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> Instead, they are comparing it to other developed countries and focused on specific conditions that matter to them, like housing, transportation, environment,

> Instead, they are comparing it to other developed countries and focused on specific conditions that matter to them, like housing, transportation, environment, violence, etc. When I hear people complain online about the US, it is very common for them to have a deep understanding of problems in the US, but very superficial understanding of problems in other developed nations. European countries also have lots of problems with housing, healthcare, the environment, racism, the rise of the far right, etc. There are some problems that are uniquely american, like mass shootings. Being an informed citizen isn't just understanding the problems in your country. If you wan't to be a part of positive change, you need to understand what's working and what's not working in other comparable countries as well.

nradov 3y ago
Indeed. It's hilarious to see some Americans claiming things are so much better in "Europe" when their entire experience consists of a few weeks as a tourist or business traveler in first-tier EU cities. Try living for a while in the places where outsiders rarely go and then tell me how great it is.
- throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
  I have done this, its really great for me and my family. Kid goes to public school and most of our friends are locals. Would highly recommend everyone try this for a bit and make their own judgement.
- danans 3y ago
  > Indeed. It's hilarious to see some Americans claiming things are so much better in "Europe" when their entire experience consists of a few weeks as a tourist or business traveler in first-tier EU cities. Being specific in your comparison matters. It is indeed facile to make the statement that "things are so much better in Europe". Blanket statements are usually stupid. It's reasonable, however, to compare the efficacy of public transit of San Francisco to that of Copenhagen, or to compare the a population-wide health indicators of the US to Germany.
  - andrewmutz 3y ago
    > It's not unreasonable, however, to compare the efficiency of public transit of San Francisco to that of Copenhagen. Comparing accessibility of population-wide health indicators of the US to Germany also makes sense. I definitely agree that the US healthcare system sucks and should not be emulated. But I think many of its critics think healthcare is a solved problem in countries like Germany and it really isn't. Germans are not completely happy with their healthcare system and there is an effort underway to reform it currently. I think it's a better system than the US system, but it's got plenty of problems: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/14/a-ticking-time-bomb-healthcare-under-threat-across-western-europe https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/14/a-ticking-ti... > In Germany, which spends more on healthcare than almost any other country in the world, hospitals are a greater concern, with this winter’s wave of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) in young children triggering alarm across the country. > Amid reports of overcrowded casualty departments and parents forced to sleep in hospital corridors or travel hundreds of kilometres for a child’s treatment, the Süddeutsche Zeitung said the country was witnessing “what it means when a system implodes … in scenes which for a long time might have seemed unimaginable”. > In a petition to parliament titled: “Alert level red – hospitals in danger”, the German Hospital Society (DKG) again highlighted a chronic lack of staff as the main problem, noting that many hospitals had had to temporarily close casualty departments due to a lack of doctors and nurses. > More than 23,000 posts remain unfilled in Germany’s hospitals after several years of low recruitment and recent mass resignations, particularly in intensive care and operating theatres, by staff citing a workload so extreme that some were unable to take even a short break or go to the toilet. Additionally, the poor health outcomes in the United States are not necessarily the result of the US health care system. Many of the most important drivers of health care outcomes (exercise, nutrition, obesity, drug abuse, etc) are worse in the US. My point isn't that the US health system is great, because it isn't great. My point is that people in the US are well informed about their own problems but generally ignorant about the problems outside the country.
  - adventured 3y ago
    It often doesn't make sense: the nicest countries in Europe won't allow you to become an immigrant there, because they're hyper xenophobic and or extremely racist. They have very tall barriers to entry that are intentional. They usually call it protecting their culture, it's really just plain old xenophobia and racism. The nicest European countries are fragile and can't handle immigration well at all. Just ask Sweden how their next 30 or so years are starting to look. France has entirely failed for decades at integrating their immigration populations, despite their vaunted welfare state. They're very mediocre at functional integration, whereas the US is the greatest by-design melting pot in world history. Try immigrating into affluent nations like Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway, Finland, etc. They make it far more difficult than it is to come to the US (unless you're a top tier immigrant in terms of skill/wealth). The nicest countries love to use points systems or the equivalent to keep poorer, lower skilled people out. Canada for example is 2% black and 3% Latin American. Anyone think that's an accident? There are roughly 3/4 of a billion Latin Americans in the Americas and somehow Canada is merely 3% Latin American. The huge Latin American immigration wave the US has seen over the past 40-50 years has been nearly entirely blocked by Canada. It's by design, they're xenophobic like the Europeans are, and they do everything they can to keep poor people out. People will say: just look how amazing Norway or Germany are. It's a nice fantasy, because good luck becoming a citizen (maybe for the privileged HN crowd there's a chance). Japan is amazing? Yeah ok, go try becoming a citizen there. Try integrating, try becoming Japanese (you can't). So what the hell is the point of saying: xyz is so wonderful - if they're excluding by design and won't let you join? Gee, Stanford, MIT and Harvard are amazing, every college should be like that. The US remains moderately accessible, most of its peers are the exact opposite.
- __turbobrew__ 3y ago
  Yea, there is a reason why net immigration between Europe and the USA heavily biases towards people moving from EU to USA and not the other way around. The USA is truly the land of opportunity. More than anywhere else you alone control your own destiny. The USA has also proven time and again that it is more economically resilient than any other economy out there. There are booms and busts, but the recovery from the busts are always strong and do not stagnate for extended periods of time. I say this all as someone who does not live in the USA and is not an American citizen. The USA is not perfect and has its own share of social problems (like all countries do) but people decide that the tradeoff is worth it for all the good things the USA offers.
  - danans 3y ago
    > The USA is truly the land of opportunity. More than anywhere else you alone control your own destiny. The USA has also proven time and again that it is more economically resilient than any other economy out there. There are booms and busts, but the recovery from the busts are always strong and do not stagnate for extended periods of time. It's not limited to economic opportunity. The US also offers people the opportunity to make the US better through our democratic process.
  - olddustytrail 3y ago
    Is it because poor Americans can't afford to move to Europe even if they would be better off, but wealthier Europeans can emigrate to the USA where they will definitely be better off?
    - __turbobrew__ 3y ago
      Possibly, the USA is a good place to be rich and not so good of a place to be poor.
    - parineum 3y ago
      Assuming some place in Europe would take them, which I suspect is the larger barrier along with language. Countries with extensive social programs for the poor typically aren't the easiest places to immigrate.

nradov 3y ago

Indeed. It's hilarious to see some Americans claiming things are so much better in "Europe" when their entire experience consists of a few weeks as a tourist or business traveler in first-tier EU cities. Try living for a while in the places where outsiders rarely go and then tell me how great it is.

throwawaydizjsj 3y ago
I have done this, its really great for me and my family. Kid goes to public school and most of our friends are locals. Would highly recommend everyone try this for a bit and make their own judgement.
danans 3y ago
> Indeed. It's hilarious to see some Americans claiming things are so much better in "Europe" when their entire experience consists of a few weeks as a tourist or business traveler in first-tier EU cities. Being specific in your comparison matters. It is indeed facile to make the statement that "things are so much better in Europe". Blanket statements are usually stupid. It's reasonable, however, to compare the efficacy of public transit of San Francisco to that of Copenhagen, or to compare the a population-wide health indicators of the US to Germany.
- andrewmutz 3y ago
  > It's not unreasonable, however, to compare the efficiency of public transit of San Francisco to that of Copenhagen. Comparing accessibility of population-wide health indicators of the US to Germany also makes sense. I definitely agree that the US healthcare system sucks and should not be emulated. But I think many of its critics think healthcare is a solved problem in countries like Germany and it really isn't. Germans are not completely happy with their healthcare system and there is an effort underway to reform it currently. I think it's a better system than the US system, but it's got plenty of problems: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/14/a-ticking-time-bomb-healthcare-under-threat-across-western-europe https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/dec/14/a-ticking-ti... > In Germany, which spends more on healthcare than almost any other country in the world, hospitals are a greater concern, with this winter’s wave of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) in young children triggering alarm across the country. > Amid reports of overcrowded casualty departments and parents forced to sleep in hospital corridors or travel hundreds of kilometres for a child’s treatment, the Süddeutsche Zeitung said the country was witnessing “what it means when a system implodes … in scenes which for a long time might have seemed unimaginable”. > In a petition to parliament titled: “Alert level red – hospitals in danger”, the German Hospital Society (DKG) again highlighted a chronic lack of staff as the main problem, noting that many hospitals had had to temporarily close casualty departments due to a lack of doctors and nurses. > More than 23,000 posts remain unfilled in Germany’s hospitals after several years of low recruitment and recent mass resignations, particularly in intensive care and operating theatres, by staff citing a workload so extreme that some were unable to take even a short break or go to the toilet. Additionally, the poor health outcomes in the United States are not necessarily the result of the US health care system. Many of the most important drivers of health care outcomes (exercise, nutrition, obesity, drug abuse, etc) are worse in the US. My point isn't that the US health system is great, because it isn't great. My point is that people in the US are well informed about their own problems but generally ignorant about the problems outside the country.
- adventured 3y ago
  It often doesn't make sense: the nicest countries in Europe won't allow you to become an immigrant there, because they're hyper xenophobic and or extremely racist. They have very tall barriers to entry that are intentional. They usually call it protecting their culture, it's really just plain old xenophobia and racism. The nicest European countries are fragile and can't handle immigration well at all. Just ask Sweden how their next 30 or so years are starting to look. France has entirely failed for decades at integrating their immigration populations, despite their vaunted welfare state. They're very mediocre at functional integration, whereas the US is the greatest by-design melting pot in world history. Try immigrating into affluent nations like Canada, Australia, Germany, Norway, Finland, etc. They make it far more difficult than it is to come to the US (unless you're a top tier immigrant in terms of skill/wealth). The nicest countries love to use points systems or the equivalent to keep poorer, lower skilled people out. Canada for example is 2% black and 3% Latin American. Anyone think that's an accident? There are roughly 3/4 of a billion Latin Americans in the Americas and somehow Canada is merely 3% Latin American. The huge Latin American immigration wave the US has seen over the past 40-50 years has been nearly entirely blocked by Canada. It's by design, they're xenophobic like the Europeans are, and they do everything they can to keep poor people out. People will say: just look how amazing Norway or Germany are. It's a nice fantasy, because good luck becoming a citizen (maybe for the privileged HN crowd there's a chance). Japan is amazing? Yeah ok, go try becoming a citizen there. Try integrating, try becoming Japanese (you can't). So what the hell is the point of saying: xyz is so wonderful - if they're excluding by design and won't let you join? Gee, Stanford, MIT and Harvard are amazing, every college should be like that. The US remains moderately accessible, most of its peers are the exact opposite.
__turbobrew__ 3y ago
Yea, there is a reason why net immigration between Europe and the USA heavily biases towards people moving from EU to USA and not the other way around. The USA is truly the land of opportunity. More than anywhere else you alone control your own destiny. The USA has also proven time and again that it is more economically resilient than any other economy out there. There are booms and busts, but the recovery from the busts are always strong and do not stagnate for extended periods of time. I say this all as someone who does not live in the USA and is not an American citizen. The USA is not perfect and has its own share of social problems (like all countries do) but people decide that the tradeoff is worth it for all the good things the USA offers.
- danans 3y ago
  > The USA is truly the land of opportunity. More than anywhere else you alone control your own destiny. The USA has also proven time and again that it is more economically resilient than any other economy out there. There are booms and busts, but the recovery from the busts are always strong and do not stagnate for extended periods of time. It's not limited to economic opportunity. The US also offers people the opportunity to make the US better through our democratic process.
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  Is it because poor Americans can't afford to move to Europe even if they would be better off, but wealthier Europeans can emigrate to the USA where they will definitely be better off?
  - __turbobrew__ 3y ago
    Possibly, the USA is a good place to be rich and not so good of a place to be poor.
  - parineum 3y ago
    Assuming some place in Europe would take them, which I suspect is the larger barrier along with language. Countries with extensive social programs for the poor typically aren't the easiest places to immigrate.