9 ms·

Because people hate Musk (understandably so) and since, apparently, we can't hold nuanced opinions anymore, then they must also hate whatever the man has produc

by elteto 3y ago

Because people hate Musk (understandably so) and since, apparently, we can't hold nuanced opinions anymore, then they must also hate whatever the man has produced. By the way, I absolutely despise the man and his antics, but I don't want to live in a world where SpaceX fails, just to spite him.

avmich 3y ago
I'm thinking about rebranding SpaceX with Gwynne Shotwell persona - I think she at least spends greater fraction of her time on SpaceX matters than Elon these days.
- darknavi 3y ago
  I normally say Gwynne Shotwell is underappreciated but I am really glad people here mention her. She is definitely the "rock" that holds the leadership team together it seems.
- machdiamonds 3y ago
  Personally, I like it when the technical people are seen as the face of the company:https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
sneak 3y ago
I’m of the belief that the reason he has so suddenly become hated in the last few years (because it’s really unjustified, if you look purely at his works) is a direct result of engineering by those who would suffer if he continued his ascent without public opinion against him. None of the public narrative about him (especially the Twitter stuff) or the reasons people generally mock him make much sense, or are very relevant to 99% of the things he is actually spending time and resources on. It’s 100% manufactured. Starship and access to orbit, as well as Starlink (which cheap access to orbit enabled) are indeed insanely powerful geopolitical tools. Many of the existing geopolitical engineers would hate to see him not be firmly subordinate to themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FAA’s decision is being used as a bargaining chip here. You don’t get to do things like this in the USA unless you play ball 100% with the existing people who control access to orbit. Nobody is richer or more powerful than the people who presently control the satellite-based weapons and surveillance systems that the US operates. Nobody will be able to be in a position to replace or supplant them without some sort of negotiation with them. Imagine it: with a working Starship, Musk could replace GPS, Keyhole, and whatever the rods-from-god system is codenamed, in a matter of months (or perhaps weeks, if the payload design work is already underway), for anyone on the Earth who he thinks would benefit his goals. A lot of the leverage that exists against him (and can presently be used to constrain him) would be gone, never to return. It’s already fairly obvious that the geopolitical status quo on Earth is not very important to him.
- rout39574 3y ago
  I think the recent wave of vitriol is mostly associated with his decision to destroy Twitter in the process of attempting to make it a safe space for racists. That and his seeming to align himself with our strategic adversaries on the world stage. The latter is possibly dismissable as "Well, that's just your opinion, man..." but he gives muscle to his opinion by making business decisions with strategic policy implications (e.g. turn off Ukraine starlink service at strategig moments..) The twitter vandalism is very clearly "his works".
  - sneak 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - feoren 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - mongol 3y ago
      Are you of the opinion that Ukraine is involved with murder and slaughter?
      - snovv_crash 3y ago
        AT&T wouldn't be happy with you pulling their cell tower repeaters into a warzone either. Using shared infrastructure for war purposes exposes it to retaliation.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        Except no one is going retaliate against starlink as it would stop _everyone_ from launching satellites.
        sneak 3y ago
        Humans who subscribe to game theory have gambled against Russia with much higher stakes than these in years past. I would not depend on “nobody can launch satellites” being sufficient deterrent when GTO brinksmanship with the USSR put only Stanislav Petrov between reality and total human extinction. If you believe, as I do, that Ukraine’s ability to export shale gas to the west is a literal existential crisis for Russia as a state in the long term, then it makes sense that they would go to quite significant extents indeed to ensure that that remains impossible, right up to things that would mostly destroy Russian society in the process, tragically.
cryptoegorophy 3y ago
Why people hate him? Seems like a lot of “media” hates him and that’s what causes people to hate this guy, not the guy itself but the media. He does have some questionable behaviour for a CEO, but I highly prefer that kind of ceo that talks what he thinks rather than the one that reads from the brochure to make shareholders happy. Positives are far far more outweigh the negatives in this case.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  If you want to discuss it, let's have a genuine discussion. You know many more and better reasons why people dislike Musk.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  Go on reddit and ask them. They'll tell you that Elon Musk aligned himself with republicans aka 'literally nazis'. This outweighs anything positive he could possibly ever do. Any cred he once earned for himself by trying to popularize electric cars? Completely gone, he's a republican so he hates the environment. Building rockets is perceived to be little more than a cynical cover story for his real plan to ruin wetlands and murder ocelots.
  - lstodd 3y ago
    So this. On the ocelot question - he will cynically tickle them to death instead. This is about as reasonable discussion as can be had on the topic of Musk. Which is sad.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      The ocelot concern is a transparent farce.
- elteto 3y ago
  Off the top of my head: - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. - All the lying and broken promises regarding FSD and other shenanigans with Tesla stock (the “taking it private” debacle, the bitcoin pump and dump, etc). - All the COVID conspiracy idiocy and non-sense. I’m sure there’s plenty more I’m forgetting.
HappyDaoDude 3y ago
My initial issues with Musk was that he tended to push ideas and time frames WAY beyond what was reasonable. Tesla / Space X are already amazing in almost ever respect, it doesn't need all the silly hype machine on top of it. Yes, it is neat to think about Mars bases eventually but that should be a stretch goal not pushed as "It is 4 years away!". Starship is an incredible achievement already and I suspect it will come together quicker than we anticipate (less than a decade, probably in the next 2-3 years) but Musk had always promoted time lines and ambitions that were silly. Like point to point public rocket travel by 2030. The thing cannot land yet and they are already thinking 50 steps ahead with a stated date. That doesn't detract from Space X's achievements but it does cast a shadow over them as a whole.
- fallingknife 3y ago
  Who cares? If he builds the most advanced rocket in the world, nobody will remember he was late. Late is not a meaningful criticism when building things that have never been done before.
- fnordpiglet 3y ago
  Hype = funding
- jwells89 3y ago
  That over-ambitiousness is a big factor in attracting (and to some degree, keeping) talent I'd bet. It's one of SpaceX's key differentiators compared to incumbents where the overarching attitude seems to be, "well, we'll get back to the moon at some point in the future, maybe, if we're lucky". That's not to knock the brilliant people working for those companies but it's gotta be harder to be excited when it feels like the corporate gears are perpetually gummed up with cold tar.
- imtringued 3y ago
  >Starship is an incredible achievement already and I suspect it will come together quicker than we anticipate (less than a decade, probably in the next 2-3 years) You do know that the next Artemis mission is in 2024? According to your timeline it would be delayed more than the much hated space launch system which actually went to the moon
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cchance 3y ago
Same i didn't mind him before he went completely nutters, but i can love SpaceX, Tesla and the companies without loving him, it seems other people have decided everyone at tesla and spacex are evil because an idiot owns the company.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- oezi 3y ago
  I don't know. At some point you have to draw a line. For me Elon has said enough problematic things that it is out of the question to buy a Tesla.
senectus1 3y ago
If you replace the words Elon Musk with "some guy" and talk about spaceX rather than some guy... it helps a heap

by elteto 3y ago

avmich 3y ago

I'm thinking about rebranding SpaceX with Gwynne Shotwell persona - I think she at least spends greater fraction of her time on SpaceX matters than Elon these days.

darknavi 3y ago
I normally say Gwynne Shotwell is underappreciated but I am really glad people here mention her. She is definitely the "rock" that holds the leadership team together it seems.
machdiamonds 3y ago
Personally, I like it when the technical people are seen as the face of the company:https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

sneak 3y ago

I’m of the belief that the reason he has so suddenly become hated in the last few years (because it’s really unjustified, if you look purely at his works) is a direct result of engineering by those who would suffer if he continued his ascent without public opinion against him. None of the public narrative about him (especially the Twitter stuff) or the reasons people generally mock him make much sense, or are very relevant to 99% of the things he is actually spending time and resources on. It’s 100% manufactured. Starship and access to orbit, as well as Starlink (which cheap access to orbit enabled) are indeed insanely powerful geopolitical tools. Many of the existing geopolitical engineers would hate to see him not be firmly subordinate to themselves. I wouldn’t be surprised if the FAA’s decision is being used as a bargaining chip here. You don’t get to do things like this in the USA unless you play ball 100% with the existing people who control access to orbit. Nobody is richer or more powerful than the people who presently control the satellite-based weapons and surveillance systems that the US operates. Nobody will be able to be in a position to replace or supplant them without some sort of negotiation with them. Imagine it: with a working Starship, Musk could replace GPS, Keyhole, and whatever the rods-from-god system is codenamed, in a matter of months (or perhaps weeks, if the payload design work is already underway), for anyone on the Earth who he thinks would benefit his goals. A lot of the leverage that exists against him (and can presently be used to constrain him) would be gone, never to return. It’s already fairly obvious that the geopolitical status quo on Earth is not very important to him.

rout39574 3y ago
I think the recent wave of vitriol is mostly associated with his decision to destroy Twitter in the process of attempting to make it a safe space for racists. That and his seeming to align himself with our strategic adversaries on the world stage. The latter is possibly dismissable as "Well, that's just your opinion, man..." but he gives muscle to his opinion by making business decisions with strategic policy implications (e.g. turn off Ukraine starlink service at strategig moments..) The twitter vandalism is very clearly "his works".
- sneak 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - feoren 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - mongol 3y ago
    Are you of the opinion that Ukraine is involved with murder and slaughter?
    - snovv_crash 3y ago
      AT&T wouldn't be happy with you pulling their cell tower repeaters into a warzone either. Using shared infrastructure for war purposes exposes it to retaliation.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        Except no one is going retaliate against starlink as it would stop _everyone_ from launching satellites.
        sneak 3y ago
        Humans who subscribe to game theory have gambled against Russia with much higher stakes than these in years past. I would not depend on “nobody can launch satellites” being sufficient deterrent when GTO brinksmanship with the USSR put only Stanislav Petrov between reality and total human extinction. If you believe, as I do, that Ukraine’s ability to export shale gas to the west is a literal existential crisis for Russia as a state in the long term, then it makes sense that they would go to quite significant extents indeed to ensure that that remains impossible, right up to things that would mostly destroy Russian society in the process, tragically.

cryptoegorophy 3y ago

Why people hate him? Seems like a lot of “media” hates him and that’s what causes people to hate this guy, not the guy itself but the media. He does have some questionable behaviour for a CEO, but I highly prefer that kind of ceo that talks what he thinks rather than the one that reads from the brochure to make shareholders happy. Positives are far far more outweigh the negatives in this case.

wolverine876 3y ago
If you want to discuss it, let's have a genuine discussion. You know many more and better reasons why people dislike Musk.
mcpackieh 3y ago
Go on reddit and ask them. They'll tell you that Elon Musk aligned himself with republicans aka 'literally nazis'. This outweighs anything positive he could possibly ever do. Any cred he once earned for himself by trying to popularize electric cars? Completely gone, he's a republican so he hates the environment. Building rockets is perceived to be little more than a cynical cover story for his real plan to ruin wetlands and murder ocelots.
- lstodd 3y ago
  So this. On the ocelot question - he will cynically tickle them to death instead. This is about as reasonable discussion as can be had on the topic of Musk. Which is sad.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    The ocelot concern is a transparent farce.
elteto 3y ago
Off the top of my head: - He has turned into a pro-Putin, right wing troll, regularly spewing out falsehoods on Twitter/X. - How he has (mis?)managed Twitter so far. - All the lying and broken promises regarding FSD and other shenanigans with Tesla stock (the “taking it private” debacle, the bitcoin pump and dump, etc). - All the COVID conspiracy idiocy and non-sense. I’m sure there’s plenty more I’m forgetting.

HappyDaoDude 3y ago

My initial issues with Musk was that he tended to push ideas and time frames WAY beyond what was reasonable. Tesla / Space X are already amazing in almost ever respect, it doesn't need all the silly hype machine on top of it. Yes, it is neat to think about Mars bases eventually but that should be a stretch goal not pushed as "It is 4 years away!". Starship is an incredible achievement already and I suspect it will come together quicker than we anticipate (less than a decade, probably in the next 2-3 years) but Musk had always promoted time lines and ambitions that were silly. Like point to point public rocket travel by 2030. The thing cannot land yet and they are already thinking 50 steps ahead with a stated date. That doesn't detract from Space X's achievements but it does cast a shadow over them as a whole.

fallingknife 3y ago
Who cares? If he builds the most advanced rocket in the world, nobody will remember he was late. Late is not a meaningful criticism when building things that have never been done before.
fnordpiglet 3y ago
Hype = funding
jwells89 3y ago
That over-ambitiousness is a big factor in attracting (and to some degree, keeping) talent I'd bet. It's one of SpaceX's key differentiators compared to incumbents where the overarching attitude seems to be, "well, we'll get back to the moon at some point in the future, maybe, if we're lucky". That's not to knock the brilliant people working for those companies but it's gotta be harder to be excited when it feels like the corporate gears are perpetually gummed up with cold tar.
imtringued 3y ago
>Starship is an incredible achievement already and I suspect it will come together quicker than we anticipate (less than a decade, probably in the next 2-3 years) You do know that the next Artemis mission is in 2024? According to your timeline it would be delayed more than the much hated space launch system which actually went to the moon

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cchance 3y ago

Same i didn't mind him before he went completely nutters, but i can love SpaceX, Tesla and the companies without loving him, it seems other people have decided everyone at tesla and spacex are evil because an idiot owns the company.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
oezi 3y ago
I don't know. At some point you have to draw a line. For me Elon has said enough problematic things that it is out of the question to buy a Tesla.

senectus1 3y ago

If you replace the words Elon Musk with "some guy" and talk about spaceX rather than some guy... it helps a heap