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Atlassian prepares to abandon on-prem server products

202 points by jjgreen 3y ago

crabbone 3y ago
I anticipate the horror stories of trying to import JIRA databases into new bug trackers when these news hit the fan. Things are going to get spicy.
jaylittle 3y ago
One day the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. Until then, those of us who disagree with putting absolutely everything into the cloud will just have to sit back and bide our time.
- lucideer 3y ago
  > will just have to sit back and bide our time I doubt that day will ever come without a significant number of potential customers stubbornly opting to go it alone with DIY on-prem alternatives (or at least somewhat SaaS-less - e.g. turnkey-on-IaaS or similar) in the interim. Though I guess that "stubborness" might become more likely as more & more stagnation & inflexibility of cloud SaaS reveals itself to customers over the coming years. My company's recently been pushed off JIRA on-prem to their cloud offering & the migration has already been an absolute travesty. Any gaps there might have been in the near-universal hatred of JIRA have been thoroughly wiped out by now.
  - jjgreen 3y ago
    I'd agree, lock-in and subscriptions are too tasty a target to give up voluntarily
  - msla 3y ago
    Or, you know, a SaaS cloud company could go belly-up and lose a ton of customer data with absolutely no backup or other compensation plan. "Suing the corpse" only works if the corpse hasn't already been looted. If that happens five or six times, it might swing the public perception.
  - gpderetta 3y ago
    For many companies anything but on-prem is not an option. edit: and in fact the DC edition is still an option.
- petercooper 3y ago
  37signals is certainly looking in the other direction: https://once.com/ https://once.com/ .. though more at the smaller end of the market, not enterprise apps.
  - raghavankl 3y ago
    But they have also announced that Basecamp will always be a subscription product, which doesn’t fit well with their once.com story.
    - petercooper 3y ago
      Can't imagine it's good business to scare the existing customers away.. ;-) But yeah, I think this is more dipping a toe into the water. They seem to be focusing on entirely new products with a reasonable small scope. It's interesting to see it happen, though, and they're moderately influential.
- kgeist 3y ago
  Russia is probably an outlier here, but the pendulum here is swinging back to on-prem, especially if the cloud provider is located in a different country. (Example: former McDonalds recently bought an on-prem solution from our company, although we have a cloud version, too). Today you're on good terms with a cloud provider, tomorrow the politics go 360° and all your data is lost. Probably not not as urgent in the first world, but with the current segmentation of the Internet happening (e.g. restrictions in EU), I wouldn't be so certain about it.
  - kgeist 3y ago
    >360 I meant 180, of course :)
  - cvalka 3y ago
    ELMA :-)
    - kgeist 3y ago
      If you mean Elma CRM, then no, we have a different product.
- originalvichy 3y ago
  Can’t say I agree. I believe the method of distributing software historically was limited due to no easy access to public computing. Now the software distributor can more easily provide the software to the customer. If ”cloud” was available in the 90s, I doubt that self hosting would have been as popular. Not saying its a wrong choice, just a matter of convenience.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Organizations will do whatever they think is cheaper. Convenience doesn’t matter. The manager will say that SaaS costs half as much and then we get the direction to move. When the pendulum swings to “On-Premise will cost half as much”, we will get the direction to move back.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  Not gonna happen unless a new server OS arrives that's significantly easier to use than Linux. The core diff between on-prem and cloud isn't where the data is hosted. It's that in one case someone else handles UNIX BS and in the other case you do. Get a MacOS-equivalent level of usability for servers in a form that isn't rent it by the hour, and you could see such a migration, but what's the incentive for anyone to build or support that when people are willing to pay so much for cloud services?
  - __d 3y ago
    Curious what you see as the "UNIX BS" in running a server? Is it the need to CLI? Or just the number of knobs that you can frob? Too many choices? Interested in how such a server system might look.
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      Almost total absence of GUIs and proper documentation. A big part of why people pay for AWS and friends is not instant scalability or even the fancy features, but simply because clouds wrap a half-way decent GUI around high level server oriented tasks combined with an actual task focused user guide. To compare, try comparing the docs and GUI help you get deploying a simple serverless app to Lambda+RDS vs configuring a Linux box with systemd, apache/nginx, SSL termination, postgres, borgbackup or whatever other stack you want to use. The difference is night and day. The systemd docs alone are classic Linux BS culture. UNIX sysadmin is complicated in very fundamental and deep ways for people who don't have a gray beard. I know how to do it but I don't enjoy it, and I had to recently teach a friend of mine how to do basic tasks. He's a pro software dev with years of experience incl at Google but sysadmin was never something he needed to do. Luckily now ChatGPT can help a lot with the missing usability.
      - __d 3y ago
        Thanks for sharing that. I think the documentation aspect is often overlooked. Even RedHat's subscriber-only documentation is ... quite dense, and yet, not very deep.
kortilla 3y ago
It’s a shame that the options for orgs that don’t want Internet dependencies dwindle by the day. The poorly connected and security conscious get left behind again.
deleted 3y ago
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proxysna 3y ago
Last year I was second guessing myself if migration to Gitlab EE from Jira, Bitbucket and Jenkins would be worth it, as it was a massive shift for my org. Maybe purchasing a DC version of Atlassian products would be a better alternative, but after short look into invoices and licensing it was decided to go forward with Gitlab. Still not a big fan of how stiff Yaml pipelines feel in Gitlab CI and that tickets for what seems like a simple feature [1] hang around for years, but it is nice. Developers like it, and i am happy that they are happy. [1] https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/-/issues/2658 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/-/issues/2658
- neilv 3y ago
  At a couple startups, I've promoted a mantra of "everything goes into GitLab". If some information is not in GitLab Git and CI, it should be in GitLab Issues or (ugly) GitLab Wiki. Those 4 words avoid a lot of problems. Including avoiding a proliferation of silo'd and leaked and lost information in numerous different SaaSes, apps/programs, and storage services that people will tend to do by default.
  - dnsmichi 3y ago
    GitLab team member here. Thanks for sharing. > If some information is not in GitLab Git and CI, it should be in GitLab Issues or (ugly) GitLab Wiki. Tip if you have not used it yet: The rich text editor can help with visual editing issues and the wiki: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/rich_text_editor.html https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/rich_text_editor.html
- preisschild 3y ago
  Are you using the docker executor, or Kubernetes? For Kubernetes, we found that GitLab has a tool that automatically does that: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/ci-cd/gitlab-runner-pod-cleanup/ https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/ci-cd/gitlab-runner-pod-cleanu...
  - proxysna 3y ago
    It was just an example of a number of small things and issues, that we were not expecting to be an issue by the 15th major release, but in general it's ok. We implemented a workaround.
steveBK123 3y ago
Jira/Confluence are two products that have gotten markedly slower and slower over time and as they've moved into the cloud. I observe load times that remind me of the 90s sometimes using their cloud apps. Incredible they are killing on-prem, but maybe it makes it harder to compare to the slow as molasses cloud offering that way?
- throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
  I have the opposite experience; many if not most of the features have gotten faster as the features have expanded in capability
  - consp 3y ago
    > as the features have expanded in capability Yet I still cannot import anything like in the old editor (e.g. markdown), adding images in lists was added two years after forcing switching to the new editor and you still cannot continue numbered lists in another item line and have to start over. Extensions exist to do this but these things should be standard in any editor.
    - RHSeeger 3y ago
      The new editor in Jira is drives me nuts. They replaced a perfectly good, functional markdown editor with the current POS, and it causes me problems nearly every single day.
      - ChatGTP 3y ago
        Atlassian stuggles with editors like no other company I've seen. I don't remember the last time I had a problem with an editor except for using any Atlassian product. Not sure what the fuck they do, but they really seem to have trouble with this aspect of their products. Which is ironic because their products are essentially CRUD products with a heavy emphasis on data entry. Like, if anything out their products needs to work well, it's the editors.
HHad3 3y ago
Using Atlassian cloud products is a business risk. They previously let customers sit for weeks without access to their data [1]. Cloud-hosted products do get early patches for unsecured /setup routes though [2], so there's that. At this point the decision has been made in our org to firewall their products off the internet and internal networks, and migrate to something else by 2024. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atlassian https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atlassian [2] https://confluence.atlassian.com/security/cve-2023-22515-privilege-escalation-vulnerability-in-confluence-data-center-and-server-1295682276.html https://confluence.atlassian.com/security/cve-2023-22515-pri...
- kwanbix 3y ago
  While Jira does many many things right, it is also horrible in so many ways. What options are you evaluating?
  - preisschild 3y ago
    Not OP, but we moved to Gitlab Issues. Project Managers are missing some features, but the devs (including me) like it a lot more due to integrating so well with PRs/commits.
    - wdfx 3y ago
      The problem with this though, is that commonly a requirement (ticket) does not map exactly to a single code repository. I feel that it is breaking encapsulation in a sense to be dealing with issues at the repo level. The repo and the code are implementation details of the business requirements. The tickets describing requirements belong at the next level up of abstraction?
      - peanball 3y ago
        There are issues at group / org level in GitLab that can span such tasks.
        3y ago
itronitron 3y ago
I've always found Jira particularly frustrating compared to other options, so I consider this great news.
Mandatum 3y ago
Thankful GitLab EE exists. What a nightmare for any companies who deal with M&A, finance, healthcare, etc. Sure, you can trust cloud providers not to get hacked. But I’d sooner have the option to unplug the Ethernet.
UweSchmidt 3y ago
Any alternatives that you've used successfully in medium or large organizations?
- zelon88 3y ago
  HESK. https://www.hesk.com/ https://www.hesk.com/
botulidze 3y ago
The problem with Jira is that we don't have many alternatives at enterprise level. Maybe for smaller teams (<1000 engineers) something else is at table. It's also interesting neither of FAANG - except for Netflix - are using Jira, they are all on something home-grown AFAIK. I had a lot of hopes for Github Issues [0] but since they announced the product on last year's Universe event, there were not many news. Maybe this November they will come back with an update. At this point, I feel Jira is like WordPress. It maybe slow and overbloated, but you can have absolutely any plugin and/or integration you can think of. [0] https://github.com/features/issues https://github.com/features/issues
- buro9 3y ago
  Grafana Labs is using Github Projects and Issues for ~500 engineers that we have and the extended FOSS community contributing to projects like Grafana, Loki, Mimir, Tempo, and Pyroscope. It is possible to do, I ack that we're below your 1k engineers threshold (though the OSS side is way above), but the problem isn't Github it's whether you (as an org) dictate a single SDLC that you enforce via a tool and as we aren't doing that and we're not yet encountering difficulties (beyond culture shock when people onboard and can't find what they're used to elsewhere, being Jira). By working with autonomy, and in fact embracing OSS and the community (meaning we can't hide info in internal Jira instances), it's easy to avoid Jira. That's the rub though, many places do not want to give engineers autonomy like this.
- tallanvor 3y ago
  At the enterprise level, I suppose you could be looking at IBM Rational or Microsoft Dynamics. I'm surprised ServiceNow isn't trying to break into this space. But with the amount of customization that ends up being demanded, I'm not surprised the big companies start rolling their own. For smaller companies, there's so many choices out there, I can understand why it's hard to decide on one.
  - botulidze 3y ago
    > IBM Rational or Microsoft Dynamics Thanks, haven't checked those two. > I'm surprised ServiceNow isn't trying to break into this space. Last time I ran SNOW a few years ago, it was slowly but steadily heading into the SAP trajectory - highly-customazible per customer needs, expensive to pay and even more expensive to migrate onto. And it doesn't seem to prioritize any developer-oriented features to appeal to that crowd. I.e., they have GitHub integration but it's not something I could convince a developer to use on a daily basis unlike Jira's one: https://docs.servicenow.com/bundle/vancouver-it-asset-management/page/product/software-asset-management2/task/integrate-with-github-cloud.html https://docs.servicenow.com/bundle/vancouver-it-asset-manage...
jconnop 3y ago
We've been running Jira on prem for years, paying for server support renewals etc. We'll likely be running on prem as long as is reasonable without support, and then moving to an alternative - maybe gitlab. Atlassian lost our business with this move.
mschuster91 3y ago
Atlassian is a f...ing joke at that point. Their cloud offering seriously lags behind in features which means that there's a lot of third parties filling the gaps - e.g. Refined and My Requests, which are a must-have for anyone running Service Desk - and the admin side of configuring things still looks as ugly, weird and disjointed between their various services as it was eight years ago. I wonder where they actually put in the billions of dollars they've raked in from their customers - from the looks of it, definitely not in the product, and also not in support given that it's very obvious that their first line of support is some Indian guys in a callcenter with the complete inability to do more than follow a badly written script.
atribecalledqst 3y ago
JIRA has been annoying the shit out of me with their recent UI updates -- 1. Changing default sorting order to 'most recent first'; I thought I was going insane at first when it happened 2. Making the comment box a floating page element so it always takes up about 25% screen real estate I've been able to script these back to their old behavior but wouldn't it be nice if they added settings to toggle the behavior... My company has been on Atlassian products for the past like 20 years so it'll be interesting to see whether we migrate to their cloud garbage or migrate off them altogether.
- imglorp 3y ago
  (1) seems like a no-brainer to remember your preferred sort order in various places, such as issues in epics and yes it annoys everyone. https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-79973 https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-79973
- jschumacher 3y ago
  It’s a tricky balance. It would be easy for Atlassian to add settings. But every setting adds complexity. And I think we can all agree that we don’t want Jira to be more complex. It takes a short time to adjust to UI changes, but settings live on forever.
blibble 3y ago
no amount of complaints from... everyone about jira/confluence being absurdly slow or horrible to use had any effect on my employer (large multinational) but their decision to abandon on-prem has resulted in the company migrating away from all atlassian products the best thing atlassian have ever done!
- kylecordes 3y ago
  But they're not abandoning on-premise, though one could get that impression from the tone of the article. They are only dropping the small-business targeted Server tier, they are keeping the enterprise targeted Datacenter tier. It's pretty much a drop-in replacement, with extra capabilities. And annual payment instead of initial+upgrades payment.
  - Mandatum 3y ago
    DC is deprecated unless you’re FedRAMP (which they still haven’t got). Good luck getting that if you’re not F500. Once they get the government tick off approval they’ll kill off hosted versions completely. Last I heard they hired some guy to help with their FedRAMP certification, then got found out for blackmailing his previous employer (I guess HR didn’t Google him during hiring): https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/it-worker-jailed-for-impersonating-ransomware-gang-to-extort-employer/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/it-worker-jai...
  - bombcar 3y ago
    I think the underlying issue is that too many “big enterprises” were running server licenses and Atlassian wants more money and annual contracts.
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ChatGTP 3y ago
Reading this news makes me happy because I know someone somewhere is likely going to be have the chance to argue that it's time to migrate away from JIRA and Confluence. I personally they haveheld back nearly every organization I've worked for in some way or another over the last 15 years. These Atlassian products are the destroyers of enjoyment, satisfaction, project management and productivity. Issues I've encountered with Confluence and JIRA: * Painfully slow UI. * The confusing UX for JIRA. * The 100x ways to accomplish the same things in JIRA. * The fact project managers always end up going back to a spreadsheets because JIRA doesn't cut it, even though they insist they need to continue using it. * The way people bastardize every installation of JIRA it never seems to solve the problem it was designed to solve adequately, or because that was encouraged via "plugins". * JIRA can't be upgraded because someone installed a plugin that cannot be upgraded too, but the whole org is dependent on some functionality from said plugin. * The pathetic search in both product. * The shitty editor in confluence I really cannot believe anyone is still interested in using it. * Confluence not having support for Git or some similar version control system or pull-request like process support, making everyone to afraid to make changes to documentation. * Confluece, errors, just blows up sometimes when I go to save a document. I get that the plugins issues aren't entirely Atlassians fault in some ways ,but in others they are. I believe their plugin implementation allowed people to way too tightly integrate with the core product, not working like "integrations" but actually having the ability to break basic work flows. It was a huge mistake. I personally use GH issues and projects and the simplicity of it is really fantastic, when I'm forced to go back to JIRA at work, I just feel that I cannot believe I get paid to waste time wrangling these products into doing something useful.
- bombcar 3y ago
  JIRA is like Salesforce or any large enterprise “customizable” software package - by default all it does is expose all the organizational chaos and insanity.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Funny because I'm mainly Salesforce developer who just quit my current job at least 1/3rd because it was stuck with Atlassian. Oh and I have no idea how can anyone use Salesforce either.
treprinum 3y ago
Wouldn't that also destroy business models of many apps financially relying on on-prem mode like draw.io?
cbzbc 3y ago
Is this actually news? This seems to refer to something they did a while back, and is being repeated on the occasion of the deadline being 5 months away, rather than anything new being announced by Atlassian. FWIW my place swallowed the DC charge for now, on the basis that we'd explore our options and possibly shift away.
thrillgore 3y ago
Can't have shit on someone else's computer. Atlassian has become a company I don't want to do business with.
bitcharmer 3y ago
I can bet my money on this being some MBA's brilliant idea.
ijustlovemath 3y ago
It's not the best for big organizations, but I've been quite happy with Gitea ever since the Gitlab pricing changes. Tons of features, rapid development, painless backup and upgrade process, and most importantly, very inexpensive to self host. If your team is in the low teens to low hundreds of people, it might already support your workflows!
BonoboIO 3y ago
Sounds like „Prepare to abandon Atlassian products“
joshuaissac 3y ago
Atlassian Data Center edition will continue to be supported. It is the same software as the Server offering but with a different product key unlocking some more features like multiple nodes. It is far more expensive than Server, but still cheaper than Atlassian Cloud. And I found the per-user pricing to be about on par with alternative products from other suppliers. But for small companies, the brittleness of the licence count tiers can really inflate the cost.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  > It is far more expensive than Server, but still cheaper than Atlassian Cloud. Not if you're at <<500 users, which is the minimum tier for DC.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > unlocking some more features like multiple nodes And also locking out others like local Bamboo agents.
bluedino 3y ago
Why would they continue with on-prem? It has to be a support nightmare.
- bombcar 3y ago
  It doesn’t make them as much money (and on-premise continues for data center licenses so they wanna milk that, too). Atlassian support has been decent to good and I’ve rarely had to even contact them, you could almost always find what you needed on the support site or via a search.
- cpach 3y ago
  They will continue with on-prem, or as they call it “Data Center”. They charge a lot for it, but the option is there. Why? They probable have a bunch of large customers who will never accept going to a public cloud.
- polski-g 3y ago
  Because they might want to support DOD or intel customers. They clearly do not want said customers.
firesteelrain 3y ago
This is misleading because you can still buy the data center version which replaced the server version.
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I can't because it's much more expensive than my company can afford.
  - firesteelrain 3y ago
    No disagreement there at all. Data center is pricey. I imagine if your company can afford some of the licenses on the other products to go non-Cloud such as BitBucket or Bamboo then that may be your answer. Or go completely open source
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      I don't think we have a clear path at the moment, but there's no appetite to move off Atlassian as processes have developed around it over the previous decade. The assumption is that eventually we'll be forced onto their cloud offerings. I assume we'll be running unsupported server versions for at least a time, but we do have them fairly well isolated at least. I have a feeling we're not unique.
Eumenes 3y ago
Atlassian is just asking for someone to come along and eat their lunch. Issue tracking and wiki/knowledge base software aren't exactly products with trade secrets.
zelon88 3y ago
I like using HESK.
xyzzy_plugh 3y ago
The title is highly misleading. It appears they'll continue to sell on-premises licenses that are not perpetual and have a higher base price in the form of their Data Center offering. They're just removing perpetual licenses for small numbers of seats (low volume). It makes sense that they want to push small customers to their cloud product, supporting on-prem software is truly laborious and best saved for your largest possible customers. That being said Atlassian is huge so they're either leaving money on the table or they're following the market. My guess is the latter. In my recent adventures over the last few years, companies much larger than your average startup are increasingly amenable to cloud hosted services. I suspect this is in part due to how SOC2 has become so prevalent and relatively easy to obtain.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > It appears they'll continue to sell on-premises licenses that are not perpetual and have a higher base price in the form of their Data Center offering. It's worse than that: it's also a reduced feature set. For example, Bamboo Server lets you use local agents but Bamboo Data Center does not.
dudeinjapan 3y ago
I stayed at a hotel that was having a massive cloud outage and I couldn't get my room key at check-in. That night I had dream that on-prem became the new cloud. State was beautifully synced with CRDTs. In this dream, systems never went down, the data just became temporarily stale. Then I woke up.
- tegiddrone 3y ago
  I stayed at a hotel that was having a power outage and they could not assign me a room because they couldn't tell which rooms were unoccupied. I guess the rooms themselves had some redundant power or was wired to a different grid. That night I had a dream about having room assignment logs sent to a printer. When the power went out there was a log to flip through so that there was a manual way to determine where everyone was staying in the hotel.
xyst 3y ago
Time to build and sell Jira/Confluence migration tools.
- thargor90 3y ago
  But where to migrate to?
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
Gee...what a huge surprise. /s I suspect that many server vendors are trying to go this way. It actually makes a lot of business sense. It can have more to do with controlling the brand, and consolidating support, than just screwing over customers. But I got fairly sick of Atlassian's stuff, many years ago, so it isn't my monkey, and isn't my circus.
toywinder 3y ago
Atlassian had a cloud outage a few years ago that took some clients down for days. Not even considering moving to that dumpster fire.
Roark66 3y ago
We(as in everyone) are in a serious need of a new git server product. Just do git serving, and do it well. Preferably in a way multiple nodes can be run active-active for scaling and reliability. No need for cicd (Jenkins is fine for that, thank you very much). What are minimum viable features for me? Granular (per branch) security access. Integration with AD federation and other auth providers(congnito, aws iam) and ability to give AD groups rights. Web hooks sending and receiving. For example launch a merge request webhook(to lambda via aws api gateway, or to Jenkins). Receive a webhook as merge request approval when some Jenkins job finishes. There is exactly zero need for your repository system also run cicd jobs. It ends up doing both tasks badly. You'd like an example of said badness? Ok, how about this: in gitlab enterprise if you create cicd jobs/pipelines there is no way to giving someone an ability to run that pipeline without giving that person ability to push to the repository and submit merge requests. Yes, you can then set it so approval is needed before merge, protecting said pipeline, but why? There has been a ticket on gitlabs own issues page about it for years and it is still not resolved. But wait, there is more... Gitlab enterprise has no mode of working that let's you have more than one active server at a time so goodbye horizontal scaling. You want to scale your cicd worker nodes? They want you to use docker mashine(a deprecated product) instead of writing a Plugin like ec2-fleet for Jenkins. It is obvious gitlab tries to funnel it's enterprise customers into saas.
- thiht 3y ago
  > Jenkins is fine for that As someone who managed hundreds of Jenkins instances from 2016 to 2018, Jenkins is now complete crap, stop using it. It was an ok product when the open source world offered no alternative but it's completely outdated compared to today's solutions. Deploying it sucks, its config as code format(s) are awful, the plugins are shit, upgrades can (and do) break everything, and I won't even saying anything about the design (not just the UI but also the UX and concepts). Jenkins is not fine for anything in 2023.
  - Roark66 3y ago
    What alternative would you suggest? None of the large companies I worked at used anything other than Jenkins for cicd (well in one place we did use azure devops server - back then called teams If I remember correctly, but that was just for one app development team). Where they didn't use Jenkins they didn't have a dedicated cicd runner and they used github/gitlab instead. Both of these (although github less) suck for cicd IMO.
hnarn 3y ago
This is kind of hilarious since a lot of places where I've used Atlassian products seem to have more or less hated them but still put up with them for the sole reason that they are on-prem, and the competition available for the entire "suite" or whatever is pretty sparse. I'd be curious to see what kind of market share is estimated to be "on-prem, won't switch" because it sure isn't zero.
- WorldMaker 3y ago
  I also appreciate the irony layers of the companies that chose Atlassian's cloud products because "worst case we can install on-prem" but also picked the cloud products because they tried to install on-prem at least once and it was horrifying and they didn't want the stress of maintaining it.
noddingham 3y ago
We're continuing to build more and more service desk projects in Jira Service Management. That's becoming a killer feature for our business teams like HR, Finance, Marketing, and others. For us Jira Software is the 'other child' these days with JSM really taking front and center.
sschueller 3y ago
They aren't abandoning it, they removed anything below 500 users e.g. $45k per year. This is a huge fuck you to mid sized businesses that can't go into the cloud because of multiple reason such as certain plugins that cont be used etc. etc. What is a business supposed to do? Pay the $45k or spend 10 times that to find a mediocre replacement that doesn't exit and go through the grueling process of getting out of a vendor lock in? Worst part is of the replacement isn't open source you end if up the same shit again.
methods21 3y ago
We just chatted with Atlassian and just installed a pretty large on-prem env. (mandatory to meet restrictions), and think this title is misleading in that you can still buy supported on-prem server products, with support licenses. Will the focus of dev. be for their cloud products? 100% - TBH who isn't doing this now-adays (cough MSFT etc.) RANT: This force to cloud is total BS though and the S*T that Postman just pulled reinforces my general disdain for 'forced' cloud. Hopefully comps. will realize this and fill this spot in the market. RANTOFF

202 points by jjgreen 3y ago

I anticipate the horror stories of trying to import JIRA databases into new bug trackers when these news hit the fan. Things are going to get spicy.

jaylittle 3y ago

One day the pendulum will swing back in the other direction. Until then, those of us who disagree with putting absolutely everything into the cloud will just have to sit back and bide our time.

lucideer 3y ago
> will just have to sit back and bide our time I doubt that day will ever come without a significant number of potential customers stubbornly opting to go it alone with DIY on-prem alternatives (or at least somewhat SaaS-less - e.g. turnkey-on-IaaS or similar) in the interim. Though I guess that "stubborness" might become more likely as more & more stagnation & inflexibility of cloud SaaS reveals itself to customers over the coming years. My company's recently been pushed off JIRA on-prem to their cloud offering & the migration has already been an absolute travesty. Any gaps there might have been in the near-universal hatred of JIRA have been thoroughly wiped out by now.
- jjgreen 3y ago
  I'd agree, lock-in and subscriptions are too tasty a target to give up voluntarily
- msla 3y ago
  Or, you know, a SaaS cloud company could go belly-up and lose a ton of customer data with absolutely no backup or other compensation plan. "Suing the corpse" only works if the corpse hasn't already been looted. If that happens five or six times, it might swing the public perception.
- gpderetta 3y ago
  For many companies anything but on-prem is not an option. edit: and in fact the DC edition is still an option.
petercooper 3y ago
37signals is certainly looking in the other direction: https://once.com/ https://once.com/ .. though more at the smaller end of the market, not enterprise apps.
- raghavankl 3y ago
  But they have also announced that Basecamp will always be a subscription product, which doesn’t fit well with their once.com story.
  - petercooper 3y ago
    Can't imagine it's good business to scare the existing customers away.. ;-) But yeah, I think this is more dipping a toe into the water. They seem to be focusing on entirely new products with a reasonable small scope. It's interesting to see it happen, though, and they're moderately influential.
kgeist 3y ago
Russia is probably an outlier here, but the pendulum here is swinging back to on-prem, especially if the cloud provider is located in a different country. (Example: former McDonalds recently bought an on-prem solution from our company, although we have a cloud version, too). Today you're on good terms with a cloud provider, tomorrow the politics go 360° and all your data is lost. Probably not not as urgent in the first world, but with the current segmentation of the Internet happening (e.g. restrictions in EU), I wouldn't be so certain about it.
- kgeist 3y ago
  >360 I meant 180, of course :)
- cvalka 3y ago
  ELMA :-)
  - kgeist 3y ago
    If you mean Elma CRM, then no, we have a different product.
originalvichy 3y ago
Can’t say I agree. I believe the method of distributing software historically was limited due to no easy access to public computing. Now the software distributor can more easily provide the software to the customer. If ”cloud” was available in the 90s, I doubt that self hosting would have been as popular. Not saying its a wrong choice, just a matter of convenience.
- wredue 3y ago
  Organizations will do whatever they think is cheaper. Convenience doesn’t matter. The manager will say that SaaS costs half as much and then we get the direction to move. When the pendulum swings to “On-Premise will cost half as much”, we will get the direction to move back.
nvm0n2 3y ago
Not gonna happen unless a new server OS arrives that's significantly easier to use than Linux. The core diff between on-prem and cloud isn't where the data is hosted. It's that in one case someone else handles UNIX BS and in the other case you do. Get a MacOS-equivalent level of usability for servers in a form that isn't rent it by the hour, and you could see such a migration, but what's the incentive for anyone to build or support that when people are willing to pay so much for cloud services?
- __d 3y ago
  Curious what you see as the "UNIX BS" in running a server? Is it the need to CLI? Or just the number of knobs that you can frob? Too many choices? Interested in how such a server system might look.
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    Almost total absence of GUIs and proper documentation. A big part of why people pay for AWS and friends is not instant scalability or even the fancy features, but simply because clouds wrap a half-way decent GUI around high level server oriented tasks combined with an actual task focused user guide. To compare, try comparing the docs and GUI help you get deploying a simple serverless app to Lambda+RDS vs configuring a Linux box with systemd, apache/nginx, SSL termination, postgres, borgbackup or whatever other stack you want to use. The difference is night and day. The systemd docs alone are classic Linux BS culture. UNIX sysadmin is complicated in very fundamental and deep ways for people who don't have a gray beard. I know how to do it but I don't enjoy it, and I had to recently teach a friend of mine how to do basic tasks. He's a pro software dev with years of experience incl at Google but sysadmin was never something he needed to do. Luckily now ChatGPT can help a lot with the missing usability.
    - __d 3y ago
      Thanks for sharing that. I think the documentation aspect is often overlooked. Even RedHat's subscriber-only documentation is ... quite dense, and yet, not very deep.

kortilla 3y ago

It’s a shame that the options for orgs that don’t want Internet dependencies dwindle by the day. The poorly connected and security conscious get left behind again.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

proxysna 3y ago

Last year I was second guessing myself if migration to Gitlab EE from Jira, Bitbucket and Jenkins would be worth it, as it was a massive shift for my org. Maybe purchasing a DC version of Atlassian products would be a better alternative, but after short look into invoices and licensing it was decided to go forward with Gitlab. Still not a big fan of how stiff Yaml pipelines feel in Gitlab CI and that tickets for what seems like a simple feature [1] hang around for years, but it is nice. Developers like it, and i am happy that they are happy. [1] https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/-/issues/2658 https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-runner/-/issues/2658

neilv 3y ago
At a couple startups, I've promoted a mantra of "everything goes into GitLab". If some information is not in GitLab Git and CI, it should be in GitLab Issues or (ugly) GitLab Wiki. Those 4 words avoid a lot of problems. Including avoiding a proliferation of silo'd and leaked and lost information in numerous different SaaSes, apps/programs, and storage services that people will tend to do by default.
- dnsmichi 3y ago
  GitLab team member here. Thanks for sharing. > If some information is not in GitLab Git and CI, it should be in GitLab Issues or (ugly) GitLab Wiki. Tip if you have not used it yet: The rich text editor can help with visual editing issues and the wiki: https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/rich_text_editor.html https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/rich_text_editor.html
preisschild 3y ago
Are you using the docker executor, or Kubernetes? For Kubernetes, we found that GitLab has a tool that automatically does that: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/ci-cd/gitlab-runner-pod-cleanup/ https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/ci-cd/gitlab-runner-pod-cleanu...
- proxysna 3y ago
  It was just an example of a number of small things and issues, that we were not expecting to be an issue by the 15th major release, but in general it's ok. We implemented a workaround.

steveBK123 3y ago

Jira/Confluence are two products that have gotten markedly slower and slower over time and as they've moved into the cloud. I observe load times that remind me of the 90s sometimes using their cloud apps. Incredible they are killing on-prem, but maybe it makes it harder to compare to the slow as molasses cloud offering that way?

throwawaaarrgh 3y ago
I have the opposite experience; many if not most of the features have gotten faster as the features have expanded in capability
- consp 3y ago
  > as the features have expanded in capability Yet I still cannot import anything like in the old editor (e.g. markdown), adding images in lists was added two years after forcing switching to the new editor and you still cannot continue numbered lists in another item line and have to start over. Extensions exist to do this but these things should be standard in any editor.
  - RHSeeger 3y ago
    The new editor in Jira is drives me nuts. They replaced a perfectly good, functional markdown editor with the current POS, and it causes me problems nearly every single day.
    - ChatGTP 3y ago
      Atlassian stuggles with editors like no other company I've seen. I don't remember the last time I had a problem with an editor except for using any Atlassian product. Not sure what the fuck they do, but they really seem to have trouble with this aspect of their products. Which is ironic because their products are essentially CRUD products with a heavy emphasis on data entry. Like, if anything out their products needs to work well, it's the editors.

HHad3 3y ago

Using Atlassian cloud products is a business risk. They previously let customers sit for weeks without access to their data [1]. Cloud-hosted products do get early patches for unsecured /setup routes though [2], so there's that. At this point the decision has been made in our org to firewall their products off the internet and internal networks, and migrate to something else by 2024. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atlassian https://hn.algolia.com/?q=atlassian [2] https://confluence.atlassian.com/security/cve-2023-22515-privilege-escalation-vulnerability-in-confluence-data-center-and-server-1295682276.html https://confluence.atlassian.com/security/cve-2023-22515-pri...

kwanbix 3y ago
While Jira does many many things right, it is also horrible in so many ways. What options are you evaluating?
- preisschild 3y ago
  Not OP, but we moved to Gitlab Issues. Project Managers are missing some features, but the devs (including me) like it a lot more due to integrating so well with PRs/commits.
  - wdfx 3y ago
    The problem with this though, is that commonly a requirement (ticket) does not map exactly to a single code repository. I feel that it is breaking encapsulation in a sense to be dealing with issues at the repo level. The repo and the code are implementation details of the business requirements. The tickets describing requirements belong at the next level up of abstraction?
    - peanball 3y ago
      There are issues at group / org level in GitLab that can span such tasks.
      - 3y ago

itronitron 3y ago

I've always found Jira particularly frustrating compared to other options, so I consider this great news.

Mandatum 3y ago

Thankful GitLab EE exists. What a nightmare for any companies who deal with M&A, finance, healthcare, etc. Sure, you can trust cloud providers not to get hacked. But I’d sooner have the option to unplug the Ethernet.

UweSchmidt 3y ago

Any alternatives that you've used successfully in medium or large organizations?

zelon88 3y ago
HESK. https://www.hesk.com/ https://www.hesk.com/

botulidze 3y ago

The problem with Jira is that we don't have many alternatives at enterprise level. Maybe for smaller teams (<1000 engineers) something else is at table. It's also interesting neither of FAANG - except for Netflix - are using Jira, they are all on something home-grown AFAIK. I had a lot of hopes for Github Issues [0] but since they announced the product on last year's Universe event, there were not many news. Maybe this November they will come back with an update. At this point, I feel Jira is like WordPress. It maybe slow and overbloated, but you can have absolutely any plugin and/or integration you can think of. [0] https://github.com/features/issues https://github.com/features/issues

buro9 3y ago
Grafana Labs is using Github Projects and Issues for ~500 engineers that we have and the extended FOSS community contributing to projects like Grafana, Loki, Mimir, Tempo, and Pyroscope. It is possible to do, I ack that we're below your 1k engineers threshold (though the OSS side is way above), but the problem isn't Github it's whether you (as an org) dictate a single SDLC that you enforce via a tool and as we aren't doing that and we're not yet encountering difficulties (beyond culture shock when people onboard and can't find what they're used to elsewhere, being Jira). By working with autonomy, and in fact embracing OSS and the community (meaning we can't hide info in internal Jira instances), it's easy to avoid Jira. That's the rub though, many places do not want to give engineers autonomy like this.
tallanvor 3y ago
At the enterprise level, I suppose you could be looking at IBM Rational or Microsoft Dynamics. I'm surprised ServiceNow isn't trying to break into this space. But with the amount of customization that ends up being demanded, I'm not surprised the big companies start rolling their own. For smaller companies, there's so many choices out there, I can understand why it's hard to decide on one.
- botulidze 3y ago
  > IBM Rational or Microsoft Dynamics Thanks, haven't checked those two. > I'm surprised ServiceNow isn't trying to break into this space. Last time I ran SNOW a few years ago, it was slowly but steadily heading into the SAP trajectory - highly-customazible per customer needs, expensive to pay and even more expensive to migrate onto. And it doesn't seem to prioritize any developer-oriented features to appeal to that crowd. I.e., they have GitHub integration but it's not something I could convince a developer to use on a daily basis unlike Jira's one: https://docs.servicenow.com/bundle/vancouver-it-asset-management/page/product/software-asset-management2/task/integrate-with-github-cloud.html https://docs.servicenow.com/bundle/vancouver-it-asset-manage...

jconnop 3y ago

We've been running Jira on prem for years, paying for server support renewals etc. We'll likely be running on prem as long as is reasonable without support, and then moving to an alternative - maybe gitlab. Atlassian lost our business with this move.

mschuster91 3y ago

Atlassian is a f...ing joke at that point. Their cloud offering seriously lags behind in features which means that there's a lot of third parties filling the gaps - e.g. Refined and My Requests, which are a must-have for anyone running Service Desk - and the admin side of configuring things still looks as ugly, weird and disjointed between their various services as it was eight years ago. I wonder where they actually put in the billions of dollars they've raked in from their customers - from the looks of it, definitely not in the product, and also not in support given that it's very obvious that their first line of support is some Indian guys in a callcenter with the complete inability to do more than follow a badly written script.

atribecalledqst 3y ago

JIRA has been annoying the shit out of me with their recent UI updates -- 1. Changing default sorting order to 'most recent first'; I thought I was going insane at first when it happened 2. Making the comment box a floating page element so it always takes up about 25% screen real estate I've been able to script these back to their old behavior but wouldn't it be nice if they added settings to toggle the behavior... My company has been on Atlassian products for the past like 20 years so it'll be interesting to see whether we migrate to their cloud garbage or migrate off them altogether.

imglorp 3y ago
(1) seems like a no-brainer to remember your preferred sort order in various places, such as issues in epics and yes it annoys everyone. https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-79973 https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/JRACLOUD-79973
jschumacher 3y ago
It’s a tricky balance. It would be easy for Atlassian to add settings. But every setting adds complexity. And I think we can all agree that we don’t want Jira to be more complex. It takes a short time to adjust to UI changes, but settings live on forever.

blibble 3y ago

no amount of complaints from... everyone about jira/confluence being absurdly slow or horrible to use had any effect on my employer (large multinational) but their decision to abandon on-prem has resulted in the company migrating away from all atlassian products the best thing atlassian have ever done!

kylecordes 3y ago
But they're not abandoning on-premise, though one could get that impression from the tone of the article. They are only dropping the small-business targeted Server tier, they are keeping the enterprise targeted Datacenter tier. It's pretty much a drop-in replacement, with extra capabilities. And annual payment instead of initial+upgrades payment.
- Mandatum 3y ago
  DC is deprecated unless you’re FedRAMP (which they still haven’t got). Good luck getting that if you’re not F500. Once they get the government tick off approval they’ll kill off hosted versions completely. Last I heard they hired some guy to help with their FedRAMP certification, then got found out for blackmailing his previous employer (I guess HR didn’t Google him during hiring): https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/it-worker-jailed-for-impersonating-ransomware-gang-to-extort-employer/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/it-worker-jai...
- bombcar 3y ago
  I think the underlying issue is that too many “big enterprises” were running server licenses and Atlassian wants more money and annual contracts.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

ChatGTP 3y ago

Reading this news makes me happy because I know someone somewhere is likely going to be have the chance to argue that it's time to migrate away from JIRA and Confluence. I personally they haveheld back nearly every organization I've worked for in some way or another over the last 15 years. These Atlassian products are the destroyers of enjoyment, satisfaction, project management and productivity. Issues I've encountered with Confluence and JIRA: * Painfully slow UI. * The confusing UX for JIRA. * The 100x ways to accomplish the same things in JIRA. * The fact project managers always end up going back to a spreadsheets because JIRA doesn't cut it, even though they insist they need to continue using it. * The way people bastardize every installation of JIRA it never seems to solve the problem it was designed to solve adequately, or because that was encouraged via "plugins". * JIRA can't be upgraded because someone installed a plugin that cannot be upgraded too, but the whole org is dependent on some functionality from said plugin. * The pathetic search in both product. * The shitty editor in confluence I really cannot believe anyone is still interested in using it. * Confluence not having support for Git or some similar version control system or pull-request like process support, making everyone to afraid to make changes to documentation. * Confluece, errors, just blows up sometimes when I go to save a document. I get that the plugins issues aren't entirely Atlassians fault in some ways ,but in others they are. I believe their plugin implementation allowed people to way too tightly integrate with the core product, not working like "integrations" but actually having the ability to break basic work flows. It was a huge mistake. I personally use GH issues and projects and the simplicity of it is really fantastic, when I'm forced to go back to JIRA at work, I just feel that I cannot believe I get paid to waste time wrangling these products into doing something useful.

bombcar 3y ago
JIRA is like Salesforce or any large enterprise “customizable” software package - by default all it does is expose all the organizational chaos and insanity.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Funny because I'm mainly Salesforce developer who just quit my current job at least 1/3rd because it was stuck with Atlassian. Oh and I have no idea how can anyone use Salesforce either.

treprinum 3y ago

Wouldn't that also destroy business models of many apps financially relying on on-prem mode like draw.io?

cbzbc 3y ago

Is this actually news? This seems to refer to something they did a while back, and is being repeated on the occasion of the deadline being 5 months away, rather than anything new being announced by Atlassian. FWIW my place swallowed the DC charge for now, on the basis that we'd explore our options and possibly shift away.

thrillgore 3y ago

Can't have shit on someone else's computer. Atlassian has become a company I don't want to do business with.

bitcharmer 3y ago

I can bet my money on this being some MBA's brilliant idea.

ijustlovemath 3y ago

It's not the best for big organizations, but I've been quite happy with Gitea ever since the Gitlab pricing changes. Tons of features, rapid development, painless backup and upgrade process, and most importantly, very inexpensive to self host. If your team is in the low teens to low hundreds of people, it might already support your workflows!

BonoboIO 3y ago

Sounds like „Prepare to abandon Atlassian products“

joshuaissac 3y ago

Atlassian Data Center edition will continue to be supported. It is the same software as the Server offering but with a different product key unlocking some more features like multiple nodes. It is far more expensive than Server, but still cheaper than Atlassian Cloud. And I found the per-user pricing to be about on par with alternative products from other suppliers. But for small companies, the brittleness of the licence count tiers can really inflate the cost.

mschuster91 3y ago
> It is far more expensive than Server, but still cheaper than Atlassian Cloud. Not if you're at <<500 users, which is the minimum tier for DC.
josephcsible 3y ago
> unlocking some more features like multiple nodes And also locking out others like local Bamboo agents.

bluedino 3y ago

Why would they continue with on-prem? It has to be a support nightmare.

bombcar 3y ago
It doesn’t make them as much money (and on-premise continues for data center licenses so they wanna milk that, too). Atlassian support has been decent to good and I’ve rarely had to even contact them, you could almost always find what you needed on the support site or via a search.
cpach 3y ago
They will continue with on-prem, or as they call it “Data Center”. They charge a lot for it, but the option is there. Why? They probable have a bunch of large customers who will never accept going to a public cloud.
polski-g 3y ago
Because they might want to support DOD or intel customers. They clearly do not want said customers.

firesteelrain 3y ago

This is misleading because you can still buy the data center version which replaced the server version.

hotpotamus 3y ago
I can't because it's much more expensive than my company can afford.
- firesteelrain 3y ago
  No disagreement there at all. Data center is pricey. I imagine if your company can afford some of the licenses on the other products to go non-Cloud such as BitBucket or Bamboo then that may be your answer. Or go completely open source
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I don't think we have a clear path at the moment, but there's no appetite to move off Atlassian as processes have developed around it over the previous decade. The assumption is that eventually we'll be forced onto their cloud offerings. I assume we'll be running unsupported server versions for at least a time, but we do have them fairly well isolated at least. I have a feeling we're not unique.

Eumenes 3y ago

Atlassian is just asking for someone to come along and eat their lunch. Issue tracking and wiki/knowledge base software aren't exactly products with trade secrets.

zelon88 3y ago

I like using HESK.

xyzzy_plugh 3y ago

The title is highly misleading. It appears they'll continue to sell on-premises licenses that are not perpetual and have a higher base price in the form of their Data Center offering. They're just removing perpetual licenses for small numbers of seats (low volume). It makes sense that they want to push small customers to their cloud product, supporting on-prem software is truly laborious and best saved for your largest possible customers. That being said Atlassian is huge so they're either leaving money on the table or they're following the market. My guess is the latter. In my recent adventures over the last few years, companies much larger than your average startup are increasingly amenable to cloud hosted services. I suspect this is in part due to how SOC2 has become so prevalent and relatively easy to obtain.

josephcsible 3y ago
> It appears they'll continue to sell on-premises licenses that are not perpetual and have a higher base price in the form of their Data Center offering. It's worse than that: it's also a reduced feature set. For example, Bamboo Server lets you use local agents but Bamboo Data Center does not.

dudeinjapan 3y ago

I stayed at a hotel that was having a massive cloud outage and I couldn't get my room key at check-in. That night I had dream that on-prem became the new cloud. State was beautifully synced with CRDTs. In this dream, systems never went down, the data just became temporarily stale. Then I woke up.

tegiddrone 3y ago
I stayed at a hotel that was having a power outage and they could not assign me a room because they couldn't tell which rooms were unoccupied. I guess the rooms themselves had some redundant power or was wired to a different grid. That night I had a dream about having room assignment logs sent to a printer. When the power went out there was a log to flip through so that there was a manual way to determine where everyone was staying in the hotel.

xyst 3y ago

Time to build and sell Jira/Confluence migration tools.

thargor90 3y ago
But where to migrate to?

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

Gee...what a huge surprise. /s I suspect that many server vendors are trying to go this way. It actually makes a lot of business sense. It can have more to do with controlling the brand, and consolidating support, than just screwing over customers. But I got fairly sick of Atlassian's stuff, many years ago, so it isn't my monkey, and isn't my circus.

toywinder 3y ago

Atlassian had a cloud outage a few years ago that took some clients down for days. Not even considering moving to that dumpster fire.

Roark66 3y ago

We(as in everyone) are in a serious need of a new git server product. Just do git serving, and do it well. Preferably in a way multiple nodes can be run active-active for scaling and reliability. No need for cicd (Jenkins is fine for that, thank you very much). What are minimum viable features for me? Granular (per branch) security access. Integration with AD federation and other auth providers(congnito, aws iam) and ability to give AD groups rights. Web hooks sending and receiving. For example launch a merge request webhook(to lambda via aws api gateway, or to Jenkins). Receive a webhook as merge request approval when some Jenkins job finishes. There is exactly zero need for your repository system also run cicd jobs. It ends up doing both tasks badly. You'd like an example of said badness? Ok, how about this: in gitlab enterprise if you create cicd jobs/pipelines there is no way to giving someone an ability to run that pipeline without giving that person ability to push to the repository and submit merge requests. Yes, you can then set it so approval is needed before merge, protecting said pipeline, but why? There has been a ticket on gitlabs own issues page about it for years and it is still not resolved. But wait, there is more... Gitlab enterprise has no mode of working that let's you have more than one active server at a time so goodbye horizontal scaling. You want to scale your cicd worker nodes? They want you to use docker mashine(a deprecated product) instead of writing a Plugin like ec2-fleet for Jenkins. It is obvious gitlab tries to funnel it's enterprise customers into saas.

thiht 3y ago
> Jenkins is fine for that As someone who managed hundreds of Jenkins instances from 2016 to 2018, Jenkins is now complete crap, stop using it. It was an ok product when the open source world offered no alternative but it's completely outdated compared to today's solutions. Deploying it sucks, its config as code format(s) are awful, the plugins are shit, upgrades can (and do) break everything, and I won't even saying anything about the design (not just the UI but also the UX and concepts). Jenkins is not fine for anything in 2023.
- Roark66 3y ago
  What alternative would you suggest? None of the large companies I worked at used anything other than Jenkins for cicd (well in one place we did use azure devops server - back then called teams If I remember correctly, but that was just for one app development team). Where they didn't use Jenkins they didn't have a dedicated cicd runner and they used github/gitlab instead. Both of these (although github less) suck for cicd IMO.

hnarn 3y ago

This is kind of hilarious since a lot of places where I've used Atlassian products seem to have more or less hated them but still put up with them for the sole reason that they are on-prem, and the competition available for the entire "suite" or whatever is pretty sparse. I'd be curious to see what kind of market share is estimated to be "on-prem, won't switch" because it sure isn't zero.

WorldMaker 3y ago
I also appreciate the irony layers of the companies that chose Atlassian's cloud products because "worst case we can install on-prem" but also picked the cloud products because they tried to install on-prem at least once and it was horrifying and they didn't want the stress of maintaining it.

noddingham 3y ago

We're continuing to build more and more service desk projects in Jira Service Management. That's becoming a killer feature for our business teams like HR, Finance, Marketing, and others. For us Jira Software is the 'other child' these days with JSM really taking front and center.

sschueller 3y ago

They aren't abandoning it, they removed anything below 500 users e.g. $45k per year. This is a huge fuck you to mid sized businesses that can't go into the cloud because of multiple reason such as certain plugins that cont be used etc. etc. What is a business supposed to do? Pay the $45k or spend 10 times that to find a mediocre replacement that doesn't exit and go through the grueling process of getting out of a vendor lock in? Worst part is of the replacement isn't open source you end if up the same shit again.

methods21 3y ago

We just chatted with Atlassian and just installed a pretty large on-prem env. (mandatory to meet restrictions), and think this title is misleading in that you can still buy supported on-prem server products, with support licenses. Will the focus of dev. be for their cloud products? 100% - TBH who isn't doing this now-adays (cough MSFT etc.) RANT: This force to cloud is total BS though and the S*T that Postman just pulled reinforces my general disdain for 'forced' cloud. Hopefully comps. will realize this and fill this spot in the market. RANTOFF