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Don't shoot the messenger. If anything, inflation and shrinkflation's effects on the average American are, in my opinion, understated; and Thomas Jefferson (if

Don't shoot the messenger. If anything, inflation and shrinkflation's effects on the average American are, in my opinion, understated; and Thomas Jefferson (if you've ever read his comments about inflation) would've been calling for hangings. Also, worth remembering, the median American income is $40,480 /yr., while median household is $74,580 /yr. Half of Americans make less than that per year. 20th percentile income, by median, says that 1/5th of American households make less than $28,000/yr (no law of averages with high earners skewing the result here). One glance at the housing market, or inflation, and I think they have every right to feel angry. Edit: Or is it 80th percentile?

loeg 3y ago
Your median figure for individual income includes children, part-time workers, and retirees.
lesuorac 3y ago
Perhaps more importantly and that during inflation/shrinkflation the median income has _decreased_ so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money! I will say though on inflation we should shoot the messenger. Inflation is a disease; it describes a symptom (increased prices). The word inflation does not describe at all why prices increased. Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? The news can be do a tiny bit of investigation before reporting on it for hours on end. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-27...
- gjsman-1000 3y ago
  I also can't stand, when it comes to inflation, that the media talks about a low-inflation quarter as though it is "relief for consumers." What about it is relieving? Prices haven't gone down, prices aren't going down, we're supposed to feel relieved that prices are still going up, just slower? I honestly dare the bankers on the Federal Reserve, and frankly, all of Congress, to live on a 20th percentile income. They'd be all over inflation in seconds once reality set in. Edit: I might mean 80th, I'm struggling to remember which end is lower (20th or 80th).
  - disgruntledphd2 3y ago
    20th is lower than 80th. It goes from 0 (lowest) to 100 (highest).
  - dingnuts 3y ago
    The measures the government needs to take to end inflation aren't politically popular. For instance, student loan forgiveness and the pause on interest payments are almost certainly a major driver of inflation. Would you say canceling forgiveness and resuming payments for all borrowers in order to cull inflation is a position that will win elections?
    - loeg 3y ago
      The number of voters benefiting from student loan debt pauses is relatively small and they are also mostly not swing voters. I agree we should resume student loan debt payments, for a variety of reasons.
  - voisin 3y ago
    20th percentile means 20% of people earn the same or lower. 80th percentile would mean 80% earn the same or lower. So you were correct in the first place.
  - nradov 3y ago
    In the fall of 1972, President Nixon announced that "the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing". Probably the first time a sitting president used the 3rd derivative to increase the chances of reelection. https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/1175385231160958976?s=19 https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/117538523116095897...
- artificialLimbs 3y ago
  >> Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? This should statistically account for at least ~25% of it, according to the numbers: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    What's the money demand? If money supply increases and money demand increases then the price of money doesn't change.
    - artificialLimbs 3y ago
      I haven't seen a good argument for why the government should be able to print money without consequences.
      - lesuorac 3y ago
        They can; therefore they will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > not only do you get less for your money you also have less money The figures you cited are real median income, meaning the effect of inflation has been backed out. The C-CPI-U was around 8% in 2022. If the Census report says that real incomes (what your paycheck can buy) decreased 2.3%, that means that nominal incomes (the numbers on your paycheck) increased by a little over 5%. The unlabeled table on page 14 shows that they used 7.8% as the deflator for 2022. Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". That may or may not be the case, but if you're going to cite both, you should be citing nominal income, not real income. (In particular in 2022, this was not the case and this error leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion.) I think a portion of people who say things like this don't know what they're talking about. Another portion knows exactly what they're talking about but realizes that other people won't and is able to spin misleading messages out of that gap in understanding. (Make no mistake, there are actual problems facing the median income American, but there is also a lot of mis-speak about them, some of which is intentional.)
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    > Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". Non-Sequiter. That isn't a quote of something I wrote. The thing I actually wrote is "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!". Which is accurate. Shrinkflation means when you go out to buy detergent you only get 15.5 oz instead of 16oz so you're getting less for your money. Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!" People really aren't going to care that their income is up 5% if the rent is up 8% ... The real value is noticed.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      > Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. You still appear to not understand. You have MORE money in your paycheck (if you were a median income earner in both 2021 and 2022). That money just has less purchasing power by a greater amount than the increase in money. More money (nominal income is up), but less purchasing power (real income is down).
coffeebeqn 3y ago
This is hardly just the news talking too much about the thing. Cumulative inflation over the last 4 years has been insane and most people haven’t gotten double digit raises (just to tread water in the best case). People feel the pinch because it’s an actual fact in their day to day life
andrewmutz 3y ago
In inflation-adjusted terms, the lowest income americans have done the best over the last few years, with their wages rising 9%: https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/ https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/ > Between 2019 and 2022, hourly wage growth was strongest at the bottom of the wage distribution. The 10th-percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. When we look across the wage distribution, we see wage growth declining for each successive wage group until we reach the high-wage group. Compared with the 9.0% wage growth at the bottom, growth was less than half as fast for lower-middle-wage workers (3.9%) and less than one-third as fast for middle-wage workers (2.4%) between 2019 and 2022. Upper-middle wages grew even more slowly at 1.8% over the three-year period, while the 90th-percentile wage grew 4.9%—faster than the middle wages, but not as fast as the 10th-percentile wage. And this is from EPI, a left-leaning think tank.
- voisin 3y ago
  For context about just how well “the best” have done: > The 10th-percentile wage in 2022 was $12.57, or $26,145 annually for a full-time worker. 9.0% real wage growth is still not remotely close to livable.
  - m4jor 3y ago
    For real. Who the heck can live off $26k a year. That's peanuts.
- unethical_ban 3y ago
  If someone makes 25k and gets a 2.5k (10%) raise over a few years, they still aren't as well off as someone who made $200k in 2018 and got laid off and now only makes 120k. I know you were responding to a comment about raises but seeing "done the best" in any context for the lowest earning workers feels odd.
- titzer 3y ago
  Painfully tonedeaf comment. If you're at poverty level, not making ends meet, and inflation is 30% and your wage growth is 9%, you are falling behind. If you are above "making ends meet" and your income growth is only 3% but you are still "making ends meet", things are fine for you. Inflation is absolutely decimating the lower half of the country. Your numbers are sophistry.
makomk 3y ago
The BBC is a British institution though, and the British media has treated the effects of inflation here very differently to how the American media did, with endless front-page coverage of every last detail and prediction and problem whereas the American media downplayed the issue and how badly people were doing in day-to-day terms and instead told readers that inflation was some partisan Republican narrative.
- darkclouds 3y ago
  [dead]
- kemotep 3y ago
  Not sure if you are American or not, but at least from my prospective experience as someone in the US there seems to be a never ending glee from the media in predicting an imminent economic downturn and there were/are constant articles and stories about how difficult the economic situation is, how bad inflation is, and so on. Maybe a Democratic Party partisan outlet would say it is just a Republican talking point but the average news media outlet I have seen has had something negative to say about the economy every week for the past few years.

loeg 3y ago

Your median figure for individual income includes children, part-time workers, and retirees.

lesuorac 3y ago

Perhaps more importantly and that during inflation/shrinkflation the median income has _decreased_ so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money! I will say though on inflation we should shoot the messenger. Inflation is a disease; it describes a symptom (increased prices). The word inflation does not describe at all why prices increased. Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? The news can be do a tiny bit of investigation before reporting on it for hours on end. https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-27...

gjsman-1000 3y ago
I also can't stand, when it comes to inflation, that the media talks about a low-inflation quarter as though it is "relief for consumers." What about it is relieving? Prices haven't gone down, prices aren't going down, we're supposed to feel relieved that prices are still going up, just slower? I honestly dare the bankers on the Federal Reserve, and frankly, all of Congress, to live on a 20th percentile income. They'd be all over inflation in seconds once reality set in. Edit: I might mean 80th, I'm struggling to remember which end is lower (20th or 80th).
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  20th is lower than 80th. It goes from 0 (lowest) to 100 (highest).
- dingnuts 3y ago
  The measures the government needs to take to end inflation aren't politically popular. For instance, student loan forgiveness and the pause on interest payments are almost certainly a major driver of inflation. Would you say canceling forgiveness and resuming payments for all borrowers in order to cull inflation is a position that will win elections?
  - loeg 3y ago
    The number of voters benefiting from student loan debt pauses is relatively small and they are also mostly not swing voters. I agree we should resume student loan debt payments, for a variety of reasons.
- voisin 3y ago
  20th percentile means 20% of people earn the same or lower. 80th percentile would mean 80% earn the same or lower. So you were correct in the first place.
- nradov 3y ago
  In the fall of 1972, President Nixon announced that "the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing". Probably the first time a sitting president used the 3rd derivative to increase the chances of reelection. https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/1175385231160958976?s=19 https://twitter.com/fermatslibrary/status/117538523116095897...
artificialLimbs 3y ago
>> Did oil get more expensive so the cost of revenue increased? Did a company realize they were charging below market rate? This should statistically account for at least ~25% of it, according to the numbers: https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_m2_money_supply
- lesuorac 3y ago
  What's the money demand? If money supply increases and money demand increases then the price of money doesn't change.
  - artificialLimbs 3y ago
    I haven't seen a good argument for why the government should be able to print money without consequences.
    - lesuorac 3y ago
      They can; therefore they will. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity
sokoloff 3y ago
> not only do you get less for your money you also have less money The figures you cited are real median income, meaning the effect of inflation has been backed out. The C-CPI-U was around 8% in 2022. If the Census report says that real incomes (what your paycheck can buy) decreased 2.3%, that means that nominal incomes (the numbers on your paycheck) increased by a little over 5%. The unlabeled table on page 14 shows that they used 7.8% as the deflator for 2022. Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". That may or may not be the case, but if you're going to cite both, you should be citing nominal income, not real income. (In particular in 2022, this was not the case and this error leads the reader to an incorrect conclusion.) I think a portion of people who say things like this don't know what they're talking about. Another portion knows exactly what they're talking about but realizes that other people won't and is able to spin misleading messages out of that gap in understanding. (Make no mistake, there are actual problems facing the median income American, but there is also a lot of mis-speak about them, some of which is intentional.)
- lesuorac 3y ago
  > Do not repeat the nonsense that "not only has your [real] income decreased, but inflation has made things more expensive". Non-Sequiter. That isn't a quote of something I wrote. The thing I actually wrote is "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!". Which is accurate. Shrinkflation means when you go out to buy detergent you only get 15.5 oz instead of 16oz so you're getting less for your money. Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. "so not only do you get less for your money you also have less money!" People really aren't going to care that their income is up 5% if the rent is up 8% ... The real value is noticed.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    > Real income decreasing by 2.3% means you have less money. You still appear to not understand. You have MORE money in your paycheck (if you were a median income earner in both 2021 and 2022). That money just has less purchasing power by a greater amount than the increase in money. More money (nominal income is up), but less purchasing power (real income is down).

coffeebeqn 3y ago

This is hardly just the news talking too much about the thing. Cumulative inflation over the last 4 years has been insane and most people haven’t gotten double digit raises (just to tread water in the best case). People feel the pinch because it’s an actual fact in their day to day life

andrewmutz 3y ago

In inflation-adjusted terms, the lowest income americans have done the best over the last few years, with their wages rising 9%: https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/ https://www.epi.org/publication/swa-wages-2022/ > Between 2019 and 2022, hourly wage growth was strongest at the bottom of the wage distribution. The 10th-percentile real hourly wage grew 9.0% over the three-year period. When we look across the wage distribution, we see wage growth declining for each successive wage group until we reach the high-wage group. Compared with the 9.0% wage growth at the bottom, growth was less than half as fast for lower-middle-wage workers (3.9%) and less than one-third as fast for middle-wage workers (2.4%) between 2019 and 2022. Upper-middle wages grew even more slowly at 1.8% over the three-year period, while the 90th-percentile wage grew 4.9%—faster than the middle wages, but not as fast as the 10th-percentile wage. And this is from EPI, a left-leaning think tank.

voisin 3y ago
For context about just how well “the best” have done: > The 10th-percentile wage in 2022 was $12.57, or $26,145 annually for a full-time worker. 9.0% real wage growth is still not remotely close to livable.
- m4jor 3y ago
  For real. Who the heck can live off $26k a year. That's peanuts.
unethical_ban 3y ago
If someone makes 25k and gets a 2.5k (10%) raise over a few years, they still aren't as well off as someone who made $200k in 2018 and got laid off and now only makes 120k. I know you were responding to a comment about raises but seeing "done the best" in any context for the lowest earning workers feels odd.
titzer 3y ago
Painfully tonedeaf comment. If you're at poverty level, not making ends meet, and inflation is 30% and your wage growth is 9%, you are falling behind. If you are above "making ends meet" and your income growth is only 3% but you are still "making ends meet", things are fine for you. Inflation is absolutely decimating the lower half of the country. Your numbers are sophistry.

makomk 3y ago

The BBC is a British institution though, and the British media has treated the effects of inflation here very differently to how the American media did, with endless front-page coverage of every last detail and prediction and problem whereas the American media downplayed the issue and how badly people were doing in day-to-day terms and instead told readers that inflation was some partisan Republican narrative.

darkclouds 3y ago
[dead]
kemotep 3y ago
Not sure if you are American or not, but at least from my prospective experience as someone in the US there seems to be a never ending glee from the media in predicting an imminent economic downturn and there were/are constant articles and stories about how difficult the economic situation is, how bad inflation is, and so on. Maybe a Democratic Party partisan outlet would say it is just a Republican talking point but the average news media outlet I have seen has had something negative to say about the economy every week for the past few years.