttps://old.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/ https://old.reddit.com/r/hangovereffect/
- disiplus 3y agoI have ADHD, did never tried it with alcohol, but sleep deprivation works. I used it when working on important projects with deadlines. You kind of feel like in a parallel universe after a couple of a day if it's a interesting subject for you, ADHD gives you hyper focus, and sleep deprivation gives you this energy to push thru. It's like you don't even need the medication. If you combine it with ADHD medications it's like delirium. But anyway it comes all crashing after couple of days and you have to pick yourself up. I did it for import projects, but don't recommend it.
- OkayPhysicist 3y agoI definitely remember a couple times in school pulling absolutely heroic crunches to get a semester's worth of work done in a couple days. Worse one was Freshman year finals week, didn't sleep for just shy of 4 days, fueled by a mountain of caffeine, amphetamine, and sleepless delirium. During day 3 I started wearing an eye patch so that I could give each eye a temporary rest from the strain. Finished everything, flew home, and slept for 18 hours straight.
- lucia-goldsmith 3y agoThe article "One Sleepless Night Can Rapidly Reverse Depression for Several Days" is a fascinating and promising piece of research. The findings suggest that sleep loss could be a potential treatment for depression, which is a debilitating condition that affects millions of people worldwide. I am particularly interested in the implications of this research for many people. I believe that this research could lead to new and innovative treatments for depression, which would be a major breakthrough in the field of mental health. However, I am also aware of the potential risks associated with sleep loss. Sleep is essential for physical and mental health, and sleep deprivation can have a number of negative consequences, including cognitive impairment, increased risk of accidents, and worsening of existing mental health conditions. Therefore, I believe that it is important to carefully consider the potential benefits and risks of sleep loss before using it as a treatment for depression. More research is needed to determine whether sleep loss can be safely and effectively used in a clinical setting. I am optimistic that this research will lead to new and effective treatments for depression. I am also hopeful that this research will raise awareness of the importance of sleep for both physical and mental health.
- IntrepidPig 3y agoWas this written by an LLM?
- lucia-goldsmith 3y agoNo, it was not written by a language model (LLM). I know one of the authors, Mingzheng Wu, and have followed his work closely, including his papers on the rapid enhancement of glutamate-evoked dendritic spinogenesis in the medial prefrontal cortex through dopaminergic mechanisms, and the suppression of neuropathic pain through inhibition of YAP/TAZ activity in the spinal cord.
- warthog 3y agoIf you mean the comment, I think so. That's why it is probably flagged
- myth_drannon 3y agoYou get rid of depression but acquire dementia.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- maipen 3y agoThe article actualy says that if it's a routine thing then other problems will start to set in, obviously. They also mention that your probably better off going for a walk or going to the gym. This is just another possible tool that we could use strategicaly, but very rarely, to combat depression or feeling down.
- aatd86 3y agoI'm not depressed but just in case, time to go clubbin' like I'm nineteen again.
- tomcam 3y agoWeirdly I am in my 60s and have no trouble pulling all-nighters. I went clubbing like twice in my 20s and found it dull af, but coding all night is still not a problem for me. I have always been an atrocious sleeper.
- permo-w 3y agothe problem with this is that sleep loss has myriad other consequences; something I often discover when I take ADHD medication. it's all well and good being productive for a day, but when you wake up the next day at 2pm, things start to fall apart
- pazimzadeh 3y agoAnd can promote mania/psychosis, which seem related (higher energy levels)
- darkclouds 3y ago[dead]
- chupapimunyenyo 3y ago> Chronic sleep loss is well studied, and it’s uniformly detrimental effects are widely documented,” Kozorovitskiy said. I believe he didn't say "it's", he probably said "its".
- m463 3y agosort of interesting how your/you're, its/it's, shrimps/softwares and others sort of unconsciously makes what you're reading less authoritative in a 4th wall way.
- chupapimunyenyo 3y agoNot even unconsciously, I stop reading anything I've been reading once I meet one of these. It's disrespectful to the reader to not even check what's the correct spelling of a word you are using, and in my opinion indicates that the writer is not intelligent enough to recognize patterns in text, it really isn't that hard to see how a word is used in the wild. Kind of a hot take
- kzrdude 3y agoYou can't put all people on a scale like that, less intelligent vs more intelligent. Some people are great with letters and words and spot typos quickly, some just don't see it as easily. They can still be very intelligent in other aspects. People are different.
- chupapimunyenyo 3y agoYou know, you are right. I agree, but it still drives me nuts seeing this, maybe it's just ignorance? I expect a higher standard from a .edu website
- tomcam 3y agoIf this helps any, Siri NEVER seems to get this right, always preferring the contraction over the possessive. As a syntax/grammar fanaticist who is also old I rely on Siri for dictation and she has sunk embarrassingly low these last few years. I have to spend a long time correcting any message of reasonable length for this reason. It has made me much more sympathetic to errors like this, but I cannot begin to tell you how offended I too feel when so-called educators don't proofread. Don't get me started on emails from middle and high schools.
- bussetta 3y agoWhenever I feel down, I binge watch something usually late into nights and I feel better next day. I wonder if it's due to the lack of sleep.
- simonbarker87 3y agoSame for me. I don’t feel stress in the typical way, in fact for years I don’t think I got stressed. My wife eventually correlated me “checking out” for a few evenings in a row and smashing through a TV series or two as my stress relief valve. To me I just thought I wanted to watch TV, to her she noticed it always happened when events around me would be making other people “be stressed out”.
- Terr_ 3y agoPeriodically skipping-a-sleep (in order to shift the next bedtime) is also one approach to treat Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS), which is also correlated to depression.
- warthog 3y agoWell that's good news. Hate sleep
- k8svet 3y agoIt's just anecdata, and I am delighted to say that other lifestyle changes have eliminated most of my anxiety/depression, but this was definitely I hack I learned on my own and used at times.
- ltr_ 3y agonice to know, kind of suspected that. for me, a good non sleep night = bye cockroach mode and hello overenthusiastic maniac for a week. quite a ride. 100% recommended.
- darkerside 3y agoIf you've never tried a Ragnar race, you should consider it. It's a 36 hour-ish team relay race, with non runners driving in a van to meet runners at the next relay spot. You barely sleep, but the 1-2 hours you get are probably the deepest you'll ever feel. The next day you are exhausted and yet feel amazing at the same time.
- jackcosgrove 3y agoThe mice's symptoms when sleep deprived sound very similar to hypomanic symptoms. The same electrochemical circuits are likely involved, in one case a chemical imbalance inducing sleeplessness, and in another sleeplessness inducing a chemical imbalance.
- girafffe_i 3y agoI used to love Mondays, I would work hard during the week studying and working, then Friday I would stay up until sunrise with friends drinking or gaming. I kept this up while working in the corporate world and thought "this is what people mean by feeling refreshed" It wasn't until I met someone who bent me to be on her schedule, early to bed early to rise on the weekends, where I started feeling depressed by the end of the week, getting Sunday scaries, and having late onset insomnia. Complete anecdata, but I'm going to start practicing this again on Fridays to see what happens.
- squarepizza 3y agoSame. I'm completely anhedonic by Friday when I box myself into a schedule like this, which makes enjoying the weekend feel like a chore.
- robust-cactus 3y agoSo sleep well and avoid dementia but stop sleeping to avoid depression
- hihungryimdad 3y agoI have experience with this and commented on a similar thread in 2018. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16557500#16558442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16557500#16558442 Update if anyone cares: I feel like I'm damn near 100%.
- tomcam 3y agoNone of that worked for me but the important thing is... WONDERFUL that you're still on track! Thanks for sharing and congrats.
- ineedasername 3y agoNot for me. I think this will vary by person, especially as causes of depression vary and the whole phenomena is not fully understood. But for me, depression can be bouts of fatigue and lethargy, but also are sometimes accompanied by crippling thoughts off.. well, things that keep me awake. And losing an entire nights sleep like that was not at all helpful. I felt just as bad or worse, only with some additional things related to sleep loss mixed in. That said, I also know (not from experience) that even in "normal" people, skipping too much sleep can produce minor bouts of mania (where mania can vary from highly unpleasant to highly energetic/productive/euphoric) so it does make sense to me that some depressed patients response positively to it.
- tomcam 3y agoNot for me either. But my insomnia is incredibly bad.
- Daunk 3y agoHuh, so maybe that's why I felt like my depression was better in my younger years, cause I slept less?
- arkades 3y agoWe have known about sleep deprivation causing a remission in suicidal ideation for a while - we have inferred a depression benefit as well, but it’s nice to have it quantified. However, we also know resumption of sleep pretty quickly ends the effect. It’s not a sustainable intervention, so much as it an interesting finding for hypothesis generation. We also see the reverse effect in mania; on balance, regular healthy sleep wins the day.
- jrflowers 3y agoFor those that enjoy sleep, smoke salvia instead! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721268/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2721268/
- pedalpete 3y agoThe impact of sleep restriction on depression has been known for decades (though most of the research I'm seeing is from late 2010s on [1], this link says "from the beginning of the last century [2]) However, sleep deprivation as a treatment needs to be balanced with the health impact of sleep deprivation itself. A single night of lost sleep can have significantly detrimental impact on long-term health. Insulin response tanks, cortisol levels increase, HRV decreases, and this becomes a viscious cycle. In addition to increased beta-amyloid deposits associated with Alzheimers [3]. [1] https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/september/sleep-deprivation-is-an-effective-antidepressant-for-nearly-half-of-depressed-patients https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/septemb... [2] https://www.minervamedica.it/en/journals/minerva-psychiatry/article.php?cod=R17Y2001N01A0059 https://www.minervamedica.it/en/journals/minerva-psychiatry/... [3] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/sleep-deprivation-increases-alzheimers-protein https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/sleep-d...
- jamestimmins 3y agoIronically, I've had several bouts of depression kicked off by pulling an all-nighter.
- codethief 3y agoExactly, sleep deprivation can also cause a loss in willpower and thus move oneself closer to the depression/apathy end of the spectrum. Nothing new, really, but as it so happens I listened to Andrew Huberman's podcast on "willpower & tenacity" last night where he spends a good amount of time addressing this topic.
- Aurornis 3y agoYes, and we've also known for a long time that the effects are temporary and unsustainable. It also doesn't work for everyone and can induce or worsen depression in others. It is interesting, though. There have been some attempts to use sleep deprivation to kick off antidepressant treatment. There have also been attempts to extend the effect by using a single night of sleep deprivation followed by a slightly altered sleep schedule. Many people can even benefit from simpler alterations of going to bed earlier and getting up earlier. A lot of people discover that if they adjust their sleep schedule to go to bed earlier and get early (enough to be awake by sunrise) they feel substantially better. Convincing people to actually do this and maintain it is often difficult. Certain medications with depression-altering properties might act through alterations of circadian rhythm. Lithium inhibits GSK-3, which has significant effects on circadian rhythm. Agomelatine, a newer antidepressant, has significant interactions with the Melatonin receptor. It should go without saying that medications like these are infinitely more sustainable than sleep deprivation.
- Zetobal 3y agoI am bipolar and when I am in an depressive episode I use the same technique the lift the burden a bit
- havblue 3y agoNow that I'm thinking about this, you can pull in an all-nighter on Thursday then wfh on Friday and just catch up on sleep over the weekend. People at work won't mind and the wife and kids will be okay as long as you're caught up for Saturday. This was timely advice.
- arthurofbabylon 3y agoIn my life, I've observed occasional sleepless nights (one night per 1-3 month period) to coincide with positive moods, abundant activity, and a general sense of fulfillment. And when my mood and motivation drops, I reflect back and recall that it's been a while since I've enjoyed a sleep-free night. I've always conceived of this as a consequence of being highly dynamic – my system is being stretched/pushed/twisted/strained by skipping sleep [1] – and a correlation to generally being enthusiastic about what's going on (I stayed up all night in the first place because I was obsessed with a fun problem). Of course, it is difficult to parse cause/effect/correlation, so I'm aware of the limits of these observations [2]. However, from the beginning I've felt confident that these sleepless nights were part of a broader pattern of good health. [1] – As a general rule, I find "stress" to be healthy if it is acute (but survivable!) and unhealthy if it is chronic. This case (sleep) fits the rule... infrequent sleepless nights have a net positive effect, and prolonged sleep deprivation (even mild) is absolutely terrible for pretty much all aspects of health. [2] – In observing my sense of happiness, I consider "seasons," or 3-6 months periods, so the previous analysis is actually quite feasible. Do I wake up motivated? Do I feel pleasure lying down to sleep? Am I being kind to the people in my life? Do I enjoy interacting with acquaintances? Do I feel capable? To me these questions offer clarity on some rough level of happiness, and makes possible an imperfect analysis of the effects of something like a sleepless night or other lifestyle change. It's not perfect – but it doesn't need to be perfect, as it is already a more effective analysis than the alternative (no analysis at all).
- ojosilva 3y ago> "You can imagine certain situations where there is a predator or some sort of danger where you need a combination of relatively high function with an ability to delay sleep." I think these predator vs. human situations are sometimes exaggerated to prove a point. Not that it can't be, it's just that these articles go straight into it with no pondering on sight. Similar analogies and misconceptions apply to fasting and paleo diets, sparking controversy on how prehistory behavior, human evolution and healthy habits in the 21st century all link up (or don't). Humans have been naturally selecting on so many things - it's just as easy to say the brain responds with dopamine giddiness to protect itself from psychosis after a sleepless night caused by... eating bad food, hunger, insect bites, thirst, etc. No need to bring saber-tooth cats into the equation just for the clickbait.
- darigo 3y agoWith all these studies, we're going to be very well prepared to address any future mental health epidemics among mice
- I_Am_Nous 3y agoMy body does insanely badly with poor sleep. The worst feedback loop is when nighttime eczema itchiness kills my sleep quality which increases my stress which increases my eczema symptoms... But I've also been chronically depressed since childhood.
- ruiisnwn 3y ago[dead]
- mickdarling 3y agoI think I’ve been self “medicating” this way for at least 30 years.
- mriet 3y agoThis duplicates research that is at least 20 years old. Also, depressed people (and people with similar mental conditions) resist sleep also partially because being tired means that you feel less, and thus are relieved from the pain you feel more acutely when more awake.
- jbullock35 3y ago> researchers induced mild, acute sleep deprivation in mice How can sleep deprivation be both mild and acute?
- cpeterso 3y agoIn medicine, describing a disease as “acute” denotes that it is of recent onset; it occasionally denotes a short duration, as opposed to “chronic”.
- FredPret 3y agoToo tired to be sad!
- jrapdx3 3y agoRelationship of sleep and depression is a very interesting topic that despite decades of observation and research is still poorly understood. As other comments point out, the potential beneficial effect of sleep deprivation (SD) has been noted for a long time. It's also correct that effects tend to be transient and quite varied among study subjects. A recent comprehensive meta-analysis [0] showed that overall, extant studies of sleep deprivation in depression are too inconsistent to allow drawing firm conclusions regarding its merit. To quote the authors, "...it is uncertain whether SD affects quality of sleep, health‐related quality of life, everyday functioning or length of hospital stay. Generally, the method is well‐tolerated, although the risk of switch to mania exists. Albeit the low grade of evidence, the treatment method of SD should be considered an important part of the future research in rapid relief of depression". For clinicians, the careful scientific approach emphasizes need to accumulate clear evidence of efficacy and safety before prescribing SD to those suffering major depression. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7839702 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7839702
- whall6 3y agoI’ve worked only two places my whole life: a tech company and an investment bank. Each had the work life balance you’d expect. When I started at the investment bank my depression stopped entirely. I always wonder if depression is something you experience if your hierarchy of needs is completely met. It’s like a switch flipped and I went from searching for meaning to animalistic survival mode. Tangentially related, my religion has a strict health code and teaches to refrain from oversleeping. Not the inverse.
- lhuser123 3y agoHas anyone read the book “Brain Energy”. I think it can be life changing for some people with mental illness. Even if you just have minor depression from time to time.
- Khelavaster 3y agoAnger and hostility are opposites of depression. Doesn't mean it's good to induce those feelings..
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- specproc 3y agoI saw this yesterday, and IIRC correctly "in mice" wasn't at the end. Well done to whoever updated that. Should be mandatory!
- piuantiderp 3y agoSerotonin is overrated, SSRI's and weed create unmotivated, pliable people. It is the hormone of bears going into hibernation. That's partly why it'll make you a sexless individual...
- InSteady 3y agoOne theory about the beneficial impacts of psychedelic is that they have such power affinity for serotonin receptors that the body downregulates their expression as a result. However, this effect did not bear causative fruit in a swim-stress coping experiment with mice [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9736085/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9736085/
- ada1981 3y agoI think this in part drives the depression / mania cycle, At least it did for me. Staying up coding or working on a project would life my depression, but then I’d go off in the other direction and end up in psychosis as I chased the sleep deprivation high. Also why concerts, festivals, even cool conferences were so attractive. That said, it seems possible to leverage this as a tool — certainly more useful than SSRIs, etc. which just punt the issues and tend to make things worse. As for me, I ultimately healed so called manic psychosis, bipolar, schizoaffective, Anxiety through Transpersonal approaches, psychedelics, gratitude, meditation, nature and learning to regulate my nervous system. Without medications despite what the doctors said was possible.
- InfiniteRand 3y agoI found in college that lack of sleep significantly reduced my anxious and depressive thoughts, but it also reduced my ability to think deeply about things, I think it was sort of a less thinking has both negative and positive side effects type of thing
- trizuz 3y ago[dead]
- deprecative 3y agoAs someone with (not diagnosed) depression and (diagnosed) insomnia I have never thought about it but I think this tracks with my experience sort of. I regularly go 24 hours or more without sleep and tend to feel only tiredness - not my other symptoms of depression.