23 ms·

Isambard Kingdom Brunel

165 points by _Microft 3y ago

scrlk 3y ago
Isambard Kingdom Brunel in modern Britain probably wouldn't bother with civil engineering; planning permission for his projects would get tied up in 10-15 year legal battles against NIMBYs.
- smcl 3y ago
  Well yeah modern day engineering projects are of course planned and built differently. Back in Brunel's day it wasn't unheard of for bridges to collapse outright or to be deliberately overengineered to the extent that they'd probably not be funded today (see the Forth Bridge as an example) I dunno what NIMBYs would have been in a position to object to his bridges, though.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    "We like the view of the Forth just fine as it is, thank you very much. And, a rail line? With all the train noise? Not to be thought of. It would ruin the peaceful charm of the scene."
    - dboreham 3y ago
      I grew in one of the towns where the train ferry landed, which presumably became significantly more peaceful after the bridge was built. (Before my time, obviously)
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - arethuza 3y ago
        Burntisland? Unofficial town motto: "It's not and island and its not burnt!" :-)
    - TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
      That did happen. Some of the circuitous routes of railways are due to the objections of large landowners.
      - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
        An interesting historical example was the kromme lijn (curved line) in Delft (the Netherlands), which was in operation for all of 5 days before the landowner caved and ceded his land to the railway. The landowner, incidentally, had purchased the land as an act of retaliation against the railway, feeling slighted after having previously sold land in Zandvoort (near Haarlem) to the railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Gaag_Lane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Gaag_Lane
        TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
        That's an interesting story. And I learned the term frog war.
  - renewiltord 3y ago
    It appears the Forth Bridge cost about 3.2 million GBP, which would be 470 million GBP today (according to https://www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1870?amount=3.20 https://www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1870?amount=3.20 ) It's 2.4 km long which puts it at about $200 million GBP / km. The East Span of the Bay Bridge cost 6.5 billion USD in 2013 which would be 8.5 billion USD today or just shy of 7 billion GBP. It is 3.5 km long which puts it at $2 billion GBP / km. It appears that the over-engineering yielded a cheaper result per kilometre and that more expensive projects will quite readily be funded, up to 10x higher.
    - shawabawa3 3y ago
      It's not entirely a fair comparison as the cost of labour and life have gone up significantly since then It's estimated 78 people died constructing the forth bridge which would be unacceptable these days
    - JetSetWilly 3y ago
      You don't need to compare to the "Bay Bridge". The Queensferry Crossing was recently completed and it sits right next to the Forth Bridge, it cost an estimated 1.35bn and it 2.7km long making it about £500 million per KM. So there is a significant additional cost, however only one person was killed building it vs 73 for the forth bridge. It was also (of course) bitterly opposed by the green party, the friends of the earth, nimbies etc but thankfully these usual suspects were defeated. You can't easily compare different bridges (especially on different continents!) with the different terrain. I assume the queensferry crossing is on the "3rd best" location to build a bridge on that part of the Forth, the Forth Bridge will have been able to choose the easiest route. The queensferry crossing is regarded as quite well managed when it comes to costs: https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sections/news/queensferry-crossing-cost-management-praised-despite-delays-02-08-2018/ https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sections/news/queensferry...
    - smcl 3y ago
      I don't think you appreciate quite what an outlier that bridge is, and plugging the cost into an inflation calculator then comparing it the Bay Bridge or the new Queensferry Crossing isn't a good comparison either. It's maybe better to compare to an example from around that time, and as it happens there's actually a really good and relevant one we can use. The Forth Bridge was designed and constructed shortly after a slightly longer rail bridge over the river Tay had famously collapsed - a bridge which was constructed for 0.35 million GBP. So we're talking nearly 10x the cost for a bridge that is actually just a little bit shorter. Veering slightly offtopic now, but I don't know we can confidently say it yielded a "cheaper" result too - maintenance over the years has been pretty expensive, since the bridge needed to be constantly coated with special paint to prevent corrosion. This has found its way into Scots language as a popular simile for a neverending task: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/like_painting_the_Forth_Bridge https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/like_painting_the_Forth_Bridg...
- walthamstow 3y ago
  Even that is assuming his projects would get funded in the first place
  - scrlk 3y ago
    "After running your proposed project through the HM Treasury Green Book*, I'm afraid we can't justify funding it." * The Green Book is how the government appraises public projects. It has often been accused of having a miserly view on the benefits of infrastructure, leading to regional disparities in spending.
- dboreham 3y ago
  > planning permission for his projects Worthwhile noting that back then the country was significantly less full of people to mount objections. e.g. Paddington was built where it is because that was the edge of the city at the time. Similarly Bristol Temple Meads was built in a meadow area outside the city. The were no major roads unless built by Romans.
stn8188 3y ago
I love seeing random Wiki pages hit the front page. On this topic I can highly recommend the book "The Lost Works of Isambard Kingdom Brunel". It was a fascinating read to learn of his impact on both bridges and trains, and neat to see a few sights from my visit to London years ago.
- icegreentea2 3y ago
  It is fun seeing the random wikis. But I can't tell if it more or less fun to try to recognize which article inspired the post. In this case, I imagine it's the TBM post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889), which has a link to Brunel in the first fifth of the article. It happens a lot on HN...
  - dang 3y ago
    It does and it's not such a good thing - we try to avoid having multiple frontpage slots consumed by the same story cluster, and so we try to downweight follow-ups: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=follow-up%20downweight&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Follow-up links are great of course! but they belong in the comments, not the submission feed.
- mattl 3y ago
  Wikipedia. It’s not enough to call it a wiki
dang 3y ago
Related: The Commission for Stopping Further Improvements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35657436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35657436 - April 2023 (139 comments) Steamships, Part 2: The Further Adventures of Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34995158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34995158 - March 2023 (2 comments) Isambard Kingdom Brunel – “one of the most ingenious and prolific engineers” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823787 - Jan 2019 (1 comment) Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10577096 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10577096 - Nov 2015 (17 comments) Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7736288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7736288 - May 2014 (25 comments)
- TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
  Presumably also related, or so I thought when I saw the two items side-by-side on the homepage: The Evolution of Tunnel Boring Machines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 (though that was due to Marc Brunel, Isambard's father).
- ilaksh 3y ago
  From the first one: > If the Commission is to enquire into the conditions “to be observed,” it is to be presumed that they will give the result of their enquiries; or, in other words, that they will lay down, or at least suggest, “rules” and “conditions to be (hereafter) observed” in the construction of bridges, or, in other words, embarrass and shackle the progress of improvement tomorrow by recording and registering as law the prejudices or errors of today. > Nothing, I believe, has tended more to distinguish advantageously the profession of engineering in England and in America, nothing has conduced more to the great advance made in our profession and to our pre-eminence in the real practical application of the science, than the absence of all règles de l’art—a term which I fear is now going to be translated into English by the words “conditions to be observed.” No man, however bold or however high he may stand in his profession, can resist the benumbing effect of rules laid down by authority. Occupied as leading men are, they could not afford the time, or trouble, or responsibility of constantly fighting against them—they would be compelled to abandon all idea of improving upon them; while incompetent men might commit the grossest blunder provided they followed the rules. For, in the simplest branch of construction, rules may be followed literally without any security as to the result.
roenxi 3y ago
Isambard is special because he was prolific, had an impressive name and that one particularly photogenic moment. I like to think of him as a sort of everyman for engineers. So much of a society is designed by engineers - all the important parts really - it seems probable that there are a lot of amazing people who the history books just don't record. The list of great engineering names is short vs. the list of great engineering marvels. Similarly to how is is easy enough to find histories of people who caused massive great wars (Alexander the so-called Great springs to mind) but histories of places that had centuries of prosperity tend to not penetrate the public consciousness. It is all too complex and there are usually greasy capitalists involved instead of respectable axe-murdering generals. Anyway, thanks Isambard for representing something important in the history books.
Fluorescence 3y ago
You've got to love this tale: > While performing a conjuring trick for the amusement of his children in 1843 Brunel accidentally inhaled a half-sovereign coin, which became lodged in his windpipe. A special pair of forceps failed to remove it, as did a machine devised by Brunel to shake it loose. At the suggestion of his father, Brunel was strapped to a board and turned upside-down, and the coin was jerked free. It feels like the hacker spirit - the enthusiasm for dumb tricks and then having to invent your way out the pickle you have got yourself in.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  "At the suggestion of his father, ..." We shouldn't forget Marc Brunel was also a great engineer and no doubt a very practical man. :-)
  - guilbep 3y ago
    He was a Hacque man after all.. (born in Hacqueville)
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      Ha, I know! And son Isambard spent time in France training. Funny isn't it that the British don't spend more time emphasising the French connection. ;-)
      - timrichard 3y ago
        The average Briton might well have awareness through this documentary, where Brunel came second to Churchill in a public vote following the "Great Britons" TV series : https://youtu.be/QwHnVH9jWmU?si=lFShZQ4WMvRQwiys https://youtu.be/QwHnVH9jWmU?si=lFShZQ4WMvRQwiys The French origins of his father Marc are mentioned very early on.
- mikhailfranco 3y ago
  Half-sovereign is a small gold coin (4g). Face value £0.50, but current gold value £194.15, so ~400% inflation since Britain came off the gold standard in 1931. Definitely worth extracting.
ramesh31 3y ago
One of the very best episodes of In Our Time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nvbp1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nvbp1
flyinghamster 3y ago
Thomas Telford was another early civil engineer, among other things known for the Menai Bridge between the Welsh mainland and Anglesey. When I saw the bridge in 1999, it was kind of odd to think that this short-by-today's-standards bridge would pave the way for behemoths like the Mackinac - or that it dated to 1826 and has needed few major overhauls. I had never even heard of Telford before my UK visit, although there is a town in Pennsylvania named for him. As always, there always seems to be national gaps in education.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  Telford's Pontcysyllte aqueduct is still in use and still the world's highest. Not bad for a civil engineering project started in the late 18th Century and completed 218 years ago (1805): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehX7gKaAL74 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehX7gKaAL74 Here's another that's somewhat less famous: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirk_Aqueduct https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirk_Aqueduct Telford was before Brunel (Pontcysyllte was completed a year before Brunel was born) and no doubt the latter took inspiration from him. Both were giants of the Industrial Revolution.
  - gcanyon 3y ago
    I know, survivor bias, but still: some people built some things to really last back then.
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      I'd be too long here to give reasons in detail but noticeable characteristics of much Victorian era engineering are its excellent workmanship and longevity and that even with inferior materials than we have today that many of these works have lasted much longer than many structures that are more modern. Much of the reason had to do with the then prevailing attitude (the Industrial Revolution worldview) which was that they had a more long-term view coupled with pride—'see what we can now do' (often engeering was carried out to the best of its ability and done without shortcomings).
esafak 3y ago
Of all the characters I learned of while playing Railroad Tycoon, he had the most memorable name.
jwnin 3y ago
I first became aware of Isambard through the late works of Sting, in "Ballad of the Great Eastern", on "The Last Ship" album. Catchy song. It tells a darker story, likely taking some liberties with this legend. https://youtu.be/eaMQxDvfHEg https://youtu.be/eaMQxDvfHEg
- fakedang 3y ago
  I would actually say that it doesn't detail most of the ship's tragedy. The Great Eastern was responsible for damaging or sinking 10 other ships, that some guy humorously proposed using it to ram against the land to help create the Panama canal.
endominus 3y ago
>In 2002, Brunel was placed second in a BBC public poll to determine the "100 Greatest Britons". The person who "sponsored" Brunel on that list was Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear fame, who was given an hour on the BBC to argue his case (other persons of note were given time to argue in favor of their own choices). You can find his video here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHnVH9jWmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHnVH9jWmU
dboreham 3y ago
Even though I lived in Bristol for a few years, and traveled on the GWR thousands of times, I learned a few things from that article. e.g. that he was educated in France. So we have Napoleon to thank.
helf 3y ago
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vidarh 3y ago
Atmospheric railways were attempted a few different times, with similarly bad results. This page has a quite a bit more detail about one of the attempts: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/croydon-experimental-atmospheric-railway-2417/ https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/croydon-experimental-at...
- Animats 3y ago
  Rodless pneumatic have a long history of being headaches. Having to seal the slot with leather, wax, and tallow didn't help. Here's how a modern one works.[1] There's a famous example of a large rodless cylinder application - the launch system for the V-1 "buzz bomb" of WWII. It didn't have enough engine power to take off without help, so it was launched from a ramp, propelled by a piston in a tube much like the atmospheric railways. Power came from steam, created by the reaction of hydrogen peroxide and potassium permanganate, a very volatile combination. The V-1 itself just ran on low-octane gasoline. During WWII, some V-1 buzz bombs crashed in England without detonating, and were analyzed and duplicated in the US, as the "Loon". But the Allies didn't have access to a launch ramp (those being in enemy territory at the time) so they didn't know how the launch system worked. Amusingly, that was a good thing. A new launch system had to be invented. The result was a solid fuel booster for rocket-assisted takeoff. This allowed a much more effective launch setup, with a short takeoff rail instead of a huge fixed concrete ramp clearly visible from the air. Aircraft carrier steam catapults are rodless piston steam systems. Same principle.[2] Some of the same headaches. [1] https://www.parker.com/content/dam/Parker-com/Literature/Literature-Files/pneumatic/Instruction-sheets/Actuator/RC-Maintenance-Info-AU03-0900P-2NA.pdf https://www.parker.com/content/dam/Parker-com/Literature/Lit... [2] https://navalmarinearchive.com/research/ims/steam_cat_2.jpg https://navalmarinearchive.com/research/ims/steam_cat_2.jpg
_delirium 3y ago
I’ve crossed his Royal Albert Bridge, the rail connection between Devon and Cornwall over the River Tamar, many times. It opened in 1859 and still carries around 30 trains per day. Great view too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Bridge
- kitd 3y ago
  Nice. I crossed the Clifton Suspension Bridge every day going to school and back for a few years.
- cromulent 3y ago
  This one is a favorite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bridges,_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bridges,_London which has a road over a canal over a railway line.
xyzelement 3y ago
[flagged]
- softg 3y ago
  >> Brunel subsequently studied under the prominent master clockmaker and horologist Abraham-Louis Breguet, who praised Brunel's potential in letters to his father >This doesn't sound like something that would commonly happen today, alas. Seems like in the past, it was accepted that talent and potential was not uniformly distributed and that it was in everyone's interest to seek out and support those who have it, so that they can do great work for society. >Today you'd probably consider that kind of kid "privilege" and seek to divert investment from him to someone w/o his gifts, to seek a more equal but overall lesser, outcome. I'm sorry but this is nonsense. There are still elite schools around the world and difficult programs to get into. Some people study with prominent researchers and others don't. How's this any different? Today we have more schools and more people can get higher education. If anything, many other people who had similar talents back then would be unable to pursue a career in those days because their options would be limited. We're much better off today.
  - b800h 3y ago
    There are more people in schools, but they have to lower standards as a result. We have CS graduates who can't write fizzbuzz. Unrestrained nepotism is stupid, but its opposite is equally absurd.
    - asgerhb 3y ago
      I know sarcasm is frowned upon on HN but I am compelled to point out that in the 1830s there were also a lot of people who couldn't write fizzbuzz. If you cherry-pick random people today and compare them to historical figures, of course it will seem like things were better in the old days.
      - tragomaskhalos 3y ago
        OK I'm now imagining a 19th century job interview when the candidate is given three weeks to 'devise and construct a steam-powered apparatus capable of emulating the popular parlour game based on multiples of 3 and 5'. I'm sure modern steampunk enthusiasts can be nerd-sniped into having a go !
qingcharles 3y ago
He also was responsible for the invention of bungee jumping, which as a resident of Bristol I would be frequently reminded of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Suspension_Bridge#Operation:~:text=On%201%20April%201979%2C%20the%20first%20modern%20bungee%20jumps%20were%20made%20from%20the%20bridge%20by%20members%20of%20the%20University%20of%20Oxford%20Dangerous%20Sports%20Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Suspension_Bridge#Oper...
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Do we have a bridge in Bristol? Well, fancy that!
  - globular-toast 3y ago
    How can you live in Bristol and not know about the Clifton Suspension Bridge..?
    - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
      Your irony detector may be on the blink
digestives 3y ago
There was a great BBC docudrama in 2003 called Seven Wonders of the Industrial World. [1] First episode is about the SS Great Eastern, an iron ship that was the largest ship built at the time of her launch, designed by Brunel. [2] I’d highly recommended the series which features episodes on the construction of the Panama Canal, Transcontinental railway and Hoover Dam. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Industrial_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Industr... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Eastern https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Eastern
- echelon_musk 3y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. I've found the DVDs. Edit: This is not a documentary but a docu-drama reenactment.
kitd 3y ago
One of my favourite micro-instances of Brunel's engineering are the brick arches of Moulsford Railway Bridge on the Thames near Wallingford, Oxfordshire. The railway has to cross the river at an angle, so a plain perpendicular bridge wouldn't work. The solution is simply explained if you take a piece of paper, draw some "brickwork" lines on it it, bend it into an arch, then twist it so that the arch and the thing it is crossing are at an angle. You'll see how the lines of bricks are angled vertically instead of being straight horizontal. That is exactly how they are at Moulsford. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulsford_Railway_Bridge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulsford_Railway_Bridge
helsinkiandrew 3y ago
The time he lived in was an amazing era for engineering and engineering funding - with an lots of failed and successful projects. It's kind of like todays VC environment but rather than "AirBnb for cats" it was bridges, ships, railway lines, and tunnels His father was almost as prolific and spent time in a debtors prison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel
- immibis 3y ago
  The ring railway in Berlin used to be a rich person's playset, when the city was much smaller and fit well within the ring. Now it's effective public transport that couldn't be built today.
Obsnold 3y ago
Here’s one of my favourtie videos about Brunel. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU&pp=ygUcaXNhbWJhcmQga2luZ2RvbSBicnVuZWwgc29uZw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU&pp=ygUcaXNhbWJhcmQ...
glenngillen 3y ago
Is there a decent documentary or even book about him? I’ve long been fascinated by him and was hoping to consume something a bit less wikipedia/reference and there seemed to be only a couple of books with some mixed reviews. Which seems surprising for someone of such historical note.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  There's a Channel 5 series about him: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10648480/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10648480/ It's available on the high seas if you go looking.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
simonbarker87 3y ago
In the UK we, rightly, hold his creations up as great feats of engineering. You’ll often hear people say we need to get back to that sort of thing, which I agree with. Sadly many projects that could become those great icons in the future now get killed by (often the same) people complaining about wasting money and not wanting it built near them. I wonder how those projects were viewed when proposed and being built and what we can learn about our current approach in the UK. I often think people feel the UK is “done” and we shouldn’t strive to built new things.
- moomin 3y ago
  Can you imagine going back in time and telling Brunel that by 2023, Britain can’t build a rail line from London to Birmingham?
  - simonbarker87 3y ago
    For sure. The thing is we can do it, from a technical perspective, we absolutely have the skills, talent and knowledge to do it. It’s everything else which is failing to work correctly.
- frereubu 3y ago
  This is a great edition of the BBC radio programme In Our Time, about how the engineer Joseph Bazalgette was given the task of building proper sewerage for London after the "Great Stink" of 1858. It's remarkable how much more positive people were about large-scale engineering projects like this, and the participants in the show remark on that (although I do wonder if there were many working class people who hated the idea because it meant e.g. their house was demolished to make way for the works but they had no power to stop it). https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gjcm https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gjcm Edit: And this is a great article on the reasons why large infrastructure projects in the UK are far too expensive: https://www.samdumitriu.com/p/britains-infrastructure-is-too-expensive https://www.samdumitriu.com/p/britains-infrastructure-is-too... I bet if we could bring them in on budget people would get behind them much more.
  - 3y ago
codeulike 3y ago
Brunel was great, but if you look at the financial history of the Great Western Railway (GWR) in the 1800s you can see that even back then, mega-projects that everyone admired didnt guarantee you a fortune in profits. It cost twice as much to build as originally estimated and while GWR made a profit, it was not a huge one. As with all great civil engineering projects, the assessment of the cost was over-optimistic. The Act authorising the construction, passed in 1835, allowed for pounds 3.3m. The total cost when it opened in June 1841 turned out to be pounds 6.15m. Despite cost runovers, healthy dividends were paid in these early days. Before the depression of the late 1840s, the company was paying 8 per cent per annum which, at a time of no inflation and low interest rates, was very satisfactory. Even after the economy recovered, according to E T MacDermot, author of the History of the Great Western Railway, 'three-quarters of a century were destined to pass before the Company again paid 8 per cent'. The deterioration of the economy led to a cut in dividends to 7 per cent per annum, then to 6 per cent. By August 1849, dividends were down to 4 per cent, where they remained until they fell to 3 per cent in the mid-1850s. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/lessons-of-history-an-illusion-of-railway-grandeur-the-gwr-s-profits-rested-on-monopoly-and-shabby-service-writes-christian-wolmar-1499157.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/lessons-of-history-an-... Brunel himself made some money but quite a modest amount compared to what you might expect given his fame. At the time of his death in 1859, Brunel is estimated to have been worth about £8 million in today’s money. It’s not a bad sum but for a someone of his profile, £8 million is a very modest amount. https://historylists.org/people/list-of-10-famous-britons-and-their-fortune.html https://historylists.org/people/list-of-10-famous-britons-an... Not that I think engineers should strive to make a lot of money. But its interesting to know that one of the most famous engineers in history didn't generate a lot of cash.
- globular-toast 3y ago
  £8 million in personal wealth is loads and more than enough for anyone. It's only considered "modest" now because of how absurd money has become.
tempaway73222 3y ago
Though unsuccessful, another of Brunel's interesting use of technical innovations was the atmospheric railway ... Instead of using locomotives, the trains were moved by Clegg and Samuda's patented system of atmospheric (vacuum) traction, whereby stationary pumps sucked the air from a pipe placed in the centre of the track. The section from Exeter to Newton (now Newton Abbot) was completed on this principle, and trains ran at approximately 68 miles per hour (109 km/h).[59] Pumping stations with distinctive square chimneys were sited at two-mile intervals. Thats amazing, but I guess it kindof sucked
lycopodiopsida 3y ago
I was in Bristol some weeks ago, took the opportunity to visit the suspension bridge. Breathtaking, to say the least.
Daub 3y ago
There is a pub in Bristol called the Intrepid engineer. The engineer in question was IKB himself who, in the preliminary stages of the making of the Clifton suspension bridge, had himself hauled across the Avon Gorge on a steel table while suspended in a bucket. None of his workers were brave enough to do it. Halfway across the bucket snagged on a cable. IKB clumbed out of the bucket, freed it, climbed back in and continued on his way. In the UK, if they like you enough, they name a pub after you.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
  Are you thinking of "The Reckless Engineer" pub that used to be outside the road leading to Temple Meads? I believe that's now been renamed as "The Sidings".
  - Daub 3y ago
    Yes you are right. I had no idea they renamed it. Wankers.
    - n4r9 3y ago
      Sounds like more than a name change, it was officially closed and reopened as a "bar and cafe" serving pizza, tapas and coffee: https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/news-food-and-drink/new-bar-cafe-open-near-temple-meads/ https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/news-food-and-drin...
      - phist_mcgee 3y ago
        The slow march of progress continues
        mrweasel 3y ago
        "progress"
      - Daub 3y ago
kordite 3y ago
The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing have put some of his achievements to song - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU. "Yerr, well I'm not a lot of men". If you enjoy that, then also have a listen to the helpful guide to identifying the different Mr Stevensons - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoMLqUx5xM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoMLqUx5xM.
eunos 3y ago
Very ironic that he's on the HN front list when the UK govt has decided to cancel HS2.
meitham 3y ago
His name is so cool, that alone deserves a celebration!

165 points by _Microft 3y ago

Isambard Kingdom Brunel in modern Britain probably wouldn't bother with civil engineering; planning permission for his projects would get tied up in 10-15 year legal battles against NIMBYs.

smcl 3y ago
Well yeah modern day engineering projects are of course planned and built differently. Back in Brunel's day it wasn't unheard of for bridges to collapse outright or to be deliberately overengineered to the extent that they'd probably not be funded today (see the Forth Bridge as an example) I dunno what NIMBYs would have been in a position to object to his bridges, though.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  "We like the view of the Forth just fine as it is, thank you very much. And, a rail line? With all the train noise? Not to be thought of. It would ruin the peaceful charm of the scene."
  - dboreham 3y ago
    I grew in one of the towns where the train ferry landed, which presumably became significantly more peaceful after the bridge was built. (Before my time, obviously)
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - arethuza 3y ago
      Burntisland? Unofficial town motto: "It's not and island and its not burnt!" :-)
  - TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
    That did happen. Some of the circuitous routes of railways are due to the objections of large landowners.
    - Tijdreiziger 3y ago
      An interesting historical example was the kromme lijn (curved line) in Delft (the Netherlands), which was in operation for all of 5 days before the landowner caved and ceded his land to the railway. The landowner, incidentally, had purchased the land as an act of retaliation against the railway, feeling slighted after having previously sold land in Zandvoort (near Haarlem) to the railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Gaag_Lane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Gaag_Lane
      - TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
        That's an interesting story. And I learned the term frog war.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  It appears the Forth Bridge cost about 3.2 million GBP, which would be 470 million GBP today (according to https://www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1870?amount=3.20 https://www.officialdata.org/uk/inflation/1870?amount=3.20 ) It's 2.4 km long which puts it at about $200 million GBP / km. The East Span of the Bay Bridge cost 6.5 billion USD in 2013 which would be 8.5 billion USD today or just shy of 7 billion GBP. It is 3.5 km long which puts it at $2 billion GBP / km. It appears that the over-engineering yielded a cheaper result per kilometre and that more expensive projects will quite readily be funded, up to 10x higher.
  - shawabawa3 3y ago
    It's not entirely a fair comparison as the cost of labour and life have gone up significantly since then It's estimated 78 people died constructing the forth bridge which would be unacceptable these days
  - JetSetWilly 3y ago
    You don't need to compare to the "Bay Bridge". The Queensferry Crossing was recently completed and it sits right next to the Forth Bridge, it cost an estimated 1.35bn and it 2.7km long making it about £500 million per KM. So there is a significant additional cost, however only one person was killed building it vs 73 for the forth bridge. It was also (of course) bitterly opposed by the green party, the friends of the earth, nimbies etc but thankfully these usual suspects were defeated. You can't easily compare different bridges (especially on different continents!) with the different terrain. I assume the queensferry crossing is on the "3rd best" location to build a bridge on that part of the Forth, the Forth Bridge will have been able to choose the easiest route. The queensferry crossing is regarded as quite well managed when it comes to costs: https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sections/news/queensferry-crossing-cost-management-praised-despite-delays-02-08-2018/ https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/sections/news/queensferry...
  - smcl 3y ago
    I don't think you appreciate quite what an outlier that bridge is, and plugging the cost into an inflation calculator then comparing it the Bay Bridge or the new Queensferry Crossing isn't a good comparison either. It's maybe better to compare to an example from around that time, and as it happens there's actually a really good and relevant one we can use. The Forth Bridge was designed and constructed shortly after a slightly longer rail bridge over the river Tay had famously collapsed - a bridge which was constructed for 0.35 million GBP. So we're talking nearly 10x the cost for a bridge that is actually just a little bit shorter. Veering slightly offtopic now, but I don't know we can confidently say it yielded a "cheaper" result too - maintenance over the years has been pretty expensive, since the bridge needed to be constantly coated with special paint to prevent corrosion. This has found its way into Scots language as a popular simile for a neverending task: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/like_painting_the_Forth_Bridge https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/like_painting_the_Forth_Bridg...
walthamstow 3y ago
Even that is assuming his projects would get funded in the first place
- scrlk 3y ago
  "After running your proposed project through the HM Treasury Green Book*, I'm afraid we can't justify funding it." * The Green Book is how the government appraises public projects. It has often been accused of having a miserly view on the benefits of infrastructure, leading to regional disparities in spending.
dboreham 3y ago
> planning permission for his projects Worthwhile noting that back then the country was significantly less full of people to mount objections. e.g. Paddington was built where it is because that was the edge of the city at the time. Similarly Bristol Temple Meads was built in a meadow area outside the city. The were no major roads unless built by Romans.

stn8188 3y ago

I love seeing random Wiki pages hit the front page. On this topic I can highly recommend the book "The Lost Works of Isambard Kingdom Brunel". It was a fascinating read to learn of his impact on both bridges and trains, and neat to see a few sights from my visit to London years ago.

icegreentea2 3y ago
It is fun seeing the random wikis. But I can't tell if it more or less fun to try to recognize which article inspired the post. In this case, I imagine it's the TBM post (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889), which has a link to Brunel in the first fifth of the article. It happens a lot on HN...
- dang 3y ago
  It does and it's not such a good thing - we try to avoid having multiple frontpage slots consumed by the same story cluster, and so we try to downweight follow-ups: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=follow-up%20downweight&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que.... Follow-up links are great of course! but they belong in the comments, not the submission feed.
mattl 3y ago
Wikipedia. It’s not enough to call it a wiki

dang 3y ago

Related: The Commission for Stopping Further Improvements - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35657436 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35657436 - April 2023 (139 comments) Steamships, Part 2: The Further Adventures of Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34995158 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34995158 - March 2023 (2 comments) Isambard Kingdom Brunel – “one of the most ingenious and prolific engineers” - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18823787 - Jan 2019 (1 comment) Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10577096 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10577096 - Nov 2015 (17 comments) Isambard Kingdom Brunel - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7736288 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7736288 - May 2014 (25 comments)

TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
Presumably also related, or so I thought when I saw the two items side-by-side on the homepage: The Evolution of Tunnel Boring Machines - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37836889 (though that was due to Marc Brunel, Isambard's father).
ilaksh 3y ago
From the first one: > If the Commission is to enquire into the conditions “to be observed,” it is to be presumed that they will give the result of their enquiries; or, in other words, that they will lay down, or at least suggest, “rules” and “conditions to be (hereafter) observed” in the construction of bridges, or, in other words, embarrass and shackle the progress of improvement tomorrow by recording and registering as law the prejudices or errors of today. > Nothing, I believe, has tended more to distinguish advantageously the profession of engineering in England and in America, nothing has conduced more to the great advance made in our profession and to our pre-eminence in the real practical application of the science, than the absence of all règles de l’art—a term which I fear is now going to be translated into English by the words “conditions to be observed.” No man, however bold or however high he may stand in his profession, can resist the benumbing effect of rules laid down by authority. Occupied as leading men are, they could not afford the time, or trouble, or responsibility of constantly fighting against them—they would be compelled to abandon all idea of improving upon them; while incompetent men might commit the grossest blunder provided they followed the rules. For, in the simplest branch of construction, rules may be followed literally without any security as to the result.

roenxi 3y ago

Isambard is special because he was prolific, had an impressive name and that one particularly photogenic moment. I like to think of him as a sort of everyman for engineers. So much of a society is designed by engineers - all the important parts really - it seems probable that there are a lot of amazing people who the history books just don't record. The list of great engineering names is short vs. the list of great engineering marvels. Similarly to how is is easy enough to find histories of people who caused massive great wars (Alexander the so-called Great springs to mind) but histories of places that had centuries of prosperity tend to not penetrate the public consciousness. It is all too complex and there are usually greasy capitalists involved instead of respectable axe-murdering generals. Anyway, thanks Isambard for representing something important in the history books.

Fluorescence 3y ago

You've got to love this tale: > While performing a conjuring trick for the amusement of his children in 1843 Brunel accidentally inhaled a half-sovereign coin, which became lodged in his windpipe. A special pair of forceps failed to remove it, as did a machine devised by Brunel to shake it loose. At the suggestion of his father, Brunel was strapped to a board and turned upside-down, and the coin was jerked free. It feels like the hacker spirit - the enthusiasm for dumb tricks and then having to invent your way out the pickle you have got yourself in.

hilbert42 3y ago
"At the suggestion of his father, ..." We shouldn't forget Marc Brunel was also a great engineer and no doubt a very practical man. :-)
- guilbep 3y ago
  He was a Hacque man after all.. (born in Hacqueville)
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    Ha, I know! And son Isambard spent time in France training. Funny isn't it that the British don't spend more time emphasising the French connection. ;-)
    - timrichard 3y ago
      The average Briton might well have awareness through this documentary, where Brunel came second to Churchill in a public vote following the "Great Britons" TV series : https://youtu.be/QwHnVH9jWmU?si=lFShZQ4WMvRQwiys https://youtu.be/QwHnVH9jWmU?si=lFShZQ4WMvRQwiys The French origins of his father Marc are mentioned very early on.
mikhailfranco 3y ago
Half-sovereign is a small gold coin (4g). Face value £0.50, but current gold value £194.15, so ~400% inflation since Britain came off the gold standard in 1931. Definitely worth extracting.

ramesh31 3y ago

One of the very best episodes of In Our Time: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nvbp1 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nvbp1

flyinghamster 3y ago

Thomas Telford was another early civil engineer, among other things known for the Menai Bridge between the Welsh mainland and Anglesey. When I saw the bridge in 1999, it was kind of odd to think that this short-by-today's-standards bridge would pave the way for behemoths like the Mackinac - or that it dated to 1826 and has needed few major overhauls. I had never even heard of Telford before my UK visit, although there is a town in Pennsylvania named for him. As always, there always seems to be national gaps in education.

hilbert42 3y ago
Telford's Pontcysyllte aqueduct is still in use and still the world's highest. Not bad for a civil engineering project started in the late 18th Century and completed 218 years ago (1805): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontcysyllte_Aqueduct https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehX7gKaAL74 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ehX7gKaAL74 Here's another that's somewhat less famous: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirk_Aqueduct https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirk_Aqueduct Telford was before Brunel (Pontcysyllte was completed a year before Brunel was born) and no doubt the latter took inspiration from him. Both were giants of the Industrial Revolution.
- gcanyon 3y ago
  I know, survivor bias, but still: some people built some things to really last back then.
  - hilbert42 3y ago
    I'd be too long here to give reasons in detail but noticeable characteristics of much Victorian era engineering are its excellent workmanship and longevity and that even with inferior materials than we have today that many of these works have lasted much longer than many structures that are more modern. Much of the reason had to do with the then prevailing attitude (the Industrial Revolution worldview) which was that they had a more long-term view coupled with pride—'see what we can now do' (often engeering was carried out to the best of its ability and done without shortcomings).

esafak 3y ago

Of all the characters I learned of while playing Railroad Tycoon, he had the most memorable name.

jwnin 3y ago

I first became aware of Isambard through the late works of Sting, in "Ballad of the Great Eastern", on "The Last Ship" album. Catchy song. It tells a darker story, likely taking some liberties with this legend. https://youtu.be/eaMQxDvfHEg https://youtu.be/eaMQxDvfHEg

fakedang 3y ago
I would actually say that it doesn't detail most of the ship's tragedy. The Great Eastern was responsible for damaging or sinking 10 other ships, that some guy humorously proposed using it to ram against the land to help create the Panama canal.

endominus 3y ago

>In 2002, Brunel was placed second in a BBC public poll to determine the "100 Greatest Britons". The person who "sponsored" Brunel on that list was Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear fame, who was given an hour on the BBC to argue his case (other persons of note were given time to argue in favor of their own choices). You can find his video here; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHnVH9jWmU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwHnVH9jWmU

dboreham 3y ago

Even though I lived in Bristol for a few years, and traveled on the GWR thousands of times, I learned a few things from that article. e.g. that he was educated in France. So we have Napoleon to thank.

helf 3y ago

[dead]

vidarh 3y ago

Atmospheric railways were attempted a few different times, with similarly bad results. This page has a quite a bit more detail about one of the attempts: https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/croydon-experimental-atmospheric-railway-2417/ https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/croydon-experimental-at...

Animats 3y ago
Rodless pneumatic have a long history of being headaches. Having to seal the slot with leather, wax, and tallow didn't help. Here's how a modern one works.[1] There's a famous example of a large rodless cylinder application - the launch system for the V-1 "buzz bomb" of WWII. It didn't have enough engine power to take off without help, so it was launched from a ramp, propelled by a piston in a tube much like the atmospheric railways. Power came from steam, created by the reaction of hydrogen peroxide and potassium permanganate, a very volatile combination. The V-1 itself just ran on low-octane gasoline. During WWII, some V-1 buzz bombs crashed in England without detonating, and were analyzed and duplicated in the US, as the "Loon". But the Allies didn't have access to a launch ramp (those being in enemy territory at the time) so they didn't know how the launch system worked. Amusingly, that was a good thing. A new launch system had to be invented. The result was a solid fuel booster for rocket-assisted takeoff. This allowed a much more effective launch setup, with a short takeoff rail instead of a huge fixed concrete ramp clearly visible from the air. Aircraft carrier steam catapults are rodless piston steam systems. Same principle.[2] Some of the same headaches. [1] https://www.parker.com/content/dam/Parker-com/Literature/Literature-Files/pneumatic/Instruction-sheets/Actuator/RC-Maintenance-Info-AU03-0900P-2NA.pdf https://www.parker.com/content/dam/Parker-com/Literature/Lit... [2] https://navalmarinearchive.com/research/ims/steam_cat_2.jpg https://navalmarinearchive.com/research/ims/steam_cat_2.jpg

_delirium 3y ago

I’ve crossed his Royal Albert Bridge, the rail connection between Devon and Cornwall over the River Tamar, many times. It opened in 1859 and still carries around 30 trains per day. Great view too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Bridge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Albert_Bridge

kitd 3y ago
Nice. I crossed the Clifton Suspension Bridge every day going to school and back for a few years.
cromulent 3y ago
This one is a favorite: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bridges,_London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Bridges,_London which has a road over a canal over a railway line.

xyzelement 3y ago

[flagged]

softg 3y ago
>> Brunel subsequently studied under the prominent master clockmaker and horologist Abraham-Louis Breguet, who praised Brunel's potential in letters to his father >This doesn't sound like something that would commonly happen today, alas. Seems like in the past, it was accepted that talent and potential was not uniformly distributed and that it was in everyone's interest to seek out and support those who have it, so that they can do great work for society. >Today you'd probably consider that kind of kid "privilege" and seek to divert investment from him to someone w/o his gifts, to seek a more equal but overall lesser, outcome. I'm sorry but this is nonsense. There are still elite schools around the world and difficult programs to get into. Some people study with prominent researchers and others don't. How's this any different? Today we have more schools and more people can get higher education. If anything, many other people who had similar talents back then would be unable to pursue a career in those days because their options would be limited. We're much better off today.
- b800h 3y ago
  There are more people in schools, but they have to lower standards as a result. We have CS graduates who can't write fizzbuzz. Unrestrained nepotism is stupid, but its opposite is equally absurd.
  - asgerhb 3y ago
    I know sarcasm is frowned upon on HN but I am compelled to point out that in the 1830s there were also a lot of people who couldn't write fizzbuzz. If you cherry-pick random people today and compare them to historical figures, of course it will seem like things were better in the old days.
    - tragomaskhalos 3y ago
      OK I'm now imagining a 19th century job interview when the candidate is given three weeks to 'devise and construct a steam-powered apparatus capable of emulating the popular parlour game based on multiples of 3 and 5'. I'm sure modern steampunk enthusiasts can be nerd-sniped into having a go !

qingcharles 3y ago

He also was responsible for the invention of bungee jumping, which as a resident of Bristol I would be frequently reminded of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Suspension_Bridge#Operation:~:text=On%201%20April%201979%2C%20the%20first%20modern%20bungee%20jumps%20were%20made%20from%20the%20bridge%20by%20members%20of%20the%20University%20of%20Oxford%20Dangerous%20Sports%20Club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifton_Suspension_Bridge#Oper...

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Do we have a bridge in Bristol? Well, fancy that!
- globular-toast 3y ago
  How can you live in Bristol and not know about the Clifton Suspension Bridge..?
  - ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
    Your irony detector may be on the blink

digestives 3y ago

There was a great BBC docudrama in 2003 called Seven Wonders of the Industrial World. [1] First episode is about the SS Great Eastern, an iron ship that was the largest ship built at the time of her launch, designed by Brunel. [2] I’d highly recommended the series which features episodes on the construction of the Panama Canal, Transcontinental railway and Hoover Dam. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Industrial_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Wonders_of_the_Industr... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Eastern https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Great_Eastern

echelon_musk 3y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. I've found the DVDs. Edit: This is not a documentary but a docu-drama reenactment.

kitd 3y ago

One of my favourite micro-instances of Brunel's engineering are the brick arches of Moulsford Railway Bridge on the Thames near Wallingford, Oxfordshire. The railway has to cross the river at an angle, so a plain perpendicular bridge wouldn't work. The solution is simply explained if you take a piece of paper, draw some "brickwork" lines on it it, bend it into an arch, then twist it so that the arch and the thing it is crossing are at an angle. You'll see how the lines of bricks are angled vertically instead of being straight horizontal. That is exactly how they are at Moulsford. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulsford_Railway_Bridge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moulsford_Railway_Bridge

helsinkiandrew 3y ago

The time he lived in was an amazing era for engineering and engineering funding - with an lots of failed and successful projects. It's kind of like todays VC environment but rather than "AirBnb for cats" it was bridges, ships, railway lines, and tunnels His father was almost as prolific and spent time in a debtors prison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Isambard_Brunel

immibis 3y ago
The ring railway in Berlin used to be a rich person's playset, when the city was much smaller and fit well within the ring. Now it's effective public transport that couldn't be built today.

Obsnold 3y ago

Here’s one of my favourtie videos about Brunel. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU&pp=ygUcaXNhbWJhcmQga2luZ2RvbSBicnVuZWwgc29uZw%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU&pp=ygUcaXNhbWJhcmQ...

glenngillen 3y ago

Is there a decent documentary or even book about him? I’ve long been fascinated by him and was hoping to consume something a bit less wikipedia/reference and there seemed to be only a couple of books with some mixed reviews. Which seems surprising for someone of such historical note.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
There's a Channel 5 series about him: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10648480/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10648480/ It's available on the high seas if you go looking.
deleted 3y ago
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simonbarker87 3y ago

In the UK we, rightly, hold his creations up as great feats of engineering. You’ll often hear people say we need to get back to that sort of thing, which I agree with. Sadly many projects that could become those great icons in the future now get killed by (often the same) people complaining about wasting money and not wanting it built near them. I wonder how those projects were viewed when proposed and being built and what we can learn about our current approach in the UK. I often think people feel the UK is “done” and we shouldn’t strive to built new things.

moomin 3y ago
Can you imagine going back in time and telling Brunel that by 2023, Britain can’t build a rail line from London to Birmingham?
- simonbarker87 3y ago
  For sure. The thing is we can do it, from a technical perspective, we absolutely have the skills, talent and knowledge to do it. It’s everything else which is failing to work correctly.
frereubu 3y ago
This is a great edition of the BBC radio programme In Our Time, about how the engineer Joseph Bazalgette was given the task of building proper sewerage for London after the "Great Stink" of 1858. It's remarkable how much more positive people were about large-scale engineering projects like this, and the participants in the show remark on that (although I do wonder if there were many working class people who hated the idea because it meant e.g. their house was demolished to make way for the works but they had no power to stop it). https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gjcm https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001gjcm Edit: And this is a great article on the reasons why large infrastructure projects in the UK are far too expensive: https://www.samdumitriu.com/p/britains-infrastructure-is-too-expensive https://www.samdumitriu.com/p/britains-infrastructure-is-too... I bet if we could bring them in on budget people would get behind them much more.
- 3y ago

codeulike 3y ago

Brunel was great, but if you look at the financial history of the Great Western Railway (GWR) in the 1800s you can see that even back then, mega-projects that everyone admired didnt guarantee you a fortune in profits. It cost twice as much to build as originally estimated and while GWR made a profit, it was not a huge one. As with all great civil engineering projects, the assessment of the cost was over-optimistic. The Act authorising the construction, passed in 1835, allowed for pounds 3.3m. The total cost when it opened in June 1841 turned out to be pounds 6.15m. Despite cost runovers, healthy dividends were paid in these early days. Before the depression of the late 1840s, the company was paying 8 per cent per annum which, at a time of no inflation and low interest rates, was very satisfactory. Even after the economy recovered, according to E T MacDermot, author of the History of the Great Western Railway, 'three-quarters of a century were destined to pass before the Company again paid 8 per cent'. The deterioration of the economy led to a cut in dividends to 7 per cent per annum, then to 6 per cent. By August 1849, dividends were down to 4 per cent, where they remained until they fell to 3 per cent in the mid-1850s. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/lessons-of-history-an-illusion-of-railway-grandeur-the-gwr-s-profits-rested-on-monopoly-and-shabby-service-writes-christian-wolmar-1499157.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/lessons-of-history-an-... Brunel himself made some money but quite a modest amount compared to what you might expect given his fame. At the time of his death in 1859, Brunel is estimated to have been worth about £8 million in today’s money. It’s not a bad sum but for a someone of his profile, £8 million is a very modest amount. https://historylists.org/people/list-of-10-famous-britons-and-their-fortune.html https://historylists.org/people/list-of-10-famous-britons-an... Not that I think engineers should strive to make a lot of money. But its interesting to know that one of the most famous engineers in history didn't generate a lot of cash.

globular-toast 3y ago
£8 million in personal wealth is loads and more than enough for anyone. It's only considered "modest" now because of how absurd money has become.

tempaway73222 3y ago

Though unsuccessful, another of Brunel's interesting use of technical innovations was the atmospheric railway ... Instead of using locomotives, the trains were moved by Clegg and Samuda's patented system of atmospheric (vacuum) traction, whereby stationary pumps sucked the air from a pipe placed in the centre of the track. The section from Exeter to Newton (now Newton Abbot) was completed on this principle, and trains ran at approximately 68 miles per hour (109 km/h).[59] Pumping stations with distinctive square chimneys were sited at two-mile intervals. Thats amazing, but I guess it kindof sucked

lycopodiopsida 3y ago

I was in Bristol some weeks ago, took the opportunity to visit the suspension bridge. Breathtaking, to say the least.

Daub 3y ago

There is a pub in Bristol called the Intrepid engineer. The engineer in question was IKB himself who, in the preliminary stages of the making of the Clifton suspension bridge, had himself hauled across the Avon Gorge on a steel table while suspended in a bucket. None of his workers were brave enough to do it. Halfway across the bucket snagged on a cable. IKB clumbed out of the bucket, freed it, climbed back in and continued on his way. In the UK, if they like you enough, they name a pub after you.

ndsipa_pomu 3y ago
Are you thinking of "The Reckless Engineer" pub that used to be outside the road leading to Temple Meads? I believe that's now been renamed as "The Sidings".
- Daub 3y ago
  Yes you are right. I had no idea they renamed it. Wankers.
  - n4r9 3y ago
    Sounds like more than a name change, it was officially closed and reopened as a "bar and cafe" serving pizza, tapas and coffee: https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/news-food-and-drink/new-bar-cafe-open-near-temple-meads/ https://www.bristol247.com/food-and-drink/news-food-and-drin...
    - phist_mcgee 3y ago
      The slow march of progress continues
      - mrweasel 3y ago
        "progress"
    - Daub 3y ago

kordite 3y ago

The Men That Will Not Be Blamed For Nothing have put some of his achievements to song - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=21QqXumEWFU. "Yerr, well I'm not a lot of men". If you enjoy that, then also have a listen to the helpful guide to identifying the different Mr Stevensons - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoMLqUx5xM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKoMLqUx5xM.

eunos 3y ago

Very ironic that he's on the HN front list when the UK govt has decided to cancel HS2.

meitham 3y ago

His name is so cool, that alone deserves a celebration!