16 ms·

Rivian R1T is the first EV to win the longest off-road competition in the US

226 points by dkobia 3y ago

codeTired 3y ago
Just be careful not to dent quarter panels on a rivian. It’s something like $40k to replace. Normally a $2k-$3k job on any other pick up truck. These car companies suck when it becomes to repairability. Edit: I’m not going to argue with naysayers below, this dude was quoted $41k but was able to PDR(https://www.thedrive.com/news/41000-rivian-fender-bender-actually-just-needed-paintless-dent-removal https://www.thedrive.com/news/41000-rivian-fender-bender-act...). Tesla repairs with giga casting are also a lot more expensive than similar “regular” cars. This isn’t an issue of unibody design. My family owned a body shop and I painted cars for few years. I will stick with main stream brands like Toyota.
- almost_usual 3y ago
  Yeah, insurance will not pick that up if it was caused while off roading. I’m guessing taking your Rivian off road will also void the warranty. If you off road it’s good to know how to repair your rig.
  - codeTired 3y ago
    It’s best to off-road in a reasonably built car, like a Land Cruiser or a bronco.
  - mikeryan 3y ago
    It won’t void your warranty. The Rivian was designed, and is, an incredibly competent off road vehicle. It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it and a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road.
    - almost_usual 3y ago
      > It won’t void your warranty. Wow, that is truly surprising. I’d be more worried about the driver if I were Rivian? What stops someone from driving through a creek and submerging their truck? Damaging their undercarriage on a rock? Sliding into a tree? etc. > The Rivian was designed, and is, an incredibly competent off road vehicle. It looks like it doesn’t have locking differentials but that’s usually overkill. > It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it I’ll need to read more about the “Off Road” drive modes. It sounds similar to the Tacoma’s “Crawl Control”. > a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road. An air compressor is nice but you can pick up a Tsunami Air Compressor and a tire deflator for like $130.
      - wkipling 3y ago
        Off-road cars have limitations. I'll bet the Rivian just like other 4wds will have a maximum wading depth for water crossings.
        defrost 3y ago
        If the door seals are good there's not a maximum wading depth, rather a maximum time paddle boating in water before seals give way | river current moves the 4x4 too far. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC5ld79joIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC5ld79joIA Note that the Land Cruiser is bouyant in the water and not touching ground.
        arjvik 3y ago
        How did the driver turn??
        defrost 3y ago
        Back wheels spinning in water create weak driving force forward. Front wheels can turn and provide rudimentary front rudder effect wrt force from rear wheels pushing forward. If 4xwheel drive was engaged the front wheels wouls also be driven and provide a "clawing forwards" directional force. It's not the ideal boat, but it floats and works up to a point (as seen). With the engine weight forward it's entirely possible the front wheels were occassionally touching down when over the pan of the crossing. When the vehichle went to the left of the crossing it's unlikely the front wheels had any contact as the crossing (unflooded) is typically higher than the river bed on either side.
  - caseyf7 3y ago
    Rivian insurance covers off-road use.
- Retric 3y ago
  Probably closer to 8-14k if you’re not willing to leave the dent. The famed 42k bill was for a rear end collision that caused more damage than it looked like. Cars are much safer today but crumple zones mean minor fender benders result in huge repair bills. However, they are also a major part of the 90+% reduction in vehicle fatalities per mile over the last 100 years. “They took the R1T to a certified Rivian body shop who said the entire rear quarter panel, as well as some tailgate internals, needed replacing. The total cost of replacing an entire body panel and some tailgate bits was reportedly just over $14,000.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns-into-42000-repair-bill https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns...
  - Moto7451 3y ago
    I was rear ended about 8 years ago. I was in a lane that is parking most of the day (like when I stopped) and no stopping/anti-congestion during rush hour. My Camaro was hit by a person traveling at least at the 45MPH speed limit. They were on their phone and thankfully were so angry they unintentionally confessed it all to the police office taking the report. I ended up not paying a cent to fix the car, but I did get a copy of the bill. All in all the cost to repair it was in excess of $18,000 from a third party shop that didn’t do a great job on the finish. That was only $5k less than the Kelly Bluebook value for my car at that point in time. In short, it costs a lot to repair crash damage. That’s something people probably don’t think about too deeply if they have comprehensive coverage and pay just their deductible.
    - codeTired 3y ago
      A dent is much different than a 45mph crash. At that speed you have to replace half of the car. We have done those at our shop on an occasion. It’s rare as it’s a pricy repair.
      - Moto7451 3y ago
        It actually wasn’t far off from the “one panel” as the 5th Gen Camaro has a long panel that stretches from the bumper to the tip of the A Pillar. Otherwise it was a bumper cover, crash structure (which is disposable above 10MPH) and a trunk lid. The biggest cost was the panel.
- bastawhiz 3y ago
  $40k is just incorrect. My buddy did exactly this and he's facing a bill of $14k. Which is still outrageous, but like three times less.
  - holoduke 3y ago
    I bought my 20 year old infiniti for 14k, 10 years ago. I think most people will be in serious issues when they suffer a 14k bill for a fender. I think if do a large overhaul including a full repaint on my car it would cost less than 14k
    - fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
      Most people will just suffer the insurance deductible though.
      - bdavisx 3y ago
        If your vehicle costs that much for a "simple" repair you're going to be suffering from expensive insurance too.
        AshleyGrant 3y ago
        So... pretty much everyone these days?
  - smcl 3y ago
    It's a third of $40k, "three times less" than $40k would be -$80k
    - dag11 3y ago
      "X times less" is actually a technically meaningless statement, but colloquially would mean 1/X. There's nothing to be gained by being pedantic over that
      - 3y ago
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Does this mean they are incredibly expensive to insure?
  - rokkitmensch 3y ago
    A buddy close to underwriting heaves giant sighs and mutters darkly when anyone in his book of individual policies wants to insure one because yes.
    - reducesuffering 3y ago
      Is that because after barely scraping by $80k or an $800/mth payment, they freak out why there’s another $300/mth?
      - guhidalg 3y ago
        Well at least the first two are paying for an asset, whereas the insurance payments are paying for something nebulous that you may or may not need. The ideal insurance premium is $0/month.
    - seattle_spring 3y ago
      Er... I own one and it is maybe 10% more to insure than my previous Subaru.
      - gnicholas 3y ago
        How is that possible, just given the sheer cost difference? Or is most of your insurance policy covering liability (for if you hit other people), as opposed to the risk of damage to your own car?
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        jinushaun 3y ago
        It’s true. They are surprisingly cheap to insure. The current theory is that they are new and insurance companies don’t have enough data yet. Everyone expects rates to skyrocket as more $40k repair bills come in.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Despite claims to the contrary, I haven't really seen evidence of this with Tesla. The giga casts have pretty conventional crush structures ahead and behind them. It seems like the kind of crashes that'd cause massive costs are big enough to be massively costly either way. The Rivian case is a bit of a head scratcher. They made some truly odd choices that are making fairly simple repairs much harder than necessary. It is obvious they are new to this.
  - skullone 3y ago
    First to market, but with beginner mistakes. I'll wait for a more mature EV truck myself. I want a simple box frame, with a body on frame, nothing fancy. Just pure utilitarian EV truck like a base F150 but with a battery.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      I've heard that EV trucks are mostly unibodies given the structure they need to protect and support the battery underneath. But I think the F-150 lightning is simple body on frame (as you said, although I think you are confused that this doesn't exist yet?), and the new Silverado EV will be neither unibody nor body on frame, whatever that means.
      - bluGill 3y ago
        Unibody and body on frame have different pros and cons. Most people buying a truck want a unibody. The F150 lightening is only available in the crew cab version - you can get cars with as much cargo space. If you are actually hauling heavy things, or towing a trailer then a frame is strong and better able to handle that. However if you are only hauling people with some light luggage then a unibody is plenty strong and betters resists twisting forces making for a nicer ride.
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      I think F-150 Lightning is the closest to what you are looking for. But it has its own type of beginner's mistakes with the batteries. The charge curve isn't great, if that matters to you.
- wise_young_man 3y ago
  What does this have to do with them winning a contest? It comes across as argument baiting.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - codeTired 3y ago
    Good thing to keep in mind imo.
- aitchnyu 3y ago
  If car bumpers are made immune to parking lot speed hits, will they necessarily be worse at crash safety? Looking at how 4m cars have more complex bodies than older Porsches and pack lights at each corner of the bumpers.
- dagurp 3y ago
  It's s truck, leave the dents alone : - )
- thathndude 3y ago
  I’m a Rivian reservation holder, since June 2021. Likely going to pass on my reservation. But, make no mistake, I’m pro-Rivian, and am on the Rivian subreddit. Rivian owners and fans are quick to jump on any valid criticism of their beloved Rivian and downvote contrary thought into oblivion. Not surprised you’re getting hate for valid feedback.
- thelastgallon 3y ago
  > These car companies suck when it becomes to repairability. > I will stick with main stream brands like Toyota. Even if this is true (which is unlikely, the first reply says 8K - 12K, the truth is a lot more nuanced), the question we must ask is why do cars crash into each other? We must require all manufacturers to have Vehicle to Vehicle communication (beacons with chips and smarts are incredibly cheap) so they never crash into each other. Car accidents are the biggest cause of death until late 50s (then cardio vascular, etc become the biggest cause). Modern emergency medicine is incredibly good, there are a huge number of people disabled and injured (but alive!) from car accidents. IN 2021, 42,939 deaths[1]. If we just add up this decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K preventable deaths. Consider the injured and damaged vehicles. In 2019: 36,500 people, injured 4.5 million, and damaged 23 million vehicles[2]. In a decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K deaths, 45 million injuries and 230 million car repairs. And, this is just in US. Worldwide numbers are probably 10x! Body shop repairs are the costliest repairs even for minor scratches and dents. A car is a machine, the safe operation and liability should be on the manufacturers. Legacy car manufacturers are criminally negligent, they don't know how to do software or electronics. New electric companies, they have a lot of young talent in software+electronics, can build the V2V capabilities to make a car safer. [1] https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crashes-cost-america-billions-2019 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crashes-cost-am...
- dagmx 3y ago
  Toyota are also looking into switching to single casting bodies, so your comment both includes a fallacy and misinformation.
- gdubs 3y ago
  I'm curious how they hold up. Because, IRL, the Rivian is a beautiful vehicle, but the body has always struck me as 'precious' and for the kind of things I want a truck for, I'd be really hesitant to mess it up. By contrast, and old mid-90s pickup has the kinda body that a ding or two or ten isn't going to look all that terrible on.
tgtweak 3y ago
Kind of odd that it highlighted the need for chargers and the lengths they needed to go to (relying on hydrogen?) to complete the challenge. I'm all for EVs showing their strengths (and own several) but tethering to a mobile charging trailer that virtually nobody has access to kind of puts a huge asterisk on the entire thing. I'd love to see an EV-only rally that allows competitors to go faster or slower to optimize charge (faster = higher risk, more discharge) and, in that, force manufacturers and teams to actually innovate on the vehicle to make up for it. Put huge batteries and make it too heavy? It'll struggle in the mud and will likely blow tires. The function of motorsport (and ally, specifically) is to act as a proving ground for vehicles at the extreme end.
- wffurr 3y ago
  They also set up fuel depots for gas trucks. Doesn’t seem that different.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - leeoniya 3y ago
      from the article: > It took years to find the right partner, build out the infrastructure and secure the 800 kilograms of green hydrogen required for the 10-day event, she added. yeah, okay. just a nothingburger /s
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        A "2,120-kilometer [off-road race] course using only paper maps, compasses, and plotters" is hardly a normal use case. Trying to read anything into this for general utility to the public is silly.
      - m463 3y ago
        > But until this year, the company used diesel generators to power up the chargers. I imagine the green hydrogen was for PR, because otherwise you could say the EVs were diesel-powered. that said, I expect things like one motor per wheel that EV's can do will become pretty interesting off-road as time goes on.
Rapzid 3y ago
[flagged]
- xeromal 3y ago
  Daddddd, get off hacker news
bagels 3y ago
Okay, some interesting things about this competition: It looks like a gimmick rally, not a race. So not racing pace, and you get penalized for going too fast. The organizers provided a truck to charge the ev cars, nice. Logistics for gas are a lot more accessible, you need a service vehicle with fuel tanks in the bed. It is a woman only competition.
- lnsru 3y ago
  It’s nice. So it’s a perfect marketing event.
- Neil44 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularity_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularity_rally Regularity trials are about all round competency. The speed element is capped because the relationslip between speed and money is somewhat exponential. You would be amazed how quickly a little navigation error or mechanical issue can snowball and throw your whole rally off. You should not under-estimate the competency required to do well at these events.
  - bagels 3y ago
    I don't underestimate it. I've done stage rally. TSD just isn't the first thing that comes to me and when I read "off-road competition".
- demondemidi 3y ago
  Comment one: snark Comment two: snark Comment three in the context of the first two comments: …
  - bagels 3y ago
    None were intended as snark. Having participated in off road competitions myself, and having considered the logistics of ev charging, I wanted to know what kind of competition/class that evs would be able to compete in. When I hear "off-road competition" I imagine something like Baja or Dakar Rally. Also, the fact that the organizers take care of the charging/fuelling logistics for you is great. I'm used to having a crew to drive my service vehicle to transport my fuel between stages.
1970-01-01 3y ago
Most impressive is how it was with a stock truck.
zwaps 3y ago
How do y'all get excited for EVs? I know my next car will need to be an EV, but I just can't get excited for any of them. They all go fast in a straight line, are heavy and look like overweight SUV style. Otherwise, they seem eeringly similar. Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". I don't want to get a non-EV vehicle anymore, but the thought of shelling out money for one of these uniform soapboxes... I know I can just get the cheapest one because in terms of motors etc. it's all more or less the same. But then, I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy.
- kccqzy 3y ago
  This is a substance-less comment. How are the multitude of EVs on the market similar? If you really think so, do you also think all the cars (ICEs included) look eerily similar? If you answer yes to that as well, then I can empathize with you: these days cars do look quite similar[0] and I found that not everyone will notice the differences. But that's more reflective of the person than the car. (For example ask an average person to describe the differences between bicycles on the market and they likely can't either.) [0]: https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f
  - zwaps 3y ago
    I agree with you and this sort of SUV look is precisely the one I don't like. I guess my taste is just cursed.
  - Sophistifunk 3y ago
    GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey. If you're spending Ferrari money your options have never been better, but if you're a "car person" what's for sale right now to the middle class is incredibly depressing, with the exceptions of the 86 and the Z. Several manufacturers don't even make a sedan any more.
    - spiderice 3y ago
      > GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey If this is the case then I wouldn't call GP "right", because their complaint is very misleading.
LispSporks22 3y ago
How did the Tesla cyber truck do in this? I think 4 other EVs were there??
- kramerger 3y ago
  I don't think cybertruck is ready for that kind of test. One dying in the middle of the race would be bad for PR. There were 3-4 Rivians in the rally, second best currently at position 11: http://www.scoring.rebellerally.com/Display_Results.php?Page=Standings http://www.scoring.rebellerally.com/Display_Results.php?Page...
- diebeforei485 3y ago
  Cybertruck isn't released yet. I think they announced first deliveries start November 30 (the week after Thanksgiving).
sam_goody 3y ago
Next challenge is trying not to go bankrupt. Of course, that's a tougher race. ;)
jimnotgym 3y ago
I was reading this and imagining a world where the cyber truck had been a proper truck rather than a Mad-Max-Sci-Fi-Truck. There would now be two companies offering a serious alternative to a Fossil Truck...
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  > There would now be two companies offering a serious alternative to a Fossil Truck... There are. Ford has been selling the F150 Lightning for a while. And if you want to be generous, the Hummer EV counts as a pickup, even if it is a bit absurd. The Silverado is rumored to be shipping to fleet customers now, but who knows when we'll see it reaching consumers.
specialist 3y ago
Tangent: Are there any rough guides for kilometer per kWh? I briefly gathered some data, intending to infer the relationship. Model, curb weight, battery size, estimated range. Sadly, I apparently didn't save that notebook. IIRC the BYD Dolphin is cheapest (~$22k), lightest model in production. Weighs ~1700 kg, has ~30 kWh battery, has ~400 km range. My conclusion (guesstimate) was: a converted 1980s VW Rabbit/Golf @ 750 kg w/ 10 kHw would likely have a 100-150 km range. More than enough for my casual city driving. (Hardware store, dog park, errands.) Cheap Li batteries ~$140 per kWh. A running (ugly) Rabbit is ~$3k. So $1.5k for a beater, $2k to fix stuff, $1500 for battery pack, and $??k for the conversion kit (motor, transmission, brakes, BCM, etc). I'd happily pay < $10k for converted Rabbit. Some kids could make a decent living doing BEV conversions. (I have a few acquaintances that each specialize in a niche classic car. Saab, Volvo, Fiats, Alfa Romeo, etc. Each of them has a backlog of work. My 17yo nephew is restoring a Jaguar and has already been asked to do work.)
nomy99 3y ago
There are 100's of them parked in a lot by the queensboro bridge in queens, NYC

226 points by dkobia 3y ago

Just be careful not to dent quarter panels on a rivian. It’s something like $40k to replace. Normally a $2k-$3k job on any other pick up truck. These car companies suck when it becomes to repairability. Edit: I’m not going to argue with naysayers below, this dude was quoted $41k but was able to PDR(https://www.thedrive.com/news/41000-rivian-fender-bender-actually-just-needed-paintless-dent-removal https://www.thedrive.com/news/41000-rivian-fender-bender-act...). Tesla repairs with giga casting are also a lot more expensive than similar “regular” cars. This isn’t an issue of unibody design. My family owned a body shop and I painted cars for few years. I will stick with main stream brands like Toyota.

almost_usual 3y ago
Yeah, insurance will not pick that up if it was caused while off roading. I’m guessing taking your Rivian off road will also void the warranty. If you off road it’s good to know how to repair your rig.
- codeTired 3y ago
  It’s best to off-road in a reasonably built car, like a Land Cruiser or a bronco.
- mikeryan 3y ago
  It won’t void your warranty. The Rivian was designed, and is, an incredibly competent off road vehicle. It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it and a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road.
  - almost_usual 3y ago
    > It won’t void your warranty. Wow, that is truly surprising. I’d be more worried about the driver if I were Rivian? What stops someone from driving through a creek and submerging their truck? Damaging their undercarriage on a rock? Sliding into a tree? etc. > The Rivian was designed, and is, an incredibly competent off road vehicle. It looks like it doesn’t have locking differentials but that’s usually overkill. > It literally has an Off-Road drive mode with 4 different setups within it I’ll need to read more about the “Off Road” drive modes. It sounds similar to the Tacoma’s “Crawl Control”. > a built in air compressor in the truck need for adjusting your tire pressure when you take it off road. An air compressor is nice but you can pick up a Tsunami Air Compressor and a tire deflator for like $130.
    - wkipling 3y ago
      Off-road cars have limitations. I'll bet the Rivian just like other 4wds will have a maximum wading depth for water crossings.
      - defrost 3y ago
        If the door seals are good there's not a maximum wading depth, rather a maximum time paddle boating in water before seals give way | river current moves the 4x4 too far. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC5ld79joIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC5ld79joIA Note that the Land Cruiser is bouyant in the water and not touching ground.
        arjvik 3y ago
        How did the driver turn??
        defrost 3y ago
        Back wheels spinning in water create weak driving force forward. Front wheels can turn and provide rudimentary front rudder effect wrt force from rear wheels pushing forward. If 4xwheel drive was engaged the front wheels wouls also be driven and provide a "clawing forwards" directional force. It's not the ideal boat, but it floats and works up to a point (as seen). With the engine weight forward it's entirely possible the front wheels were occassionally touching down when over the pan of the crossing. When the vehichle went to the left of the crossing it's unlikely the front wheels had any contact as the crossing (unflooded) is typically higher than the river bed on either side.
- caseyf7 3y ago
  Rivian insurance covers off-road use.
Retric 3y ago
Probably closer to 8-14k if you’re not willing to leave the dent. The famed 42k bill was for a rear end collision that caused more damage than it looked like. Cars are much safer today but crumple zones mean minor fender benders result in huge repair bills. However, they are also a major part of the 90+% reduction in vehicle fatalities per mile over the last 100 years. “They took the R1T to a certified Rivian body shop who said the entire rear quarter panel, as well as some tailgate internals, needed replacing. The total cost of replacing an entire body panel and some tailgate bits was reportedly just over $14,000.” https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns-into-42000-repair-bill https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns...
- Moto7451 3y ago
  I was rear ended about 8 years ago. I was in a lane that is parking most of the day (like when I stopped) and no stopping/anti-congestion during rush hour. My Camaro was hit by a person traveling at least at the 45MPH speed limit. They were on their phone and thankfully were so angry they unintentionally confessed it all to the police office taking the report. I ended up not paying a cent to fix the car, but I did get a copy of the bill. All in all the cost to repair it was in excess of $18,000 from a third party shop that didn’t do a great job on the finish. That was only $5k less than the Kelly Bluebook value for my car at that point in time. In short, it costs a lot to repair crash damage. That’s something people probably don’t think about too deeply if they have comprehensive coverage and pay just their deductible.
  - codeTired 3y ago
    A dent is much different than a 45mph crash. At that speed you have to replace half of the car. We have done those at our shop on an occasion. It’s rare as it’s a pricy repair.
    - Moto7451 3y ago
      It actually wasn’t far off from the “one panel” as the 5th Gen Camaro has a long panel that stretches from the bumper to the tip of the A Pillar. Otherwise it was a bumper cover, crash structure (which is disposable above 10MPH) and a trunk lid. The biggest cost was the panel.
bastawhiz 3y ago
$40k is just incorrect. My buddy did exactly this and he's facing a bill of $14k. Which is still outrageous, but like three times less.
- holoduke 3y ago
  I bought my 20 year old infiniti for 14k, 10 years ago. I think most people will be in serious issues when they suffer a 14k bill for a fender. I think if do a large overhaul including a full repaint on my car it would cost less than 14k
  - fkyoureadthedoc 3y ago
    Most people will just suffer the insurance deductible though.
    - bdavisx 3y ago
      If your vehicle costs that much for a "simple" repair you're going to be suffering from expensive insurance too.
      - AshleyGrant 3y ago
        So... pretty much everyone these days?
- smcl 3y ago
  It's a third of $40k, "three times less" than $40k would be -$80k
  - dag11 3y ago
    "X times less" is actually a technically meaningless statement, but colloquially would mean 1/X. There's nothing to be gained by being pedantic over that
    - 3y ago
gnicholas 3y ago
Does this mean they are incredibly expensive to insure?
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  A buddy close to underwriting heaves giant sighs and mutters darkly when anyone in his book of individual policies wants to insure one because yes.
  - reducesuffering 3y ago
    Is that because after barely scraping by $80k or an $800/mth payment, they freak out why there’s another $300/mth?
    - guhidalg 3y ago
      Well at least the first two are paying for an asset, whereas the insurance payments are paying for something nebulous that you may or may not need. The ideal insurance premium is $0/month.
  - seattle_spring 3y ago
    Er... I own one and it is maybe 10% more to insure than my previous Subaru.
    - gnicholas 3y ago
      How is that possible, just given the sheer cost difference? Or is most of your insurance policy covering liability (for if you hit other people), as opposed to the risk of damage to your own car?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - jinushaun 3y ago
        It’s true. They are surprisingly cheap to insure. The current theory is that they are new and insurance companies don’t have enough data yet. Everyone expects rates to skyrocket as more $40k repair bills come in.
_ea1k 3y ago
Despite claims to the contrary, I haven't really seen evidence of this with Tesla. The giga casts have pretty conventional crush structures ahead and behind them. It seems like the kind of crashes that'd cause massive costs are big enough to be massively costly either way. The Rivian case is a bit of a head scratcher. They made some truly odd choices that are making fairly simple repairs much harder than necessary. It is obvious they are new to this.
- skullone 3y ago
  First to market, but with beginner mistakes. I'll wait for a more mature EV truck myself. I want a simple box frame, with a body on frame, nothing fancy. Just pure utilitarian EV truck like a base F150 but with a battery.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    I've heard that EV trucks are mostly unibodies given the structure they need to protect and support the battery underneath. But I think the F-150 lightning is simple body on frame (as you said, although I think you are confused that this doesn't exist yet?), and the new Silverado EV will be neither unibody nor body on frame, whatever that means.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Unibody and body on frame have different pros and cons. Most people buying a truck want a unibody. The F150 lightening is only available in the crew cab version - you can get cars with as much cargo space. If you are actually hauling heavy things, or towing a trailer then a frame is strong and better able to handle that. However if you are only hauling people with some light luggage then a unibody is plenty strong and betters resists twisting forces making for a nicer ride.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    I think F-150 Lightning is the closest to what you are looking for. But it has its own type of beginner's mistakes with the batteries. The charge curve isn't great, if that matters to you.
wise_young_man 3y ago
What does this have to do with them winning a contest? It comes across as argument baiting.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- codeTired 3y ago
  Good thing to keep in mind imo.
aitchnyu 3y ago
If car bumpers are made immune to parking lot speed hits, will they necessarily be worse at crash safety? Looking at how 4m cars have more complex bodies than older Porsches and pack lights at each corner of the bumpers.
dagurp 3y ago
It's s truck, leave the dents alone : - )
thathndude 3y ago
I’m a Rivian reservation holder, since June 2021. Likely going to pass on my reservation. But, make no mistake, I’m pro-Rivian, and am on the Rivian subreddit. Rivian owners and fans are quick to jump on any valid criticism of their beloved Rivian and downvote contrary thought into oblivion. Not surprised you’re getting hate for valid feedback.
thelastgallon 3y ago
> These car companies suck when it becomes to repairability. > I will stick with main stream brands like Toyota. Even if this is true (which is unlikely, the first reply says 8K - 12K, the truth is a lot more nuanced), the question we must ask is why do cars crash into each other? We must require all manufacturers to have Vehicle to Vehicle communication (beacons with chips and smarts are incredibly cheap) so they never crash into each other. Car accidents are the biggest cause of death until late 50s (then cardio vascular, etc become the biggest cause). Modern emergency medicine is incredibly good, there are a huge number of people disabled and injured (but alive!) from car accidents. IN 2021, 42,939 deaths[1]. If we just add up this decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K preventable deaths. Consider the injured and damaged vehicles. In 2019: 36,500 people, injured 4.5 million, and damaged 23 million vehicles[2]. In a decade (2020 - 2030), we are looking at 400K deaths, 45 million injuries and 230 million car repairs. And, this is just in US. Worldwide numbers are probably 10x! Body shop repairs are the costliest repairs even for minor scratches and dents. A car is a machine, the safe operation and liability should be on the manufacturers. Legacy car manufacturers are criminally negligent, they don't know how to do software or electronics. New electric companies, they have a lot of young talent in software+electronics, can build the V2V capabilities to make a car safer. [1] https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state... [2] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crashes-cost-america-billions-2019 https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crashes-cost-am...
dagmx 3y ago
Toyota are also looking into switching to single casting bodies, so your comment both includes a fallacy and misinformation.
gdubs 3y ago
I'm curious how they hold up. Because, IRL, the Rivian is a beautiful vehicle, but the body has always struck me as 'precious' and for the kind of things I want a truck for, I'd be really hesitant to mess it up. By contrast, and old mid-90s pickup has the kinda body that a ding or two or ten isn't going to look all that terrible on.

tgtweak 3y ago

Kind of odd that it highlighted the need for chargers and the lengths they needed to go to (relying on hydrogen?) to complete the challenge. I'm all for EVs showing their strengths (and own several) but tethering to a mobile charging trailer that virtually nobody has access to kind of puts a huge asterisk on the entire thing. I'd love to see an EV-only rally that allows competitors to go faster or slower to optimize charge (faster = higher risk, more discharge) and, in that, force manufacturers and teams to actually innovate on the vehicle to make up for it. Put huge batteries and make it too heavy? It'll struggle in the mud and will likely blow tires. The function of motorsport (and ally, specifically) is to act as a proving ground for vehicles at the extreme end.

wffurr 3y ago
They also set up fuel depots for gas trucks. Doesn’t seem that different.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - leeoniya 3y ago
    from the article: > It took years to find the right partner, build out the infrastructure and secure the 800 kilograms of green hydrogen required for the 10-day event, she added. yeah, okay. just a nothingburger /s
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      A "2,120-kilometer [off-road race] course using only paper maps, compasses, and plotters" is hardly a normal use case. Trying to read anything into this for general utility to the public is silly.
    - m463 3y ago
      > But until this year, the company used diesel generators to power up the chargers. I imagine the green hydrogen was for PR, because otherwise you could say the EVs were diesel-powered. that said, I expect things like one motor per wheel that EV's can do will become pretty interesting off-road as time goes on.

Rapzid 3y ago

[flagged]

xeromal 3y ago
Daddddd, get off hacker news

bagels 3y ago

Okay, some interesting things about this competition: It looks like a gimmick rally, not a race. So not racing pace, and you get penalized for going too fast. The organizers provided a truck to charge the ev cars, nice. Logistics for gas are a lot more accessible, you need a service vehicle with fuel tanks in the bed. It is a woman only competition.

lnsru 3y ago
It’s nice. So it’s a perfect marketing event.
Neil44 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularity_rally https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regularity_rally Regularity trials are about all round competency. The speed element is capped because the relationslip between speed and money is somewhat exponential. You would be amazed how quickly a little navigation error or mechanical issue can snowball and throw your whole rally off. You should not under-estimate the competency required to do well at these events.
- bagels 3y ago
  I don't underestimate it. I've done stage rally. TSD just isn't the first thing that comes to me and when I read "off-road competition".
demondemidi 3y ago
Comment one: snark Comment two: snark Comment three in the context of the first two comments: …
- bagels 3y ago
  None were intended as snark. Having participated in off road competitions myself, and having considered the logistics of ev charging, I wanted to know what kind of competition/class that evs would be able to compete in. When I hear "off-road competition" I imagine something like Baja or Dakar Rally. Also, the fact that the organizers take care of the charging/fuelling logistics for you is great. I'm used to having a crew to drive my service vehicle to transport my fuel between stages.

1970-01-01 3y ago

Most impressive is how it was with a stock truck.

zwaps 3y ago

How do y'all get excited for EVs? I know my next car will need to be an EV, but I just can't get excited for any of them. They all go fast in a straight line, are heavy and look like overweight SUV style. Otherwise, they seem eeringly similar. Any sort of sound and feel is "generated". I don't want to get a non-EV vehicle anymore, but the thought of shelling out money for one of these uniform soapboxes... I know I can just get the cheapest one because in terms of motors etc. it's all more or less the same. But then, I'd rather get somehow excited for a product I am going to buy.

kccqzy 3y ago
This is a substance-less comment. How are the multitude of EVs on the market similar? If you really think so, do you also think all the cars (ICEs included) look eerily similar? If you answer yes to that as well, then I can empathize with you: these days cars do look quite similar[0] and I found that not everyone will notice the differences. But that's more reflective of the person than the car. (For example ask an average person to describe the differences between bicycles on the market and they likely can't either.) [0]: https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f https://ade3.medium.com/driving-conformity-49ffb2b1ff9f
- zwaps 3y ago
  I agree with you and this sort of SUV look is precisely the one I don't like. I guess my taste is just cursed.
- Sophistifunk 3y ago
  GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey. If you're spending Ferrari money your options have never been better, but if you're a "car person" what's for sale right now to the middle class is incredibly depressing, with the exceptions of the 86 and the Z. Several manufacturers don't even make a sedan any more.
  - spiderice 3y ago
    > GP is right, but it's all cars that have become extermely samey If this is the case then I wouldn't call GP "right", because their complaint is very misleading.

LispSporks22 3y ago

How did the Tesla cyber truck do in this? I think 4 other EVs were there??

kramerger 3y ago
I don't think cybertruck is ready for that kind of test. One dying in the middle of the race would be bad for PR. There were 3-4 Rivians in the rally, second best currently at position 11: http://www.scoring.rebellerally.com/Display_Results.php?Page=Standings http://www.scoring.rebellerally.com/Display_Results.php?Page...
diebeforei485 3y ago
Cybertruck isn't released yet. I think they announced first deliveries start November 30 (the week after Thanksgiving).

sam_goody 3y ago

Next challenge is trying not to go bankrupt. Of course, that's a tougher race. ;)

jimnotgym 3y ago

I was reading this and imagining a world where the cyber truck had been a proper truck rather than a Mad-Max-Sci-Fi-Truck. There would now be two companies offering a serious alternative to a Fossil Truck...

rootusrootus 3y ago
> There would now be two companies offering a serious alternative to a Fossil Truck... There are. Ford has been selling the F150 Lightning for a while. And if you want to be generous, the Hummer EV counts as a pickup, even if it is a bit absurd. The Silverado is rumored to be shipping to fleet customers now, but who knows when we'll see it reaching consumers.

specialist 3y ago

Tangent: Are there any rough guides for kilometer per kWh? I briefly gathered some data, intending to infer the relationship. Model, curb weight, battery size, estimated range. Sadly, I apparently didn't save that notebook. IIRC the BYD Dolphin is cheapest (~$22k), lightest model in production. Weighs ~1700 kg, has ~30 kWh battery, has ~400 km range. My conclusion (guesstimate) was: a converted 1980s VW Rabbit/Golf @ 750 kg w/ 10 kHw would likely have a 100-150 km range. More than enough for my casual city driving. (Hardware store, dog park, errands.) Cheap Li batteries ~$140 per kWh. A running (ugly) Rabbit is ~$3k. So $1.5k for a beater, $2k to fix stuff, $1500 for battery pack, and $??k for the conversion kit (motor, transmission, brakes, BCM, etc). I'd happily pay < $10k for converted Rabbit. Some kids could make a decent living doing BEV conversions. (I have a few acquaintances that each specialize in a niche classic car. Saab, Volvo, Fiats, Alfa Romeo, etc. Each of them has a backlog of work. My 17yo nephew is restoring a Jaguar and has already been asked to do work.)

nomy99 3y ago

There are 100's of them parked in a lot by the queensboro bridge in queens, NYC