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I'm still using a 2015 macbook for my personal daily driver. I have to plug it in regularly, but otherwise it works just fine for everything except video editin

I'm still using a 2015 macbook for my personal daily driver. I have to plug it in regularly, but otherwise it works just fine for everything except video editing.

latchkey 3y ago
Any reason for not upgrading?
- rewmie 3y ago
  > Any reason for not upgrading? Why is this sort of question always framed as if people have to provide a justification for not buying a new model, as if spending money on the new shiny without any reason is normal or desirable? We live in a day and age where hardware bought a decade ago still packs enough punch to run most of today's software without any hiccup. Why would anyone waste their cash to replace something that works without having any compelling reason?
  - latchkey 3y ago
    It is an honest question. For some background in my thinking, it is because today's announcement really focused on Intel users. My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there, like the OP, who haven't upgraded yet, hence the focus. As a result, I'm genuinely curious why this person hasn't upgraded. And for my own personal experience, the upgrade/switch from intel to m*, is night and day better ergonomics as a developer. It isn't just some shiny new toy or a waste in cash. For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. Or tour de france racers aren't using 30lbs Huffy bikes. TLDR: I don't give a f'ck if you don't happen to upgrade, that's your choice. I'm just curious about why.
    - paulryanrogers 3y ago
      This isn't Huffy bikes vs F1 racers. Unless your workload is heavily CPU bound. And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. We also live on a finite planet. And then energy savings for many desk jockeys is unlikely to be worth it for a few decades more, if one considers the literal tons of material and energy in manufacturing.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        That's totally not my experience at all.
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. This thread is literally about the decision to buy an M3-based MacBook Pro to replace M2/M1/Intel MacBook Pros. We're talking about hardware launched in the past 4/3/2/1 years. That's hardly "20yo" anything. Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move?
        paulryanrogers 3y ago
        > That's hardly "20yo" anything. My car comparison was trying to propose an alternative metaphor since comparing a top-of-the-line racing car to a child's bicycle struck me as absurdly out of proportion. Cars are generally maintained and kept in service longer than computers, so I picked 20y out of thin air. > Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move? My point is for most people there is no justification to move. Unless one has a device beyond repair, so old its software cannot be kept up-to-date, or the very rare need for the latest performance then stick with what you have.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      > My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there Apple has telemetry from macOS. So they knew exactly what percentage of users are still on Intel Macs. And it's low-hanging fruit to go after them then try and convince existing Windows users.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        Telemetry doesn't answer the important "why" question.
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. They also probably don't buy new wrenches every time new wrenches are released, if their current wrenches are completely sufficient and not holding them back in any way.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        > if their current wrenches are completely sufficient That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion.
        rewmie 3y ago
        > That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion. That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. In fact, it boggles the mind how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools", as if MacBook Pros packing an Intel core 7/M1/M2 suddenly became shitty laptops just because Apple released a new one.
        georgespencer 3y ago
        > That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. Again, what you mean to say is that _you_ cannot think of a reason that would make _you_ upgrade from a 4 year old MacBook to a new M3 one. > objectively Do you understand that what you say is literally, definitionally, subjective? It's one thing to make primitive and clumsy generalisations, but quite another to be confusing subjectivity and objectivity. > it boggles the mind Starting to believe there isn't a lot of mind to boggle here… > how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools" I haven't noticed anyone making this argument, but I know many people who upgrade their tools -- whether computers or otherwise -- to the latest and greatest whenever they can, because working faster and more efficiently is a concrete benefit, and it really would take an inestimable moron to, say, argue that late Intel-era MacBooks can do the same things that M-series MacBooks can.
    - andrewprock 3y ago
      The honest reason is that there is no practical reason to upgrade. The computer works, and despite the various FUD you might read, the attack surface for external attacks is quite small for personal computers. That said, if anyone would like to send me $4000, I will absolutely upgrade to a new 14" Macbook in a heartbeat.
    - coin 3y ago
      > better ergonomics The newer 16 inch MacBook Pros are half a pound heavier than the Intel one.
      - latchkey 3y ago
        I'm weird, I sit on the floor on a cushion with my back against a wall. I have a folding table over my lap that the laptop sits on. The keyboard actually works unlike my old Intel ones with the crappy butterfly. I hardly travel these days, but throwing it in a backpack isn't the end of the world. That said, I was actually thinking ergonomics in terms of performance of development. The thing is so fast that commands complete faster than I can deal with them. My IDE can keep up with me. I can run a ton of apps and it doesn't slow down or glitch. It doesn't get nearly as hot and there is rarely fan noise. The screen is higher quality. The speakers sound better. Magsafe is back! The button for my fingerprint works very well. No more stupid touch bar. Function keys! I could keep going...
    - VancouverMan 3y ago
      I've been holding off on upgrading some older Intel Mac minis I have while waiting for the memory situation to improve, but so far it hasn't. Ideally, I'd consolidate these older systems into one new Mac mini, or even a Mac Studio. I'd like at least 64 GB of memory, at a reasonable price. The latest Mac mini maxes out at only 32 GB of RAM, if I'm remembering it right. I think the latest low-end Mac Studio could be upgraded to 64 GB of memory, but the last time I priced it, this upgrade cost more than I'd been expecting. It also put the overall cost above what I'd prefer to pay. While I'd like to keep using a Mac, it's looking more and more like I'd be better off just building a PC, where I could likely get comparable enough processing performance, but far more memory (and storage) at a lower cost.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    I'm rocking a 2017 MacBook Air and it's great--really the only down side is that Apple stopped supporting it in macOS past Monterey. Almost all of my past and present Apple hardware has long outlasted software support, which is my biggest complaint with the company.
  - fastball 3y ago
    Because the productivity gains from upgrading can be quite large relative to the cost of upgrading, esp when you factor in the average salary in this community. I spend 8-10 hours on my Macbook every day. The amount of time I've saved / productivity I've gained by things just running faster and by being more mobile (much longer battery life) is huge compared to the $2000 price tag. Frugality is good but there are some things in life (depending on your personal circumstances) where it does in fact make sense to upgrade for clear benefits.
    - JohnBooty 3y ago
      Really depends on what you're doing. I spend 8-10 hours a day coding on my 2018 MBP (web apps - Postgres and Rails or Python) but almost none of that is really CPU-bound in my case. The meat of my work, the actual coding and iteration, is not limited by the aging CPU. The one thing that's painfully slow is rebuilding Docker images, but we don't do that too often. Less than once per week. I actually am upgrading soon, but it is not going to make an amazing difference for me in terms of productivity in my current work.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > Because the productivity gains from upgrading can be quite large relative to the cost of upgrading, esp when you factor in the average salary in this community. You see, this is simply not true. At all. By far. I have a cheap Intel laptop released 8-10 years ago. It shipped with 8GB of RAM and 4 cores. I bought it on a clearance sale for around $500. I use it still to this day to work on webapps, including launching half a dozen services with Docker Compose. The only time I experience any type of slowdown is when I launch IntelliJ. I also have new kit, including a M2 MacBook. There is absolutely nothing I can do with my M2 laptop that I cannot do well with my cheap old Intel laptop. Nothing. The only issue I have with my old laptop is battery life, and that's just because I don't bother replacing it. Please do point out a single concrete example of "productivity gains" that I would get by spending $2k on a new laptop.
      - karolist 3y ago
        I love responses like this, we should think hard first why NOT to upgrade, instead of doing reverse.
  - HumblyTossed 3y ago
    Because capitalism, that’s why. Capitalists have convinced people it is a moral imperative to continue to spend constantly.
    - astrange 3y ago
      The mode of production doesn't affect the fact that you have to do production. If nobody's continually demanding laptops from the laptop maker, they will stop making laptops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift
      - ndriscoll 3y ago
        If people don't need new laptops because their current ones already do everything they need, then reducing laptop production is good. Fewer resources and less pollution spent on things people don't need.
        astrange 3y ago
        Not if it meant there are none when they do need a replacement. Similarly, buying cheap used cars only works because someone else bought them new.
    - threeseed 3y ago
      I am sure that 16yo girl buying an iPhone is thoughtfully postulating about the juxtaposition of morality and capitalism. And not because it's shiny, fun and lets her socialise with her friends.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        > thoughtfully postulating about the juxtaposition of morality and capitalism I don't know how you managed to read the comment you responded to as suggesting that.
    - irusensei 3y ago
      > sir this is a wendy's
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    Because hardware vendors don't provide security updates forever, and they refuse to open-source enough of their code that other people can do it for them.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    Some people have experienced downsides you might want to know about. For example as you passed 2016-2019, not only did you have the butterfly keyboard mess but each generation reportedly got hotter and thus louder. My 2015 was quieter/cooler than my 2019. So if you’re happy it may turn out that even though the newer machine has better performance it feels like a downgrade for other reasons. (I don’t think that’s the case here)
    - karolist 3y ago
      2019 16" no longer used the butterfly keyboard, they have a physical Esc key and something Apple called "magic keyboard", really a scissor based mechanism that's really pleasant to type on and doesn't stop working with a tiny bit of dust under the cap. https://www.macrumors.com/guide/butterfly-keyboard-vs-scissor-keyboard/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/butterfly-keyboard-vs-scisso...
      - ksec 3y ago
        The new magic keyboard or new scissor keyboard has a key travel of 1mm, for me I wouldn't describe it as really pleasant.
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        2019 MBP mostly fixed the issues introduced in 2016. But lack of USB and HDMI was enough for me to pass on it. Also, the 2015 one is prettier.
        karolist 3y ago
        Ah I miss the lit up Apple logo.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Yeah I would definitely miss that, as well as the shape.
  - olliej 3y ago
    It would depend on workload. On my old intel MacBook, I was looking at an hour or so to build, and it could only complete one build on the battery if that. Testing took a similarly absurd amount of time. The M1 dropped both times by in the region of 30 minutes, could do multiple rounds on a single charge and didn't make a tonne of noise while doing so. The amount of time savings you get from the improved CPU perf is quantifiable, and you can assign a monetary amount to that time. Now if your use case is not performance (cpu, battery, etc) limited then of course there's no reason to upgrade, ever really, but that would apply to any laptop or pc not just Macs.
  - georgespencer 3y ago
    > Why is this sort of question always framed as […] OP didn't frame it any way at all as far as I can tell, but either way it seems like an entirely reasonable question to ask of someone on a forum which is largely comprised of computer and programming enthusiasts who has not upgraded their daily driver for nearly a decade. > as if spending money on the new shiny without any reason is normal or desirable? Every single person who spends their money on "the new shiny" has a reason. You may not find the reason edifying, but that's irrelevant to your stated argument. > Why would anyone waste their cash to replace something that works without having any compelling reason? As you were doubtless aware when you specifically constructed a straw man argument predicated on an entirely false premise and laden with your own subjective judgements about "waste" and things that "work" and "compelling" reasons, nobody does this. I suspect what you really mean is that you believe people upgrade their machines without what _you_ consider to be a good reason. You think people are too quick to upgrade when their machine isn't the very latest, or when it's got a dent, or when it's slowing down a little. If you'd written what you really believe -- that people should not upgrade as rapidly as they do -- you'd probably have pulled on the thread for a further 0.02s and realised that everyone has different values and priorities, and you likely "waste money" in others' eyes across multiple line items of your annual budget. So it's terrific luck, really, that the internet's various competing interpretations of a "compelling reason" can't stop you from spending your money however you'd like.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > (..) it seems like an entirely reasonable question to ask of someone on a forum which is largely comprised of computer and programming enthusiasts who has not upgraded their daily driver for nearly a decade. Are professionals expected to mindlessly throw money around at the new shiny without having absolutely no compelling reason to do so? I think my post was rather straight-forward: people buy things only when they feel there is a clear upside to it. If you made that purchase 2 or 3 or 4 years ago, you need a very good reason to just throw it away and buy a new replacement. You need to at least make a valid case for it, otherwise you are just wasting your hard-earned money for nothing at all. > Every single person who spends their money on "the new shiny" has a reason. Why was OP framing that question on whether no reason was needed then, and instead people had to justify why weren't they wasting their money on the new shiny? Why is being new and shiny such a strong rationale that the onus of not buying is placed on not buying? These are simple questions. In fact, all it would take is provide a single compelling reason why it would be a good idea to waste money on a M3 Macbook Pro when you already own a M2/M1 Macbook Pro, or even a late 2010s Macbook Pro. Hell, why on earth would you even waste money on a M3 Macbook Pro if you already have a M2 Macbook Air? If you cannot answer this question, why would it be anything than absolutely foolish to pretend that people should justify not buying a M3?
  - JCharante 3y ago
    They mentioned their coworker and most companies have upgrade policies. Just fill in a form every x years and you get a shiny new laptop (and depending on where you work, you’ll get to keep your old one as a gift)
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > They mentioned their coworker and most companies have upgrade policies. Upgrade policies aren't driven by new requirements, or performance improvements. Some companies have mandatory hardware replacement policies which mostly serve to allow their tech support staff to standardized on a small number of devices. Getting a M3 MacBook Pro replacement just because your employer doesn't want to maintain an Intel MacBook Pro is hardly indicative that a M3 is worth spending money on, let alone replace a M2 or even M1 MacBook Pro.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  Fiscal prudence?
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    To me, "personal daily driver" sounds like where you'd do online banking. A MacBook from 2015 can't run any OS newer than Big Sur, which is EOL right about now. And it sounds really imprudent to do online banking from an insecure device.
    - tom_ 3y ago
      My 2015 MBP is supported in macOS Monterey.
      - josephcsible 3y ago
        The "Pro" makes a difference there. The Air and Pro from 2015 both got Monterey, but the regular MacBook from the same year didn't.
    - ac29 3y ago
      It should still be able to run an up to date web browser though, right? If one is that concerned about someone exploiting an OS level security flaw to exfiltrate their online banking credentials (wildly unlikely), they should just be doing that stuff in a VM or similarly isolated environment anyways.
      - josephcsible 3y ago
        > It should still be able to run an up to date web browser though, right? For a while, yes, but the browser being up-to-date doesn't make an EOL OS safe to expose to the Internet. > If one is that concerned about someone exploiting an OS level security flaw to exfiltrate their online banking credentials (wildly unlikely), they should just be doing that stuff in a VM or similarly isolated environment anyways. Just doing sensitive stuff in a VM isn't good protection at all, since a malicious host can trivially compromise the guest.
- kybernetyk 3y ago
  >it works just fine for everything except video editing would be my guess
- tpmx 3y ago
  x86-64 docker containers? https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/384 https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/384 is still open. :(
  - edp 3y ago
    I don't know exactly why this bug would still be open, but you can use x86-64 images on an ARM64 Mac : https://docs.docker.com/desktop/release-notes/#4250 https://docs.docker.com/desktop/release-notes/#4250 I have been using it for a few months (in beta) and it works great !
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - tpmx 3y ago
      Ah, just out of beta a few days ago. I'll try it out!
- ksec 3y ago
  Not OP, but The new Magic Keyboard ( or Scissor 2.0 ) just doesn't suites me. 1.0mm Key travel is so so much worse than the 1.3/1.5mm old scissors on my 2015 MBP. I actually dont need the seamless, ultra large trackpad. Which gets false positive from time to time. This has never been the case on a sane trackpad size. My Workload is memory limited, and rarely CPU limited. Upgrading wouldn't bring a lot of benefits unless I have more memory, and Memory upgrade is expensive. Did I mention keyboard or trackpad? I just had a battery swap on this MBP earlier this year, hopefully it will last another 4 - 5 years or whenever I cant update Safari. Although I guess I could still use Firefox.
MBCook 3y ago
I thought the same, but ended up upgrading to an M1 Air due to a hardware failure. Sure it feels 100x faster. But more than that it’s DEAD SILENT (no fan in the machine!) and completely cool. The temperature/noise, if I had experienced it myself first, would have probably gotten me to upgrade. I use a 2019 Intel MBP at work. It’s much faster than my old 2015 too, but with the additional heat and noise I didn’t really want one. I would have taken the noise/heat of the M1 + 2018 or 2019 performance. Instead I got heat/noise of the M1 and far better performance, for a fraction of what my 2015 cost (unadjusted) new. Amazing upgrade.
- pantulis 3y ago
  I got an M2 Pro Mini a couple of weeks ago to replace my 2018 i7 MBP and while it is obviously snappier and you feel it's more powerful without running benchmarks the main difference is that: it is silent. I only got it warm to the touch rendering video with Da Vinci, when CPU temp usage quickly went to 75ºC.
wildrhythms 3y ago
Are you able to replace the battery on those? I have done battery replacements on 2017 model Macbook Airs to great success. I get the batteries from OWC.

I'm still using a 2015 macbook for my personal daily driver. I have to plug it in regularly, but otherwise it works just fine for everything except video editing.

latchkey 3y ago

Any reason for not upgrading?

rewmie 3y ago
> Any reason for not upgrading? Why is this sort of question always framed as if people have to provide a justification for not buying a new model, as if spending money on the new shiny without any reason is normal or desirable? We live in a day and age where hardware bought a decade ago still packs enough punch to run most of today's software without any hiccup. Why would anyone waste their cash to replace something that works without having any compelling reason?
- latchkey 3y ago
  It is an honest question. For some background in my thinking, it is because today's announcement really focused on Intel users. My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there, like the OP, who haven't upgraded yet, hence the focus. As a result, I'm genuinely curious why this person hasn't upgraded. And for my own personal experience, the upgrade/switch from intel to m*, is night and day better ergonomics as a developer. It isn't just some shiny new toy or a waste in cash. For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. Or tour de france racers aren't using 30lbs Huffy bikes. TLDR: I don't give a f'ck if you don't happen to upgrade, that's your choice. I'm just curious about why.
  - paulryanrogers 3y ago
    This isn't Huffy bikes vs F1 racers. Unless your workload is heavily CPU bound. And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. We also live on a finite planet. And then energy savings for many desk jockeys is unlikely to be worth it for a few decades more, if one considers the literal tons of material and energy in manufacturing.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      That's totally not my experience at all.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > And even then it's probably more like a 20yo F1 car vs a new one. This thread is literally about the decision to buy an M3-based MacBook Pro to replace M2/M1/Intel MacBook Pros. We're talking about hardware launched in the past 4/3/2/1 years. That's hardly "20yo" anything. Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move?
      - paulryanrogers 3y ago
        > That's hardly "20yo" anything. My car comparison was trying to propose an alternative metaphor since comparing a top-of-the-line racing car to a child's bicycle struck me as absurdly out of proportion. Cars are generally maintained and kept in service longer than computers, so I picked 20y out of thin air. > Also, you failed to provide any concrete, objective reason to buy a M3. None at all. Is it that hard to put together any argument to justify the move? My point is for most people there is no justification to move. Unless one has a device beyond repair, so old its software cannot be kept up-to-date, or the very rare need for the latest performance then stick with what you have.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    > My semi-educated guess is that Apple did a whole bunch of user studies and realized there are a lot of people out there Apple has telemetry from macOS. So they knew exactly what percentage of users are still on Intel Macs. And it's low-hanging fruit to go after them then try and convince existing Windows users.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      Telemetry doesn't answer the important "why" question.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    For the same reason professional mechanics in F1 don't use shitty tools to work on their cars. They also probably don't buy new wrenches every time new wrenches are released, if their current wrenches are completely sufficient and not holding them back in any way.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      > if their current wrenches are completely sufficient That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion.
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > That's a fantastically entirely subjective opinion. That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. In fact, it boggles the mind how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools", as if MacBook Pros packing an Intel core 7/M1/M2 suddenly became shitty laptops just because Apple released a new one.
        georgespencer 3y ago
        > That's the point: objectively, there is absolutely no concrete reason that justifies replacing a MacBook bought in the past 3 or 4 years with the M3 ones. None at all. Again, what you mean to say is that _you_ cannot think of a reason that would make _you_ upgrade from a 4 year old MacBook to a new M3 one. > objectively Do you understand that what you say is literally, definitionally, subjective? It's one thing to make primitive and clumsy generalisations, but quite another to be confusing subjectivity and objectivity. > it boggles the mind Starting to believe there isn't a lot of mind to boggle here… > how anyone could justify replacing any MacBook pro with a M3 one by claiming "pros don't use shitty tools" I haven't noticed anyone making this argument, but I know many people who upgrade their tools -- whether computers or otherwise -- to the latest and greatest whenever they can, because working faster and more efficiently is a concrete benefit, and it really would take an inestimable moron to, say, argue that late Intel-era MacBooks can do the same things that M-series MacBooks can.
  - andrewprock 3y ago
    The honest reason is that there is no practical reason to upgrade. The computer works, and despite the various FUD you might read, the attack surface for external attacks is quite small for personal computers. That said, if anyone would like to send me $4000, I will absolutely upgrade to a new 14" Macbook in a heartbeat.
  - coin 3y ago
    > better ergonomics The newer 16 inch MacBook Pros are half a pound heavier than the Intel one.
    - latchkey 3y ago
      I'm weird, I sit on the floor on a cushion with my back against a wall. I have a folding table over my lap that the laptop sits on. The keyboard actually works unlike my old Intel ones with the crappy butterfly. I hardly travel these days, but throwing it in a backpack isn't the end of the world. That said, I was actually thinking ergonomics in terms of performance of development. The thing is so fast that commands complete faster than I can deal with them. My IDE can keep up with me. I can run a ton of apps and it doesn't slow down or glitch. It doesn't get nearly as hot and there is rarely fan noise. The screen is higher quality. The speakers sound better. Magsafe is back! The button for my fingerprint works very well. No more stupid touch bar. Function keys! I could keep going...
  - VancouverMan 3y ago
    I've been holding off on upgrading some older Intel Mac minis I have while waiting for the memory situation to improve, but so far it hasn't. Ideally, I'd consolidate these older systems into one new Mac mini, or even a Mac Studio. I'd like at least 64 GB of memory, at a reasonable price. The latest Mac mini maxes out at only 32 GB of RAM, if I'm remembering it right. I think the latest low-end Mac Studio could be upgraded to 64 GB of memory, but the last time I priced it, this upgrade cost more than I'd been expecting. It also put the overall cost above what I'd prefer to pay. While I'd like to keep using a Mac, it's looking more and more like I'd be better off just building a PC, where I could likely get comparable enough processing performance, but far more memory (and storage) at a lower cost.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  I'm rocking a 2017 MacBook Air and it's great--really the only down side is that Apple stopped supporting it in macOS past Monterey. Almost all of my past and present Apple hardware has long outlasted software support, which is my biggest complaint with the company.
- fastball 3y ago
  Because the productivity gains from upgrading can be quite large relative to the cost of upgrading, esp when you factor in the average salary in this community. I spend 8-10 hours on my Macbook every day. The amount of time I've saved / productivity I've gained by things just running faster and by being more mobile (much longer battery life) is huge compared to the $2000 price tag. Frugality is good but there are some things in life (depending on your personal circumstances) where it does in fact make sense to upgrade for clear benefits.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Really depends on what you're doing. I spend 8-10 hours a day coding on my 2018 MBP (web apps - Postgres and Rails or Python) but almost none of that is really CPU-bound in my case. The meat of my work, the actual coding and iteration, is not limited by the aging CPU. The one thing that's painfully slow is rebuilding Docker images, but we don't do that too often. Less than once per week. I actually am upgrading soon, but it is not going to make an amazing difference for me in terms of productivity in my current work.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > Because the productivity gains from upgrading can be quite large relative to the cost of upgrading, esp when you factor in the average salary in this community. You see, this is simply not true. At all. By far. I have a cheap Intel laptop released 8-10 years ago. It shipped with 8GB of RAM and 4 cores. I bought it on a clearance sale for around $500. I use it still to this day to work on webapps, including launching half a dozen services with Docker Compose. The only time I experience any type of slowdown is when I launch IntelliJ. I also have new kit, including a M2 MacBook. There is absolutely nothing I can do with my M2 laptop that I cannot do well with my cheap old Intel laptop. Nothing. The only issue I have with my old laptop is battery life, and that's just because I don't bother replacing it. Please do point out a single concrete example of "productivity gains" that I would get by spending $2k on a new laptop.
    - karolist 3y ago
      I love responses like this, we should think hard first why NOT to upgrade, instead of doing reverse.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago
  Because capitalism, that’s why. Capitalists have convinced people it is a moral imperative to continue to spend constantly.
  - astrange 3y ago
    The mode of production doesn't affect the fact that you have to do production. If nobody's continually demanding laptops from the laptop maker, they will stop making laptops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_thrift
    - ndriscoll 3y ago
      If people don't need new laptops because their current ones already do everything they need, then reducing laptop production is good. Fewer resources and less pollution spent on things people don't need.
      - astrange 3y ago
        Not if it meant there are none when they do need a replacement. Similarly, buying cheap used cars only works because someone else bought them new.
  - threeseed 3y ago
    I am sure that 16yo girl buying an iPhone is thoughtfully postulating about the juxtaposition of morality and capitalism. And not because it's shiny, fun and lets her socialise with her friends.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > thoughtfully postulating about the juxtaposition of morality and capitalism I don't know how you managed to read the comment you responded to as suggesting that.
  - irusensei 3y ago
    > sir this is a wendy's
- josephcsible 3y ago
  Because hardware vendors don't provide security updates forever, and they refuse to open-source enough of their code that other people can do it for them.
- MBCook 3y ago
  Some people have experienced downsides you might want to know about. For example as you passed 2016-2019, not only did you have the butterfly keyboard mess but each generation reportedly got hotter and thus louder. My 2015 was quieter/cooler than my 2019. So if you’re happy it may turn out that even though the newer machine has better performance it feels like a downgrade for other reasons. (I don’t think that’s the case here)
  - karolist 3y ago
    2019 16" no longer used the butterfly keyboard, they have a physical Esc key and something Apple called "magic keyboard", really a scissor based mechanism that's really pleasant to type on and doesn't stop working with a tiny bit of dust under the cap. https://www.macrumors.com/guide/butterfly-keyboard-vs-scissor-keyboard/ https://www.macrumors.com/guide/butterfly-keyboard-vs-scisso...
    - ksec 3y ago
      The new magic keyboard or new scissor keyboard has a key travel of 1mm, for me I wouldn't describe it as really pleasant.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      2019 MBP mostly fixed the issues introduced in 2016. But lack of USB and HDMI was enough for me to pass on it. Also, the 2015 one is prettier.
      - karolist 3y ago
        Ah I miss the lit up Apple logo.
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Yeah I would definitely miss that, as well as the shape.
- olliej 3y ago
  It would depend on workload. On my old intel MacBook, I was looking at an hour or so to build, and it could only complete one build on the battery if that. Testing took a similarly absurd amount of time. The M1 dropped both times by in the region of 30 minutes, could do multiple rounds on a single charge and didn't make a tonne of noise while doing so. The amount of time savings you get from the improved CPU perf is quantifiable, and you can assign a monetary amount to that time. Now if your use case is not performance (cpu, battery, etc) limited then of course there's no reason to upgrade, ever really, but that would apply to any laptop or pc not just Macs.
- georgespencer 3y ago
  > Why is this sort of question always framed as […] OP didn't frame it any way at all as far as I can tell, but either way it seems like an entirely reasonable question to ask of someone on a forum which is largely comprised of computer and programming enthusiasts who has not upgraded their daily driver for nearly a decade. > as if spending money on the new shiny without any reason is normal or desirable? Every single person who spends their money on "the new shiny" has a reason. You may not find the reason edifying, but that's irrelevant to your stated argument. > Why would anyone waste their cash to replace something that works without having any compelling reason? As you were doubtless aware when you specifically constructed a straw man argument predicated on an entirely false premise and laden with your own subjective judgements about "waste" and things that "work" and "compelling" reasons, nobody does this. I suspect what you really mean is that you believe people upgrade their machines without what _you_ consider to be a good reason. You think people are too quick to upgrade when their machine isn't the very latest, or when it's got a dent, or when it's slowing down a little. If you'd written what you really believe -- that people should not upgrade as rapidly as they do -- you'd probably have pulled on the thread for a further 0.02s and realised that everyone has different values and priorities, and you likely "waste money" in others' eyes across multiple line items of your annual budget. So it's terrific luck, really, that the internet's various competing interpretations of a "compelling reason" can't stop you from spending your money however you'd like.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > (..) it seems like an entirely reasonable question to ask of someone on a forum which is largely comprised of computer and programming enthusiasts who has not upgraded their daily driver for nearly a decade. Are professionals expected to mindlessly throw money around at the new shiny without having absolutely no compelling reason to do so? I think my post was rather straight-forward: people buy things only when they feel there is a clear upside to it. If you made that purchase 2 or 3 or 4 years ago, you need a very good reason to just throw it away and buy a new replacement. You need to at least make a valid case for it, otherwise you are just wasting your hard-earned money for nothing at all. > Every single person who spends their money on "the new shiny" has a reason. Why was OP framing that question on whether no reason was needed then, and instead people had to justify why weren't they wasting their money on the new shiny? Why is being new and shiny such a strong rationale that the onus of not buying is placed on not buying? These are simple questions. In fact, all it would take is provide a single compelling reason why it would be a good idea to waste money on a M3 Macbook Pro when you already own a M2/M1 Macbook Pro, or even a late 2010s Macbook Pro. Hell, why on earth would you even waste money on a M3 Macbook Pro if you already have a M2 Macbook Air? If you cannot answer this question, why would it be anything than absolutely foolish to pretend that people should justify not buying a M3?
- JCharante 3y ago
  They mentioned their coworker and most companies have upgrade policies. Just fill in a form every x years and you get a shiny new laptop (and depending on where you work, you’ll get to keep your old one as a gift)
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > They mentioned their coworker and most companies have upgrade policies. Upgrade policies aren't driven by new requirements, or performance improvements. Some companies have mandatory hardware replacement policies which mostly serve to allow their tech support staff to standardized on a small number of devices. Getting a M3 MacBook Pro replacement just because your employer doesn't want to maintain an Intel MacBook Pro is hardly indicative that a M3 is worth spending money on, let alone replace a M2 or even M1 MacBook Pro.
rokkitmensch 3y ago
Fiscal prudence?
- josephcsible 3y ago
  To me, "personal daily driver" sounds like where you'd do online banking. A MacBook from 2015 can't run any OS newer than Big Sur, which is EOL right about now. And it sounds really imprudent to do online banking from an insecure device.
  - tom_ 3y ago
    My 2015 MBP is supported in macOS Monterey.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      The "Pro" makes a difference there. The Air and Pro from 2015 both got Monterey, but the regular MacBook from the same year didn't.
  - ac29 3y ago
    It should still be able to run an up to date web browser though, right? If one is that concerned about someone exploiting an OS level security flaw to exfiltrate their online banking credentials (wildly unlikely), they should just be doing that stuff in a VM or similarly isolated environment anyways.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      > It should still be able to run an up to date web browser though, right? For a while, yes, but the browser being up-to-date doesn't make an EOL OS safe to expose to the Internet. > If one is that concerned about someone exploiting an OS level security flaw to exfiltrate their online banking credentials (wildly unlikely), they should just be doing that stuff in a VM or similarly isolated environment anyways. Just doing sensitive stuff in a VM isn't good protection at all, since a malicious host can trivially compromise the guest.
kybernetyk 3y ago
>it works just fine for everything except video editing would be my guess
tpmx 3y ago
x86-64 docker containers? https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/384 https://github.com/docker/roadmap/issues/384 is still open. :(
- edp 3y ago
  I don't know exactly why this bug would still be open, but you can use x86-64 images on an ARM64 Mac : https://docs.docker.com/desktop/release-notes/#4250 https://docs.docker.com/desktop/release-notes/#4250 I have been using it for a few months (in beta) and it works great !
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - tpmx 3y ago
    Ah, just out of beta a few days ago. I'll try it out!
ksec 3y ago
Not OP, but The new Magic Keyboard ( or Scissor 2.0 ) just doesn't suites me. 1.0mm Key travel is so so much worse than the 1.3/1.5mm old scissors on my 2015 MBP. I actually dont need the seamless, ultra large trackpad. Which gets false positive from time to time. This has never been the case on a sane trackpad size. My Workload is memory limited, and rarely CPU limited. Upgrading wouldn't bring a lot of benefits unless I have more memory, and Memory upgrade is expensive. Did I mention keyboard or trackpad? I just had a battery swap on this MBP earlier this year, hopefully it will last another 4 - 5 years or whenever I cant update Safari. Although I guess I could still use Firefox.

MBCook 3y ago

I thought the same, but ended up upgrading to an M1 Air due to a hardware failure. Sure it feels 100x faster. But more than that it’s DEAD SILENT (no fan in the machine!) and completely cool. The temperature/noise, if I had experienced it myself first, would have probably gotten me to upgrade. I use a 2019 Intel MBP at work. It’s much faster than my old 2015 too, but with the additional heat and noise I didn’t really want one. I would have taken the noise/heat of the M1 + 2018 or 2019 performance. Instead I got heat/noise of the M1 and far better performance, for a fraction of what my 2015 cost (unadjusted) new. Amazing upgrade.

pantulis 3y ago
I got an M2 Pro Mini a couple of weeks ago to replace my 2018 i7 MBP and while it is obviously snappier and you feel it's more powerful without running benchmarks the main difference is that: it is silent. I only got it warm to the touch rendering video with Da Vinci, when CPU temp usage quickly went to 75ºC.

wildrhythms 3y ago

Are you able to replace the battery on those? I have done battery replacements on 2017 model Macbook Airs to great success. I get the batteries from OWC.