10 ms·

US immigration enforcement used AI-powered tool to scan posts derogatory to US

120 points by wahnfrieden 3y ago

decremental 3y ago
[dead]
boomboomsubban 3y ago
There's all sorts of stuff wrong with this, but why is an agent giving them a "hot or not" rating? Surely that can't be the only thing necessary to flag them based on their social media posts. As using here as an example, I down vote things I meant to upvote or vice versa constantly. Imagine being denied a visa based on that.
- ShamelessC 3y ago
  Not sure if you're aware US immigration is sort of a shit show.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    I'm no fan of US immigration but even they must fear "we let in this villain as we fat fingered thumbs up. Our bad."
    - estebank 3y ago
      Which makes it more likely that whatever prevalence of false positives are ignored as long as false negatives are kept low. Meaning that people without recourse are affected disproportionally by something they have no control over.
- empath-nirvana 3y ago
  > Imagine being denied a visa based on that. The position of the US is that everyone coming to the US is intending to move here permanently, and any sort of visitation visa will be _denied by default_ from many countries unless you can prove otherwise, and the hoops they make you go through can be ridiculous. I talked to someone from Colombia who waited years for a visa interview, spent weeks preparing for it and got denied 5 minutes into the call because they didn't have enough money in the bank at home. No appeal. All they wanted to do is visit their brother for a week. They hadn't seen him for years.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    Yeah, that's terrible. Now imagine they checked the bank, found they had "enough" money, then denied them entry because they accidentally clicked the wrong button. The policy is often bullshit, but following it and still being denied would be infuriating.
    - potatolicious 3y ago
      And that's one of the major concerns with tools like these. Besides the conceptual problems of spying on people's musings, when's the last time a heavily marketed "AI" tool turned out to be at all accurate? It's one thing for the government to spy on your social media postings and decide you're a risk to the country, it's a whole 'nother thing for that to be an error because you posted about that "killer" concert or how a movie is "the bomb". Given what we know of government contractors and their inflated claims about AI my bet is that this tool - however justifiable or not in its use - doesn't even actually work as advertised.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
> "The government should not be using algorithms to scrutinize our social media posts and decide which of us is 'risky.' This article isn't super clear about what agencies are using this for what purposes, beyond looking at visa applicants, but visa applicants aren't US citizens and aren't in the US, so they don't have the same set of rights that citizens do, nor should they.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Are you aware that citizens within 100 miles of borders including Great Lakes are ok for border patrol to spy on, have their vehicles searched without warrant, etc? That area covers over 65% of the total US population btw
- blululu 3y ago
  That’s because that information is not available. The ACLU is working on finding that. The law applies to every one equally on US soil. Visa applicants can often be located in the US so they would have standing in a US court.
  - lsmeducation 3y ago
    Does this even have to be a citizenship issue? The DHS is providing evidence that could alter the judgement of many of these people's cases. Do you have to be American to request that evidence be vetted? If anything, one wrong algo and you can re-open or close buckets of cases at once.
  - gene91 3y ago
    > Visa applicants can often be located in the US Since 9/11, one cannot apply for a US visa if they’re in US. In the context of US immigration, “visa” grants entry, “status” grants stay. If you’re in US, and need to change “status” to a different category (business/leisure, student, etc), you have two primary choices: (1) apply for “change of status” in US, or (2) leave US, apply for a new “visa” in the new category, and enter US using that new “visa”.
    - 3y ago
blululu 3y ago
Before we fall for the flame bait, it is unclear what is happening from the article. The ACLU is suing DHS to get an explanation of how the DHS is using a service that collects and analyzes social media data on Visa applicants. The company sold a different product to enforce the law over visa terms using social media. They are now selling a different product but it is not public what it does or how it is used. The ACLU wants answers. That is all.
motohagiography 3y ago
There's got to be some game theoretic threshold where a party switches from optimizing to solve a problem to just attacking their critics instead. Something about the incentives has tipped for ostensibly democratic governments where they are spending their efforts demolishing their nations and societies and attacking their critics.
Eumenes 3y ago
Does this apply to illegal aliens? If so, I don't really see a problem with this, esp. in the wake of the Israel/Gaza conflict. Look at the country of origin from recent southern border crossing. Its all over the place. Somehow people from Africa, Asia, the Middle East, are getting to Mexico, and crossing the border. If I was trying to migrate to a different country, as an American, I'd fully suspect that country to do everything in its power to vet me.
- lawlessone 3y ago
  >Does this apply to illegal aliens? How could it? Undocumented people are undocumented. The harder / longer the process the more likely people are just find ways to forgo engaging with it. Especially if it looks like positive outcome is unlikely. Would need to see a citation on the rest of you've said as it sounds a little like right wing talking point. Seems a bit rich the descendants of many migrants are pulling up the ladder.
  - salamanderss 3y ago
    Migrants always pull up the ladder, they're no different than you and I. Look at South Africa, visas are a total nightmare meanwhile almost everybody there are from tribes that migrated in recent history.
- estebank 3y ago
  As an american, it is unlikely (if understandable) that you know how your immigration system works neither in paper or in practice. As an american who has never lived abroad, you most definitely don't know how other immigration systems work. Your understanding of immigration has been molded by the media you consume, both news of whatever slant and movies.
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    False. Led startups and teams, involved in hiring and helping to process h1b/e3/f1/tn visas. Held a blue card in Germany. What's your experience?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
shtopointo 3y ago
What am I missing here? Isn't it a good idea to vet people before you let them enter your country? Why would you let in someone that is hostile to your country? Especially these days with so many individuals being driven by nefarious ideologies?
- justrealist 3y ago
  Yeah like, there is a broad class of immigrant that endlessly complains about how awful the US is an awful force in the world, and then immigrates here for a high-paying job (and continues complaining). I don't want them! Why should we be required to ignore their personal feelings? There's a long list of people who want into the US. We should prioritize the people who actually like the US, this doesn't feel controversial.
  - haswell 3y ago
    Delegating these kinds of decisions to a faceless AI is the thing that is controversial. The ability to systematically analyze a person's life and communications and then derive a "desirability" score is the thing that's controversial. Similar to the subject of client-side scanning for abusive material, the issue is not that anyone supports the abuse. The issues all stem from the implications of the underlying technology and embracing "the ends justify the means".
    - shtopointo 3y ago
      Would you be in favor of vetting some or all publicly available information before letting someone into a country? If the answer is no, then you might be missing a lot of people that have nefarious intent, where you could have prevented that by looking at their social media posts. If the answer is yes, then you have to delegate to something / someone. Maybe an AI might be better than a human at spotting warning signs.
      - haswell 3y ago
        I’m not saying that there should be no vetting whatsoever. But there’s a vast possibility space between no vetting and the systematic analysis of all public information about a person. Especially when social media - a place where people are rarely their authentic selves - is a primary source. There is far more stupid stuff being said on social media than dangerous stuff. But the two can be nearly indistinguishable without appropriate context. People will be denied entry for being spicy far more than for legitimate reasons I’d imagine. Not to mention that there is a significant amount of public information that should not be public in the first place. Its availability is not a justification for its use in this way. By > If the answer is no, then you might be missing a lot of people that have nefarious intent, where you could have prevented that by looking at their social media posts. I can’t get on board with this framing. It feels similar to the arguments for more cameras in public places. Put a camera on every corner. They’re public after all. But once you start feeding those cameras into a central AI that can track your every move, they’re no longer just cameras, and the very idea of what it means to be in public no longer means the same thing that it did for most of human civilization. Again, I’m not saying they should look at anything. But I think it’s also necessary to raise red flags when emerging tech will be used in increasingly invasive ways by governments.
Trias11 3y ago
[flagged]
- plagiarist 3y ago
  You have some cognitive biases you may want to work on.
  - Trias11 3y ago
    You may want to change your nick for your advice to be taken seriously
ericfrazier 3y ago
Don't be a hypocrite and talk smack and then try to move to U.S.
andy_ppp 3y ago
I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords.
ada1981 3y ago
I can see why we’d want to see what people have posted about the US on social media before letting them. Problem is that it has chilling effects on folks who wouldn’t cause harm and would just be critical of us business or policy or culture.
maxdo 3y ago
I kind of some people are lost in their ultra liberal views, and anti big brother views. I consider myself moderately liberal. If you have an non citizen coming to US , and this person is hostile to US, why this person allowed to come here. It's a free world, if you don't like democracy, go to the other part of non-free world. Not letting hostile people in, it's a corner stone of any national security. It has nothing to do with liberalism. They are simply doing their job. And yes, you can find lots ways how US is not a free country. But at least US declare this as an idea. There are countries, Iran , Russia , China have other priorities.
- bondolo 3y ago
  What degree of criticism crosses the threshold of "hostile"? For some on the conservative side any criticism or comparison of the US by Americans or worse yet by foreigners unacceptable; the "love it or leave it" crowd. There have been repeated incidents of various politicians, journalists and authors being denied entry for little more (and sometimes less) than saying that the US "kinda sucks". Obviously there's little good reason to admit someone who wants to overthrow the government (there are already enough of those locally) but literally anyone who says that the US is less than perfect? I certainly don't want this decision to be in the hands of an unaccountable and capricious ICE officers. I've personally experienced just a taste of how petty they can be and have little reason to doubt that they are routinely spiteful assholes.
d3w4s9 3y ago
Ever since the Trump administration started requiring people to provide their social media accounts in visa applications, I stopped using all of them. Not going to do something that's going to potentially negatively impact my life. Social media companies don't have a good track record themselves anyway.
john-radio 3y ago
The OP link is blogspam wrapping around reporting from the excellent 404 Media, who just recently struck out on their own as a publication and deserve attention and support: https://www.404media.co/inside-ices-database-derogatory-information-giant-oak-gost/ https://www.404media.co/inside-ices-database-derogatory-info...
- dang 3y ago
  We've changed the URL from https://www.techspot.com/news/100642-ice-used-ai-powered-tool-scan-social-media.html https://www.techspot.com/news/100642-ice-used-ai-powered-too.... Thanks.
soulofmischief 3y ago
As a US citizen, I will be as derogatory to the US government as I wish. And I expect the same right for any citizen of the world, and any would-be citizen of the US. Why else would they be applying for US citizenship if not to secure the right to free speech?
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  They are probably looking for markers of terrorism and criminal activity. One thing that I learned from my work with the SPLC was that extremists self-snitch on social media all the time. Transparency in law enforcement is always a good thing though so hopefully we'll learn more from the lawsuit.
  - soulofmischief 3y ago
    These systems typically have major issues with bias and mislabeled training data [0], and I have a feeling ICE has very lax heuristics for what makes a given post extremist or indicative of criminal activity. My own views are far from moderate in many respects, and I don't think ICE would like them very much. [0] https://www.surgehq.ai//blog/30-percent-of-googles-reddit-emotions-dataset-is-mislabeled https://www.surgehq.ai//blog/30-percent-of-googles-reddit-em...
garlic_yogurt 3y ago
Dang the comments are crazy. So i cant post about the insane triggerhappy police force? What about the outrageous offence budget? The amount of homeless (absolutely towering over the amount that my shithole 3rd world homecountry has) especially in contrast to the offence budget? The opioid crisis? Housing becoming not affordable for so many? Etc etc so many other things? Do I have to allign with the status quo completely? This may have been what happened to me as I didnt get an H1B 3 years in a row so I had to leave and the company i worked for had to get me an L1 visa. Im not an avid social media poster or anyrhing either, but I have been critical of the US online. Not getting H1B as someone with an MS diploma felt like it was personal (and not a "lottery" that the visa is claimed to be) Inb4, then why come? Well, before I came I never knew any of this stuff, as i was a foreigner in high school. Came over for college, stayed for a position at a FAANG corp. "The american dream"
sudosysgen 3y ago
I've known a grad student that was admitted to a very prestigious US university, and came from a country which was unjustly invaded by the US. When he was about to come, his visa was denied/indefinitely delayed, and they eventually admitted that the reason was that they made derogatory posts on social media as a result of that invasion.
jessenaser 3y ago
So you’re a journalist. You criticize the French government in your investigative reporting. You take a visit to France again next time. They prohibit your entry based on your articles. All else equal you otherwise would have been granted entry. === The United States’ Constitution has a first amendment that does not discern between citizen or not. It applies to the laws that can be made. Same goes for the other bill of rights. Obviously a non citizen should not have the right to vote, but a non citizen still should have and they do have the right of freedom of speech or the right to a speedy trial… Otherwise the laws you made are not impartial.
- salamanderss 3y ago
  Part of the first amendment, specifically assembly and petitioning grievances is explicitly qualified to the 'people'. Aliens are not generally considered the 'people' in the US, as evidenced by them not being allowed arms which are the right of (even individual per Heller) people.
  - jessenaser 3y ago
    Incorrect. When a part of the constitution wants to describe the requirement of citizen or not, it will specifically say. "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." "No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen."
    - salamanderss 3y ago
      So aliens have the right to bear arms in the US?
      - 3y ago
fennecbutt 3y ago
Which is total BS because as someone who moved to the UK, I bitch about the UK all the time. Sure, I respect the fact that I've been allowed to live and work here, but what sort of democracy doesn't allow critical thoughts of a government, country, culture etc? There's a huge difference between if I said something like "The UK state should be destroyed, all British citizens are heathens" as opposed to what I usually say which is more "there's a huge class and wealth gap problem in the UK", "both sides of the gov here are only interested in filling their own pockets with money", "why does my tier 5 visa years not count towards ILR like my tier 2 does, why is UK so anti immigration when their entire services economy replies upon it?", "British people are resistant to change and cling onto old ideas", "British politeness is actually a myth, rudeness is just expressed differently here, the politeness is often insincere". All things that are critical of the UK but valid viewpoints that others may disagree with. I couldn't imagine not being able to be freely critical of the place you live. What's the point in voting, otherwise?

120 points by wahnfrieden 3y ago

[dead]

There's all sorts of stuff wrong with this, but why is an agent giving them a "hot or not" rating? Surely that can't be the only thing necessary to flag them based on their social media posts. As using here as an example, I down vote things I meant to upvote or vice versa constantly. Imagine being denied a visa based on that.

ShamelessC 3y ago
Not sure if you're aware US immigration is sort of a shit show.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  I'm no fan of US immigration but even they must fear "we let in this villain as we fat fingered thumbs up. Our bad."
  - estebank 3y ago
    Which makes it more likely that whatever prevalence of false positives are ignored as long as false negatives are kept low. Meaning that people without recourse are affected disproportionally by something they have no control over.
empath-nirvana 3y ago
> Imagine being denied a visa based on that. The position of the US is that everyone coming to the US is intending to move here permanently, and any sort of visitation visa will be _denied by default_ from many countries unless you can prove otherwise, and the hoops they make you go through can be ridiculous. I talked to someone from Colombia who waited years for a visa interview, spent weeks preparing for it and got denied 5 minutes into the call because they didn't have enough money in the bank at home. No appeal. All they wanted to do is visit their brother for a week. They hadn't seen him for years.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  Yeah, that's terrible. Now imagine they checked the bank, found they had "enough" money, then denied them entry because they accidentally clicked the wrong button. The policy is often bullshit, but following it and still being denied would be infuriating.
  - potatolicious 3y ago
    And that's one of the major concerns with tools like these. Besides the conceptual problems of spying on people's musings, when's the last time a heavily marketed "AI" tool turned out to be at all accurate? It's one thing for the government to spy on your social media postings and decide you're a risk to the country, it's a whole 'nother thing for that to be an error because you posted about that "killer" concert or how a movie is "the bomb". Given what we know of government contractors and their inflated claims about AI my bet is that this tool - however justifiable or not in its use - doesn't even actually work as advertised.

empath-nirvana 3y ago

> "The government should not be using algorithms to scrutinize our social media posts and decide which of us is 'risky.' This article isn't super clear about what agencies are using this for what purposes, beyond looking at visa applicants, but visa applicants aren't US citizens and aren't in the US, so they don't have the same set of rights that citizens do, nor should they.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Are you aware that citizens within 100 miles of borders including Great Lakes are ok for border patrol to spy on, have their vehicles searched without warrant, etc? That area covers over 65% of the total US population btw
blululu 3y ago
That’s because that information is not available. The ACLU is working on finding that. The law applies to every one equally on US soil. Visa applicants can often be located in the US so they would have standing in a US court.
- lsmeducation 3y ago
  Does this even have to be a citizenship issue? The DHS is providing evidence that could alter the judgement of many of these people's cases. Do you have to be American to request that evidence be vetted? If anything, one wrong algo and you can re-open or close buckets of cases at once.
- gene91 3y ago
  > Visa applicants can often be located in the US Since 9/11, one cannot apply for a US visa if they’re in US. In the context of US immigration, “visa” grants entry, “status” grants stay. If you’re in US, and need to change “status” to a different category (business/leisure, student, etc), you have two primary choices: (1) apply for “change of status” in US, or (2) leave US, apply for a new “visa” in the new category, and enter US using that new “visa”.
  - 3y ago

blululu 3y ago

Before we fall for the flame bait, it is unclear what is happening from the article. The ACLU is suing DHS to get an explanation of how the DHS is using a service that collects and analyzes social media data on Visa applicants. The company sold a different product to enforce the law over visa terms using social media. They are now selling a different product but it is not public what it does or how it is used. The ACLU wants answers. That is all.

motohagiography 3y ago

There's got to be some game theoretic threshold where a party switches from optimizing to solve a problem to just attacking their critics instead. Something about the incentives has tipped for ostensibly democratic governments where they are spending their efforts demolishing their nations and societies and attacking their critics.

Eumenes 3y ago

Does this apply to illegal aliens? If so, I don't really see a problem with this, esp. in the wake of the Israel/Gaza conflict. Look at the country of origin from recent southern border crossing. Its all over the place. Somehow people from Africa, Asia, the Middle East, are getting to Mexico, and crossing the border. If I was trying to migrate to a different country, as an American, I'd fully suspect that country to do everything in its power to vet me.

lawlessone 3y ago
>Does this apply to illegal aliens? How could it? Undocumented people are undocumented. The harder / longer the process the more likely people are just find ways to forgo engaging with it. Especially if it looks like positive outcome is unlikely. Would need to see a citation on the rest of you've said as it sounds a little like right wing talking point. Seems a bit rich the descendants of many migrants are pulling up the ladder.
- salamanderss 3y ago
  Migrants always pull up the ladder, they're no different than you and I. Look at South Africa, visas are a total nightmare meanwhile almost everybody there are from tribes that migrated in recent history.
estebank 3y ago
As an american, it is unlikely (if understandable) that you know how your immigration system works neither in paper or in practice. As an american who has never lived abroad, you most definitely don't know how other immigration systems work. Your understanding of immigration has been molded by the media you consume, both news of whatever slant and movies.
- Eumenes 3y ago
  False. Led startups and teams, involved in hiring and helping to process h1b/e3/f1/tn visas. Held a blue card in Germany. What's your experience?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

shtopointo 3y ago

What am I missing here? Isn't it a good idea to vet people before you let them enter your country? Why would you let in someone that is hostile to your country? Especially these days with so many individuals being driven by nefarious ideologies?

justrealist 3y ago
Yeah like, there is a broad class of immigrant that endlessly complains about how awful the US is an awful force in the world, and then immigrates here for a high-paying job (and continues complaining). I don't want them! Why should we be required to ignore their personal feelings? There's a long list of people who want into the US. We should prioritize the people who actually like the US, this doesn't feel controversial.
- haswell 3y ago
  Delegating these kinds of decisions to a faceless AI is the thing that is controversial. The ability to systematically analyze a person's life and communications and then derive a "desirability" score is the thing that's controversial. Similar to the subject of client-side scanning for abusive material, the issue is not that anyone supports the abuse. The issues all stem from the implications of the underlying technology and embracing "the ends justify the means".
  - shtopointo 3y ago
    Would you be in favor of vetting some or all publicly available information before letting someone into a country? If the answer is no, then you might be missing a lot of people that have nefarious intent, where you could have prevented that by looking at their social media posts. If the answer is yes, then you have to delegate to something / someone. Maybe an AI might be better than a human at spotting warning signs.
    - haswell 3y ago
      I’m not saying that there should be no vetting whatsoever. But there’s a vast possibility space between no vetting and the systematic analysis of all public information about a person. Especially when social media - a place where people are rarely their authentic selves - is a primary source. There is far more stupid stuff being said on social media than dangerous stuff. But the two can be nearly indistinguishable without appropriate context. People will be denied entry for being spicy far more than for legitimate reasons I’d imagine. Not to mention that there is a significant amount of public information that should not be public in the first place. Its availability is not a justification for its use in this way. By > If the answer is no, then you might be missing a lot of people that have nefarious intent, where you could have prevented that by looking at their social media posts. I can’t get on board with this framing. It feels similar to the arguments for more cameras in public places. Put a camera on every corner. They’re public after all. But once you start feeding those cameras into a central AI that can track your every move, they’re no longer just cameras, and the very idea of what it means to be in public no longer means the same thing that it did for most of human civilization. Again, I’m not saying they should look at anything. But I think it’s also necessary to raise red flags when emerging tech will be used in increasingly invasive ways by governments.

Trias11 3y ago

[flagged]

plagiarist 3y ago
You have some cognitive biases you may want to work on.
- Trias11 3y ago
  You may want to change your nick for your advice to be taken seriously

ericfrazier 3y ago

Don't be a hypocrite and talk smack and then try to move to U.S.

andy_ppp 3y ago

I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords.

ada1981 3y ago

I can see why we’d want to see what people have posted about the US on social media before letting them. Problem is that it has chilling effects on folks who wouldn’t cause harm and would just be critical of us business or policy or culture.

maxdo 3y ago

I kind of some people are lost in their ultra liberal views, and anti big brother views. I consider myself moderately liberal. If you have an non citizen coming to US , and this person is hostile to US, why this person allowed to come here. It's a free world, if you don't like democracy, go to the other part of non-free world. Not letting hostile people in, it's a corner stone of any national security. It has nothing to do with liberalism. They are simply doing their job. And yes, you can find lots ways how US is not a free country. But at least US declare this as an idea. There are countries, Iran , Russia , China have other priorities.

bondolo 3y ago
What degree of criticism crosses the threshold of "hostile"? For some on the conservative side any criticism or comparison of the US by Americans or worse yet by foreigners unacceptable; the "love it or leave it" crowd. There have been repeated incidents of various politicians, journalists and authors being denied entry for little more (and sometimes less) than saying that the US "kinda sucks". Obviously there's little good reason to admit someone who wants to overthrow the government (there are already enough of those locally) but literally anyone who says that the US is less than perfect? I certainly don't want this decision to be in the hands of an unaccountable and capricious ICE officers. I've personally experienced just a taste of how petty they can be and have little reason to doubt that they are routinely spiteful assholes.

d3w4s9 3y ago

Ever since the Trump administration started requiring people to provide their social media accounts in visa applications, I stopped using all of them. Not going to do something that's going to potentially negatively impact my life. Social media companies don't have a good track record themselves anyway.

john-radio 3y ago

The OP link is blogspam wrapping around reporting from the excellent 404 Media, who just recently struck out on their own as a publication and deserve attention and support: https://www.404media.co/inside-ices-database-derogatory-information-giant-oak-gost/ https://www.404media.co/inside-ices-database-derogatory-info...

dang 3y ago
We've changed the URL from https://www.techspot.com/news/100642-ice-used-ai-powered-tool-scan-social-media.html https://www.techspot.com/news/100642-ice-used-ai-powered-too.... Thanks.

soulofmischief 3y ago

As a US citizen, I will be as derogatory to the US government as I wish. And I expect the same right for any citizen of the world, and any would-be citizen of the US. Why else would they be applying for US citizenship if not to secure the right to free speech?

evantbyrne 3y ago
They are probably looking for markers of terrorism and criminal activity. One thing that I learned from my work with the SPLC was that extremists self-snitch on social media all the time. Transparency in law enforcement is always a good thing though so hopefully we'll learn more from the lawsuit.
- soulofmischief 3y ago
  These systems typically have major issues with bias and mislabeled training data [0], and I have a feeling ICE has very lax heuristics for what makes a given post extremist or indicative of criminal activity. My own views are far from moderate in many respects, and I don't think ICE would like them very much. [0] https://www.surgehq.ai//blog/30-percent-of-googles-reddit-emotions-dataset-is-mislabeled https://www.surgehq.ai//blog/30-percent-of-googles-reddit-em...

garlic_yogurt 3y ago

Dang the comments are crazy. So i cant post about the insane triggerhappy police force? What about the outrageous offence budget? The amount of homeless (absolutely towering over the amount that my shithole 3rd world homecountry has) especially in contrast to the offence budget? The opioid crisis? Housing becoming not affordable for so many? Etc etc so many other things? Do I have to allign with the status quo completely? This may have been what happened to me as I didnt get an H1B 3 years in a row so I had to leave and the company i worked for had to get me an L1 visa. Im not an avid social media poster or anyrhing either, but I have been critical of the US online. Not getting H1B as someone with an MS diploma felt like it was personal (and not a "lottery" that the visa is claimed to be) Inb4, then why come? Well, before I came I never knew any of this stuff, as i was a foreigner in high school. Came over for college, stayed for a position at a FAANG corp. "The american dream"

sudosysgen 3y ago

I've known a grad student that was admitted to a very prestigious US university, and came from a country which was unjustly invaded by the US. When he was about to come, his visa was denied/indefinitely delayed, and they eventually admitted that the reason was that they made derogatory posts on social media as a result of that invasion.

jessenaser 3y ago

So you’re a journalist. You criticize the French government in your investigative reporting. You take a visit to France again next time. They prohibit your entry based on your articles. All else equal you otherwise would have been granted entry. === The United States’ Constitution has a first amendment that does not discern between citizen or not. It applies to the laws that can be made. Same goes for the other bill of rights. Obviously a non citizen should not have the right to vote, but a non citizen still should have and they do have the right of freedom of speech or the right to a speedy trial… Otherwise the laws you made are not impartial.

salamanderss 3y ago
Part of the first amendment, specifically assembly and petitioning grievances is explicitly qualified to the 'people'. Aliens are not generally considered the 'people' in the US, as evidenced by them not being allowed arms which are the right of (even individual per Heller) people.
- jessenaser 3y ago
  Incorrect. When a part of the constitution wants to describe the requirement of citizen or not, it will specifically say. "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States." "No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen."
  - salamanderss 3y ago
    So aliens have the right to bear arms in the US?
    - 3y ago

fennecbutt 3y ago

Which is total BS because as someone who moved to the UK, I bitch about the UK all the time. Sure, I respect the fact that I've been allowed to live and work here, but what sort of democracy doesn't allow critical thoughts of a government, country, culture etc? There's a huge difference between if I said something like "The UK state should be destroyed, all British citizens are heathens" as opposed to what I usually say which is more "there's a huge class and wealth gap problem in the UK", "both sides of the gov here are only interested in filling their own pockets with money", "why does my tier 5 visa years not count towards ILR like my tier 2 does, why is UK so anti immigration when their entire services economy replies upon it?", "British people are resistant to change and cling onto old ideas", "British politeness is actually a myth, rudeness is just expressed differently here, the politeness is often insincere". All things that are critical of the UK but valid viewpoints that others may disagree with. I couldn't imagine not being able to be freely critical of the place you live. What's the point in voting, otherwise?