4 ms·

or join with the authorities to maintain law and order. You spin it as "cartel" but why can't it be spun as Law & Order? Or do you think that cheaters should

or join with the authorities to maintain law and order. You spin it as "cartel" but why can't it be spun as Law & Order? Or do you think that cheaters should have unrestricted control and the ability to destroy the economy of any given game? You think people will play on platforms that aren't working to keep things even? This is the same argument for P2W games where you can just pay to be the best. A few people will argue for that as they drop thousands to get those "rare" loot boxes and the rest will say "it's no fun to play a game against someone who's paying to be better than they really are".

harry8 3y ago
> why can't it be spun as Law & Order Law & Order is neither profit making nor competition destroying.
- wernercd 3y ago
  and a cartel isn't made to have a level playing field fighting cheaters. Cartels are made to make money. you want to cut the Law and Order angle then you need to also cut the "cartel" angle. Fact is that if XBox doesn't take steps then their platform becomes less valuable meaning less people want to play there. "it's only about money" is a short sighted and overly simplistic answer just like "M$ is a cartel".
  - harry8 3y ago
    Microsoft's only motivation for anything is the maximisation of shareholder value. There are things we in society don't allow corporations to do in their pursuit of profit. We codify those things in law. This thing they want to do is one of them.
    - wernercd 3y ago
      "only" is a strong word and obviously not true. Mainly? Sure... but only? a company with thousands of employees "only" wants one thing? And saying it's illegal is a bit too strong as well. Maybe in the EU but even then? The EU just made a decade of things obsolete when forcing Apple to switch to USB-C so saying "companies can't do that because illegal" obviously isn't true. And what is illegal in EU is legal in America or vice versa... or brazil... or China... so saying "society doesn't allow" is too simplistic on that level as well. In America it's illegal to break DRM. Companies like Apple and Nintendo do stuff so that you can't run custom code or use unauthorized attachments/parts/etc. if you break the DRM you can get sued as a company that provides that service. And you haven't address the fact that MS, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, etc all have to have stable trustworthy platforms for gaming - that goes beyond "they only want money"- sure, they want money but part of getting that is having platforms people want to use. That they trust. That makes cheating harder and provides a level playing field. Take a step back and realize that "greedy" companies aren't as simplistic as you want to make them out to be and even if they are "greedy"? They do have valid reasons to do shit like this.
      - harry8 3y ago
        Employees will want many different things and have many differing systems of morals of different strengths including some being totally amoral. Microsoft is an organisation focused on maximisation of shareholder value. Literally anything they do contrary to that gets them sued for securities fraud. Any employee who morally objects to any action taken by the company can suck it up, resign or commit sabotage for which they will be fired if found out. Microsoft management have to be ready to defend any and every action as being at the very least not detrimental to shareholder value in court.
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  > Law & Order is neither profit making My sweet summer child
hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
I don’t play online games. Are you telling me what I can and cannot do in a single player game?
- wernercd 3y ago
  To be fair, I think the vast majority of this is about online. Keeping a clean and hack free experience isn't just about selling proprietary controllers - it's also bout blocking cheating and keeping things sane. (and single player games have Trophies which is online so... depending on how much you value pixelated trophies? those would be affected by "cheating in single player") Remember... this is Microsoft. The same company that had YEARS of bad press because bad third party drivers was one of the largest causes of windows crashes. So even if you never play online (I don't either) and only play single player games (FF and similar games here)? There's nothing worse than a shitty controller to ruin an experience. It's possible some otherwise perfect controllers might lose their spot if they get "banned" because they aren't "upgraded" with "security chips" (or whatever) and you might be affected but in aggregate its something a company the size of MS has to take into account. We'll see how it plays out but I'm not surprised (after reading comments about cheating stuff used by others in stuff like controllers).
  - hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
    You’re literally talking about creating a walled garden around what is currently an open ecosystem in which devices already purchased by people - including people with limited financial resources - will no longer work. All under the justification of ‘it solves cheating’. PC games have cheaters since forever, they’ve worked around that problem despite having less operating system and hardware control. Not to mention the fact that eventually any hardware based controls will be circumvented - this is a device which converts mechanical actions to digital, so there’s nothing to stop physical control modifications. The whole thing is either lazy, incompetent, or greedy, and won’t solve anything anyway.
    - OGWhales 3y ago
      > PC games have cheaters since forever, they’ve worked around that problem despite having less operating system and hardware control. Have they though? Cheaters are rampant in most games, meanwhile consoles have been highly successfully in preventing cheaters from using things like wallhacks and aimbotting.

harry8 3y ago

> why can't it be spun as Law & Order Law & Order is neither profit making nor competition destroying.

wernercd 3y ago
and a cartel isn't made to have a level playing field fighting cheaters. Cartels are made to make money. you want to cut the Law and Order angle then you need to also cut the "cartel" angle. Fact is that if XBox doesn't take steps then their platform becomes less valuable meaning less people want to play there. "it's only about money" is a short sighted and overly simplistic answer just like "M$ is a cartel".
- harry8 3y ago
  Microsoft's only motivation for anything is the maximisation of shareholder value. There are things we in society don't allow corporations to do in their pursuit of profit. We codify those things in law. This thing they want to do is one of them.
  - wernercd 3y ago
    "only" is a strong word and obviously not true. Mainly? Sure... but only? a company with thousands of employees "only" wants one thing? And saying it's illegal is a bit too strong as well. Maybe in the EU but even then? The EU just made a decade of things obsolete when forcing Apple to switch to USB-C so saying "companies can't do that because illegal" obviously isn't true. And what is illegal in EU is legal in America or vice versa... or brazil... or China... so saying "society doesn't allow" is too simplistic on that level as well. In America it's illegal to break DRM. Companies like Apple and Nintendo do stuff so that you can't run custom code or use unauthorized attachments/parts/etc. if you break the DRM you can get sued as a company that provides that service. And you haven't address the fact that MS, Sony, Nintendo, Apple, etc all have to have stable trustworthy platforms for gaming - that goes beyond "they only want money"- sure, they want money but part of getting that is having platforms people want to use. That they trust. That makes cheating harder and provides a level playing field. Take a step back and realize that "greedy" companies aren't as simplistic as you want to make them out to be and even if they are "greedy"? They do have valid reasons to do shit like this.
    - harry8 3y ago
      Employees will want many different things and have many differing systems of morals of different strengths including some being totally amoral. Microsoft is an organisation focused on maximisation of shareholder value. Literally anything they do contrary to that gets them sued for securities fraud. Any employee who morally objects to any action taken by the company can suck it up, resign or commit sabotage for which they will be fired if found out. Microsoft management have to be ready to defend any and every action as being at the very least not detrimental to shareholder value in court.
RobotToaster 3y ago
> Law & Order is neither profit making My sweet summer child

hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago

I don’t play online games. Are you telling me what I can and cannot do in a single player game?

wernercd 3y ago
To be fair, I think the vast majority of this is about online. Keeping a clean and hack free experience isn't just about selling proprietary controllers - it's also bout blocking cheating and keeping things sane. (and single player games have Trophies which is online so... depending on how much you value pixelated trophies? those would be affected by "cheating in single player") Remember... this is Microsoft. The same company that had YEARS of bad press because bad third party drivers was one of the largest causes of windows crashes. So even if you never play online (I don't either) and only play single player games (FF and similar games here)? There's nothing worse than a shitty controller to ruin an experience. It's possible some otherwise perfect controllers might lose their spot if they get "banned" because they aren't "upgraded" with "security chips" (or whatever) and you might be affected but in aggregate its something a company the size of MS has to take into account. We'll see how it plays out but I'm not surprised (after reading comments about cheating stuff used by others in stuff like controllers).
- hsbauauvhabzb 3y ago
  You’re literally talking about creating a walled garden around what is currently an open ecosystem in which devices already purchased by people - including people with limited financial resources - will no longer work. All under the justification of ‘it solves cheating’. PC games have cheaters since forever, they’ve worked around that problem despite having less operating system and hardware control. Not to mention the fact that eventually any hardware based controls will be circumvented - this is a device which converts mechanical actions to digital, so there’s nothing to stop physical control modifications. The whole thing is either lazy, incompetent, or greedy, and won’t solve anything anyway.
  - OGWhales 3y ago
    > PC games have cheaters since forever, they’ve worked around that problem despite having less operating system and hardware control. Have they though? Cheaters are rampant in most games, meanwhile consoles have been highly successfully in preventing cheaters from using things like wallhacks and aimbotting.