5 ms·

It really kills the fun when contributing to any FOSS project that fetishizes these tools and holds them up as some kind of proof of hacker cred. I've given up.

It really kills the fun when contributing to any FOSS project that fetishizes these tools and holds them up as some kind of proof of hacker cred. I've given up. The latency is too high and the tools are terrible.

oefrha 3y ago
“Want to contribute? Subscribe to our mailing list that sends a hundred emails a day.” Nope.
- catern 3y ago
  You don't have to subscribe to send a patch to a mailing list.
  - sjamaan 3y ago
    Presumably you'd be interested in any feedback, and not everyone CCs the original author in their reply.
    - nolist_policy 3y ago
      Reply-to-all is the standard policy on most mailing lists. Especially on -devel lists since you'll pull in (CC:) people outside of the mailing list (cross-project) into discussions from time to time.
      - Avamander 3y ago
        I know more than one occasion where that has gotten an angry reply. It's also not the default in many clients. It's tedious and error-prone.
  - oefrha 3y ago
    I have more than once subscribed just to report a bug or send a patch because the mailing list rejects emails from non-subscribers. Edit: Btw, yes I have done the periodically-check-archive thing in the past, thank you. Hated it. Also missed a response once because I forgot to check and replier didn't CC. I realized like a month later.
    - Hackbraten 3y ago
      Even then, you’re free to opt into daily digests if you’re a subscriber. The message ID allows you to reply to individual messages and threads nonetheless.
    - catern 3y ago
      It is unfortunate that there are poorly-managed projects with poorly-managed mailing lists (just like there are poorly-managed projects on Github), but sourcehut at least requires a properly-managed mailing list, and I think you should evaluate this workflow on that standard. Tell poorly-managed projects to move to sourcehut, if you want to fix this issue.
- severus_snape 3y ago
  You don't need to subscribe. You are in CC when people want you to be notified, otherwise there are web interfaces you can browse. See https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/ for example. On each message there is a button: "reply via email to [...]".
  - emptysongglass 3y ago
    This interface is awful. I wish GNU would make more of an effort to be easy to contribute to.
    - severus_snape 3y ago
      I usually know, when the interface is not too shiny, that the content might be good. It's the same with HN. And those interfaces are still very easy to understand and use. That being said, there is certainly room for improvement.
      - tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our request to stop. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - rpdillon 3y ago
        There's something to this idea, I think. The less polished a tool is, the more I'm inclined to think it was built by the community for community use. There's so much talk about enshitification, and I'm struggling to recall when a tool with a less-than-polished interface had that problem. The example that springs to mind is spamgourmet, which has a FAQ about why they don't redesign their site. I've used the service for about 20 years, and while there is a bit of a gatekeeping vibe to it, there is also a good reason: they have very few resources for support, and want to attract a certain crowd to minimize the support burden. It seems it's been working for a couple of decades, at least. > Q. Couldn't you make the whole thing a lot easier to understand by redesigning your site and providing instructions in a more clear way? > A. Probably. Frankly, we're trying to build a user base of people like you, who probably have some familiarity with the way email works and who are willing to read FAQ's. This is to keep our support burden to a minimum (this is a non-commercial service). So far, the approach has worked well -- just about all our users hit the ground running with no need for support, and it's our belief that those users who would require support generally don't sign up in the first place, perhaps because of the geeky presentation of the site. That's not to say we don't provide support where it's needed -- after skimming this FAQ, please don't hesitate to write if you have a question or believe there's a bug. https://www.spamgourmet.com/index.pl?printpage=faq.html https://www.spamgourmet.com/index.pl?printpage=faq.html I tend to actively seek out projects like this, since I don't mind the blow to usability, and very much appreciate that they provide the service and don't pepper me with annoucements about their new improvements or their changes to their pricing structure.
- fodkodrasz 3y ago
  Subscribe to our mailing list, where we are rude and dismissive if you accidentally dare make a line longer than 50 characters, (didn't you read our netiquette?) as some members like to read their emails on outdated devices without text reflow capable display software. Also don't dare to use non-ASCII Unicode characters, or we will be rude and will ignore your request. Just spell your name in American, because that is what real programmers do!
  - BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
    Even better is when people post issues on Reddit or whatever asking for help because that's the most low friction way for them to ask, and then a project contributor replies with "hey can you send this to the mailing list?" and so the person sends it in and is met with exactly fucking this. It's just such a great use of everyone's time.
- rakoo 3y ago
  "Want to contribute ? Open yet another account" Nope "Want to contribute ? Give Microsoft even more power" Nope
- fomine3 3y ago
  This is a biggest blocker.
- solatic 3y ago
  Genuine question: why is this a problem? Every modern email provider allows you to set up filters that move all the mailing list emails into a seperate folder/tag, skip your Inbox, and set up auto-cleanup to delete emails older than X days so that the volume doesn't result in you exhausting your storage allocation. And if you find yourself never actually taking part in that software's discussion and it actually turns out to be completely irrelevant to you, then unsubscribe...
qudat 3y ago
That’s an interesting take actually. Would you be okay with a service that supports both email and PR based dev flows as long as the user can choose?
- djha-skin 3y ago
  I'd be interested in something like this.

oefrha 3y ago

“Want to contribute? Subscribe to our mailing list that sends a hundred emails a day.” Nope.

catern 3y ago
You don't have to subscribe to send a patch to a mailing list.
- sjamaan 3y ago
  Presumably you'd be interested in any feedback, and not everyone CCs the original author in their reply.
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    Reply-to-all is the standard policy on most mailing lists. Especially on -devel lists since you'll pull in (CC:) people outside of the mailing list (cross-project) into discussions from time to time.
    - Avamander 3y ago
      I know more than one occasion where that has gotten an angry reply. It's also not the default in many clients. It's tedious and error-prone.
- oefrha 3y ago
  I have more than once subscribed just to report a bug or send a patch because the mailing list rejects emails from non-subscribers. Edit: Btw, yes I have done the periodically-check-archive thing in the past, thank you. Hated it. Also missed a response once because I forgot to check and replier didn't CC. I realized like a month later.
  - Hackbraten 3y ago
    Even then, you’re free to opt into daily digests if you’re a subscriber. The message ID allows you to reply to individual messages and threads nonetheless.
  - catern 3y ago
    It is unfortunate that there are poorly-managed projects with poorly-managed mailing lists (just like there are poorly-managed projects on Github), but sourcehut at least requires a properly-managed mailing list, and I think you should evaluate this workflow on that standard. Tell poorly-managed projects to move to sourcehut, if you want to fix this issue.
severus_snape 3y ago
You don't need to subscribe. You are in CC when people want you to be notified, otherwise there are web interfaces you can browse. See https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/ https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/ for example. On each message there is a button: "reply via email to [...]".
- emptysongglass 3y ago
  This interface is awful. I wish GNU would make more of an effort to be easy to contribute to.
  - severus_snape 3y ago
    I usually know, when the interface is not too shiny, that the content might be good. It's the same with HN. And those interfaces are still very easy to understand and use. That being said, there is certainly room for improvement.
    - tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 3y ago
        We've banned this account for repeatedly breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our request to stop. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - rpdillon 3y ago
      There's something to this idea, I think. The less polished a tool is, the more I'm inclined to think it was built by the community for community use. There's so much talk about enshitification, and I'm struggling to recall when a tool with a less-than-polished interface had that problem. The example that springs to mind is spamgourmet, which has a FAQ about why they don't redesign their site. I've used the service for about 20 years, and while there is a bit of a gatekeeping vibe to it, there is also a good reason: they have very few resources for support, and want to attract a certain crowd to minimize the support burden. It seems it's been working for a couple of decades, at least. > Q. Couldn't you make the whole thing a lot easier to understand by redesigning your site and providing instructions in a more clear way? > A. Probably. Frankly, we're trying to build a user base of people like you, who probably have some familiarity with the way email works and who are willing to read FAQ's. This is to keep our support burden to a minimum (this is a non-commercial service). So far, the approach has worked well -- just about all our users hit the ground running with no need for support, and it's our belief that those users who would require support generally don't sign up in the first place, perhaps because of the geeky presentation of the site. That's not to say we don't provide support where it's needed -- after skimming this FAQ, please don't hesitate to write if you have a question or believe there's a bug. https://www.spamgourmet.com/index.pl?printpage=faq.html https://www.spamgourmet.com/index.pl?printpage=faq.html I tend to actively seek out projects like this, since I don't mind the blow to usability, and very much appreciate that they provide the service and don't pepper me with annoucements about their new improvements or their changes to their pricing structure.
fodkodrasz 3y ago
Subscribe to our mailing list, where we are rude and dismissive if you accidentally dare make a line longer than 50 characters, (didn't you read our netiquette?) as some members like to read their emails on outdated devices without text reflow capable display software. Also don't dare to use non-ASCII Unicode characters, or we will be rude and will ignore your request. Just spell your name in American, because that is what real programmers do!
- BaculumMeumEst 3y ago
  Even better is when people post issues on Reddit or whatever asking for help because that's the most low friction way for them to ask, and then a project contributor replies with "hey can you send this to the mailing list?" and so the person sends it in and is met with exactly fucking this. It's just such a great use of everyone's time.
rakoo 3y ago
"Want to contribute ? Open yet another account" Nope "Want to contribute ? Give Microsoft even more power" Nope
fomine3 3y ago
This is a biggest blocker.
solatic 3y ago
Genuine question: why is this a problem? Every modern email provider allows you to set up filters that move all the mailing list emails into a seperate folder/tag, skip your Inbox, and set up auto-cleanup to delete emails older than X days so that the volume doesn't result in you exhausting your storage allocation. And if you find yourself never actually taking part in that software's discussion and it actually turns out to be completely irrelevant to you, then unsubscribe...

qudat 3y ago

That’s an interesting take actually. Would you be okay with a service that supports both email and PR based dev flows as long as the user can choose?

djha-skin 3y ago
I'd be interested in something like this.