8 ms·

Tesla is launching their developer APIs

94 points by nikunjk 3y ago

peoplearepeople 3y ago
> After signing in, get started and provide your legal business details, app name, description and purpose of usage. That's an annoying amount of work if you just want to access your own car
- mezeek 3y ago
  then... just use the Tesla app?
  - riddley 3y ago
    There's some FOSS called TeslaMate that piggy backs on credentials you can steal from your Tesla app. It monitors and records all manner of statistics for whatever purpose you choose. It can also integrate with Home Assistant and all of the wonderful things it can do. The Tesla app shows a tiny amount of information in comparison and none of it is actionable by automations I write.
- ejlxsh 3y ago
  Automotive software is a regulated space, there's no way the idea of these APIs is developers tinkering with their Tesla for fun (it allows remote execution!) but rather large businesses integrating their apps with Tesla, like Microsoft or OpenAI or something.
  - stcredzero 3y ago
    Someone could start a business to enable such tinkering. However, that doesn’t seem like a profitable business to be in at all. Potential downsides seem huge, and potential upside seems tiny.
  - DennisP 3y ago
    Or fleet owners. The docs have a lot of stuff useful for fleets.
croisillon 3y ago
$42k per month, quite a good deal
- andruby 3y ago
  Where is the price listed?
  - croisillon 3y ago
    it's a joke, based on Twitter's (alleged?) API pricing
mvdtnz 3y ago
Does anyone actually get approved to use these APIs? Or is this another example of Tesla making big claims of openness without following through?
- brentm 3y ago
  There are 3rd party Tesla apps (Tessie.com) that I presume are.
- tomschlick 3y ago
  Given that this is named "Fleet API", I'd wager that its pointed at corporations that own a bunch of Teslas for employee use, or for companies looking to start a Tesla based rental car company more than anything.
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    I have no idea what you think your comment has to do with my question, but ok?
    - pests 3y ago
      Companies probably get approved.
    - mattkrause 3y ago
      I think they’re predicting that most of the API usage will be “private”, so you won’t see Direct-To-Consumer “Download this on your Tesla” apps. Instead, your rental or motor pool Tesla will just have a few customizations.
  - vsl 3y ago
    It's named "Fleet API", because Tesla refers to the Teslas out there as "fleet".
- tjungblut 3y ago
  Just tried to sign up, got an immediate rejection.
ejlxsh 3y ago
I cannot wait for HackerOne or similar bug bounty sites to have a go with this https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock Oh my god, what a cool sounding endpoint https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#set_bioweapon_mode https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#set_bioweapon_mod... Edit: This is coming up to EOL, Tesla has an SDK you should use now
- leoqa 3y ago
  I hate to tell you this but there is a "login" and "password_reset" API on Google.com!
  - warkdarrior 3y ago
    How dare they! I only log in via fax request/response. Although the cookie values have gotten longer and longer -- a pain in the butt to type from the fax reply into my web browser. Any ideas?
- antmldr 3y ago
  https://bugcrowd.com/tesla https://bugcrowd.com/tesla :)
- modeless 3y ago
  These or equivalent APIs have been available and unofficially documented and used by third parties for many, many years. And Tesla has been doing Pwn2Own and bug bounties for a long time.
whitej125 3y ago
Wish there was a way to extend voice commands in the car... my own "Alexa skills" but for Tesla so to speak. Even if the only output could be a tweet sized text box. I would ask questions like... "what streets around here have parking meters" and give me a list to look out for. Quick glance through the API docs and I'm not seeing it.
- pests 3y ago
  Why not ask the phone you also have with you? Why does the car also need to be N assistant?
  - izacus 3y ago
    That would imply that Tesla would implement industry standard CarPlay/Android Auto support and we can't have that.
    - yreg 3y ago
      CarPlay is irelevant for this use case. You can say Hey Siri/OK Google into the air and just state your request. The phone can connect to the audio system via Bluetooth just like in any other car.
      - izacus 3y ago
        So, experience with CarPlay/Auto: * Press speak button on the steering wheel, speak the query (via car microphone), hear answer via car stereo system with UI response rendered on cars' screen while having the ability to actually control apps on your phone which can then render on car screen. * Yell at your phone over the car noise and only hear response via audio link and have no ability to control the infotainment system or apps on the phone. Those are equivalent for you? :D
        yreg 3y ago
        Have you tried it? Siri hears me perfectly well in the car without having to yell. The car is rather silent afterall. (Siri is a bad assistant, but that's a separate problem.) CarPlay would be great but I don't see the relevance to this use case.
ireallywantthat 3y ago
Another SAAS embedded within Car which cannot be opted out. Is there a way to get FOSS Tesla? IMO the Government must intervene to make this opt-in rather than compulsory?
- t3rabytes 3y ago
  ?? You have to grant an app access to your car via the API with your own Tesla.com oauth creds.
  - ireallywantthat 3y ago
    Will it work without Tesla.com account? Or no internet access at all? I just want to drive the Tesla car without internet without any smart features. Is that possible?
    - Rygian 3y ago
      Like any other car, if you have the physical key* you can open it and drive it. You do need an account with Tesla to buy a new one though. *and PIN if applicable
    - Corrado 3y ago
      Yes, you can drive the car without a Tesla.com account. You miss out on important features such as software updates, remote monitoring/alerting, and the ability to SuperCharge. However you can charge at home or at other Level 2 chargers. And once the NACS plug becomes more widespread you should be able to DC fast charge at non-SuperCharger locations.
- flkenosad 3y ago
  FOSS laws never made as much sense. How can we not have the right to understand how our 3000 lb death machines work?
  - hkxer 3y ago
    No one’s forcing you to use them
zeryx 3y ago
I can't wait for the opposite of this; Tesla App Store will be an insane value-add feature; for both owners and app developers.
- nixass 3y ago
  This sounds dystopian, but it's very close to happening. Unfortunately
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  Can you give a singular example
  - yreg 3y ago
    Waze.
  - tannedNerd 3y ago
    I would love Overcast. The podcast app sucks and the dev has mentioned he would probably do it if they released an SDK.
    - kridsdale3 3y ago
      None of this matters to me because I have a car that actually has CarPlay. Living in the future.
  - zeryx 3y ago
    steam, weather forecast updates, waze, better games (steam?), whatsapp, telegram, zoom, google meet, etc
sulam 3y ago
Given the state of the Twitter API post-Elon, I'd be incredibly unlikely to rely on this unless I have a business contract directly with Tesla with appropriate penalties if my app / access were to be revoked.
- testfrequency 3y ago
  Tesla Engineering has their shit together, Elon is very detached from their work. Comparing Tesla to Twitter is not reasonable
  - LambdaComplex 3y ago
    > Tesla Engineering has their shit together The pictures I've seen of panel gaps on their cars say otherwise
    - meragrin_ 3y ago
      I doubt engineering is intimately involved in the day to day production.
      - testfrequency 3y ago
        Should have known all the Tesla masters would dogpile on me defending their SOFTWARE ENGINEERING team. I’m in no way talking about their manufacturing and assembly teams, strictly software. Everyone is so hostile towards Tesla, settle down. There’s a ton of ex-meta, apple, uber swe’s at Tesla, they are not some unskilled and unprofessional engineers. I really miss the old HN community, all anyone does here now is complain and disagree
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-r1s-and-r1t-present-weird-panel-gaps-and-quality-control-issues-206559.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-r1s-and-r1t-presen... https://insideevs.com/news/405366/porsche-taycan-panel-gap-video/ https://insideevs.com/news/405366/porsche-taycan-panel-gap-v... https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/minor-gap-between-dash-and-gauge-cluster-trim.13607/ https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/minor-gap-b... Which new EV isn’t having issues with Panel gaps?
Multiplayer 3y ago
If you are wondering about the state of auto API's here's a partial list of loads of makes and models that have some form of over the air endpoints via a 3rd party: https://connectyourcar.com/compatibility/makes/ https://connectyourcar.com/compatibility/makes/
- zbowling 3y ago
  that isn't a list of cars that support anything "via 3rd party" or have APIs. these are mostly cars with first party over the air apps.
  - Multiplayer 3y ago
    It's a list of cars that you can connect to smartcar.com and then access endpoints via the smartcar api. Other than that you are totally correct. https://smartcar.com/ https://smartcar.com/
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
oldgun 3y ago
I'd like to hear a security expert's take on this. Something about this makes me feel real nervous.
- texuf 3y ago
  It’s better that what people are currently doing. You can cut and paste your auth token into 3rd party services that will give you stats and remote control over your car. As of 6 months ago there was no way to manually revoke an auth token
- andrewstuart2 3y ago
  I mean, oauth2 is pretty much the standard/best practice for third party access to user-controlled identity and/or resource permissions. I'd like to know more about scopes and how they do authz, but as far as access goes, this has the makings of a best practices implementation like you'd see from Google, reddit, etc. Fine grained access control via scopes, user-facing "you want this app to get access to <list> permissions?" and the ability to later revoke that access. I'm sure you can find people who'd disagree, but it's far better to build on a standard than something homegrown.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    oauth2 was the best practice way to do that back in 2014. Now, companies like Facebook have discovered the hard way that most users don't think carefully before giving away access to their data. All it takes is one app that says "I'd like access to everything you can see on facebook please", and that's how cambridge analytica happened. Ever since then, the vast majority of companies have locked down API's - because the company doesn't want to get in legal hot water for the actions of a third party app granted full access by the user.
    - andrewstuart2 3y ago
      That doesn't mean oauth2 isn't still the best practice. I'd go as far as saying OIDC is best practice for oauth2 as well. What you're saying is orthogonal and more about figuring out how to effectively manage users and the accesses they can grant, how easily they can grant certain permisisons, how often they should review access, all that. Facebook has had issues there, and I'd say Android has also had issues with similarly vague/permissive grants (local-only, completely outside OAuth2), and has learned ways to proactively manage those for users and keep sets of permissions minimized to apps you actively use/want. But none of those really has much to do with whether or not oauth2 is a great way to allow third party access to user resources. That remains a really solid control mechanism.
flkenosad 3y ago
I'm calling for Tesla to open source all the code running onboard it's vehicles. Consumers have the right to understand how their machines work. Elon, you built an empire off the backs of open source developers. Give back.
- newsclues 3y ago
  Same for Tim At Apple? Same for Microsoft?
  - rpgwaiter 3y ago
    Yes.
- porphyra 3y ago
  Elon is not against open sourcing more code: https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/25/elon-musk-says-tesla-might-open-source-more-code-to-other-automakers/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/25/elon-musk-says-tesla-might... > Consumers have the right to understand how their machines work Windows and macOS aren't open source either and the vast majority of consumers don't care. It would be cool to be able to install an open source third party OS on your car though...
  - troupo 3y ago
    What Elon says, and what Elon actually thinks are two different non-intersecting sets. As evidenced by his actions
  - flkenosad 3y ago
    Windows and macOS aren't designed to operate heavy machinery and Linux is a viable alternative. Consumers don't care because they don't know. Consumers who do know, care.
- elkos 3y ago
  Tesla violated the GPL in the past https://techworm.net/programming/tesla-disclosed-autopilot-source-code/ https://techworm.net/programming/tesla-disclosed-autopilot-s... Are they in compliance with the GPL now?
brandensilva 3y ago
I wish they'd do the same for their solar panels. Trying to get to that solar panel data seems much harder than it should be.
- s900mhz 3y ago
  Same.. looking at you Generac
- modeless 3y ago
  Does this not include solar? I know Powerwall was part of the older API.
  - brandensilva 3y ago
    I tried signing up but was rejected. It did mention energy products so it might include it if you gain access. It looks like they are just doing a free trial to hook in business focused customers so I'm doubtful it would be a good source for personal use when Elon turns on the money spigot.
wedn3sday 3y ago
I take it as a sign of the current state of hackernews that nearly no one took the time to actually RTFA. This isnt about making apps that run on the car, this is about being able to integrate your external apps with the fleet API. Like, can external app that has permission would be able to locate the vehicle. That said, I think the security implications are fairly important, since I expect one of the exposed features is to be able to unlock or start the car.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > I expect one of the exposed features is to be able to unlock or start the car. I'd really like that (effectively allowing third parties to implement their own tesla app). However, I suspect that no/very few third parties will be allowed to have that API scope.
  - jejeyyy77 3y ago
    Why not? API calls are scoped to a token associated with your Tesla vehicle(s). This API looks like it is meant to control entire fleets. Also, like Apple devices, I assume Tesla will have master control over the cars in the same way and can brick them if needed.
    - MBCook 3y ago
      > Also, like Apple devices, I assume Tesla will have master control over the cars in the same way and can brick them if needed. They’ve done this in the past a few times haven’t they? Like when people have done battery swaps or refurbs without Tesla’s approval?
      - londons_explore 3y ago
        I don't think they have bricked peoples cars directly... They just take away the ability to do supercharging and to use the app. Basically, your smart car becomes a dumb car. But you can still drive it - you just can't use any service that requires their servers.
phkahler 3y ago
I don't understand some things, and I'm not going to phrase them as questions but just my opinions. 1) it seems silly to build anything on Teslas platform. 2) it seems silly for customers to add more commercial stuff on top of Teslas platform. Even as someone who develops software for a living, I think most tech out there today is stupid. Some is useful but most seems not. And occasionally someone shows me use for something I thought was dumb, but I can usually go on without it. Am I a luddite?
- yreg 3y ago
  I don't mean to offend, but I think ironically your comment is silly. If I understand you correctly, you think that there is no value to be added by software to a Tesla. There are very obvious counter examples. E.g. fleet management for rental cars or 3rd party navigation (in the case of these APIs running on a phone, but using the API for e.g. the current state of charge). There are countless other possible products to be built on top of Teslas platform.
andylynch 3y ago
Interesting. Home Assistant happened to post about this this afternoon after Mazda’s lawyers rattled sabres about the unofficial Mazda integration; they pointed to Tesla and moreover Audi VW as being much more constructive (including an official home assistant app for VW group’s on-board app platform)
yuliyp 3y ago
The capabilities of the vehicle_commands section are frighteningly diverse (able to control details of the charging systems, make noises, remotely prevent the car from moving, plug locations into the GPS (unclear if that'll cause autopilot to start moving there). I guess this means that the remote parts have basically unrestricted access to what they can do to the car that you theoretically own. Fun times.
- modeless 3y ago
  If you don't like it there is a toggle in the car to turn off remote access entirely. You can leave it off permanently if you want. If that's not enough for you then feel free to also remove the SIM card from the computer.
MBCook 3y ago
I would love to be able to get the data on my car for making a phone/watch app. Ford has an API but it’s private and they have revoked accounts of people using it. Too bad. It contains a ton of great stuff, more than their app surfaces. I’d be quite happy with just read-only access. I bet devs could make some great stuff.
andrewstuart2 3y ago
Free trial. Tesla APIs are temporarily free during this trial period. Oof. I wonder if this is one more reason Tesla vehicles have gotten cheaper and cheaper. Elon's probably betting on how much companies would pay for access to APIs and thus user data, and gain income to Tesla on top of simply profit margin on the vehicle itself. Much like he's doing at X. I wouldn't be that surprised to see Tesla data become a major part of X strategy as an "everything app" if he continues that path. Definitely has me second guessing the trigger I was about to pull on that Model 3 performance that just keeps getting cheaper.
- redox99 3y ago
  > Elon's probably betting on how much other people would pay for access to APIs and thus user data, and gain income on top of simply profit margin on the vehicle itself. Tesla doesn't expect end users to use this API. This is meant for fleets (like rental companies).
  - saurik 3y ago
    I feel like you are trying to say that you believe this comment to mean that they might try to sell access to the user data acquired from API usage, but I'm pretty sure the connection "and thus" is equating the APIs with user data, as companies paying for access to these APIs is--similar to having access to Facebook's APIs--giving them access to the user data that is accessible via those APIs.
    - redox99 3y ago
      That's a lot of hypotheticals. What I'm trying to say is that this is unrelated to regular folks' cars. For this you need to manually authorize access to your car, and then they can do things like unlock the doors[1]. It's meant for rental agencies and such. Not to scrap data of any Tesla owner (like Twitter Firehose) [1] https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock
- modeless 3y ago
todd3834 3y ago
For anyone wondering what you can actually do with this. The Fleet API link at the top is the documentation: https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api
whalesalad 3y ago
https://fleet-api.prd.na.vn.cloud.tesla.com/api/1/dx/charging/history https://fleet-api.prd.na.vn.cloud.tesla.com/api/1/dx/chargin... that is quite the api url
efitz 3y ago
Nice! I wrote an Alexa skill years ago but had to use a reverse engineered API and stored password in AWS. My GitHub is in my profile; the very ugly code is up there.
xyst 3y ago
Is the api page down for anybody else? https://www.developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api https://www.developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api
amelius 3y ago
The most important question: Can I use the car as intended without dealing with the vendor (Tesla)? If not => it's a service, not a product.
- yreg 3y ago
  Not the most important question since it has nothing to do with the fleet developer API. But yes, if you are fine with not using Superchargers (which would be insane) or the built-in internet then you don't need to deal with the vendor after purchasing the car.
  - amelius 3y ago
    The whole point is that these services could be provided by other service-providers. This is like a car of brand X that only accepts fuel of brand X (except now it is a service like internet or an API). (No pun intended with the X)
    - yreg 3y ago
      You can use your own internet connection, the car connects to WiFi. As for the API, then yes, if you want to buy a fleet of Teslas and manage them with your custom software, you need to go through Tesla. That API is a service and not a product. The car is still a product though.
tannedNerd 3y ago
The charging api end points are also interesting here. I imagine thats it will get more fleshed out for the all the other manufactures in the US to start using the superchargers.
zedpm 3y ago
I'm glad to see they didn't forget about HTTP 418[0] in their response code docs[1]. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418 [1]: https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#response-codes https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#response-codes
braza 3y ago
Non related question: there are some examples of good public APIs docs? I would like to develop a product that serves an API but it’s very hard to get a great API as template.
- RobertSponge 3y ago
  Stripe public api docs are quite good IMO
pfista 3y ago
Every app I try to submit gets auto-rejected with no reason why. Has anyone else been able to get approval for their app?

94 points by nikunjk 3y ago

> After signing in, get started and provide your legal business details, app name, description and purpose of usage. That's an annoying amount of work if you just want to access your own car

mezeek 3y ago
then... just use the Tesla app?
- riddley 3y ago
  There's some FOSS called TeslaMate that piggy backs on credentials you can steal from your Tesla app. It monitors and records all manner of statistics for whatever purpose you choose. It can also integrate with Home Assistant and all of the wonderful things it can do. The Tesla app shows a tiny amount of information in comparison and none of it is actionable by automations I write.
ejlxsh 3y ago
Automotive software is a regulated space, there's no way the idea of these APIs is developers tinkering with their Tesla for fun (it allows remote execution!) but rather large businesses integrating their apps with Tesla, like Microsoft or OpenAI or something.
- stcredzero 3y ago
  Someone could start a business to enable such tinkering. However, that doesn’t seem like a profitable business to be in at all. Potential downsides seem huge, and potential upside seems tiny.
- DennisP 3y ago
  Or fleet owners. The docs have a lot of stuff useful for fleets.

croisillon 3y ago

$42k per month, quite a good deal

andruby 3y ago
Where is the price listed?
- croisillon 3y ago
  it's a joke, based on Twitter's (alleged?) API pricing

mvdtnz 3y ago

Does anyone actually get approved to use these APIs? Or is this another example of Tesla making big claims of openness without following through?

brentm 3y ago
There are 3rd party Tesla apps (Tessie.com) that I presume are.
tomschlick 3y ago
Given that this is named "Fleet API", I'd wager that its pointed at corporations that own a bunch of Teslas for employee use, or for companies looking to start a Tesla based rental car company more than anything.
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  I have no idea what you think your comment has to do with my question, but ok?
  - pests 3y ago
    Companies probably get approved.
  - mattkrause 3y ago
    I think they’re predicting that most of the API usage will be “private”, so you won’t see Direct-To-Consumer “Download this on your Tesla” apps. Instead, your rental or motor pool Tesla will just have a few customizations.
- vsl 3y ago
  It's named "Fleet API", because Tesla refers to the Teslas out there as "fleet".
tjungblut 3y ago
Just tried to sign up, got an immediate rejection.

ejlxsh 3y ago

I cannot wait for HackerOne or similar bug bounty sites to have a go with this https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock Oh my god, what a cool sounding endpoint https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#set_bioweapon_mode https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#set_bioweapon_mod... Edit: This is coming up to EOL, Tesla has an SDK you should use now

leoqa 3y ago
I hate to tell you this but there is a "login" and "password_reset" API on Google.com!
- warkdarrior 3y ago
  How dare they! I only log in via fax request/response. Although the cookie values have gotten longer and longer -- a pain in the butt to type from the fax reply into my web browser. Any ideas?
antmldr 3y ago
https://bugcrowd.com/tesla https://bugcrowd.com/tesla :)
modeless 3y ago
These or equivalent APIs have been available and unofficially documented and used by third parties for many, many years. And Tesla has been doing Pwn2Own and bug bounties for a long time.

whitej125 3y ago

Wish there was a way to extend voice commands in the car... my own "Alexa skills" but for Tesla so to speak. Even if the only output could be a tweet sized text box. I would ask questions like... "what streets around here have parking meters" and give me a list to look out for. Quick glance through the API docs and I'm not seeing it.

pests 3y ago
Why not ask the phone you also have with you? Why does the car also need to be N assistant?
- izacus 3y ago
  That would imply that Tesla would implement industry standard CarPlay/Android Auto support and we can't have that.
  - yreg 3y ago
    CarPlay is irelevant for this use case. You can say Hey Siri/OK Google into the air and just state your request. The phone can connect to the audio system via Bluetooth just like in any other car.
    - izacus 3y ago
      So, experience with CarPlay/Auto: * Press speak button on the steering wheel, speak the query (via car microphone), hear answer via car stereo system with UI response rendered on cars' screen while having the ability to actually control apps on your phone which can then render on car screen. * Yell at your phone over the car noise and only hear response via audio link and have no ability to control the infotainment system or apps on the phone. Those are equivalent for you? :D
      - yreg 3y ago
        Have you tried it? Siri hears me perfectly well in the car without having to yell. The car is rather silent afterall. (Siri is a bad assistant, but that's a separate problem.) CarPlay would be great but I don't see the relevance to this use case.

ireallywantthat 3y ago

Another SAAS embedded within Car which cannot be opted out. Is there a way to get FOSS Tesla? IMO the Government must intervene to make this opt-in rather than compulsory?

t3rabytes 3y ago
?? You have to grant an app access to your car via the API with your own Tesla.com oauth creds.
- ireallywantthat 3y ago
  Will it work without Tesla.com account? Or no internet access at all? I just want to drive the Tesla car without internet without any smart features. Is that possible?
  - Rygian 3y ago
    Like any other car, if you have the physical key* you can open it and drive it. You do need an account with Tesla to buy a new one though. *and PIN if applicable
  - Corrado 3y ago
    Yes, you can drive the car without a Tesla.com account. You miss out on important features such as software updates, remote monitoring/alerting, and the ability to SuperCharge. However you can charge at home or at other Level 2 chargers. And once the NACS plug becomes more widespread you should be able to DC fast charge at non-SuperCharger locations.
flkenosad 3y ago
FOSS laws never made as much sense. How can we not have the right to understand how our 3000 lb death machines work?
- hkxer 3y ago
  No one’s forcing you to use them

zeryx 3y ago

I can't wait for the opposite of this; Tesla App Store will be an insane value-add feature; for both owners and app developers.

nixass 3y ago
This sounds dystopian, but it's very close to happening. Unfortunately
michaelmrose 3y ago
Can you give a singular example
- yreg 3y ago
  Waze.
- tannedNerd 3y ago
  I would love Overcast. The podcast app sucks and the dev has mentioned he would probably do it if they released an SDK.
  - kridsdale3 3y ago
    None of this matters to me because I have a car that actually has CarPlay. Living in the future.
- zeryx 3y ago
  steam, weather forecast updates, waze, better games (steam?), whatsapp, telegram, zoom, google meet, etc

sulam 3y ago

Given the state of the Twitter API post-Elon, I'd be incredibly unlikely to rely on this unless I have a business contract directly with Tesla with appropriate penalties if my app / access were to be revoked.

testfrequency 3y ago
Tesla Engineering has their shit together, Elon is very detached from their work. Comparing Tesla to Twitter is not reasonable
- LambdaComplex 3y ago
  > Tesla Engineering has their shit together The pictures I've seen of panel gaps on their cars say otherwise
  - meragrin_ 3y ago
    I doubt engineering is intimately involved in the day to day production.
    - testfrequency 3y ago
      Should have known all the Tesla masters would dogpile on me defending their SOFTWARE ENGINEERING team. I’m in no way talking about their manufacturing and assembly teams, strictly software. Everyone is so hostile towards Tesla, settle down. There’s a ton of ex-meta, apple, uber swe’s at Tesla, they are not some unskilled and unprofessional engineers. I really miss the old HN community, all anyone does here now is complain and disagree
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-r1s-and-r1t-present-weird-panel-gaps-and-quality-control-issues-206559.html https://www.autoevolution.com/news/rivian-r1s-and-r1t-presen... https://insideevs.com/news/405366/porsche-taycan-panel-gap-video/ https://insideevs.com/news/405366/porsche-taycan-panel-gap-v... https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/minor-gap-between-dash-and-gauge-cluster-trim.13607/ https://www.f150lightningforum.com/forum/threads/minor-gap-b... Which new EV isn’t having issues with Panel gaps?

Multiplayer 3y ago

If you are wondering about the state of auto API's here's a partial list of loads of makes and models that have some form of over the air endpoints via a 3rd party: https://connectyourcar.com/compatibility/makes/ https://connectyourcar.com/compatibility/makes/

zbowling 3y ago
that isn't a list of cars that support anything "via 3rd party" or have APIs. these are mostly cars with first party over the air apps.
- Multiplayer 3y ago
  It's a list of cars that you can connect to smartcar.com and then access endpoints via the smartcar api. Other than that you are totally correct. https://smartcar.com/ https://smartcar.com/

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

oldgun 3y ago

I'd like to hear a security expert's take on this. Something about this makes me feel real nervous.

texuf 3y ago
It’s better that what people are currently doing. You can cut and paste your auth token into 3rd party services that will give you stats and remote control over your car. As of 6 months ago there was no way to manually revoke an auth token
andrewstuart2 3y ago
I mean, oauth2 is pretty much the standard/best practice for third party access to user-controlled identity and/or resource permissions. I'd like to know more about scopes and how they do authz, but as far as access goes, this has the makings of a best practices implementation like you'd see from Google, reddit, etc. Fine grained access control via scopes, user-facing "you want this app to get access to <list> permissions?" and the ability to later revoke that access. I'm sure you can find people who'd disagree, but it's far better to build on a standard than something homegrown.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  oauth2 was the best practice way to do that back in 2014. Now, companies like Facebook have discovered the hard way that most users don't think carefully before giving away access to their data. All it takes is one app that says "I'd like access to everything you can see on facebook please", and that's how cambridge analytica happened. Ever since then, the vast majority of companies have locked down API's - because the company doesn't want to get in legal hot water for the actions of a third party app granted full access by the user.
  - andrewstuart2 3y ago
    That doesn't mean oauth2 isn't still the best practice. I'd go as far as saying OIDC is best practice for oauth2 as well. What you're saying is orthogonal and more about figuring out how to effectively manage users and the accesses they can grant, how easily they can grant certain permisisons, how often they should review access, all that. Facebook has had issues there, and I'd say Android has also had issues with similarly vague/permissive grants (local-only, completely outside OAuth2), and has learned ways to proactively manage those for users and keep sets of permissions minimized to apps you actively use/want. But none of those really has much to do with whether or not oauth2 is a great way to allow third party access to user resources. That remains a really solid control mechanism.

flkenosad 3y ago

I'm calling for Tesla to open source all the code running onboard it's vehicles. Consumers have the right to understand how their machines work. Elon, you built an empire off the backs of open source developers. Give back.

newsclues 3y ago
Same for Tim At Apple? Same for Microsoft?
- rpgwaiter 3y ago
  Yes.
porphyra 3y ago
Elon is not against open sourcing more code: https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/25/elon-musk-says-tesla-might-open-source-more-code-to-other-automakers/ https://techcrunch.com/2023/05/25/elon-musk-says-tesla-might... > Consumers have the right to understand how their machines work Windows and macOS aren't open source either and the vast majority of consumers don't care. It would be cool to be able to install an open source third party OS on your car though...
- troupo 3y ago
  What Elon says, and what Elon actually thinks are two different non-intersecting sets. As evidenced by his actions
- flkenosad 3y ago
  Windows and macOS aren't designed to operate heavy machinery and Linux is a viable alternative. Consumers don't care because they don't know. Consumers who do know, care.
elkos 3y ago
Tesla violated the GPL in the past https://techworm.net/programming/tesla-disclosed-autopilot-source-code/ https://techworm.net/programming/tesla-disclosed-autopilot-s... Are they in compliance with the GPL now?

brandensilva 3y ago

I wish they'd do the same for their solar panels. Trying to get to that solar panel data seems much harder than it should be.

s900mhz 3y ago
Same.. looking at you Generac
modeless 3y ago
Does this not include solar? I know Powerwall was part of the older API.
- brandensilva 3y ago
  I tried signing up but was rejected. It did mention energy products so it might include it if you gain access. It looks like they are just doing a free trial to hook in business focused customers so I'm doubtful it would be a good source for personal use when Elon turns on the money spigot.

wedn3sday 3y ago

I take it as a sign of the current state of hackernews that nearly no one took the time to actually RTFA. This isnt about making apps that run on the car, this is about being able to integrate your external apps with the fleet API. Like, can external app that has permission would be able to locate the vehicle. That said, I think the security implications are fairly important, since I expect one of the exposed features is to be able to unlock or start the car.

londons_explore 3y ago
> I expect one of the exposed features is to be able to unlock or start the car. I'd really like that (effectively allowing third parties to implement their own tesla app). However, I suspect that no/very few third parties will be allowed to have that API scope.
- jejeyyy77 3y ago
  Why not? API calls are scoped to a token associated with your Tesla vehicle(s). This API looks like it is meant to control entire fleets. Also, like Apple devices, I assume Tesla will have master control over the cars in the same way and can brick them if needed.
  - MBCook 3y ago
    > Also, like Apple devices, I assume Tesla will have master control over the cars in the same way and can brick them if needed. They’ve done this in the past a few times haven’t they? Like when people have done battery swaps or refurbs without Tesla’s approval?
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      I don't think they have bricked peoples cars directly... They just take away the ability to do supercharging and to use the app. Basically, your smart car becomes a dumb car. But you can still drive it - you just can't use any service that requires their servers.

phkahler 3y ago

I don't understand some things, and I'm not going to phrase them as questions but just my opinions. 1) it seems silly to build anything on Teslas platform. 2) it seems silly for customers to add more commercial stuff on top of Teslas platform. Even as someone who develops software for a living, I think most tech out there today is stupid. Some is useful but most seems not. And occasionally someone shows me use for something I thought was dumb, but I can usually go on without it. Am I a luddite?

yreg 3y ago
I don't mean to offend, but I think ironically your comment is silly. If I understand you correctly, you think that there is no value to be added by software to a Tesla. There are very obvious counter examples. E.g. fleet management for rental cars or 3rd party navigation (in the case of these APIs running on a phone, but using the API for e.g. the current state of charge). There are countless other possible products to be built on top of Teslas platform.

andylynch 3y ago

Interesting. Home Assistant happened to post about this this afternoon after Mazda’s lawyers rattled sabres about the unofficial Mazda integration; they pointed to Tesla and moreover Audi VW as being much more constructive (including an official home assistant app for VW group’s on-board app platform)

yuliyp 3y ago

The capabilities of the vehicle_commands section are frighteningly diverse (able to control details of the charging systems, make noises, remotely prevent the car from moving, plug locations into the GPS (unclear if that'll cause autopilot to start moving there). I guess this means that the remote parts have basically unrestricted access to what they can do to the car that you theoretically own. Fun times.

modeless 3y ago
If you don't like it there is a toggle in the car to turn off remote access entirely. You can leave it off permanently if you want. If that's not enough for you then feel free to also remove the SIM card from the computer.

MBCook 3y ago

I would love to be able to get the data on my car for making a phone/watch app. Ford has an API but it’s private and they have revoked accounts of people using it. Too bad. It contains a ton of great stuff, more than their app surfaces. I’d be quite happy with just read-only access. I bet devs could make some great stuff.

andrewstuart2 3y ago

Free trial. Tesla APIs are temporarily free during this trial period. Oof. I wonder if this is one more reason Tesla vehicles have gotten cheaper and cheaper. Elon's probably betting on how much companies would pay for access to APIs and thus user data, and gain income to Tesla on top of simply profit margin on the vehicle itself. Much like he's doing at X. I wouldn't be that surprised to see Tesla data become a major part of X strategy as an "everything app" if he continues that path. Definitely has me second guessing the trigger I was about to pull on that Model 3 performance that just keeps getting cheaper.

redox99 3y ago
> Elon's probably betting on how much other people would pay for access to APIs and thus user data, and gain income on top of simply profit margin on the vehicle itself. Tesla doesn't expect end users to use this API. This is meant for fleets (like rental companies).
- saurik 3y ago
  I feel like you are trying to say that you believe this comment to mean that they might try to sell access to the user data acquired from API usage, but I'm pretty sure the connection "and thus" is equating the APIs with user data, as companies paying for access to these APIs is--similar to having access to Facebook's APIs--giving them access to the user data that is accessible via those APIs.
  - redox99 3y ago
    That's a lot of hypotheticals. What I'm trying to say is that this is unrelated to regular folks' cars. For this you need to manually authorize access to your car, and then they can do things like unlock the doors[1]. It's meant for rental agencies and such. Not to scrap data of any Tesla owner (like Twitter Firehose) [1] https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#door_unlock
modeless 3y ago

todd3834 3y ago

For anyone wondering what you can actually do with this. The Fleet API link at the top is the documentation: https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api

whalesalad 3y ago

https://fleet-api.prd.na.vn.cloud.tesla.com/api/1/dx/charging/history https://fleet-api.prd.na.vn.cloud.tesla.com/api/1/dx/chargin... that is quite the api url

efitz 3y ago

Nice! I wrote an Alexa skill years ago but had to use a reverse engineered API and stored password in AWS. My GitHub is in my profile; the very ugly code is up there.

xyst 3y ago

Is the api page down for anybody else? https://www.developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api https://www.developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api

amelius 3y ago

The most important question: Can I use the car as intended without dealing with the vendor (Tesla)? If not => it's a service, not a product.

yreg 3y ago
Not the most important question since it has nothing to do with the fleet developer API. But yes, if you are fine with not using Superchargers (which would be insane) or the built-in internet then you don't need to deal with the vendor after purchasing the car.
- amelius 3y ago
  The whole point is that these services could be provided by other service-providers. This is like a car of brand X that only accepts fuel of brand X (except now it is a service like internet or an API). (No pun intended with the X)
  - yreg 3y ago
    You can use your own internet connection, the car connects to WiFi. As for the API, then yes, if you want to buy a fleet of Teslas and manage them with your custom software, you need to go through Tesla. That API is a service and not a product. The car is still a product though.

tannedNerd 3y ago

The charging api end points are also interesting here. I imagine thats it will get more fleshed out for the all the other manufactures in the US to start using the superchargers.

zedpm 3y ago

I'm glad to see they didn't forget about HTTP 418[0] in their response code docs[1]. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Status/418 [1]: https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#response-codes https://developer.tesla.com/docs/fleet-api#response-codes

braza 3y ago

Non related question: there are some examples of good public APIs docs? I would like to develop a product that serves an API but it’s very hard to get a great API as template.

RobertSponge 3y ago
Stripe public api docs are quite good IMO

pfista 3y ago

Every app I try to submit gets auto-rejected with no reason why. Has anyone else been able to get approval for their app?