20 ms·

Copying Angry Birds with nothing but AI

651 points by hackerbeat 3y ago

NKosmatos 3y ago
We’re living in interesting times, especially from AI, ML and coding point of view. The possibilities seem endless and the reach of such tools is going to lead to an “explosion” of creativity.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  I would suggest that the past is likely a good guide in this case. Personal Computers, easier languages, HTML, World Wide Web did not really make non-creative people into creative people. I can really speak for myself. I can copy some things, but I rarely can glue and remix them together in a way that make them desirable. Personally, this is the same way I see the AI. There is potential here sure, but I do not think 2 million angry bird clones is an actual threat to a creative. Now, it will hurt low effort crap, but there is so much low effort crap out there already..
  - hluska 3y ago
    I agree with you with one small reservation. This tech is an excellent way to get quick prototypes out. Most people will never go beyond that so we will see a lot more crap. But for the people that do, being able to prototype something quickly could result in some noticeably new ideas.
- conductr 3y ago
  It is interesting to watch. Especially as an arch in "my life with technology", this time around I'm a bystander watching what people can do with it and it is impressive. My tinkering as not been as fruitful. I feel like my grandparents that never caught on to Google-fu but, just like my grandparents, I'm ok with it.
franze 3y ago
After seeing my son rage-tapping a loading spinner I / GPT coded this game on a lazy Sunday afternoon. https://spinner.franzai.com/ https://spinner.franzai.com/ Think it could be an interesting UX pattern. Having interactive loading (spinner) games that at least give is feedback that our actions (even in between things) have impact.
- mhitza 3y ago
  It is an interesting approach to loading screens, and personally I would have expected way more games to use such a feature. Not AAAs, of course, but indie games. I clearly recalled having read the news about the patent of this having expired a while ago, and from a quick search, a while ago, has been 8 years ago https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-patent-finally-expires https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-pa...
  - dave84 3y ago
    I remember playing Galaga while Tekken loaded on the PS1.
    - thatoneguy 3y ago
      Willy Beamish for the Sega CD had something similar, too. It was a godsend because that game's scenes took forever to load...I've only been able to revisit it thanks to flash carts that mostly eliminate the loading speed.
- feirlane 3y ago
  For what is worth, my partner and I just had a good laugh playing this with four hands and pushing it over 25. Really fun fidget, thanks for sharing!
- deleted 3y ago
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- GalaxyNova 3y ago
  I got it to level 7
danielvaughn 3y ago
This is more interesting than the deluge of posts that say "I created an iOS app in 30 minutes using ChatGPT!" Which doesn't mean much because it could've done nothing more than create a simple hello world. This one at least shows the finished product, which is indeed pretty impressive. Some details I'd need to know are (a) how long did it take, (b) how many prompts, (c) how many course-corrections were required, and (d) how competent this individual was with the technologies in question. I've personally found ChatGPT extremely empowering in lots of scenarios, but code generation was not among them.
- cryptoz 3y ago
  I’ve been playing with ChatGPT code generation to make entire sites with flask, python, html+js+css, backed with SQLite db and it’s amazing. I’ve had it write like 5k lines that are all live in prod and working (not much traffic lol but still). A huge huge factor is knowing the limitations and getting better at prompting. And identifying likely hallucinations and asking for risks etc. I’ve found it best with tech I don’t know well (I’m an android dev using it to make websites, something I haven’t done myself in like 15 years). Most of the coolest stuff for me is help with sysadmin and running the server. The ability to debug gunicorn errors is great. I do have to modify the code it outputs as the project grows and it loses context, but honestly the context limits are the biggest hurdle for bigger projects and those will be lifted soon. Edit: Most recent site I made with like 95% code from ChatGPT is https://cosmictrip.space/ https://cosmictrip.space/ which generates prompts with GPT-4 that are then used to generate space images with DALL-E. It's a simple site but there is a secret adventure game I'm working on (GPT+Dall-E) that is open-ended image+text AI-driven game. I'm hoping to launch before Nov 6 with DALL-E 3 API (hopefully...!). The adventure game is also written like 95%+ by ChatGPT. I've had such great success with it coding that I'm using the GPT-4 API with an agent I'm making (everyone is huh). I have function calling hooked up to generate structured subtasks that the agent can then write the code for, and support for files to include context, chat with your code, etc. It's not ready to show but the GPT-4 code generation abilities are really incredible - but you have to be experienced at prompting. Your first prompts aren't likely to be great, which is why I'm hoping my agent can have success. The idea of the agent I'm writing is a Jira/kanban style board where you have AI coders assigned to tasks that you can approve and modify etc. The tickets should automatically move across the columns as the AI checks the work etc.
bigfishrunning 3y ago
So AI made a cheap copy of something people made...Can it do anything else?
- solardev 3y ago
  It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement
  - WoodenChair 3y ago
    > It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement It's not really "its" achievement. There are many open source repositories of Flappy Bird that it was trained on and there are many brilliant engineers at Google and OpenAI who have worked on LLM technology. It is their achievement if anything. It is a product. A product of others' achievement. You don't say Excel had an achievement when it calculates a good formula for you? Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did.
    - famouswaffles 3y ago
      >Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did. Sure Why not? The engineers at google and open ai or wherever else trained the models but they didn't teach it how to do anything it does because they don't know how to teach it to do anything it does. So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. Many people gave the likes of alpha go achievement on super human Go play.
      - throw555chip 3y ago
        > So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. It is? OK, tell them to completely clear the model of any angry bird original and clone code, data and assets that it scarfed from the Internet. It can retain scarfed definitions of angry and bird as well as scarfed information on making a 2D video game. Then tell the model to create the game and see what if anything it comes up with.
m3kw9 3y ago
Prob needed to a ton of glue code to have it at quality
- deleted 3y ago
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mhitza 3y ago
How do I read the Twitter thread if I don't have an account?
- papercrane 3y ago
  You should be able to replace twitter.com with nitter.net https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
- vuln 3y ago
  The same way you deal with pay walled news articles. Sign up, check archives/cache, or move on.
- smhg 3y ago
  I don't have one either but I could read it on Mastodon. If it helps someone: https://fosstodon.org/@javilopen@bird.makeup/111332485943091285 https://fosstodon.org/@javilopen@bird.makeup/111332485943091...
efitz 3y ago
This was amazing work. I consistently underestimate what generative AI can do. Also: I think you just scared the daylights out of a lot of mobile game developers and inspired many more.
- Dudester230602 3y ago
  Mobile games are a mix of half-arsed Steam game ports, polished ad-budget-driven exploitation machines and trash. I think the trash producers will be excited, not scared. The other two kinds won't care.
xwdv 3y ago
Everyone will think this impressive, but they’re not game developers. You could literally make all this in probably 24 hours and not spend any time mucking around with prompts. Like what are we even seeing here? Basically a tech demo of a physics engine, a little UI interaction for throwing a collidable entity into other entities, and some code for setting up a level? Show me the maintenance, adding new features, bug fixing, cross platform compatibility, shaders, networking code, sound, etc.
- Veuxdo 3y ago
  And, most importantly, marketing.
- dan-g 3y ago
  You could argue then that this reduces the barrier to entry for people to become game developers. Isn’t everything you just listed (physics engine, UI, collide entities) how you make a simple game? It doesn’t matter that it doesn’t have networking code, shaders, or sound. Those things can be added later. I don’t think it’s productive to gatekeep who is and isn’t a game developer. They developed a game, that makes them a game developer—it doesn’t matter how they got there.
  - raytopia 3y ago
    I'm not sure how this reduces the barrier to game developement. There are already lots of free assets and game engines designed for making arcade games that are a lot easier then say Unity or Unreal. Like https://arcade.makecode.com/ https://arcade.makecode.com/ or https://microstudio.dev/ https://microstudio.dev/ or https://scratch.mit.edu/ https://scratch.mit.edu/. And if you don't want to make arcade games there are other tools like RPG Maker, RenPy, GDevelop, and many more each of which are much easier to use then this AI pipeline (not to say it isn't impressive you can do this with AI though) and will lead to better outcomes of actually understanding game development.
    - gowld 3y ago
      All of those things require me to write code, in an annoying, slow, hard to debug click-drag format. I'd rather the AI write the code for me based on my natural language description of what I want.
LastTrain 3y ago
This is interesting, but, the "nothing but AI" part is clearly not true and so I'm not exactly sure what was done here.
- Kiro 3y ago
  What do you mean?
- carnitine 3y ago
  You’re saying that based on what? All the code and assets are AI.
  - LastTrain 3y ago
    The music?
    - omarfarooq 3y ago
      There's AI for that too, now.
      - LastTrain 3y ago
        But it wasn't used to generate the music in this "game" that isn't a game. This was my point - that it is unclear exactly what AI did and did not do in this case. Like, I'm 100% sure my mom could not have done this, so, not "all" AI like the title says.
        ziddoap 3y ago
        >"game" that isn't a game. Why is it not a game? I even played it a bit -- was I hallucinating?
        simonw 3y ago
        The Angry Pumpkins game doesn't have sound effects or music - you can play it here: https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html The Twitter thread shows exactly what the AI made. It was used for the JavaScript code and the image assets. If you don't have a Twitter account you can see the full content on Nitter https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 or in my Gist copy: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c...
jpallen 3y ago
This is very cool! It's not as impressive, but here is a video of me writing Game of Life only by speaking out loud to VS Code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSplhZ0DlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSplhZ0DlY I did that by building an open source VS Code extension to interact with GPT3.5/4 directly from your editor: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Biggles.biggles https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Biggles..... It cuts out copy/pasting between ChatGPT and your editor, or writing any boiler plate code since you can just ask it to insert the code you want, or change the code you have highlighted. You can also talk to it directly using the Whisper API!
invalidusernam3 3y ago
I did a similar exercise recently when I needed to make a fairly basic rest API and CRUD frontend using 2 frameworks I wasn't particularly familiar with. I used GPT4 to generate ALL the code for it. I'll write a blog post about it soon, but a quick overview was: I suspect it was slower than just writing the code/referencing the docs, and would be much slower than someone could do if they were experienced with the two frameworks. I had to be very specific and write a few long and detailed prompts for the more complex parts of a the application. It took around 5 hours to make the application, with a lot of that time spent sitting waiting for the (sometimes painfully slow) ChatGPT output. In a framework I'm more familiar with I think I could have easily got it done in under 2 hours It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any questions. It was also very useful for generating perfectly formatted boilerplate code (some frameworks have CRUD generation built in, but this one did not). It was a fun experiment, and I found it useful as a learning/guiding/generation tool, but I won't be using it for general day to day development any more than I currently do. For most instances it's quicker to just learn the framework well and write the code yourself.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  > It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any questions. I've found it to be shockingly good at this. I end up asking a lot of questions like, "what is the best directory structure for a project on {foo} platform?" or "What is the idiomatic way to do {x} in {language y}?" It has the advantage of having seen lots of projects in every language, and for some questions that automatically leads to a good answer.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    I use Sourcegraph a lot for this when GPT can't get a satisfying answer.
  - dartos 3y ago
    I always get the classic “It really depends on your use case and neither pattern is exactly better than the other” when asking gpt about programming patterns
burkaman 3y ago
Here's the code: https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/sketch.js https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/sketch.js
monkpit 3y ago
I realize this comment isn’t directly related to the article, but it got me thinking… I wonder what effect AI will have on the next generation of gaming consoles. Will they get beefier GPU capabilities to leverage local models? Will they use cloud capacity to host models and games require always-online capability to play as intended? Some mixture of both? Also, I hope that AI won’t turn into the next way to just ruin everything that was already good. A bunch of rehashed unoriginal ideas, like “it’s Pac-Man, but with AI!” Please, no.
- deleted 3y ago
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kevinsync 3y ago
Despite the expected contrarianism in the comments, and I promise I'm being positive here, I'm pretty sure GPT-4 did really well on this task because a quick Google search shows a bunch of existing projects spanning blogs, GitHub and YouTube that it almost certainly trained on: https://www.google.com/search?q=matter.js+angry+birds+clone https://www.google.com/search?q=matter.js+angry+birds+clone This is not a Bad Thing (tm) -- it's actually really sick because you can quickly get out of the weeds and get productive, especially if your skillset is not as deep as you'd have needed to accomplish even half of this a decade ago. Nobody ever said paint by numbers was capital-P "Painting", but sometimes it's a blast to do one. I remember being 12 and making custom WADs for Doom / Hexen; my 6th grade son builds endlessly-creative and complicated modded Minecraft worlds with detailed machinery and electrical circuits and all this crazy seemingly-adherent-to-real-world-physics shit. Angry Pumpkins is arguably an order of magnitude better than simply re-skinning a Cyberdemon, because lowering the "time-to-screen" with any project (and in this case, providing a blueprint) is fun, creative, and most importantly ENCOURAGING for the next generation. Anyways, I like it!
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  That’s a really interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.
- epiccoleman 3y ago
  Thanks for writing this. This really mirrors my own perspective. Yeah, these tools aren't exactly "learning to fish," but if this gets someone excited about "fishing', then that's a good thing. A lot of my early coding experiences were in a similar vein to what you described, altering gamemaker projects and things like that. And even now I have a lot of fun playing with this AI stuff. It can help me go from 0 to 20% on something I previously knew nothing about, and sometimes that initial boost is all I need to get over the friction and actually do something cool. Or sometimes I realize that it's not worth the amount of effort it would take to go to the next 80%. That's OK too. I totally understand the cynicism around this stuff, but for me it's like... 99% exciting and cool.
- croes 3y ago
  Ok, but many of these AI tools are promoted as Programming bots with a capital-P
neilv 3y ago
This statistical plagiarism laundering is pretty neat. IMHO, stopping the laundering gold rush is a more urgent priority for law, than creating market moats for the current big pickaxe vendors and pretending it's about preventing HAL.
matsemann 3y ago
I honestly don't think the coding is that impressive. What sells it is the assets. It used to be that all quick demos / gamejam like games like these (which it honestly is) looked like crap. Now it suddenly can look a bit polished. Not just boxes and lines, but actually somewhat nice graphics (which is probably too close to what it mimics and would end with a angry letter from a bird attorney if was used in an actual game, though).
- djmips 3y ago
  new game idea. Angry letters!
rideontime 3y ago
Are there any plagiarism detection tools for software? Because I'm very curious how closely this code matches one of the many JS Angry Bird clone tutorials out there.
- notfed 3y ago
  There is always GitHub search.
- tomduncalf 3y ago
  Someone showed me a similar game type thing they had made with GPT-4 and I could find the code that it had used just by searching Github. It had taken an open source project and made some modifications and spliced a few extra bits together - which is still impressive but the bulk of it was already out there. This matched my limited experience too, unsurprisingly it does a lot better for problems where there is already code and discussion out there. I wasn't able to find exact code for the posted game though so I think something cleverer may have occurred!
ThalesX 3y ago
This inspired me to try and get a sprite sheet with the top down animations for a paladin for a potential RPG game. See me fail here: https://imgur.com/a/2uJyUT3 https://imgur.com/a/2uJyUT3 Actual order was top down variants first, and then the last one was the side view as I was curious what it'd show.
- elliottcarlson 3y ago
  I've used midjourney to create ttrpg tokens in the past, and the best way I was able to do so was to say "aerial view" -- top down was very flakey in if it would work. I wonder if Dall-E 3 needs the same guidance.
deleted 3y ago
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la64710 3y ago
The real challenge is generating a large code base (think more than a JavaScript loaded page) - the front end backend and everything in between and then automating the testing and deployment …
simonw 3y ago
Twitter is a bad place to share original content these days, because anyone without a Twitter account not only won't be able to see anything more than the first tweet but (crucially) won't even see a visual indicator that there IS more content to see. Here's a screenshot to illustrate: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df?permalink_comment_id=4745199#gistcomment-4745199 https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c... For people without a Twitter account, I've pasted the content of the thread into a Gist here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c... The most important missing link is the live demo, https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html
- lazycouchpotato 3y ago
  There's Nitter.net for now, thankfully. Nitter link: https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
  - 1f60c 3y ago
    There’s a list of Nitter instances here, if the flagship instance isn’t working (this happens from time to time): https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances
    - lazycouchpotato 3y ago
      Oh I wasn't aware there were other instances. Thanks!
- worldsayshi 3y ago
  And also, who knows where Twitter will be in a year. This could all disappear in a black whole judging by the somewhat chaotic developments.
- mackwell 3y ago
  I have an account and half the time when I follow a link from HN to Twitter / X it just throws an error that something went wrong / can't load the tweet. And video content works even less often than that. The site seems like it barely works at this point and is rapidly becoming a ghost town. What a waste.
demondemidi 3y ago
Does it generate the same result for everyone who enters the prompts? (Not an AI guy here)
- simonw 3y ago
  No, it won't. There's a big random element to this, especially when you are prompting GPT-4 directly through the ChatGPT interface. Image generation models can sometimes produce the exact same image if you fix the seed they are using - there are different procedures for doing that for different image models. LLMs like GPT-4 can have their "temperature" dialled down, but even at 0 they aren't guaranteed to return exactly the same response to a given prompt. I believe this is because they run floating point operations in parallel across multiple GPUs and floating point arithmetic isn't actually commutative - you can get back a slightly different result if the multiplications run in a different order.
product-render 3y ago
Always instructional how eager a lot of people are to not pay artists. I'm guessing the mood will be less celebratory when we can stop paying most programmers.
- toiletfuneral 3y ago
  [dead]
- alright2565 3y ago
  This article is about replacing programmers with AI. I, personally, will celebrate, since it'll allow me to explore opportunities I would not have time for on my own. And I'm not worried for my career, since 99% of people will still be unable to think and write coherently enough to use the AI tools. And I think the reality here is not so much being unwilling to pay artists as the budget being extremely low. If I've got an art budget of $10 for a quick experiment like this, I'm not going to hire an artist, I'm just going to use the circle tool in GIMP.
  - tw061023 3y ago
    This article is about precisely nothing, as almost all AI articles are. By the way, I have a nice bridge for sale.
- somsak2 3y ago
  It's interesting how most don't consider programmers artists, even though coding requires quite a bit of creativity.
- vunderba 3y ago
  Did you read the actual post? They use generative AI to replace both programmers AND artists. And if anything programmers have been at risk of replacement FAR longer than traditional artists. Low code solutions in the form of Squarespace for web programming, AirTable for CRUD, Unity for making games, the list goes ON AND ON.
dools 3y ago
I find it interesting that over the past decade so much investment has gone into making no code tools, and now ChatGPT is so good at writing code that it’s probably faster, more flexible and approaching the same level of usability for technically minded but non coding type folks. I recently had to create a demo app to consume and publish a REST service using Mendix and it took a couple of days to figure out all the details, but doing the same thing in any language (bash for example) using ChatGPT would have taken minutes. Deployment and version control can be solved without much technical prowess using PaaS/IaaS, especially if you’re comparing your costs with enterprise no code platforms. It may be my personal bias talking (I’ve always disliked no code platforms because they feel more cumbersome when you have to do anything serious, I dislike ActiveRecord ORMs for similar reasons) but it kind of seems like No Code will be obsolete pretty soon. Who wants to drag and drop when you can just ask, copy and paste?
- elicksaur 3y ago
  Would it have taken minutes? Can you try and give us real, rather than speculative, feedback? Shouldn’t take much time!
  - dools 3y ago
    Sure here you go: https://chat.openai.com/share/f98d04b9-6d93-46b7-9fa9-7c9ec14259c5 https://chat.openai.com/share/f98d04b9-6d93-46b7-9fa9-7c9ec1...
- silisili 3y ago
  I think this solution is about the perfect thing I can come up with, conceptually. Nocode is easy but rigid. Coding is flexible but tedious and error prone. Being able to talk out what you want to quickly get the code, as long as it's clean, gives you the flexibility to then tune as needed. And in some cases, like apparently this one, that wasn't even necessary. Exciting times ahead...
  - dools 3y ago
    I guess the thing that's still lacking from an AI code solution is security guard rails. My demo below for example is open to injection attacks but I think that could be solved with fine tuning or custom instructions. You can't just have amateurs copying and pasting stuff into production environments, but even the task of writing tests can be given to an AI. Like you get one AI to write some code, then you get another AI to write code to test it. The chances of perfectl complementary errors are pretty low, but even if that happens you then get an AI to write a frontend script to run automated integration tests, and then have some human quality control at the end. Really, I think a code-based AI pipeline has much more long term potential than no code does. The interfaces are just so laborious.
low_tech_punk 3y ago
The super power of GPT is allowing a generalist to become specialists in diverse disciplines just-in-time.
- gverrilla 3y ago
  I wouldn't say specialist, because GPT often ignores full context of the information. Sometimes, if a system is composed of A B C D E, and you only mention the first 4, it will answer with no problem as if E was irrelevant. As soon as you introduce E, then, it will quickly say sorry and reconsider. I'm a true hardcore generalist, and gpt can help a lot, but I wouldn't say I can become a specialist with it because it doesn't investigate at all - if you don't mention it, a lot of times it's as if it doesn't even exist.
- danielbln 3y ago
  As a technical generalist I certainly find myself pretty empowered by these LLMs. It's never been easier to dive into a new problem, figure out the boundaries and solution paths and get cracking.
dgs_sgd 3y ago
This is exciting, like we’re about to enter a new golden age for indie apps and games.
tetrisgm 3y ago
Disclaimer: I was a PM on Angry Birds. This is such a great demo. The original used Box2D,LUA scripting, and of course you had to make enemies and levels. There's obviously no expectation that you'd make a hit game from the tech in its current state. You're bound to be limited by the tech, rather than your own skills. But for rapid ideas, for prototypes, for game jams, this is a game changer. I can also see it as a great alternative to Scratch for kids to play around with ideas. Hope to see more platforms try to turn this into an offering!
- vvoyer 3y ago
  Nice, what's the craziest story about your time here
  - deleted 3y ago
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  - tetrisgm 3y ago
    Would derail the thread pretty hard and I'm not sure even which one to pick. But my favorite memory was walking the streets of Seoul and getting in a little street market. There was this kid who was the son of the shop owner, playing on a cheap Android device. Super into the last update we shipped. You could tell he was gonna sit there on the floor in the corner and this would be his day. I was suddenly so self conscious about how we made levels and updates. Until then it was just the next update at the office, we had to make it good and polished and respectful of the player. But now it was this kid's world, much like Super Mario Bros had been to me. It was important. It was a really humbling moment.
    - savolai 3y ago
      It would be wonderful if such stories were more prevalent and lauded in the overall industry: at the ens of the day, it's not about specific tech but about how we end up affecting concrete lives. Human-computer interaction as a research field is all about this; seeing the others' perspective. Sadly it's seems to be largely seen as niche activity by the wider community.
tayo42 3y ago
idk why it wasnt obvious to me before, i never bothered trying to make games because i wasnt good at digital art and didn't really have the interest to try to be. i should now... lol
- tmountain 3y ago
  We are still lacking a reliable method to generate animated sprites. I’m very excited about the prospect of that day arriving sometime soon.
two_in_one 3y ago
Cool! The coolest here is not the game, it's the fact that AI is being used for software development. Actually ChatGPT is used for more serious and practical applications. But I started with games too. Having fun makes it easier to start. You can think of AI (today) as very knowledgeable and not very smart assistant. Complex project requires a lot of prompts. Human's task is to put it all together, test, ask for new parts and corrections. And this is just a beginning...
atleastoptimal 3y ago
There have got to be some freelancers/remote workers who have 100x'ed their productivity using GPT-4 and AI tools correctly. I can't imagine all these cool hacks exist in a vacuum. Imagine what we'll have in 2 years. The genie is out of the bottle.
- TheRoque 3y ago
  100x? Well they probably weren't very productive in the first place then. If you know tips to use chatgpt and "100x" your productivity, please share.
nobodyiam 3y ago
Pretty impressive! Using AI as a copilot is definitely the right way forward.
klik99 3y ago
On one hand - there are a lot of angry birds clones and tutorials showing you how to code an angry birds game, the choice of game here probably greatly helped the outcome. On the other hand - the way he iteratively programmed it (https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363669685916095 https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363669685916095) I can see becoming more and more useful over time. It's obviously not the most difficult example to use, but it does indicate a very interesting future.
fareesh 3y ago
Aside from the images I suspect the code is inspired by something in the training data since it's quite a common project
- simonw 3y ago
  One of the prompts they used was: "Now, I ask you: do you know how the birds are launched in Angry Birds? What the finger does on the screen? Exactly. Add this to the game, using the mouse."
gwoolhurme 3y ago
Every time I see these articles I get more and more worried about my employability to be frank... with no backup plan and way too much time poured into learning software engineering. It's not looking good gang.
- simonw 3y ago
  I'm genuinely not worried about that. As others have observed, us programmers will be in trouble when regular people learn to produce a product spec that's detailed enough that an LLM can create the working software that they need. That sounds a lot like programming to me! I expect our work will change: we'll be able to spend more time thinking about what we are building and less time typing code on our keyboards. But if anything, we're going to become more valuable - because we'll be able to get a whole lot more done.
  - gwoolhurme 3y ago
    That's fair and I hope that is the case. That might even be fun, and I mean I actually have a lot of fun with gpt-4 now. My bigger complaint there then is that you need more money to be competitive in this industry now? Until LLMs become smaller more efficient? Like back in university the best student was a Russian immigrant who learned back in Moscow on pen and paper, no compiler to mostly handhold.
    - jacknews 3y ago
      Yes it's like weavers and looms. It depends if the 'skill' of programming/creating shifts more to the LLMs vs programmers. If so market capitalism will see programming commodified. If not, and LLMs just add leverage to what programmers/creatives do, it'll move more towards a sports/entertainment model (winner takes all, or most), with probably far fewer professional participants.
  - agileAlligator 3y ago
    The workflow has shifted a step up: 1. Define problem 2. Generate specifications <- 3. Write the code Knowing how to do step 3 will get less and less important everyday.
sagarpatil 3y ago
This is brilliant. I also created a ChatGPT plugin using only GPT-4. Aardvark AI (Search for Products on Google Shopping in Real-Time, No Ads, Only Trusted Stores) It current gets around 6000-8000 search queries each month. BTS: It uses Google Shopping API to get real time results.
- BonoboIO 3y ago
  Can you give us the link? I m curious.
  - sagarpatil 3y ago
    Unfortunately, there's no direct link. You need a ChatGPT Plus subscription. Go to plugin store and search for Aardvark AI.
- tehlike 3y ago
  Are you monetizing this?
  - sagarpatil 3y ago
    Yes. It's making around 150/month through affiliate ads. My API expenses are around $50. I've listed the plugin for sale on Acquire.com as I don't have time to work on it.
    - tehlike 3y ago
      I searched around and couldn't find it.
      - tehlike 3y ago
        NVM found it https://app.acquire.com/startup/JIMnCudbdtWDIvRP2A1guBvB70T2/Ed9ULAcaCXzoomiOH2X8?source=marketplace https://app.acquire.com/startup/JIMnCudbdtWDIvRP2A1guBvB70T2...
jeswin 3y ago
That AI is transformative for development is not in doubt any more. Just this past week, I've been able to build two medium sized services (a couple of thousand lines of code in python, a language I hadn't used for more than a decade!). What's truly impressive is that for the large part, it's better than the code I'd have written anyway. Want a nice README.md? Just provide the source code that contains routes/cli args/whatever, and it'll generate it for you. Want tests? Sure. Developers have never had it so easy. One thing to note is that for code generation, GPT4 runs circles around GPT3.5. GPT35 is alright at copying if you provide very tight examples, but GPT4 kinda "thinks". Another piece of information from experience - GPT4 32k contexts fail quite often. So if you're generating let's say 10k tokens or more (around 30k characters), you'd have to give it a few tries. Another, ChatGPT is not the ideal interface for non-trivial work. You should use the API directly, or use something like Azure OpenAI Chat Playground which lets you use 32k contexts. Shameless plug: I have this open source app which automates grunt work in prompt generation - https://github.com/codespin-ai/codespin-cli https://github.com/codespin-ai/codespin-cli
penjelly 3y ago
yep, advent of chatgpt will enable software proliferation before anything else, developers have become far more powerful now, they can create in more languages and understand complex concepts faster. This will only continue until AI is good enough to work in an agent-like manner with reliable output, afterwhich, who knows what will happen.
tw061023 3y ago
I call bullshit. No prompts, no nothing, just the finished product and a few claims. Almost 200 comments and Ctrl-F "repro" is zero. Also let me be straight: I am full-on believer in AI. But not in Midjourney, DALL•E 3 and GPT-4 (or other LLMs) - these are not real AI, just VP hype cycle artifacts.
- GaggiX 3y ago
  >No prompts, no nothing, just the finished product Did you read beyond the first tweet?
  - tw061023 3y ago
    There are 6 tweets in the thread: announcement, link to the game, introduction, graphics, programming, conclusion. These tweets do not describe the exact and specific steps to reproduce the complete result. They only provide rough and obvious (for anyone ever interacted with GPT) advice, as is par for the course for AI hyping. This: > And from there, keep asking for more and more things. And every time something goes wrong, clearly explain the mistake and let it fix it. Patience! Is pathetic, and proves exactly nothing. Yep, I did not do that all the times I tried to actually see why GPT4 is so popular, thanks a lot for advice!
- danielbln 3y ago
  What is "real" AI to you? And if a lot of people derive real value out of this new wave of gen AI, but you don't, does that say more about gen AI or more about you?
  - tw061023 3y ago
    > What is "real" AI to you? An AI able to reason, obviously. Ideally able to reason better than human - and be able to explain the universe better than humans did so far. So don't feed me hallucinating LLM stupidity. > And if a lot of people derive real value out of this new wave of gen AI, but you don't, does that say more about gen AI or more about you? Good question! I'd say, given the state of things, that it says more about people.
low_tech_love 3y ago
Great! Think about all the millions of AI-generated games we can now make to complement the millions of other human-made games that are released everyday, of which we only manage to play like 0.1%! I can see this being used to maybe accelerate (even more) content generation for generic addictive MMOs and gacha games, but hopefully not much more. As if we are not already overflowing with useless, meaningless, heartless, superficial content everywhere…
- lofties 3y ago
  OK, but tell us how you really feel.
- danielbln 3y ago
  What a grumpy cynical take. We are also overflowing with useless, heartless, meaningless, superficial book content everywhere, doesn't mean Gutenberg should have dropped his printing press idea. Cream rises to the top, even if that means we have more chaff at the bottom.
  - low_tech_love 3y ago
    Your comparison is completely unrelated. Gutenberg gave people the means to distribute their work, not quickly generate soulless garbage that looks real on the surface. Maybe it’s just my personal take on gaming, but a good game for me is one that is designed with care and with interesting human-made content. Something that tells a good story, or presents an interesting challenge. Would you read a book written by an AI printed with the help of a Gutenberg press? If yes, then what is your goal when consuming art?
- psnehanshu 3y ago
  There's no use of having such a pessimistic view of the world. The 0.1% of games you play are the really good ones. If more games are made, that percentage may go down, but in absolute terms there will be some games that will be very good to play.
  - 3y ago
jhoelzel 3y ago
Isn't this largely because there are dozens of angrybird clones on github where the ai could learn from? Do GTA next :D
- unnouinceput 3y ago
  Yes it is. Same with flappy birds dude from Tencent. Try to do a simple game that is less found on internet, some obscure board game and you'll see how ChatGPT fails spectacularly. For those who knows Witcher 3 game, try asking ChatGPT to implement Gwent board game found within W3 world, or try to implement the board game Orlog that is found within the world of Assassin's Creed Valhalla game. See those implementations how they go - no need to do a GTA complex style one.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    I don't see why you'd fail. With a more obscure game, you need to elaborate on details some more. E.g. describe the specific rule instead of saying "like in Angry Birds".
    - jhoelzel 3y ago
      Well the fact is that it does not really learn. So yes you go ahead and explain in detail what will be forgotten once the context exceeds 8k tokens
      - TeMPOraL 3y ago
        Sure, but no one says you have to get it to write you the whole game in one session. Divide and conquer! As long as you keep the work items small enough to solve them within 8k context limit, GPT-4 will be able to help you with all of it! Creating a collection of system prompts to select from, as well as plain old copy-paste, are two tools you can use to provide the same context to multiple sessions, with little to zero effort.
        jhoelzel 3y ago
nutanc 3y ago
Do you think this worked so cleanly because there is a tutorial similar to this and its in the dataset? https://github.com/liabru/matter-js/wiki/Tutorials https://github.com/liabru/matter-js/wiki/Tutorials
bluescrn 3y ago
I'd be more interested in seeing AI create a game that doesn't already exist. AI auto-plagiarism is a neat party trick, but can it create something new?
- haidev 3y ago
  +1 for this especially for anything other than CRUD or an already exciting game like Angry Birds where the first GitHub searches will return several results
- dgb23 3y ago
  Angry Birds itself was sufficiently fresh and well made so people liked it. But it wasn’t really original in a true sense. One of the most appreciated games in nerd culture currently is the new Baldur’s Gate. It’s extremely well made, but not really original. Factorio or The Witness would be games that are both original and have been made with great technical and artistic care. But how many of these are made in comparison to genre games and mashups? I don’t think these tools are necessarily a hindrance to create good games. Tools are just tools.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    The question is not about a game’s freshness. The question is wether procedural generators such as chatgpt can generate something truly new or is limited to its plagiarised parameters - which seems to be the case.
  - bluescrn 3y ago
    > Angry Birds itself was sufficiently fresh and well made so people liked it. 'Crush The Castle' was an earlier Flash game with the same mechanics as Angry Birds. Angry Birds just gave it appealing characters and visuals.
junon 3y ago
> any resemblance is purely coincidental Err.. no it's not. It's trained on this stuff. It definitely knows how those games work after being trained on countless articles describing those games in detail. Cool project nonetheless though!
- qt31415926 3y ago
  FYI, it was sarcasm (the emoji at the end is the giveaway)
mattkevan 3y ago
I've literally just finished writing a Wordpress plugin with ChatGPT. It took me a few hours to build functionality that would normally need a paid plugin, and most of that time was spent working out the features. Woocommerce are charging a $50 subscription for basically the same thing. It's fantastic to be able to have an idea for something and prototype and iterate it rapidly, without having to struggle with the implementation details.
- gowld 3y ago
  $50 per what? Month? Year? https://woo.com/posts/woocommerce-pricing/ https://woo.com/posts/woocommerce-pricing/ "WooCommerce and WordPress are both free, open source software."
  - KomoD 3y ago
    He never said woo itself was paid, he said plugin... Which they very much do charge money for.
    - mattkevan 3y ago
      $49 per year in this instance [0]. Base WooCommerce is free, but a large amount of the functionality you need to actually build a working store is provided by additional plugins. Most of these have a freemium model where the features you actually need are gated behind a monthly or yearly subscription. More than a few of these plugins and the monthly price can easily be more than something like Shopify, especially when factoring in hosting. Each of these plugins also feel like they need to justify the cost, so often come larded with their own dashboards, UIs and other junk, whereas a simple script would often be better. [0] https://woo.com/products/custom-product-tabs-manager/ https://woo.com/products/custom-product-tabs-manager/
ge96 3y ago
Even if I'm reinventing the wheel I like to create. Idk guess I'm a luddite. I wouldn't feel proud/happy that I got a game created from a code generator. But it's good it empowers other people to make stuff without that wall of learning.
amadeuspagel 3y ago
You can copy Angry Birds with nothing but Google[1]. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=angry+birds+clone https://www.google.com/search?q=angry+birds+clone

651 points by hackerbeat 3y ago

We’re living in interesting times, especially from AI, ML and coding point of view. The possibilities seem endless and the reach of such tools is going to lead to an “explosion” of creativity.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
I would suggest that the past is likely a good guide in this case. Personal Computers, easier languages, HTML, World Wide Web did not really make non-creative people into creative people. I can really speak for myself. I can copy some things, but I rarely can glue and remix them together in a way that make them desirable. Personally, this is the same way I see the AI. There is potential here sure, but I do not think 2 million angry bird clones is an actual threat to a creative. Now, it will hurt low effort crap, but there is so much low effort crap out there already..
- hluska 3y ago
  I agree with you with one small reservation. This tech is an excellent way to get quick prototypes out. Most people will never go beyond that so we will see a lot more crap. But for the people that do, being able to prototype something quickly could result in some noticeably new ideas.
conductr 3y ago
It is interesting to watch. Especially as an arch in "my life with technology", this time around I'm a bystander watching what people can do with it and it is impressive. My tinkering as not been as fruitful. I feel like my grandparents that never caught on to Google-fu but, just like my grandparents, I'm ok with it.

franze 3y ago

After seeing my son rage-tapping a loading spinner I / GPT coded this game on a lazy Sunday afternoon. https://spinner.franzai.com/ https://spinner.franzai.com/ Think it could be an interesting UX pattern. Having interactive loading (spinner) games that at least give is feedback that our actions (even in between things) have impact.

mhitza 3y ago
It is an interesting approach to loading screens, and personally I would have expected way more games to use such a feature. Not AAAs, of course, but indie games. I clearly recalled having read the news about the patent of this having expired a while ago, and from a quick search, a while ago, has been 8 years ago https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-patent-finally-expires https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-pa...
- dave84 3y ago
  I remember playing Galaga while Tekken loaded on the PS1.
  - thatoneguy 3y ago
    Willy Beamish for the Sega CD had something similar, too. It was a godsend because that game's scenes took forever to load...I've only been able to revisit it thanks to flash carts that mostly eliminate the loading speed.
feirlane 3y ago
For what is worth, my partner and I just had a good laugh playing this with four hands and pushing it over 25. Really fun fidget, thanks for sharing!
deleted 3y ago
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GalaxyNova 3y ago
I got it to level 7

danielvaughn 3y ago

This is more interesting than the deluge of posts that say "I created an iOS app in 30 minutes using ChatGPT!" Which doesn't mean much because it could've done nothing more than create a simple hello world. This one at least shows the finished product, which is indeed pretty impressive. Some details I'd need to know are (a) how long did it take, (b) how many prompts, (c) how many course-corrections were required, and (d) how competent this individual was with the technologies in question. I've personally found ChatGPT extremely empowering in lots of scenarios, but code generation was not among them.

cryptoz 3y ago
I’ve been playing with ChatGPT code generation to make entire sites with flask, python, html+js+css, backed with SQLite db and it’s amazing. I’ve had it write like 5k lines that are all live in prod and working (not much traffic lol but still). A huge huge factor is knowing the limitations and getting better at prompting. And identifying likely hallucinations and asking for risks etc. I’ve found it best with tech I don’t know well (I’m an android dev using it to make websites, something I haven’t done myself in like 15 years). Most of the coolest stuff for me is help with sysadmin and running the server. The ability to debug gunicorn errors is great. I do have to modify the code it outputs as the project grows and it loses context, but honestly the context limits are the biggest hurdle for bigger projects and those will be lifted soon. Edit: Most recent site I made with like 95% code from ChatGPT is https://cosmictrip.space/ https://cosmictrip.space/ which generates prompts with GPT-4 that are then used to generate space images with DALL-E. It's a simple site but there is a secret adventure game I'm working on (GPT+Dall-E) that is open-ended image+text AI-driven game. I'm hoping to launch before Nov 6 with DALL-E 3 API (hopefully...!). The adventure game is also written like 95%+ by ChatGPT. I've had such great success with it coding that I'm using the GPT-4 API with an agent I'm making (everyone is huh). I have function calling hooked up to generate structured subtasks that the agent can then write the code for, and support for files to include context, chat with your code, etc. It's not ready to show but the GPT-4 code generation abilities are really incredible - but you have to be experienced at prompting. Your first prompts aren't likely to be great, which is why I'm hoping my agent can have success. The idea of the agent I'm writing is a Jira/kanban style board where you have AI coders assigned to tasks that you can approve and modify etc. The tickets should automatically move across the columns as the AI checks the work etc.

bigfishrunning 3y ago

So AI made a cheap copy of something people made...Can it do anything else?

solardev 3y ago
It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement
- WoodenChair 3y ago
  > It's apparently pretty good at annoying people on HN who like to downplay its every achievement It's not really "its" achievement. There are many open source repositories of Flappy Bird that it was trained on and there are many brilliant engineers at Google and OpenAI who have worked on LLM technology. It is their achievement if anything. It is a product. A product of others' achievement. You don't say Excel had an achievement when it calculates a good formula for you? Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did.
  - famouswaffles 3y ago
    >Do you say a neural network that produces great speech to text had an achievement? Or do say the people who developed it did. Sure Why not? The engineers at google and open ai or wherever else trained the models but they didn't teach it how to do anything it does because they don't know how to teach it to do anything it does. So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. Many people gave the likes of alpha go achievement on super human Go play.
    - throw555chip 3y ago
      > So yeah the achievement is on the neural network. It is? OK, tell them to completely clear the model of any angry bird original and clone code, data and assets that it scarfed from the Internet. It can retain scarfed definitions of angry and bird as well as scarfed information on making a 2D video game. Then tell the model to create the game and see what if anything it comes up with.

m3kw9 3y ago

Prob needed to a ton of glue code to have it at quality

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mhitza 3y ago

How do I read the Twitter thread if I don't have an account?

papercrane 3y ago
You should be able to replace twitter.com with nitter.net https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
vuln 3y ago
The same way you deal with pay walled news articles. Sign up, check archives/cache, or move on.
smhg 3y ago
I don't have one either but I could read it on Mastodon. If it helps someone: https://fosstodon.org/@javilopen@bird.makeup/111332485943091285 https://fosstodon.org/@javilopen@bird.makeup/111332485943091...

efitz 3y ago

This was amazing work. I consistently underestimate what generative AI can do. Also: I think you just scared the daylights out of a lot of mobile game developers and inspired many more.

Dudester230602 3y ago
Mobile games are a mix of half-arsed Steam game ports, polished ad-budget-driven exploitation machines and trash. I think the trash producers will be excited, not scared. The other two kinds won't care.

xwdv 3y ago

Everyone will think this impressive, but they’re not game developers. You could literally make all this in probably 24 hours and not spend any time mucking around with prompts. Like what are we even seeing here? Basically a tech demo of a physics engine, a little UI interaction for throwing a collidable entity into other entities, and some code for setting up a level? Show me the maintenance, adding new features, bug fixing, cross platform compatibility, shaders, networking code, sound, etc.

Veuxdo 3y ago
And, most importantly, marketing.
dan-g 3y ago
You could argue then that this reduces the barrier to entry for people to become game developers. Isn’t everything you just listed (physics engine, UI, collide entities) how you make a simple game? It doesn’t matter that it doesn’t have networking code, shaders, or sound. Those things can be added later. I don’t think it’s productive to gatekeep who is and isn’t a game developer. They developed a game, that makes them a game developer—it doesn’t matter how they got there.
- raytopia 3y ago
  I'm not sure how this reduces the barrier to game developement. There are already lots of free assets and game engines designed for making arcade games that are a lot easier then say Unity or Unreal. Like https://arcade.makecode.com/ https://arcade.makecode.com/ or https://microstudio.dev/ https://microstudio.dev/ or https://scratch.mit.edu/ https://scratch.mit.edu/. And if you don't want to make arcade games there are other tools like RPG Maker, RenPy, GDevelop, and many more each of which are much easier to use then this AI pipeline (not to say it isn't impressive you can do this with AI though) and will lead to better outcomes of actually understanding game development.
  - gowld 3y ago
    All of those things require me to write code, in an annoying, slow, hard to debug click-drag format. I'd rather the AI write the code for me based on my natural language description of what I want.

LastTrain 3y ago

This is interesting, but, the "nothing but AI" part is clearly not true and so I'm not exactly sure what was done here.

Kiro 3y ago
What do you mean?
carnitine 3y ago
You’re saying that based on what? All the code and assets are AI.
- LastTrain 3y ago
  The music?
  - omarfarooq 3y ago
    There's AI for that too, now.
    - LastTrain 3y ago
      But it wasn't used to generate the music in this "game" that isn't a game. This was my point - that it is unclear exactly what AI did and did not do in this case. Like, I'm 100% sure my mom could not have done this, so, not "all" AI like the title says.
      - ziddoap 3y ago
        >"game" that isn't a game. Why is it not a game? I even played it a bit -- was I hallucinating?
      - simonw 3y ago
        The Angry Pumpkins game doesn't have sound effects or music - you can play it here: https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html The Twitter thread shows exactly what the AI made. It was used for the JavaScript code and the image assets. If you don't have a Twitter account you can see the full content on Nitter https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 or in my Gist copy: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c...

jpallen 3y ago

This is very cool! It's not as impressive, but here is a video of me writing Game of Life only by speaking out loud to VS Code: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSplhZ0DlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NSplhZ0DlY I did that by building an open source VS Code extension to interact with GPT3.5/4 directly from your editor: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Biggles.biggles https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=Biggles..... It cuts out copy/pasting between ChatGPT and your editor, or writing any boiler plate code since you can just ask it to insert the code you want, or change the code you have highlighted. You can also talk to it directly using the Whisper API!

invalidusernam3 3y ago

I did a similar exercise recently when I needed to make a fairly basic rest API and CRUD frontend using 2 frameworks I wasn't particularly familiar with. I used GPT4 to generate ALL the code for it. I'll write a blog post about it soon, but a quick overview was: I suspect it was slower than just writing the code/referencing the docs, and would be much slower than someone could do if they were experienced with the two frameworks. I had to be very specific and write a few long and detailed prompts for the more complex parts of a the application. It took around 5 hours to make the application, with a lot of that time spent sitting waiting for the (sometimes painfully slow) ChatGPT output. In a framework I'm more familiar with I think I could have easily got it done in under 2 hours It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any questions. It was also very useful for generating perfectly formatted boilerplate code (some frameworks have CRUD generation built in, but this one did not). It was a fun experiment, and I found it useful as a learning/guiding/generation tool, but I won't be using it for general day to day development any more than I currently do. For most instances it's quicker to just learn the framework well and write the code yourself.

_ea1k 3y ago
> It was definitely useful for making sure I was doing it the correct way, kind of like have an expert on call for any questions. I've found it to be shockingly good at this. I end up asking a lot of questions like, "what is the best directory structure for a project on {foo} platform?" or "What is the idiomatic way to do {x} in {language y}?" It has the advantage of having seen lots of projects in every language, and for some questions that automatically leads to a good answer.
- Spivak 3y ago
  I use Sourcegraph a lot for this when GPT can't get a satisfying answer.
- dartos 3y ago
  I always get the classic “It really depends on your use case and neither pattern is exactly better than the other” when asking gpt about programming patterns

burkaman 3y ago

Here's the code: https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/sketch.js https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/sketch.js

monkpit 3y ago

I realize this comment isn’t directly related to the article, but it got me thinking… I wonder what effect AI will have on the next generation of gaming consoles. Will they get beefier GPU capabilities to leverage local models? Will they use cloud capacity to host models and games require always-online capability to play as intended? Some mixture of both? Also, I hope that AI won’t turn into the next way to just ruin everything that was already good. A bunch of rehashed unoriginal ideas, like “it’s Pac-Man, but with AI!” Please, no.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

kevinsync 3y ago

Despite the expected contrarianism in the comments, and I promise I'm being positive here, I'm pretty sure GPT-4 did really well on this task because a quick Google search shows a bunch of existing projects spanning blogs, GitHub and YouTube that it almost certainly trained on: https://www.google.com/search?q=matter.js+angry+birds+clone https://www.google.com/search?q=matter.js+angry+birds+clone This is not a Bad Thing (tm) -- it's actually really sick because you can quickly get out of the weeds and get productive, especially if your skillset is not as deep as you'd have needed to accomplish even half of this a decade ago. Nobody ever said paint by numbers was capital-P "Painting", but sometimes it's a blast to do one. I remember being 12 and making custom WADs for Doom / Hexen; my 6th grade son builds endlessly-creative and complicated modded Minecraft worlds with detailed machinery and electrical circuits and all this crazy seemingly-adherent-to-real-world-physics shit. Angry Pumpkins is arguably an order of magnitude better than simply re-skinning a Cyberdemon, because lowering the "time-to-screen" with any project (and in this case, providing a blueprint) is fun, creative, and most importantly ENCOURAGING for the next generation. Anyways, I like it!

hnlmorg 3y ago
That’s a really interesting perspective. Thank you for sharing.
epiccoleman 3y ago
Thanks for writing this. This really mirrors my own perspective. Yeah, these tools aren't exactly "learning to fish," but if this gets someone excited about "fishing', then that's a good thing. A lot of my early coding experiences were in a similar vein to what you described, altering gamemaker projects and things like that. And even now I have a lot of fun playing with this AI stuff. It can help me go from 0 to 20% on something I previously knew nothing about, and sometimes that initial boost is all I need to get over the friction and actually do something cool. Or sometimes I realize that it's not worth the amount of effort it would take to go to the next 80%. That's OK too. I totally understand the cynicism around this stuff, but for me it's like... 99% exciting and cool.
croes 3y ago
Ok, but many of these AI tools are promoted as Programming bots with a capital-P

neilv 3y ago

This statistical plagiarism laundering is pretty neat. IMHO, stopping the laundering gold rush is a more urgent priority for law, than creating market moats for the current big pickaxe vendors and pretending it's about preventing HAL.

matsemann 3y ago

I honestly don't think the coding is that impressive. What sells it is the assets. It used to be that all quick demos / gamejam like games like these (which it honestly is) looked like crap. Now it suddenly can look a bit polished. Not just boxes and lines, but actually somewhat nice graphics (which is probably too close to what it mimics and would end with a angry letter from a bird attorney if was used in an actual game, though).

djmips 3y ago
new game idea. Angry letters!

rideontime 3y ago

Are there any plagiarism detection tools for software? Because I'm very curious how closely this code matches one of the many JS Angry Bird clone tutorials out there.

notfed 3y ago
There is always GitHub search.
tomduncalf 3y ago
Someone showed me a similar game type thing they had made with GPT-4 and I could find the code that it had used just by searching Github. It had taken an open source project and made some modifications and spliced a few extra bits together - which is still impressive but the bulk of it was already out there. This matched my limited experience too, unsurprisingly it does a lot better for problems where there is already code and discussion out there. I wasn't able to find exact code for the posted game though so I think something cleverer may have occurred!

ThalesX 3y ago

This inspired me to try and get a sprite sheet with the top down animations for a paladin for a potential RPG game. See me fail here: https://imgur.com/a/2uJyUT3 https://imgur.com/a/2uJyUT3 Actual order was top down variants first, and then the last one was the side view as I was curious what it'd show.

elliottcarlson 3y ago
I've used midjourney to create ttrpg tokens in the past, and the best way I was able to do so was to say "aerial view" -- top down was very flakey in if it would work. I wonder if Dall-E 3 needs the same guidance.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

la64710 3y ago

The real challenge is generating a large code base (think more than a JavaScript loaded page) - the front end backend and everything in between and then automating the testing and deployment …

simonw 3y ago

Twitter is a bad place to share original content these days, because anyone without a Twitter account not only won't be able to see anything more than the first tweet but (crucially) won't even see a visual indicator that there IS more content to see. Here's a screenshot to illustrate: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df?permalink_comment_id=4745199#gistcomment-4745199 https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c... For people without a Twitter account, I've pasted the content of the thread into a Gist here: https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c3df https://gist.github.com/simonw/f7ed52daaa66f849858d17e0d6c1c... The most important missing link is the live demo, https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html https://bestaiprompts.art/angry-pumpkins/index.html

lazycouchpotato 3y ago
There's Nitter.net for now, thankfully. Nitter link: https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401 https://nitter.net/javilopen/status/1719363262179938401
- 1f60c 3y ago
  There’s a list of Nitter instances here, if the flagship instance isn’t working (this happens from time to time): https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances
  - lazycouchpotato 3y ago
    Oh I wasn't aware there were other instances. Thanks!
worldsayshi 3y ago
And also, who knows where Twitter will be in a year. This could all disappear in a black whole judging by the somewhat chaotic developments.
mackwell 3y ago
I have an account and half the time when I follow a link from HN to Twitter / X it just throws an error that something went wrong / can't load the tweet. And video content works even less often than that. The site seems like it barely works at this point and is rapidly becoming a ghost town. What a waste.

demondemidi 3y ago

Does it generate the same result for everyone who enters the prompts? (Not an AI guy here)

simonw 3y ago
No, it won't. There's a big random element to this, especially when you are prompting GPT-4 directly through the ChatGPT interface. Image generation models can sometimes produce the exact same image if you fix the seed they are using - there are different procedures for doing that for different image models. LLMs like GPT-4 can have their "temperature" dialled down, but even at 0 they aren't guaranteed to return exactly the same response to a given prompt. I believe this is because they run floating point operations in parallel across multiple GPUs and floating point arithmetic isn't actually commutative - you can get back a slightly different result if the multiplications run in a different order.

product-render 3y ago

Always instructional how eager a lot of people are to not pay artists. I'm guessing the mood will be less celebratory when we can stop paying most programmers.

toiletfuneral 3y ago
[dead]
alright2565 3y ago
This article is about replacing programmers with AI. I, personally, will celebrate, since it'll allow me to explore opportunities I would not have time for on my own. And I'm not worried for my career, since 99% of people will still be unable to think and write coherently enough to use the AI tools. And I think the reality here is not so much being unwilling to pay artists as the budget being extremely low. If I've got an art budget of $10 for a quick experiment like this, I'm not going to hire an artist, I'm just going to use the circle tool in GIMP.
- tw061023 3y ago
  This article is about precisely nothing, as almost all AI articles are. By the way, I have a nice bridge for sale.
somsak2 3y ago
It's interesting how most don't consider programmers artists, even though coding requires quite a bit of creativity.
vunderba 3y ago
Did you read the actual post? They use generative AI to replace both programmers AND artists. And if anything programmers have been at risk of replacement FAR longer than traditional artists. Low code solutions in the form of Squarespace for web programming, AirTable for CRUD, Unity for making games, the list goes ON AND ON.

dools 3y ago

I find it interesting that over the past decade so much investment has gone into making no code tools, and now ChatGPT is so good at writing code that it’s probably faster, more flexible and approaching the same level of usability for technically minded but non coding type folks. I recently had to create a demo app to consume and publish a REST service using Mendix and it took a couple of days to figure out all the details, but doing the same thing in any language (bash for example) using ChatGPT would have taken minutes. Deployment and version control can be solved without much technical prowess using PaaS/IaaS, especially if you’re comparing your costs with enterprise no code platforms. It may be my personal bias talking (I’ve always disliked no code platforms because they feel more cumbersome when you have to do anything serious, I dislike ActiveRecord ORMs for similar reasons) but it kind of seems like No Code will be obsolete pretty soon. Who wants to drag and drop when you can just ask, copy and paste?

elicksaur 3y ago
Would it have taken minutes? Can you try and give us real, rather than speculative, feedback? Shouldn’t take much time!
- dools 3y ago
  Sure here you go: https://chat.openai.com/share/f98d04b9-6d93-46b7-9fa9-7c9ec14259c5 https://chat.openai.com/share/f98d04b9-6d93-46b7-9fa9-7c9ec1...
silisili 3y ago
I think this solution is about the perfect thing I can come up with, conceptually. Nocode is easy but rigid. Coding is flexible but tedious and error prone. Being able to talk out what you want to quickly get the code, as long as it's clean, gives you the flexibility to then tune as needed. And in some cases, like apparently this one, that wasn't even necessary. Exciting times ahead...
- dools 3y ago
  I guess the thing that's still lacking from an AI code solution is security guard rails. My demo below for example is open to injection attacks but I think that could be solved with fine tuning or custom instructions. You can't just have amateurs copying and pasting stuff into production environments, but even the task of writing tests can be given to an AI. Like you get one AI to write some code, then you get another AI to write code to test it. The chances of perfectl complementary errors are pretty low, but even if that happens you then get an AI to write a frontend script to run automated integration tests, and then have some human quality control at the end. Really, I think a code-based AI pipeline has much more long term potential than no code does. The interfaces are just so laborious.

low_tech_punk 3y ago

The super power of GPT is allowing a generalist to become specialists in diverse disciplines just-in-time.

gverrilla 3y ago
I wouldn't say specialist, because GPT often ignores full context of the information. Sometimes, if a system is composed of A B C D E, and you only mention the first 4, it will answer with no problem as if E was irrelevant. As soon as you introduce E, then, it will quickly say sorry and reconsider. I'm a true hardcore generalist, and gpt can help a lot, but I wouldn't say I can become a specialist with it because it doesn't investigate at all - if you don't mention it, a lot of times it's as if it doesn't even exist.
danielbln 3y ago
As a technical generalist I certainly find myself pretty empowered by these LLMs. It's never been easier to dive into a new problem, figure out the boundaries and solution paths and get cracking.

dgs_sgd 3y ago

This is exciting, like we’re about to enter a new golden age for indie apps and games.

tetrisgm 3y ago

Disclaimer: I was a PM on Angry Birds. This is such a great demo. The original used Box2D,LUA scripting, and of course you had to make enemies and levels. There's obviously no expectation that you'd make a hit game from the tech in its current state. You're bound to be limited by the tech, rather than your own skills. But for rapid ideas, for prototypes, for game jams, this is a game changer. I can also see it as a great alternative to Scratch for kids to play around with ideas. Hope to see more platforms try to turn this into an offering!

vvoyer 3y ago
Nice, what's the craziest story about your time here
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- tetrisgm 3y ago
  Would derail the thread pretty hard and I'm not sure even which one to pick. But my favorite memory was walking the streets of Seoul and getting in a little street market. There was this kid who was the son of the shop owner, playing on a cheap Android device. Super into the last update we shipped. You could tell he was gonna sit there on the floor in the corner and this would be his day. I was suddenly so self conscious about how we made levels and updates. Until then it was just the next update at the office, we had to make it good and polished and respectful of the player. But now it was this kid's world, much like Super Mario Bros had been to me. It was important. It was a really humbling moment.
  - savolai 3y ago
    It would be wonderful if such stories were more prevalent and lauded in the overall industry: at the ens of the day, it's not about specific tech but about how we end up affecting concrete lives. Human-computer interaction as a research field is all about this; seeing the others' perspective. Sadly it's seems to be largely seen as niche activity by the wider community.

tayo42 3y ago

idk why it wasnt obvious to me before, i never bothered trying to make games because i wasnt good at digital art and didn't really have the interest to try to be. i should now... lol

tmountain 3y ago
We are still lacking a reliable method to generate animated sprites. I’m very excited about the prospect of that day arriving sometime soon.

two_in_one 3y ago

Cool! The coolest here is not the game, it's the fact that AI is being used for software development. Actually ChatGPT is used for more serious and practical applications. But I started with games too. Having fun makes it easier to start. You can think of AI (today) as very knowledgeable and not very smart assistant. Complex project requires a lot of prompts. Human's task is to put it all together, test, ask for new parts and corrections. And this is just a beginning...

atleastoptimal 3y ago

There have got to be some freelancers/remote workers who have 100x'ed their productivity using GPT-4 and AI tools correctly. I can't imagine all these cool hacks exist in a vacuum. Imagine what we'll have in 2 years. The genie is out of the bottle.

TheRoque 3y ago
100x? Well they probably weren't very productive in the first place then. If you know tips to use chatgpt and "100x" your productivity, please share.

nobodyiam 3y ago

Pretty impressive! Using AI as a copilot is definitely the right way forward.

klik99 3y ago

On one hand - there are a lot of angry birds clones and tutorials showing you how to code an angry birds game, the choice of game here probably greatly helped the outcome. On the other hand - the way he iteratively programmed it (https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363669685916095 https://twitter.com/javilopen/status/1719363669685916095) I can see becoming more and more useful over time. It's obviously not the most difficult example to use, but it does indicate a very interesting future.

fareesh 3y ago

Aside from the images I suspect the code is inspired by something in the training data since it's quite a common project

simonw 3y ago
One of the prompts they used was: "Now, I ask you: do you know how the birds are launched in Angry Birds? What the finger does on the screen? Exactly. Add this to the game, using the mouse."

gwoolhurme 3y ago

Every time I see these articles I get more and more worried about my employability to be frank... with no backup plan and way too much time poured into learning software engineering. It's not looking good gang.

simonw 3y ago
I'm genuinely not worried about that. As others have observed, us programmers will be in trouble when regular people learn to produce a product spec that's detailed enough that an LLM can create the working software that they need. That sounds a lot like programming to me! I expect our work will change: we'll be able to spend more time thinking about what we are building and less time typing code on our keyboards. But if anything, we're going to become more valuable - because we'll be able to get a whole lot more done.
- gwoolhurme 3y ago
  That's fair and I hope that is the case. That might even be fun, and I mean I actually have a lot of fun with gpt-4 now. My bigger complaint there then is that you need more money to be competitive in this industry now? Until LLMs become smaller more efficient? Like back in university the best student was a Russian immigrant who learned back in Moscow on pen and paper, no compiler to mostly handhold.
  - jacknews 3y ago
    Yes it's like weavers and looms. It depends if the 'skill' of programming/creating shifts more to the LLMs vs programmers. If so market capitalism will see programming commodified. If not, and LLMs just add leverage to what programmers/creatives do, it'll move more towards a sports/entertainment model (winner takes all, or most), with probably far fewer professional participants.
- agileAlligator 3y ago
  The workflow has shifted a step up: 1. Define problem 2. Generate specifications <- 3. Write the code Knowing how to do step 3 will get less and less important everyday.

sagarpatil 3y ago

This is brilliant. I also created a ChatGPT plugin using only GPT-4. Aardvark AI (Search for Products on Google Shopping in Real-Time, No Ads, Only Trusted Stores) It current gets around 6000-8000 search queries each month. BTS: It uses Google Shopping API to get real time results.

BonoboIO 3y ago
Can you give us the link? I m curious.
- sagarpatil 3y ago
  Unfortunately, there's no direct link. You need a ChatGPT Plus subscription. Go to plugin store and search for Aardvark AI.
tehlike 3y ago
Are you monetizing this?
- sagarpatil 3y ago
  Yes. It's making around 150/month through affiliate ads. My API expenses are around $50. I've listed the plugin for sale on Acquire.com as I don't have time to work on it.
  - tehlike 3y ago
    I searched around and couldn't find it.
    - tehlike 3y ago
      NVM found it https://app.acquire.com/startup/JIMnCudbdtWDIvRP2A1guBvB70T2/Ed9ULAcaCXzoomiOH2X8?source=marketplace https://app.acquire.com/startup/JIMnCudbdtWDIvRP2A1guBvB70T2...

jeswin 3y ago

That AI is transformative for development is not in doubt any more. Just this past week, I've been able to build two medium sized services (a couple of thousand lines of code in python, a language I hadn't used for more than a decade!). What's truly impressive is that for the large part, it's better than the code I'd have written anyway. Want a nice README.md? Just provide the source code that contains routes/cli args/whatever, and it'll generate it for you. Want tests? Sure. Developers have never had it so easy. One thing to note is that for code generation, GPT4 runs circles around GPT3.5. GPT35 is alright at copying if you provide very tight examples, but GPT4 kinda "thinks". Another piece of information from experience - GPT4 32k contexts fail quite often. So if you're generating let's say 10k tokens or more (around 30k characters), you'd have to give it a few tries. Another, ChatGPT is not the ideal interface for non-trivial work. You should use the API directly, or use something like Azure OpenAI Chat Playground which lets you use 32k contexts. Shameless plug: I have this open source app which automates grunt work in prompt generation - https://github.com/codespin-ai/codespin-cli https://github.com/codespin-ai/codespin-cli

penjelly 3y ago

yep, advent of chatgpt will enable software proliferation before anything else, developers have become far more powerful now, they can create in more languages and understand complex concepts faster. This will only continue until AI is good enough to work in an agent-like manner with reliable output, afterwhich, who knows what will happen.

tw061023 3y ago

I call bullshit. No prompts, no nothing, just the finished product and a few claims. Almost 200 comments and Ctrl-F "repro" is zero. Also let me be straight: I am full-on believer in AI. But not in Midjourney, DALL•E 3 and GPT-4 (or other LLMs) - these are not real AI, just VP hype cycle artifacts.

GaggiX 3y ago
>No prompts, no nothing, just the finished product Did you read beyond the first tweet?
- tw061023 3y ago
  There are 6 tweets in the thread: announcement, link to the game, introduction, graphics, programming, conclusion. These tweets do not describe the exact and specific steps to reproduce the complete result. They only provide rough and obvious (for anyone ever interacted with GPT) advice, as is par for the course for AI hyping. This: > And from there, keep asking for more and more things. And every time something goes wrong, clearly explain the mistake and let it fix it. Patience! Is pathetic, and proves exactly nothing. Yep, I did not do that all the times I tried to actually see why GPT4 is so popular, thanks a lot for advice!
danielbln 3y ago
What is "real" AI to you? And if a lot of people derive real value out of this new wave of gen AI, but you don't, does that say more about gen AI or more about you?
- tw061023 3y ago
  > What is "real" AI to you? An AI able to reason, obviously. Ideally able to reason better than human - and be able to explain the universe better than humans did so far. So don't feed me hallucinating LLM stupidity. > And if a lot of people derive real value out of this new wave of gen AI, but you don't, does that say more about gen AI or more about you? Good question! I'd say, given the state of things, that it says more about people.

low_tech_love 3y ago

Great! Think about all the millions of AI-generated games we can now make to complement the millions of other human-made games that are released everyday, of which we only manage to play like 0.1%! I can see this being used to maybe accelerate (even more) content generation for generic addictive MMOs and gacha games, but hopefully not much more. As if we are not already overflowing with useless, meaningless, heartless, superficial content everywhere…

lofties 3y ago
OK, but tell us how you really feel.
danielbln 3y ago
What a grumpy cynical take. We are also overflowing with useless, heartless, meaningless, superficial book content everywhere, doesn't mean Gutenberg should have dropped his printing press idea. Cream rises to the top, even if that means we have more chaff at the bottom.
- low_tech_love 3y ago
  Your comparison is completely unrelated. Gutenberg gave people the means to distribute their work, not quickly generate soulless garbage that looks real on the surface. Maybe it’s just my personal take on gaming, but a good game for me is one that is designed with care and with interesting human-made content. Something that tells a good story, or presents an interesting challenge. Would you read a book written by an AI printed with the help of a Gutenberg press? If yes, then what is your goal when consuming art?
psnehanshu 3y ago
There's no use of having such a pessimistic view of the world. The 0.1% of games you play are the really good ones. If more games are made, that percentage may go down, but in absolute terms there will be some games that will be very good to play.
- 3y ago

jhoelzel 3y ago

Isn't this largely because there are dozens of angrybird clones on github where the ai could learn from? Do GTA next :D

unnouinceput 3y ago
Yes it is. Same with flappy birds dude from Tencent. Try to do a simple game that is less found on internet, some obscure board game and you'll see how ChatGPT fails spectacularly. For those who knows Witcher 3 game, try asking ChatGPT to implement Gwent board game found within W3 world, or try to implement the board game Orlog that is found within the world of Assassin's Creed Valhalla game. See those implementations how they go - no need to do a GTA complex style one.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  I don't see why you'd fail. With a more obscure game, you need to elaborate on details some more. E.g. describe the specific rule instead of saying "like in Angry Birds".
  - jhoelzel 3y ago
    Well the fact is that it does not really learn. So yes you go ahead and explain in detail what will be forgotten once the context exceeds 8k tokens
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Sure, but no one says you have to get it to write you the whole game in one session. Divide and conquer! As long as you keep the work items small enough to solve them within 8k context limit, GPT-4 will be able to help you with all of it! Creating a collection of system prompts to select from, as well as plain old copy-paste, are two tools you can use to provide the same context to multiple sessions, with little to zero effort.
      - jhoelzel 3y ago

nutanc 3y ago

Do you think this worked so cleanly because there is a tutorial similar to this and its in the dataset? https://github.com/liabru/matter-js/wiki/Tutorials https://github.com/liabru/matter-js/wiki/Tutorials

bluescrn 3y ago

I'd be more interested in seeing AI create a game that doesn't already exist. AI auto-plagiarism is a neat party trick, but can it create something new?

haidev 3y ago
+1 for this especially for anything other than CRUD or an already exciting game like Angry Birds where the first GitHub searches will return several results
dgb23 3y ago
Angry Birds itself was sufficiently fresh and well made so people liked it. But it wasn’t really original in a true sense. One of the most appreciated games in nerd culture currently is the new Baldur’s Gate. It’s extremely well made, but not really original. Factorio or The Witness would be games that are both original and have been made with great technical and artistic care. But how many of these are made in comparison to genre games and mashups? I don’t think these tools are necessarily a hindrance to create good games. Tools are just tools.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  The question is not about a game’s freshness. The question is wether procedural generators such as chatgpt can generate something truly new or is limited to its plagiarised parameters - which seems to be the case.
- bluescrn 3y ago
  > Angry Birds itself was sufficiently fresh and well made so people liked it. 'Crush The Castle' was an earlier Flash game with the same mechanics as Angry Birds. Angry Birds just gave it appealing characters and visuals.

junon 3y ago

> any resemblance is purely coincidental Err.. no it's not. It's trained on this stuff. It definitely knows how those games work after being trained on countless articles describing those games in detail. Cool project nonetheless though!

qt31415926 3y ago
FYI, it was sarcasm (the emoji at the end is the giveaway)

mattkevan 3y ago

I've literally just finished writing a Wordpress plugin with ChatGPT. It took me a few hours to build functionality that would normally need a paid plugin, and most of that time was spent working out the features. Woocommerce are charging a $50 subscription for basically the same thing. It's fantastic to be able to have an idea for something and prototype and iterate it rapidly, without having to struggle with the implementation details.

gowld 3y ago
$50 per what? Month? Year? https://woo.com/posts/woocommerce-pricing/ https://woo.com/posts/woocommerce-pricing/ "WooCommerce and WordPress are both free, open source software."
- KomoD 3y ago
  He never said woo itself was paid, he said plugin... Which they very much do charge money for.
  - mattkevan 3y ago
    $49 per year in this instance [0]. Base WooCommerce is free, but a large amount of the functionality you need to actually build a working store is provided by additional plugins. Most of these have a freemium model where the features you actually need are gated behind a monthly or yearly subscription. More than a few of these plugins and the monthly price can easily be more than something like Shopify, especially when factoring in hosting. Each of these plugins also feel like they need to justify the cost, so often come larded with their own dashboards, UIs and other junk, whereas a simple script would often be better. [0] https://woo.com/products/custom-product-tabs-manager/ https://woo.com/products/custom-product-tabs-manager/

ge96 3y ago

Even if I'm reinventing the wheel I like to create. Idk guess I'm a luddite. I wouldn't feel proud/happy that I got a game created from a code generator. But it's good it empowers other people to make stuff without that wall of learning.

amadeuspagel 3y ago

You can copy Angry Birds with nothing but Google[1]. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=angry+birds+clone https://www.google.com/search?q=angry+birds+clone