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Perhaps more importantly and that during inflation/shrinkflation the median income has _decreased_ so not only do you get less for your money you also have less

Perhaps more importantly and that during inflation/shrinkflation the median income has _decreased_ so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money! I will say though on inflation we should shoot the messenger. Inflation is a disease; it describes a symptom (increased prices). The word inflation does not describe at all why prices increased. Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? The news can be do a tiny bit of investigation before reporting on it for hours on end. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-27...

gjsman-1000 3y ago
I also can't stand, when it comes to inflation, that the media talks about a low-inflation quarter as though it is "relief for consumers." What about it is relieving? Prices haven't gone down, prices aren't going down, we're supposed to feel relieved that prices are still going up, just slower? I honestly dare the bankers on the Federal Reserve, and frankly, all of Congress, to live on a 20th percentile income. They'd be all over inflation in seconds once reality set in. Edit: I might mean 80th, I'm struggling to remember which end is lower (20th or 80th).
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  20th is lower than 80th. It goes from 0 (lowest) to 100 (highest).
- dingnuts 3y ago
  The measures the government needs to take to end inflation aren't politically popular. For instance, student loan forgiveness and the pause on interest payments are almost certainly a major driver of inflation. Would you say canceling forgiveness and resuming payments for all borrowers in order to cull inflation is a position that will win elections?
  - loeg 3y ago
    The number of voters benefiting from student loan debt pauses is relatively small and they are also mostly not swing voters. I agree we should resume student loan debt payments, for a variety of reasons.
- voisin 3y ago
  20th percentile means 20% of people earn the same or lower. 80th percentile would mean 80% earn the same or lower. So you were correct in the first place.
- nradov 3y ago
  In the fall of 1972, President Nixon announced that "the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing". Probably the first time a sitting president used the 3rd derivative to increase the chances of reelection. https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/1175385231160958976?s=19 https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/117538523116095897...
artificialLimbs 3y ago
>> Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? This should statistically account for at least ~25% of it, according to the numbers: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply
- lesuorac 3y ago
  What's the money demand? If money supply increases and money demand increases then the price of money doesn't change.
  - artificialLimbs 3y ago
    I haven't seen a good argument for why the government should be able to print money without consequences.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      They can; therefore they will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity
sokoloff 3y ago
> not only do you get less for your money you also have less money The figures you cited are real median income, meaning the effect of inflation has been backed out. The C-CPI-U was around 8% in 2022. If the Census report says that real incomes (what your paycheck can buy) decreased 2.3%, that means that nominal incomes (the numbers on your paycheck) increased by a little over 5%. The unlabeled table on page 14 shows that they used 7.8% as the deflator for 2022. Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". That may or may not be the case, but if you're going to cite both, you should be citing nominal income, not real income. (In particular in 2022, this was not the case and this error leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion.) I think a portion of people who say things like this don't know what they're talking about. Another portion knows exactly what they're talking about but realizes that other people won't and is able to spin misleading messages out of that gap in understanding. (Make no mistake, there are actual problems facing the median income American, but there is also a lot of mis-speak about them, some of which is intentional.)
- lesuorac 3y ago
  > Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". Non-Sequiter. That isn't a quote of something I wrote. The thing I actually wrote is "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!". Which is accurate. Shrinkflation means when you go out to buy detergent you only get 15.5 oz instead of 16oz so you're getting less for your money. Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!" People really aren't going to care that their income is up 5% if the rent is up 8% ... The real value is noticed.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    > Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. You still appear to not understand. You have MORE money in your paycheck (if you were a median income earner in both 2021 and 2022). That money just has less purchasing power by a greater amount than the increase in money. More money (nominal income is up), but less purchasing power (real income is down).

gjsman-1000 3y ago

I also can't stand, when it comes to inflation, that the media talks about a low-inflation quarter as though it is "relief for consumers." What about it is relieving? Prices haven't gone down, prices aren't going down, we're supposed to feel relieved that prices are still going up, just slower? I honestly dare the bankers on the Federal Reserve, and frankly, all of Congress, to live on a 20th percentile income. They'd be all over inflation in seconds once reality set in. Edit: I might mean 80th, I'm struggling to remember which end is lower (20th or 80th).

disgruntledphd2 3y ago
20th is lower than 80th. It goes from 0 (lowest) to 100 (highest).
dingnuts 3y ago
The measures the government needs to take to end inflation aren't politically popular. For instance, student loan forgiveness and the pause on interest payments are almost certainly a major driver of inflation. Would you say canceling forgiveness and resuming payments for all borrowers in order to cull inflation is a position that will win elections?
- loeg 3y ago
  The number of voters benefiting from student loan debt pauses is relatively small and they are also mostly not swing voters. I agree we should resume student loan debt payments, for a variety of reasons.
voisin 3y ago
20th percentile means 20% of people earn the same or lower. 80th percentile would mean 80% earn the same or lower. So you were correct in the first place.
nradov 3y ago
In the fall of 1972, President Nixon announced that "the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing". Probably the first time a sitting president used the 3rd derivative to increase the chances of reelection. https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/1175385231160958976?s=19 https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/117538523116095897...

artificialLimbs 3y ago

>> Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? This should statistically account for at least ~25% of it, according to the numbers: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply

lesuorac 3y ago
What's the money demand? If money supply increases and money demand increases then the price of money doesn't change.
- artificialLimbs 3y ago
  I haven't seen a good argument for why the government should be able to print money without consequences.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    They can; therefore they will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity

sokoloff 3y ago

> not only do you get less for your money you also have less money The figures you cited are real median income, meaning the effect of inflation has been backed out. The C-CPI-U was around 8% in 2022. If the Census report says that real incomes (what your paycheck can buy) decreased 2.3%, that means that nominal incomes (the numbers on your paycheck) increased by a little over 5%. The unlabeled table on page 14 shows that they used 7.8% as the deflator for 2022. Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". That may or may not be the case, but if you're going to cite both, you should be citing nominal income, not real income. (In particular in 2022, this was not the case and this error leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion.) I think a portion of people who say things like this don't know what they're talking about. Another portion knows exactly what they're talking about but realizes that other people won't and is able to spin misleading messages out of that gap in understanding. (Make no mistake, there are actual problems facing the median income American, but there is also a lot of mis-speak about them, some of which is intentional.)

lesuorac 3y ago
> Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". Non-Sequiter. That isn't a quote of something I wrote. The thing I actually wrote is "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!". Which is accurate. Shrinkflation means when you go out to buy detergent you only get 15.5 oz instead of 16oz so you're getting less for your money. Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!" People really aren't going to care that their income is up 5% if the rent is up 8% ... The real value is noticed.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. You still appear to not understand. You have MORE money in your paycheck (if you were a median income earner in both 2021 and 2022). That money just has less purchasing power by a greater amount than the increase in money. More money (nominal income is up), but less purchasing power (real income is down).