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CIA publicly acknowledges 1953 coup it backed in Iran was undemocratic
- nebula8804 3y agoCIA runs a podcast?! Man everyones got a podcast these days. Everyone is jealous that Joe Rogan got 200 million when before these things were considered worthless. I should start a podcast.
- readthenotes1 3y agoThey've got quite a bit of content to work from, if the CIA just looks at how they interfered with operations of other countries in the late 20th century
- 0max 3y agoLockheed Martin has a fashion line in South Korea, welcome to idk what were in and what to compare it to.
- hiatus 3y agoApparently, also available in the US. > You can get Lockheed Martin-branded apparel in the states, but it won’t have the same stylish cut or design. American manufacturers of promotional products, like Brand Junkie, in Cypress, Texas, also work with Lockheed Martin to “create unique products and sustain fulfillment programs and e-stores,” according to the Brand Junkie website. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/style/lockheed-martin-fashion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/style/lockheed-martin-fas...
- leeoniya 3y ago> Lockheed Martin has a fashion line i assume made exclusively of titanium and composites?
- callalex 3y agoWhen you put your money in a pocket it automatically sets it on fire and provides nothing in return.
- nebula8804 3y agoWow looks like you weren't kidding. They also don't look half bad. [1]:https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/09/10/fashion/07LOCKHEED-MERCH-01-jpwb/07LOCKHEED-MERCH-01-jpwb-superJumbo.jpg https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/09/10/fashion/07LOCKHEE... [2]:https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/style/lockheed-martin-fashion.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/style/lockheed-martin-fas... Love this quote from the NY Times article: “They stopped killing people for just a second to help you kill those looks”
- SSLy 3y agoI think this particular line might have been caused by the overall debauchery at r/NCD.
- Noma 3y agoIt's not their line. They licensed their name and branding to another company. The same has been done with other brands like National Geographic, Discovery, Kodak, Jeep, etc.
- 7moritz7 3y agoIt's also the first noteworthy brand I've seen sell down jackets without disclosing any ethical measures or certifications.
- interestica 3y agoHitachi: Nuclear plants and sex toys (https://nuclear.gepower.com/company-info/about-ge-hitachi https://nuclear.gepower.com/company-info/about-ge-hitachi) (https://web.archive.org/web/20140827183517/http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/27/history-of-the-hitachi-magic-wand/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140827183517/http://www.engadg...)
- LindeBuzoGray 3y ago[flagged]
- jfengel 3y ago“CIA’s leadership is committed to being as open with the public as possible,” Then they've got a long way to go. Everybody already knew that the Shah's coup was planned and backed by the CIA. That was part of a long and ugly history of CIA covert operations that have backfired spectacularly. It's not unreasonable to trace the Sunday's horrors in Israel to that event in 1953. I really hate the way events like that justified so much conspiracy-theory thinking. The CIA gets blamed for anything and everything, much of false and outright deranged. But there was a time that the CIA was responsible for an awful lot of heinous things, and the ousting of Mossadegh is just one. Maybe, just maybe, they can issue a long string of mea culpas and the US can begin to repair its absolutely horrific reputation in the Middle East, Latin America, and elsewhere. But it took seven decades to come clean about this one, and it's going to take many more decades to undo the damage it did.
- cempaka 3y ago> I really hate the way events like that justified so much conspiracy-theory thinking. Probably because the people who theorized that there had been a conspiracy turned out to be correct, and the usual bromide objections ("someone would have talked," "more than 50 people can never keep a secret," "the government just isn't that competent," etc) were shown to be entirely false.
- downWidOutaFite 3y agoConspiracy theorists can be wrong about 100 things before they're right about one thing. They're useless for understanding the current state of the world.
- AwaAwa 3y agoUntil that percentage starts to improve dramatically like in the last 5 years.
- gustavus 3y agoExactly after all the conspiracy theorists were only right about - Iraq WMDs - MkUltra - The Crack Epidemic - Watergate - Glados - Paperclip - Robert Kennedy car crash - Epstien But they just got lucky a bunch.
- koromak 3y agoGreat, now do Pinochet
- sillywalk 3y agoAlso, Guatemala, 1954 Indonesia, 1957-8, 1965 Congo, 1960 Laos, 1960 Dominican Republic, 1961 South Vietnam, 1963 Brazil, 1964 Nicaragua, 1980 Haiti, 1991, 2004 https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-governments-the-u-s-has-overthrown/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/20/mapped-the-7-government... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
- grecy 3y agoLiberty and Freedom, all the way down.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoVery on-topic, stimulating, and technical news right here. Meanwhile... /s
- INTPenis 3y agoIt seemed like the right idea at the time, now everyone who did is dead and new eyes are looking at it from their own perspective. But these new eyes will do similar things that seem like the right thing to do at the time, to them. It's just a cycle.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y agoDid it seem like the “right” thing to do at the time, or just the thing that would allow us more access to oil at the expense of everyone in the future
- INTPenis 3y agoDepends on who's perspective you look from. I'm one of those who believes that geopolitics is a lot more complicated than just one will, one goal, one result. I belive it's more like a lot of different people with a lot of different motivations. And in that mix are maybe certain people who have a knack for understanding the motivations of their peers, and exploiting them to their own ends.
- crazygringo 3y agoNo it didn't. Just like everything, it seemed like a good idea to some people, and a bad idea to others. The notion that "it seemed like the right idea at the time" ignores all of the people in government who thought it was a terrible idea. Oftentimes it's very much historical accident who happens to be making the final decision and who they happen to be listening to.
- creamynebula 3y agoThey did it all over Latin America and Africa during the entire cold war as well. And, I assume, they still back coups all around, if it is deemed that the dictatorship to be instated will better foster the interests of the government of the United States and the oligarchies behind it...
- ImHereToVote 3y agoExcept the current thing. To suggest that the CIA is involved in the current thing is cuckoo. Past things, yes. But never the current thing.
- ganeshkrishnan 3y agoALSO: It's ok to criticize US for the past war, for faking evidence in UN and making up excuses to invade a country. But to critique US involvement in Ukraine which is extinguishing a whole country with their forced mobilization just for the sake of drip buying US arms? That's heresy and punishable with de-platforming.
- starik36 3y agoThe Russian trolls never seem to take a rest.
- redeeman 3y agocare to attack his argument instead?
- ImHereToVote 3y ago[flagged]
- mywittyname 3y agoUkraine is fighting for their continued independent existence. They know that, if they lose, they will be the victims of genocide (as those in occupied lands have encountered).
- readyplayernull 3y agoAnd they hanged one of their own spies in 2006: https://archive.globalpolicy.org/iraq-conflict-the-historical-background-/us-and-british-support-for-huss-regime.html https://archive.globalpolicy.org/iraq-conflict-the-historica...
- assholeconny 3y ago[dead]
- apayan 3y agoThe book All the Shah's Men by Stephen Kinzer is an excellent narration of the time leading up to the coup, and the coup itself. I think it's fair to say that a lot of our problems with terrorism at the present all stemmed from this coup in Iran in 1953.
- dundarious 3y agoOne of the CIA's in-house historians, who the following year went on to become CIA Chief Historian, David Robarge, wrote this review of All the Shah's Men in 2004: https://www.cia.gov/static/all-the-shahs-men.pdf https://www.cia.gov/static/all-the-shahs-men.pdf > In All the Shah's Men, Stephen Kinzer of the New York Times sugests that the explanation may lie next door in Iran, where the CIA carried out its first successful regime-change operation over half a century ago. The target was not an oppressive Soviet puppet but a democratically elected government whose populist ideology and nationalist fervor threatened Western economic and geopolitical interests. The CIA's covert intervention—codenamed TPAJAX—preserved the Shah's power and protected Western control of a hugely lucrative oil infrastructure. It also transformed a turbulent constitutional monarchy into an absolutist kingship and induced a succession of unintended consequences at least as far ahead as the Islamic revolution of 1979—and, Kinzer argues in his breezily written, well-researched popular history, perhaps to today. Nearly 20 years ago already, this was an admission of a coup against a democratically elected government, instituting an "absolutist kingship", with "unintended consequences". All of this used to be available in HTML before the recent CIA website redesign. People would do well to read old books, and even watch old television news programs and documentary programs like those from CBS, all the way back to the 60s, before thinking that this wasn't in some sense, common knowledge, at least among those who attempt to be knowledgeable. One great success of the CIA has been that this and a litany of similar events have been hiding in plain sight, and that it is "conspiratorial thinking" just to remember this stuff.
- ghusto 3y agoGreat. Thanks. I'll just go back to my country, since it's all gravy then. Arse-hats.
- arminiusreturns 3y agoCoincidence theorists are the real crazies.
- swatcoder 3y agoRephrased: "We've confirmed that the last individual who could be held responsible is dead so we don't care if you know anymore."
- recursiveturtle 3y agoLikely, JFK and other, more recent contested narratives will follow the same mortal algorithm.
- k__ 3y agoBut aren't the fundamentalists that came after the revolution the problem?
- text0404 3y agowhy did the revolution happen?
- justincredible 3y ago[dead]
- Tomis02 3y agoThe coup overthrew the prime minister and solidified thr power of the Shah. Down the line this led to people being unhappy and the fundamentalist revolution taking place. It's probably fair to say that the actions of the Americans and the Brits had catastrophic consequences that are visible even today. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9ta...
- gunapologist99 3y agoQuite the understatement from TFA: "That complicates the public’s understanding of an event that still resonates, as tensions remain high between Tehran and Washington over the Islamic Republic’s rapidly advancing nuclear program, its aiding of militia groups across the Mideast and as it cracks down on dissent." The timing of this mea culpa from the CIA is very interesting. Is the CIA essentially saying "oops, sorry"? And if so, why, and why now, at this moment?
- chaosbolt 3y agoGood to know 70 years after the fact when no one cares anymore, and good to know that HN will argue against the CIA doing the same thing in Ukraine in 2014 because "the CIA or the CIA controlled news channels haven't publicly acknowledged it yet", it's not like we have something called the internet and it's not like an engineer can do research by themselves and differenciate between real and false information and critically think about things without letting their emotions push them too much into one side, nah all those who research things themselves are conspiracy theorists who believe the earth is flat, and the only way to know is to wait until 2084 for the CIA to publicly acknowlege it lol...
- ImHereToVote 3y agoThe NED was responsible for Ukraine. This makes it democratic by definition. Kinda like the Mosaddegh overthrow was intelligent by definition, since it was orchestrated by the CIA.
- thewileyone 3y agoThe NED is also responsible for many "softer" incidents around the world like the Hong Kong protests.
- keymasta 3y agoIt seems there are two types of people. Those who think governmental/financial/legal/medical/technological/etc systems generally serve the public's interests, and those who don't. Internally I refer to the former as "systemic" people. They believe something is good for you because the FDA said so. I find that these people also buy into capitalism. E.g, poor people shouldn't be so stupid/lazy, or their parents shouldn't have been stupid/lazy. I find these people often are privileged and benefit from power imbalances imposed by the system. But it's hard to relate to that once you can see reality more accurately. Classic "conspiracy theory": The term "conspiracy theory" was concocted by the CIA as a label for anyone talking about the JFK assassination. And it was never put to bed. I see the term increasing in usage over time as well. But yeah, systemic people gonna system. Weirdly it seems they outnumber people who form their own opinions.
- n1b0m 3y agoStill waiting for the UK to finally acknowledge its leading role in the coup
- oatmeal1 3y agoIf you ask "why do they hate us?" the answer is usually in a history book.
- Simulacra 3y agoIn my opinion, it was reinstating the Shah that directly led to what we are seeing in Israel today, and terrorism across the Middle East.
- pjmlp 3y agoWhat a surprise.
- mannyv 3y agoIt's amusing that people care because the US has never really been a Democracy. There are democratic elements, but overall the original colonists (except for New Englanders) were horrified at the idea of letting "the people" anywhere near the levers of power...much less voting. In most cases you get The Taliban, whatever the post-Mubarak government was, or ineffective governments that can't even wipe their own assholes (Latin America, Africa, Haiti).
- thewileyone 3y agoThe American Revolution was led by rich landowners who didn't want to pay more taxes and the poor masses were roped into going along with it. In contrast, the French Revolution was led by intellectuals and demagogues against cruel and unjust power held by the aristocracy and the rich; the poor masses joined willingly. This is why when the French are unhappy, they protest and riot because they feel empowered. Meanwhile, Americans wait for someone to lead them.
- sbochins 3y ago[flagged]
- SenAnder 3y agoDon't expect the corporate media to examine the CIA's more recent operations too critically (or report on them at all) - they're riddled with "ex" CIA and other government agents: https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/23/cnn-msnbc-15-spooks-mccabe/ https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/23/cnn-msnbc-15-spooks-mccab... And please spare us with the excuse that they just hire subject matter experts. You would not accept such logic for Russia or China. Though the NYTimes are far from perfect or impartial, they are at least good at appearing neutral (one has to gather statistics on how they cherry-pick stories to see their well-hidden but strong bias). Their journalist ethics guidelines warn against the appearance of bias, and their reporters aren't allowed to give political donations: https://www.nytimes.com/editorial-standards/ethical-journalism.html#protectingThePapersNeutrality https://www.nytimes.com/editorial-standards/ethical-journali...
- sharts 3y agoPretty sure everyone knows that every coup is undemocratic.
- ilkke 3y agoAren't all coups undemocratic by definition?
- geekraver 3y agoAll coups are undemocratic by definition. Anti-democratic might be a better description for 1953.
- e900542 3y agoDear CIA, thank you for the acknowledgement. Please take a good look in the mirror to see if anything has changed.
- dang 3y agoCould you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- ryan-allen 3y agoWhy is the CIA telling us _now_ is a much more interesting question.
- jeo123 3y agoThe major issue here is why no one in CIA getting punished? There need to out the names and let the public do their justice as how Asian side done for millenia - unalivement of the whole family clans for decades or centuries to come as inspired by true event King Goujian.
- thewileyone 3y agoA lot talk about the CIA's overseas actions, but what about the crack epidemic it inflicted on Americans to fund the Contras?