9 ms·
Did any of the bad effects of not having net neutrality actually occur when it was gone? Did ISPs throttle competition? I haven’t seen any reports of this hap
by pyuser583 3y ago
Did any of the bad effects of not having net neutrality actually occur when it was gone?
Did ISPs throttle competition?
I haven’t seen any reports of this happening. I haven’t seen any studies showing this happening systematically.
I’m woefully uninformed, so I really would like to hear more about this. What has been happening these past few years?
- malfist 3y agoDid you upgrade your cell phone plan so you could have 1080p video on YouTube? That's an example of non-neutral net
- pyuser583 3y agoNo, I did not. My cell data plan has never preferred one bit over the other.
- malfist 3y agoLucky you, you must not be on Verizon, AT&T or TMobile
- lotsofpulp 3y agoIf you are in the US, there is always a ranking of bits on a mobile network. Perhaps not by your plan specifically, but by the network operator. https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/comments/tn4733/qci_level_explained_2022_march_lower_qci_is_better/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NoContract/comments/tn4733/qci_leve... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QoS_Class_Identifier
- mmanfrin 3y agoEvery major plan I've seen has traffic shaping or throttling for streaming, even Google Fi itself for Youtube, their own property.
- Longlius 3y agoThat's because Google doesn't own the Google Fi infrastructure. They use T-Mobile's.
- criddell 3y agoI'm on TMobile in part because I got a free Netflix and MLB.tv. Is that an example?
- ericmay 3y agoYea that's probably an example - those companies get preferential treatment on the network w.r.t traffic and so competitors have a harder time entering the market.
- criddell 3y agoBut if they simply give you a free subscription without any kind traffic shenanigans, it's not a net neutrality issue?
- ericmay 3y agoProbably not unless there is something I'm not considering
- zamalek 3y ago> without any kind traffic shenanigans, it's not a net neutrality issue? Yep. But they do rate-limit people: https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/activate-hd-video-streaming https://www.t-mobile.com/support/plans-features/activate-hd-... If you're on the top plan then you haven't experienced it. The irony is that T-Mobile was one of the ISPs throwing support behind net-neutrality, and now they are one of the most aggressive net discriminators.
- l33t7332273 3y agoI don’t think bundling other paid services counts. It’s only if the ISP treats the traffic to/from those paid services differently that you run afoul of net neutrality.
- plussed_reader 3y agoThe term you're dancing around is zero-rating, and it is viewed unfavorably. https://dig.watch/topics/network-neutrality#:~:text=Zero%2Drating%20is%20similarly%20frowned,the%20principle%20of%20net%20neutrality https://dig.watch/topics/network-neutrality#:~:text=Zero%2Dr....
- talent_deprived 3y agoDid you ever want to fly first class versus coach?
- falcolas 3y agoThere have been many reports of ISPs overwriting ads and adding content to non-https content. Also bundled content on mobile providers not counting against caps, etc. Many also lie on speedtests, though I don't know if that counts.
- edmundsauto 3y agoHow do they lie on speed tests? I thought that measured actual data throughput.
- 404mm 3y agoI assume they can prioritize speed test traffic. The Volkswagen method.
- falcolas 3y agoYes, exactly this.
- smegger001 3y agoI have had my internet dragging to crawl open speed rest and suddenly all of my tabs finish loading and have decent speed for the next 30 minutes just to slow down again. I am considering making a cron job to run wget to load speedtest home page every 20minutes
- etrautmann 3y agoPresumably, an ISP might detect if a test was being run and unthrottle data speeds for the test, analogous to the Volkswagon emission testing scandal. edit: strange to post this and find a second post with exactly the same two points submitted while writing. I guess my thoughts aren't that special
- KETHERCORTEX 3y agoSimplest way to do this: good speed on Speedtest, rubbish everywhere else. Also, by default Speedtest tests the connection from you to the nearest testing node. A lot of times it's the one hosted by your ISP, so the measured speed is the speed inside the ISP's local network and not the speed from you to outer Internet.
- xwdv 3y agoNo. It was a nothingburger.
- throwawayqqq11 3y agoAny financial lever will get pulled, its just a question of the right enshitifiers in charge, so just a matter of time. Expecting anything else is naive imo.
- calgarymicro 3y agoWorth noting that California's net neutrality law[0] probably stymied most efforts by ISPs to start prioritizing traffic nationwide. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_Protection_and_Net_Neutrality_Act_of_2018 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Internet_Consumer_P...
- l33t7332273 3y agoI thought the internet was purely a federal law domain. It looks like this law was challenged on those grounds, but the challenge lasted until after Biden was elected and the suit dropped.
- bojo 3y agoI think the point is that California, a sizable and notable state, implemented a law that affects everyone regardless of federal law.
- ilyt 3y agoAlso see emission standards.
- connicpu 3y agoExactly. Even if their laws only technically apply within California, no car maker is going to build a car that cannot be legally sold in the single largest market in the US. It gets even more difficult with the internet as there are few internet providers who don't have at least some kind of connection to California and therefore fall under its jurisdiction, and ensuring you only apply prioritization to packets that don't involve California is extremely tough.
- mywittyname 3y agoThese emissions regulations don't cover just California, but most of New England, the Pacific, and the mid-Atlantic states as well. I think New York has a way to "fast track" new emissions laws from California, so that the states are kept in sync. "California cars" were a thing in the early days when emissions were difficult to comply with. Even modern cars come with a "50-state compliant emissions" line item on the window sticker. If California ratcheted up emissions standards too high, there's the possibility that such segregation could emerge again, particularly when it comes to trucks. There are already several trim levels of trucks that are specific to Texas, because the market there is so big. I could see a truck coming with a sticker that says, "RAM TRX can not be registered or sold in CA, WI, NY, [...] due to emissions restrictions."
- ericmay 3y agoIf nothing has happened then it's a good reason to make sure it stays that way - the law won't have an effect either way right? ;)
- RHSeeger 3y agoMy phone plan (Verizon, common plan) limits the resolution of videos I can watch on my phone.
- darknavi 3y agoIgnorant here, do these FCC rules only apply to residential ISPs or do they also apply to cellular networks?
- supertrope 3y agoThese proposed rules apply to both wireline and cellular broadband. See item 60 on page 35 https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397309A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-397309A1.pdf. The original Net Neutrality rules exempted cellular. The FCC used Title I regulatory authority hoping to use a "light touch" least ISPs sued and an appeals court voided the regulation with the rationale the FCC did not have the authority to do as long it continued to classify broadband as Title I "information service" instead of "telecommunications." When the Net Neutrality regulations were re-done the FCC re-classified broadband as Title II "telecommunications" for more solid legal authority. When the FCC changed to Republican majority they repealed the regulation and reclassified broadband back to Title I.
- welder 3y agoNet Neutrality Violations: A Brief History https://www.freepress.net/blog/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history https://www.freepress.net/blog/net-neutrality-violations-bri... Ask HN: Internet magically gets faster when opening speedtest? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31062799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31062799 T-Mobile begins blocking iPhone users from enabling iCloud Private Relay in US https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29880073 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29880073
- ezfe 3y agoThe T-Mobile thing was eventually deduced to be: >T-Mobile’s situation is a little more complex: most customers shouldn’t have any issues with iCloud Private Relay. But those who use content filtering services (like the carrier’s Family Controls) won’t be able to use iCloud Private Relay, the carrier tells us. Which is reasonable, since a content filtering service is incompatible with a VPN
- downWidOutaFite 3y agoI think Tier 1 ISP Hurricane Electric blocking traffic to Kiwi Farms because they don't like the content would qualify: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/isps-should-not-police-online-speech-no-matter-how-awful-it https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/08/isps-should-not-police...
- yoyohello13 3y agoRelying on ISPs to not do evil is a losing strategy.
- dfxm12 3y agoThere was this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires#Verizon_Wireless_data_throttling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_wildfires#Veri...
- shagmin 3y agoI think other comments have already answered this. But in the back of my mind I imagine if companies abused it much worse than they did, they would've gotten much more unwarranted attention, and it was already deeply hated amongst tech savvy people and ISPs are already some of the most hated companies in general. Taking advantage while they could have would have dug that hole yet even deeper and would only make it more likely that a law would be created sooner rather than later making it illegal, so it just wasn't worth the investment on any meaningful scale.
- tlhunter 3y agoOn United flights I can use Facebook Messenger for free but not Signal.
- LightHugger 3y agoyes, they extorted netflix and other big providers into paying them or else they'd use the lack of net neutrality to basically delete their service. Which ends up meaning you pay more for streaming services like netflix and it's competitors.
- m463 3y agoDirectly, I think every ISP that allowed unlimited traffic for their own streaming media service while counting third party streaming services against a cap.
- wredue 3y agoDo you trust providers without net neutrality codified in to law? I sure as shit do not.
- s3p 3y agoRemember the Verizon zombie cookie? https://www.wired.com/2016/03/verizons-zombie-cookies-will-finally-easier-kill/ https://www.wired.com/2016/03/verizons-zombie-cookies-will-f...
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y agowell I didn't have caps before net neutrality, so there's that.