11 ms·

Agreed. Everything is at least a solid 30% more expensive than just 2020. Food has gotten insanely expensive in that time. Anecdotally, I can remember a burger

by gtowey 3y ago

Agreed. Everything is at least a solid 30% more expensive than just 2020. Food has gotten insanely expensive in that time. Anecdotally, I can remember a burger at a restaurant was about $6 in 1999. Now average seems to be 15 to 20. I would believe that everything is about 3x the price from 20 years ago. This chart seems to say the average is less than 2x which I don't agree with.

smelendez 3y ago
Restaurant and packaged food (e.g., cookies, frozen meals) prices up an average 30% since 2020 is what I usually think too, but I also think bargains have disappeared, which is probably harder to capture. It feels like far fewer restaurants have lunch specials than in 2020, for instance, and a lot of cheap restaurants have either raised prices to the norm or closed. Bars and casinos having discounted or free food to get you to drink has gone out the window (even where legal). And looking back 20 years, it feels like far fewer restaurants have small and simple orders available. For instance, you used to be able to go into a diner or other casual restaurant and get a hamburger or other sandwich with no fries or side. That’s harder to find now. So is cheap, unremarkable coffee and cheap breakfast items, like small pastries or two-egg plates. Similarly, it’s harder to find a small car, a house or apartment without central air, a 15 inch TV (though TVs have gotten cheaper), etc.
- paulpauper 3y ago
  yeah, people are being forced to buy features or addons, which adds to the cost. this is another way to pass on inflation to the consumer marketed as a 'good deal', when it isn't. instead of an economical small car, you have to buy a bigger car which gets worse mileage and full of unwanted stuff.
- jclardy 3y ago
  Yeah - I distinctly remember back in 2006-2007 (My early college days) getting a 2 for $2 deal at McDonalds - 2 bacon, egg and cheese biscuits for $2. Now one biscuit (normally) is $3.89 and they run 2 for $5 specials, but seemingly way less often. Back in the day, the special was ran literally all the time, but even still the cost of the biscuit was under $2. And this is 7 years past 1999. The Big Mac Index shows the price of a big mac in 2000 at $2.24, and now at $5.58, so that would put $1 in 2000 at $2.49 in 2020 which feels a lot closer to the actual number...but still low because everything "around" the entree has also increased similarly, if not more.
  - sgerenser 3y ago
    One thing that happened since 1999 is the rise of price discrimination at fast food restaurants (well price discrimination in general, but fast food is easiest to see). If you have the App, you can get that $5.59 big Mac with a free fry and drink. Without the app, the meal is probably close to $10. (Just a made up example, but in general app coupons seem to often save 30-50% over not using coupons).
  - ryathal 3y ago
    In about the same period Taco Bell had the .79/.89/.99 menu options. You could feed a family of four for about $10. Now even the $5 combo box is becoming rare.
  - smeej 3y ago
    Simple burgers were $0.29 and cheeseburgers $0.39 at McD's the whole time I was in high school in the early aughts.
  - PopAlongKid 3y ago
    >- 2 bacon, egg and cheese biscuits for $2. Now one biscuit (normally) is $3.89 and they run 2 for $5 specials But the chickens now live cage-free and (thanks to California) the pigs will now be able to turn around in their pens.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- chippiewill 3y ago
  > but I also think bargains have disappeared I think the big one is the people who produce inflation statistics struggle to capture increases when products change, particularly shrinkflation. The ONS (Who produce the UK inflation statistics) specifically noted limitations in their methodology because when a particular product (whether that's a particular brand, or specific size) is discontinued, they replace it in their subsequent basket with a similar item for measuring inflation but don't measure the change in inflation from the change in product. For example a 25p can of peas may be withdrawn from sale by the manufacturer, so the next month ONS would switch to checking the price of a 30p can of peas (the next cheapest can). The fact that people who were buying that can of peas now have to pay 5p more for peas is never captured in inflation.
  - epups 3y ago
    This is definitely part of the problem, and another issue is quality decrease. Sure, maybe a given item has only increased 80% in price, but perhaps now the quality has decreased so that ultimately you are comparing apples to oranges.
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      The fun thing with quality is that statistics agencies are in fact trying to include quality change in their inflation calculation (it's called hedonic adjustment) but AFAIK they only do it for “objective quality” increases (like when CPU clock frequency increases or Disk Size increase), not when actual quality decreases.
  - nradov 3y ago
    BLS personnel don't "struggle" to capture shrinkflation. They are well aware of the issue and always normalize prices by actual weight or volume. Have you read their documentation?
majormajor 3y ago
The Whataburger I got way-too-frequently for just under $6 in 2001 is like $10 bucks now. MSRP of a 99 M3 = 46k; 2023 stating at $74300. Outside of housing and gas I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that's more than double the cost. GPUs, I suppose, but that's a weird hobby transition + a lot more industrial uses. That said, housing+gas == huge parts of people's day to day lives, obviously.
- anonymoushn 3y ago
  College tuition and health insurance :)
  - doubleg72 3y ago
    Definitely not doubled
    - anonymoushn 3y ago
      https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Figure-1-12.png https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Figure-1-12.p...
  - jtbayly 3y ago
    Good news! Health insurance has dropped by 37% in the last year, according to the CPI. I tried to ask HN about this a day or so ago… https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37880185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37880185
    - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
      [dead]
    - netrus 3y ago
      It's an artifact of how the measurement is made, as it accounts for insurance profits. While a good proxy in normal times, corona sent this measure into a wild rollercoaster-ride. However, it is generally a good idea not to change the method of measuring because you do not like the measures in the short term. The most important measure is the headline number (and MoM is more informative than YoY in these times), as it is the basis for actual politics. The headline number absorbs a lot of craziness in the underlying measures.
paulpauper 3y ago
Compounding is the 8th wonder in the world for this reason. It's amazing how in the span of a few decades how much prices have gone up. Except for clothes and electronics, everything seems to have gotten way more expensive compared to cpi. but even iPhones still cost a lot. The situation seems out of control for things like tuition .
- onthecanposting 3y ago
  Compounding interest on savings for most of us is much less than inflation, so the purchasing power of work done gradually dwindles to nothing over time. Pretty depressing.
  - sgerenser 3y ago
    I think we’ve finally hit the point where compound interest on savings is outpacing inflation (at least in the US). Savings accounts at 5%+ interest are now widely available as long as you avoid the big banks like Chase and BofA. Meanwhile inflation is still elevated, but at least its well below 5%. OTOH, the prior 10+ years even when inflation wasn’t very high, 1% or so interest rates meant savers were falling farther and farther behind.
    - nonethewiser 3y ago
      That’s an interesting point and might end up being true. But inflation vs. savings rates over the past 2 years dwarf that benefit.
  - logicchains 3y ago
    The really depressing thing is it's not just a diminishment of purchasing power, it's a transfer of purchasing power to those who first get to spend the newly created money (which tends to be financial institutions and people with the wealth/connections to gey big loans). Which needn't necessarily be the case, if the inflation occurred via evenly distributed "helicopter money" rather than the current approach.
  - mactrey 3y ago
jvalencia 3y ago
In 1999 I regularly paid $10 to fill my tank. It takes $50+ for the same tank size today. I ate a meal with a drink at Taco Bell for $2-3.
- bbatha 3y ago
  And in 2004 I regularly paid $50+.
- jclardy 3y ago
  Taco bell is the most ridiculous now. If I eat there I will only order a $2-$3 "value" burrito. The moment you order any kind of combo, you are out $10+.
  - hotnfresh 3y ago
    Every fast food place now requires using their apps and shit to get what ought to be menu prices, judging by what the prices were before. They require “hacking” and careful deal-hunting to get the kind of bargains that used to be available with ordinary specials and coupons and such. You can still “win” against e.g. Taco Bell, but it’s much harder. Ordinary menu prices everywhere are ripoff-tier.
- ratsbane 3y ago
  Changes in technology do shift the market baskets that we buy. I now pay $7 to do the equivalent of "filling my tank" when I charge at home.
- jjav 3y ago
  > I ate a meal with a drink at Taco Bell for $2-3. Taco Bell in particular has gone mad, I don't see how they can survive with current pricing. I used to go often, knowing it wasn't good quality but it was oh so cheap. Today their prices are so high that I can go to a local taqueria and get a giant burrito with far better and fresher ingredients and friendlier service for less money than a few mystery meat tacos from Taco Bell. So on the positive side, I now only frequent the local business with good quality food.
pjscott 3y ago
This probably varies from place to place. A high-quality double cheeseburger in my area can be had for $6.19, and adding tomato is only a little extra. (I checked prices a minute ago, so these numbers are fresh.)
onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
> Food has gotten insanely expensive in that time. > Anecdotally, I can remember a burger at a restaurant was about $6 in 1999. Now average seems to be 15 to 20. When you go to a restaurant, you're mostly buying labor. It's not a good benchmark for food prices.
- HarryHirsch 3y ago
  When you go to a restaurant, you're mostly buying labor Wages have stagnated, but rent and energy has gone up. It's mostly the rent that you are paying for when you eat out.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    Maybe where you are. Service industry job wages have all gone up significantly since pre-covid where I live.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Wages have not stagnated. It's been a defining feature of our COVID inflation that inequality stats have gotten better. Specifically in HCOL coastal cities, we've seen increases to minimum wage, adjustments to the "tipped minimum wage" laws that mean business needs to cover more of the wage, and finally.. labor shortages causing restaurants to pay over even those increased minimums. It wasn't long ago NYC minimum wage was under $10/hr, with "tipped minimum" being $7/hr. Now you have some restaurants paying $20/hr to get staff.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
    Personal income has not stagnated in constant terms (or real terms): https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-trends-analysis/per_capita_personal_income/tools/0/0/ https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-tr...
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  > It's not a good benchmark for food prices. I don’t think the original comment depended on this being a good benchmark for food prices. Paying more for labor is also part of inflation.
smeej 3y ago
Carl's Jr./Hardee's even advertised "The $6 Burger," which sold for about half that, as a way to say, "Look, you can get a restaurant-quality burger at our fast food chain for leas money."
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Carl's Jr./Hardee's even advertised "The $6 Burger," which sold for about half that Close to 2/3 ($3.95) when introduced in 2001. The renamed 1/2-pound Original Thickburger is now $5.79, or 1.47× the 2001 price.

by gtowey 3y ago

smelendez 3y ago

Restaurant and packaged food (e.g., cookies, frozen meals) prices up an average 30% since 2020 is what I usually think too, but I also think bargains have disappeared, which is probably harder to capture. It feels like far fewer restaurants have lunch specials than in 2020, for instance, and a lot of cheap restaurants have either raised prices to the norm or closed. Bars and casinos having discounted or free food to get you to drink has gone out the window (even where legal). And looking back 20 years, it feels like far fewer restaurants have small and simple orders available. For instance, you used to be able to go into a diner or other casual restaurant and get a hamburger or other sandwich with no fries or side. That’s harder to find now. So is cheap, unremarkable coffee and cheap breakfast items, like small pastries or two-egg plates. Similarly, it’s harder to find a small car, a house or apartment without central air, a 15 inch TV (though TVs have gotten cheaper), etc.

paulpauper 3y ago
yeah, people are being forced to buy features or addons, which adds to the cost. this is another way to pass on inflation to the consumer marketed as a 'good deal', when it isn't. instead of an economical small car, you have to buy a bigger car which gets worse mileage and full of unwanted stuff.
jclardy 3y ago
Yeah - I distinctly remember back in 2006-2007 (My early college days) getting a 2 for $2 deal at McDonalds - 2 bacon, egg and cheese biscuits for $2. Now one biscuit (normally) is $3.89 and they run 2 for $5 specials, but seemingly way less often. Back in the day, the special was ran literally all the time, but even still the cost of the biscuit was under $2. And this is 7 years past 1999. The Big Mac Index shows the price of a big mac in 2000 at $2.24, and now at $5.58, so that would put $1 in 2000 at $2.49 in 2020 which feels a lot closer to the actual number...but still low because everything "around" the entree has also increased similarly, if not more.
- sgerenser 3y ago
  One thing that happened since 1999 is the rise of price discrimination at fast food restaurants (well price discrimination in general, but fast food is easiest to see). If you have the App, you can get that $5.59 big Mac with a free fry and drink. Without the app, the meal is probably close to $10. (Just a made up example, but in general app coupons seem to often save 30-50% over not using coupons).
- ryathal 3y ago
  In about the same period Taco Bell had the .79/.89/.99 menu options. You could feed a family of four for about $10. Now even the $5 combo box is becoming rare.
- smeej 3y ago
  Simple burgers were $0.29 and cheeseburgers $0.39 at McD's the whole time I was in high school in the early aughts.
- PopAlongKid 3y ago
  >- 2 bacon, egg and cheese biscuits for $2. Now one biscuit (normally) is $3.89 and they run 2 for $5 specials But the chickens now live cage-free and (thanks to California) the pigs will now be able to turn around in their pens.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
chippiewill 3y ago
> but I also think bargains have disappeared I think the big one is the people who produce inflation statistics struggle to capture increases when products change, particularly shrinkflation. The ONS (Who produce the UK inflation statistics) specifically noted limitations in their methodology because when a particular product (whether that's a particular brand, or specific size) is discontinued, they replace it in their subsequent basket with a similar item for measuring inflation but don't measure the change in inflation from the change in product. For example a 25p can of peas may be withdrawn from sale by the manufacturer, so the next month ONS would switch to checking the price of a 30p can of peas (the next cheapest can). The fact that people who were buying that can of peas now have to pay 5p more for peas is never captured in inflation.
- epups 3y ago
  This is definitely part of the problem, and another issue is quality decrease. Sure, maybe a given item has only increased 80% in price, but perhaps now the quality has decreased so that ultimately you are comparing apples to oranges.
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    The fun thing with quality is that statistics agencies are in fact trying to include quality change in their inflation calculation (it's called hedonic adjustment) but AFAIK they only do it for “objective quality” increases (like when CPU clock frequency increases or Disk Size increase), not when actual quality decreases.
- nradov 3y ago
  BLS personnel don't "struggle" to capture shrinkflation. They are well aware of the issue and always normalize prices by actual weight or volume. Have you read their documentation?

majormajor 3y ago

The Whataburger I got way-too-frequently for just under $6 in 2001 is like $10 bucks now. MSRP of a 99 M3 = 46k; 2023 stating at $74300. Outside of housing and gas I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that's more than double the cost. GPUs, I suppose, but that's a weird hobby transition + a lot more industrial uses. That said, housing+gas == huge parts of people's day to day lives, obviously.

anonymoushn 3y ago
College tuition and health insurance :)
- doubleg72 3y ago
  Definitely not doubled
  - anonymoushn 3y ago
    https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college-by-year https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Figure-1-12.png https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Figure-1-12.p...
- jtbayly 3y ago
  Good news! Health insurance has dropped by 37% in the last year, according to the CPI. I tried to ask HN about this a day or so ago… https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37880185 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37880185
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    [dead]
  - netrus 3y ago
    It's an artifact of how the measurement is made, as it accounts for insurance profits. While a good proxy in normal times, corona sent this measure into a wild rollercoaster-ride. However, it is generally a good idea not to change the method of measuring because you do not like the measures in the short term. The most important measure is the headline number (and MoM is more informative than YoY in these times), as it is the basis for actual politics. The headline number absorbs a lot of craziness in the underlying measures.

paulpauper 3y ago

Compounding is the 8th wonder in the world for this reason. It's amazing how in the span of a few decades how much prices have gone up. Except for clothes and electronics, everything seems to have gotten way more expensive compared to cpi. but even iPhones still cost a lot. The situation seems out of control for things like tuition .

onthecanposting 3y ago
Compounding interest on savings for most of us is much less than inflation, so the purchasing power of work done gradually dwindles to nothing over time. Pretty depressing.
- sgerenser 3y ago
  I think we’ve finally hit the point where compound interest on savings is outpacing inflation (at least in the US). Savings accounts at 5%+ interest are now widely available as long as you avoid the big banks like Chase and BofA. Meanwhile inflation is still elevated, but at least its well below 5%. OTOH, the prior 10+ years even when inflation wasn’t very high, 1% or so interest rates meant savers were falling farther and farther behind.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    That’s an interesting point and might end up being true. But inflation vs. savings rates over the past 2 years dwarf that benefit.
- logicchains 3y ago
  The really depressing thing is it's not just a diminishment of purchasing power, it's a transfer of purchasing power to those who first get to spend the newly created money (which tends to be financial institutions and people with the wealth/connections to gey big loans). Which needn't necessarily be the case, if the inflation occurred via evenly distributed "helicopter money" rather than the current approach.
- mactrey 3y ago

jvalencia 3y ago

In 1999 I regularly paid $10 to fill my tank. It takes $50+ for the same tank size today. I ate a meal with a drink at Taco Bell for $2-3.

bbatha 3y ago
And in 2004 I regularly paid $50+.
jclardy 3y ago
Taco bell is the most ridiculous now. If I eat there I will only order a $2-$3 "value" burrito. The moment you order any kind of combo, you are out $10+.
- hotnfresh 3y ago
  Every fast food place now requires using their apps and shit to get what ought to be menu prices, judging by what the prices were before. They require “hacking” and careful deal-hunting to get the kind of bargains that used to be available with ordinary specials and coupons and such. You can still “win” against e.g. Taco Bell, but it’s much harder. Ordinary menu prices everywhere are ripoff-tier.
ratsbane 3y ago
Changes in technology do shift the market baskets that we buy. I now pay $7 to do the equivalent of "filling my tank" when I charge at home.
jjav 3y ago
> I ate a meal with a drink at Taco Bell for $2-3. Taco Bell in particular has gone mad, I don't see how they can survive with current pricing. I used to go often, knowing it wasn't good quality but it was oh so cheap. Today their prices are so high that I can go to a local taqueria and get a giant burrito with far better and fresher ingredients and friendlier service for less money than a few mystery meat tacos from Taco Bell. So on the positive side, I now only frequent the local business with good quality food.

pjscott 3y ago

This probably varies from place to place. A high-quality double cheeseburger in my area can be had for $6.19, and adding tomato is only a little extra. (I checked prices a minute ago, so these numbers are fresh.)

onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago

> Food has gotten insanely expensive in that time. > Anecdotally, I can remember a burger at a restaurant was about $6 in 1999. Now average seems to be 15 to 20. When you go to a restaurant, you're mostly buying labor. It's not a good benchmark for food prices.

HarryHirsch 3y ago
When you go to a restaurant, you're mostly buying labor Wages have stagnated, but rent and energy has gone up. It's mostly the rent that you are paying for when you eat out.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Maybe where you are. Service industry job wages have all gone up significantly since pre-covid where I live.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Wages have not stagnated. It's been a defining feature of our COVID inflation that inequality stats have gotten better. Specifically in HCOL coastal cities, we've seen increases to minimum wage, adjustments to the "tipped minimum wage" laws that mean business needs to cover more of the wage, and finally.. labor shortages causing restaurants to pay over even those increased minimums. It wasn't long ago NYC minimum wage was under $10/hr, with "tipped minimum" being $7/hr. Now you have some restaurants paying $20/hr to get staff.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y ago
  Personal income has not stagnated in constant terms (or real terms): https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-trends-analysis/per_capita_personal_income/tools/0/0/ https://united-states.reaproject.org/analysis/comparative-tr...
nonethewiser 3y ago
> It's not a good benchmark for food prices. I don’t think the original comment depended on this being a good benchmark for food prices. Paying more for labor is also part of inflation.

smeej 3y ago

Carl's Jr./Hardee's even advertised "The $6 Burger," which sold for about half that, as a way to say, "Look, you can get a restaurant-quality burger at our fast food chain for leas money."

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Carl's Jr./Hardee's even advertised "The $6 Burger," which sold for about half that Close to 2/3 ($3.95) when introduced in 2001. The renamed 1/2-pound Original Thickburger is now $5.79, or 1.47× the 2001 price.