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Blackmagic Camera for iPhone

501 points by Lwrless 3y ago

raincole 3y ago
A bit off-topic: why does Blackmagic keep Davinci Resolve free? Is it a case of commoditizing your compliment because they sell hardware?
- dannyw 3y ago
  There's a solid opportunity for a good free video editor for hobbyists and creators, who might not want to spend any money just yet. If you get these users on your software, you're much more likely to convert a sale. The free version of Resolve is still limited for more serious / professional applications; e.g. not making use of hardware acceleration, not having certain effects, and not processing certain professional workflow codecs. With this strategy, Resolve is essentially the "go-to" for newbies into video editing. What's so great about Resolve licensing is their lifetime license. Pay $295 once, get it forever. For commercial productions, Blackmagic gets their $$$$$ from their cameras, physical control panels and hardware, etc. These, again range from good value (for entry and mid level) to expensive.
  - _nalply 3y ago
    One word: Freemium.
  - kwonkicker 3y ago
    Blender and Unreal Engine comes to mind. Similar formula.
    - ralusek 3y ago
      Blender is open source and free, Unreal is paid on the backend.
    - jcparkyn 3y ago
      I wouldn't describe blender as following this formula. The only thing they sell (last time I checked) is blender studio, which as far as I'm aware is more just another way to donate while getting some things in return.
  - greenknight 3y ago
    So I work daily in resolve. I had a project come up at home, where i was like oh ill just use resolve as it has everything we need. Within 2 minutes, I was running into features i needed to pay for. Within 20 minutes I had bought a home copy because of how integral it is to my workflow. They get people in by being able to do the basics, but anything remotely complex, you pay for.
    - diggan 3y ago
      I think a lot of users acquire the Studio license similar to myself as well, being a free user for a long time and when I finally went looking for my own shooting device, BlackMagic Pocket Cinema was a no brainer and includes a Studio license.
    - dmbche 3y ago
      What feature? Isn't it just gpu acceleration and 4k you get with studio?
      - madengr 3y ago
        [dead]
- deleted 3y ago
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- Brajeshwar 3y ago
  My friend, please stop giving them ideas. Anyways, I'm not a professional and Davinci Resolve (free) is the good enough editor for me. I think this is macOS, iOS is free but Apple sells hardware kinda free.
- deleted 3y ago
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- sneak 3y ago
  Blackmagic is primarily a hardware company, yes, but the free version of Resolve doesn’t cut it for professional work. As soon as you start doing anything serious, you need Studio. It is, however, only $299 one time and works for all versions including upgrades.
- stephen_g 3y ago
  Yes, while many serious users will need to go up to the paid version of Resolve, mainly they want to sell you cameras, capture and playback hardware, vision switchers (like the ISO ones that record the individual streams and then create a Resolve project for you to re-edit it if you want).
- fragmede 3y ago
  They make their money on very nice, very expensive professional control surfaces, cameras, and lots of other gear. Davinci Resolve is free because they realize funneling people into their ecosystem, having them learn how to use Resolve, instead of Avid/FCP/Lightworks/Premier/etc, which means that's what they're going to go with when they have the money to spend on gear. It'll just work better together. Like if you buy all Apple products instead of random company's stuff.
  - bux93 3y ago
    I'd think it also incentivizes Adobe et al. to make sure their software doesn't break the BlackMagic hardware, because there's a viable alternative (especially with the Studio version being included with the hardware).
- j_mo 3y ago
  The free version doesn't allow GPU accelerated playback or editing or rendering which is a must for any serious user / business. They get people in the door with a really powerful free editing software, and once you've invested time into learning it and made it part of your workflow, you want to pay the £300 to upgrade because it's too much hassle to learn a new editor, and Resolve is awesome, but you reallly don't want to keep waiting 3hrs to generate 1/8th res optimized media for your whole project before you can preview at more than 10fps on an i7 Extreme Edition (that's how they got me, if you couldn't tell). It's an effective free -> paid product-led conversion path to acquire customers. Being on HN and presumably working in tech/SaaS, this is a familiar and effective business strategy.
buro9 3y ago
This is great. I'm a native Firefox with extensions away from moving to iPhone after never having one, so every further bit of support by third parties is good. I really hope the EU forcing the opening up of Apple brings Firefox
- dewey 3y ago
  How is one additional camera app related to that?
  - buro9 3y ago
    Every additional third party improvement I see shows me how other companies are still investing in the iPhone. It's been a few years now since Google seems to be on a constant decline, and the latest Pixel phones only seem to go further on that path. It's the contrast between an ecosystem on a decline, and one still being invested in by others. Not that Apple are perfect, the single biggest blocker to my cohort of friends all replacing their Android with iOS within a few weeks remains the lack of a native third party browser with adblocking extensions.
    - andelink 3y ago
      I use the Orion browser with Firefox extensions on iOS and generally it works great.
- deleted 3y ago
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abhinai 3y ago
Can someone please ELI5 why this link deserves to be the top on hacker news?
- screamingninja 3y ago
  Our discussion is certainly contributing to keeping it there longer than necessary
- langarus 3y ago
  hackernews is about what's important to the one posting
- dgellow 3y ago
  People vote for it. There is no such thing as “deserve to be at the top”. If the HN crowd show interests and upvote, then it rises.
  - dataengineer56 3y ago
    That's only true if you believe that every vote on HN is honest.
    - baq 3y ago
      HN moderation is super heavy handed and we like it this way. Alternatives are predictably enshittified.
      - dataengineer56 3y ago
        Moderation has no ability to affect a coordinated voting campaign.
        dgellow 3y ago
        HN does apply negative weight to submissions that seem to be astroturfed. Part of it is automated, part of it is manual reports or admin actions. Similar to what is done for sensitive topics.
herunan 3y ago
I was surprised to see this was free. On top of that, with an impressive feature set for an initial release. Considering Blackmagic’s reputation, this will easily beat any other half-baked camera apps or paid apps in no time. This is awesome for film school students. Already recommended it to a few of my friends who are into film.
- sneak 3y ago
  Free or not free, I am surprised to see that this includes absolutely no phone-home of any kind. “Data not collected.” Kudos to Blackmagic. (Resolve can also work 100% offline, with the license dongle, and is buy-once, not subscriptionware like Premiere. I am a very happy Blackmagic customer.)
  - pdpi 3y ago
    The thing that most impresses me about Blackmagick is how they seem to scale with you from tiny projects to pretty big stuff. From the ATEM Mini all the way to big consoles, from the pocket cameras up to the Ursa etc. This just looks like it’ll drop the low end of that range even lower.
  - strogonoff 3y ago
    Blackmagic’s reputation took a major hit after their infamous CinemaDNG bait-and-switch. They made true interoperable raw video format a selling point of their BMPCC lineup, only to irreversibly cripple units later by removing CinemaDNG support after the fact. This dramatically narrowed toolchain options (mostly to Blackmagic’s own software suite), effectively making cameras useless for enthusiast FOSS videographers. Furthermore, the hush-hush way they pulled it off using a firmware update says something about their ethical standards, so as a rule I’m not using their products anymore. The fact that they offer a cheap software product of their own (even with a free version) in no way justifies removing features (especially support for an open format with a thriving FOSS ecosystem) in a camera that they already sold.
    - dannyw 3y ago
Brajeshwar 3y ago
Can someone please ask Blackmagic to have the app rotate and shoot landscape by default even if I have set my phone to never auto-rotate its orientation? I never needed to use my phone in Landscape except for shooting photos and videos. I can orient my phone landscape to shoot photos and videos but not with this App!
- acarabott 3y ago
  This doesn't totally solve the issue, but if you unlock your phone's orientation, rotate to landscape, then go to settings, you'll find a "lock current orientation" setting.
- petesivak 3y ago
  You can go into Shortcuts and set up an Automation to automatically lock/unlock orientation when you open/close any app (including this one).
  - andy_ppp 3y ago
    Oh that's really nice, there are certain apps where this is very useful and I would prefer it but definitely it's off for me globally.
- leokennis 3y ago
  If your video demands are not complex, this app should work for you: https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/horizon-camera/id778576249 https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/horizon-camera/id778576249
1-6 3y ago
Glad to have a separate camera app for ‘pro’ settings so I can continue to use my regular Camera app for optimal settings when not retouched.
MrThoughtful 3y ago
If I understand it correctly, this is postprocessing software? Why is it called "camera" and tied to the iPhone? Shouldn't this be a website where you upload a photo, adjust it, and then download it again?
- sunbum 3y ago
  Because it is not postprocessing software, it's a camera app
- jawngee 3y ago
  No, it's a full on camera app.
- loxdalen 3y ago
  Also seems to allow setting manual settings during filming. Not sure if that is possible in the native camera app on iPhone.
- Closi 3y ago
  In that case, you don’t understand it. This isn’t preprocessing software. It’s mostly aimed at getting the right shot in the first place, and giving skilled users enough control to make better shots. So that’s why it’s called camera.
- altacc 3y ago
  There seem to be 2 types of camera apps for the iPhone: those aimed at adding filters and post-processing; and those removing all processing & automatic controls that the stock camera app wants to add (by default the iPhone software will want to apply lots of corrections, "improvements" and change settings on the fly that can make a video or photo look terrible). This is the latter, handing back control of the camera settings to the user, which is what you want for consistency of the look of a video whilst subjects move, the camera pans, etc...
brylie 3y ago
Please remember to put the download link at the top of the article or promotional material for quick access. I had to scroll down to the bottom of this 200 screen article and wasn’t sure I’d even find a download button when I got to the bottom.
- fragmede 3y ago
  I didn't even find it and resorted to searching the in App store for it.
madaxe_again 3y ago
I don’t get it. Surely if you want to shoot professional footage, you use a professional camera, with an actual lens, with a full frame sensor - not something which has been scaled down to the extent that it relies on digital hallucinations to make an acceptable looking image.
- adlpz 3y ago
  I don't get it. Surely if you want to watch movies, you go to the cinema, with an actual projector, with a full frame film - not something which has been compressed down to the extent that it relies on digital trickery to make an acceptable looking image. ^ that
- franga2000 3y ago
  Depends on who you are and what you want to achieve. If you're a beginner and/or don't have access to professional gear, it's great to have a way of shooting "the professional way" on whatever you happen to have around. You get most of the manual control a proper camera gives you with an interface very similar to that of a Blackmagic camera, so when you finally find yourself in front of a real one, you already have some experience with it. And while the image quality definitely doesn't compare to that of cinema cameras, 90 % of the time, it doesn't have to.
- qup 3y ago
  Use what you have.
- the-dude 3y ago
  The best camera is the one you have with you
- foldr 3y ago
  > with an actual lens This kind of hyperbole isn’t exactly helping your argument. Smartphone cameras have very sophisticated lenses.
- deleted 3y ago
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- 3y ago
unfamiliar 3y ago
I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. It looks like the bitrate is simply too low, either to keep file size down or because the phone can’t encode 4K that fast. However shooting in ProRES is simply not practical for me. Can apps like this improve the HEVC video quality, or do they simply reuse the Apple defaults with a new UI? Or is there a ProRES workflow I could be using on the phone?
- diggan 3y ago
  May I ask why ProRes isn't practical for you? Would help others to suggest a workflow that would work better than what you tried before.
  - unfamiliar 3y ago
    My main use case is family/holiday videos. Saving massive pro-res files would fill up the space quickly and I’m not sure how to process them into HEVC quickly and simply.
    - jpc0 3y ago
      Higher bitrate HEVC won't be any smaller than the same bitrate ProRes. Why would you think that it would be?
      - turnsout 3y ago
        You must not have tried ProRes on the iPhone. ProRes HQ consumes around 1.7GB per minute, which is an order of magnitude more than the HEVC bitrates. Apple: "ProRes files are up to 30 times larger than HEVC files." [1] [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832
      - dylan604 3y ago
        I don't even have a clue how to force HEVC to use the same bitrate a ProRes file would use. HEVC is very efficient, and does not always use the full amount of bitrate being allowed. That's its the entire point for being. Trying to get "high bitrate" HEVC is one of those "you're holding it wrong" moments.
fodkodrasz 3y ago
Why do project managers always insist adding chat to the app? I wonder if anybody uses the chat feature at all. Personally I find the integrated chat in every util useless waste of resources. Also a further fragmentation of communication platforms for any collaboration simply makes me not want to collaborate unless I'm paid handsomely to use the yetannotherchatplatform. (just finishing some project and getting rid of several chat platforms i was forced to use because of them)
- have_faith 3y ago
  This one might make sense for production crew. Easy reference of specific clips/shots, maybe lossless video clip transfers, things like that
  - dannyw 3y ago
    It's common to have external crew, who might not be on your team's Teams/Slack.
    - fodkodrasz 3y ago
      or who might not have access to the video cuts at all. Maybe a costume artist or a person organizing the catering does not need (or should not have at all, from an IP protection standpoint) access to the video clips, cuts. And you are back to the multiple chat apps (at least the producers/managers/organizers however they are called in that industry), or the limited access service accounts to the team's Teams/Slack with dedicated channels. Though I guess the productions recorded with an iPhone might not have so big and logistically complicated crew. But back to my original point: I think these small projects are organized on other, more personal channels already, so the in-app chat is redundant. For larger projects, like those I was pondering in the previous paragraph: they are already beyond this in-app chat, so the in-app chat is redundant. I think these in-app chats are very rarely used, and are generally not worth the effort to develop, or from a user/organization standpoint to learn and adopt. (Not to mention the closed nature of them). And this does not want to belittle this app and its chat feature, I'm just generally wondering about the phenomenon this app has particularly made me think about.
dcow 3y ago
As a non-film person, can someone explain what it means to create the same cinematic ‘look’ as Hollywood feature films? What is Blackmagic doing when recording video to make the video feel more professional?
- javchz 3y ago
  Marketing aside, cinematic in this context means more or less "manual control". Something that makes a video look amateurish, it's the phone trying its best to prioritise a 'clear image', but that means changing parameters mid-recording. Now, this isn't bad, it's ideal for someone who doesn't want to lose the moment without worrying about choosing the right setting (imagine a parent recording their child's recital or soccer game). But the trade-off is that it looks choppy. But if you're in a controlled environment, you can set a fixed exposure (balance between ISO, shutter speed and aperture), framerate, bit-depth, focus distance, colour temperature and microphone gain depending on your intent. As an example, image you want to have a high-contrast image with a dark silluette of someone and a bright background like a sunset, the default phone camera app will try to guess whether you want to focus on the subject or the background, and will switching between the two randomly. With manual control, you can chose, whatch you want.
  - zimpenfish 3y ago
    > Something that makes a video look amateurish [...] changing parameters mid-recording A prime example of this is leaving autofocus on when you're moving about. There's many YouTubers who haven't yet learnt this lesson and it can make the video unwatchable.
    - abm53 3y ago
      I’ve seen enough videos with otherwise high production values to make me suspect there is a valid trade-off to keeping autofocus on.
      - astrange 3y ago
        It depends if you have a cameraman or not. If you don't, and you're walking away from the camera, it's probably best to leave it on and hope it tracks you.
paweladamczuk 3y ago
I recorded two takes with exact same settings except one was ISO ~1500 and the other ISO ~3000. Shouldn't the second take be around twice as bright as the first one? The change in brightness is hardly noticeable. I suppose this is the same case as every other camera app I've ever tested on Android and iOS, such granular settings like ISO are just not accessible by the system APIs available to the app. In that case though, I'd expect the app to at least not lie to me. Can someone confirm or deny this? I don't know much about photography nor iOS so I might just be confused.
- fragmede 3y ago
  You can see the brightness change when you fiddle with the ISO, so I'm not sure where you'd draw the conclusion that the system APIs don't give apps access to that. Moving from ISO 1500 to ISO 3000 doubles the sensor's sensitivity to light, but doesn’t inherently make the scene appear twice as bright.
- jemmyw 3y ago
  ISO is supposed to be the sensitivity of the film to light, and the numbers were set by a standards organisation so I'm not sure you can double the number to double the effect. Also, how does this even work on a digital camera? Surely we can't actually adjust how sensitive the sensor is to light, so is it just a simulation?
  - frostburg 3y ago
    It's complex. Many modern cameras have dual or triple gain amplifiers, with various range setups. Some ISO settings might be just a digital multiplier on the highest setting of the lower gain stage before switching to the higher gain (which may result in having better snr at higher iso for some settings). Remember that "digital" sensors are mostly analog devices (dealing in continuous voltages).
  - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
    We can configure the gain of the analog amplifiers
  - 3y ago
secretsatan 3y ago
Is this just... does it just add a filter to give it film grain?
- tedunangst 3y ago
  No.
- usrusr 3y ago
  Blackmagic isn't exactly a company that identifies with film grain...
- coldtea 3y ago
  No, that would be some app like "Super 8" and others. This one adds pro-like controls (with similar layout and features to expensive professional Blackmagic cameras), and control of the more professional features like log recording, various prores options, 10bit color, LUT preview, and so on.
danwee 3y ago
Is it only me the one who finds the usability of cameras on smartphones unbearable? I'm not talking about the software but the hardware: smartphones are thin and not as easy to grab/handle as real cameras. Anything that takes more than a few pictures is uncomfortable.
- deleted 3y ago
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- 20after4 3y ago
  There are specialized gimbals made specifically for phones which solve this really nicely. One example that I've used and found it to be really impressive is the DJI Osmo.
- dannyw 3y ago
  Serious comment: a pop socket can help a lot.
omneity 3y ago
I'm super excited at timecode support (for automatic timeline alignment) and hopefully gyro data for stabilization in Davinci Resolve!
zx10rse 3y ago
Insta download. Kudos to the developers who made it to not collect any data from the app, you deserve a raise.
loondri 3y ago
Blackmagic Camera app might add fancy controls to the iPhone, but it can't match the quality of real professional cameras.
- linsomniac 3y ago
  Of course not, but it sure beats the hell out of getting a cheap or even probably moderately priced action cams.
scrollop 3y ago
Doesn't seem to be able to reduce the iphones severe oversharpening. Would pay good money for an app that accomplish that.
al_be_back 3y ago
that's a lot of functionality, for free. how are they making money from this? i didn't see a pro/paid version - unless they're planning to offer a post-processing cloud subscription later on...
- ajdude 3y ago
  Blackmagic also sells a lot of hardware. They may not be making money directly with this app, but they are going to earn loyalty. Another comment earlier mentioned how Davinci resolve may start gaining market share for the very reason that it's free and kids learning to edit are more likely to go with them instead of cracking adobe these days (and then using the former when they enter the workforce).
  - al_be_back 3y ago
    >> it's free and kids learning to edit are more likely to go with them instead of ... I like that :)
- l-lousy 3y ago
  DaVinci Resolve (a very popular Color correcting and video editing software) is needed to work effectively with some of the ProRes Color schemes. Its basic version is free but there are paid upgrades to it. This app is likely a funnel to their software and other peripherals
londons_explore 3y ago
The iOS camera API is pretty limited in terms of giving you raw access to everything the built in camera has access to. Things like the parameters for the optical image stabilization algorithm aren't settable. I'm therefore surprised a 3rd party can make a camera app that 'beats' the built in one.
- dannyw 3y ago
  First, the APIs don't expose raw controls for everything, but it exposes a heck a lot more than the stock camera app. Second, for high-value developers like Blackmagic, Adobe, etc, there are very regular communication between engineers and product managers in both respective companies. I wouldn't expect private APIs (although they have certainly happened in 3P apps over the years; just check undocumented entitlements of IPAs from major developers), but these apps can be years / iOS releases in a making with a lot of Apple support.
supernova87a 3y ago
Maybe I missed it, but is there maybe a side-by-side comparison of the footage that usually comes out of an iPhone camera versus how it can look (with light, simple controls) out of this Blackmagic app? And question for others, while I'm at it. What was it about Blackmagic cameras or software (or company) that "broke the curve of what you could get for the same $" versus like RED or whoever expensive studio cameras? Did they do something clever with the hardware and controls to get much more out of consumer grade sensors? Or did they make tradeoffs that you eventually hit against when you try to use their cameras for real professional high-duty purposes?
- avtar 3y ago
  > What was it about Blackmagic cameras or software (or company) that "broke the curve of what you could get for the same $" versus like RED or whoever expensive studio cameras? They pack a lot of features for cheap that usually are found in more expensive cameras. Check feature comparisons for the Pocket 4K or 6K with pricier cameras like the A7S III or later. Their camera UI is by far one of the best designed ones compared to Sony or Panasonic. You get to use their efficient BRAW codec. And they include a copy of the Studio version of DaVinci Resolve.
- gizajob 3y ago
  They’re an order or magnitude two cheaper thanks to innovative and cost-effective engineering solutions from Melbourne, and offer professional connectivity alongside the ability to work with uncompressed or lightly-compressed codecs. Repurposing Off-the-shelf parts too, such as image sensors designed for other uses (such as smartbombs and guided missiles) rather than developing everything in-house. Their FPGA and high-speed dsp engineering is first-class too, and they seem to get this done with fewer,smarter people than say Sony, who have buildings full of engineers spending much of their lives writing design documents and then specifying things correctly at length before building - Blackmagic just hack it together and make it work.
  - robomartin 3y ago
    > Blackmagic just hack it together and make it work. This isn't even remotely true. Nobody at that scale just hacks it together. That sort of approach works for articles on various hardware hacking websites, not for real-life design and manufacturing of products.
alephnan 3y ago
> Cell phones often have 3 rear lenses ranging from 13mm, 24mm and 77mm telephoto, plus a front lens. I’m wondering if this was done by the copywriter or the UI person who needed to add more text so that every section has the same amount of “content”. Node.js/NPM devs do this too
_ea1k 3y ago
It'd be nice to have a straightforward way to feed it over the network into OBS for live broadcast.
fcpk 3y ago
why make this iPhone specific though... locked in proprietary hardware is not nice.
TomMasz 3y ago
Blackmagic's software is extremely powerful and totally overkill for casual users. But the target audience is advanced/pro users, so that's not an issue.
hnburnsy 3y ago
I am surprised that Apple allows such control of the camera (or anything). Is this all exposed via APIs or do developers of camera apps have direct access to the hardware?
m3kw9 3y ago
Looks like another photoshop/phtotos adjusting app for videos
jcutrell 3y ago
Hey Blackmagic - you may be benefited by reviewing your copy once more on this page. You have a LOT of exclamation marks in these descriptions, and while I get that it’s an exciting product, the copy starts to get a little tiring.
sp332 3y ago
I was wondering about device compatibility. Looks like it will run on anything back to an iPhone XS/XR, although some of the features need newer hardware.
prithsr 3y ago
Maybe a silly question - but on the app itself, is there some sort of... tutorial of sorts? Really curious to learn how this world works but unsure where exactly to start on this app.
- herunan 3y ago
  https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-for-beginners https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-f...
jacktribe 3y ago
This is a forward thinking strategy for a camera maker. Instead of trying to fight the iPhone, they realized that this is a segment of the market they wouldn't capture regardless of the form factor they would adopt for Blackmagic cameras. We have 4 Blackmagic cameras at xTribe studios and they are great, but when Gen-Z podcasters come in, they'll often just put an iPhone and a Rode shotgun mic on a SmallRig cage.
pedalpete 3y ago
I haven't heard of Blackmagic, but apparently many people understand the value here. What I found strange is the images on their website have an AI generated look to them, rather than looking like they were shot with a real camera. Am I the only person who's seeing it that way?
- exodust 3y ago
  Yeh I think there's some heavy-handed compositing going on. I doubt it's AI-generated, but each image has definitely been through cut and paste hell. Take this image for example: https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/images/products/blackmagiccamera/landing/resolve/resolve-xl@2x.jpg https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/images/products/blackmag... Notice the side table leg next to the coffee cup? It's wrong because it shouldn't go over the foreground table. Looks like a composite mistake to me. The woman is also looking over the monitors not at them. Perhaps there is some elements of AI-generation used in the image.
  - pedalpete 3y ago
    I agree it likely isn't AI generated, as they have logos and words, but it's definitely over filtered. I was referring more to the snowboarding photos. You're right, there is something strange about the leg in that table. There is a reflection, which I think is causing part of the problem, but also looks like a cut-line which shouldn't exist.
ShadowBanThis01 3y ago
I generally like BMD and own one of their cameras, but they need to pull up their big-boy pants and support ProRes Raw in Resolve. They support other raw formats, so continued ass-dragging on this is just... petty.
tortoise_in 3y ago
Does apple allow 3rd party apps to use entire camara libraries?

501 points by Lwrless 3y ago

A bit off-topic: why does Blackmagic keep Davinci Resolve free? Is it a case of commoditizing your compliment because they sell hardware?

dannyw 3y ago
There's a solid opportunity for a good free video editor for hobbyists and creators, who might not want to spend any money just yet. If you get these users on your software, you're much more likely to convert a sale. The free version of Resolve is still limited for more serious / professional applications; e.g. not making use of hardware acceleration, not having certain effects, and not processing certain professional workflow codecs. With this strategy, Resolve is essentially the "go-to" for newbies into video editing. What's so great about Resolve licensing is their lifetime license. Pay $295 once, get it forever. For commercial productions, Blackmagic gets their $$$$$ from their cameras, physical control panels and hardware, etc. These, again range from good value (for entry and mid level) to expensive.
- _nalply 3y ago
  One word: Freemium.
- kwonkicker 3y ago
  Blender and Unreal Engine comes to mind. Similar formula.
  - ralusek 3y ago
    Blender is open source and free, Unreal is paid on the backend.
  - jcparkyn 3y ago
    I wouldn't describe blender as following this formula. The only thing they sell (last time I checked) is blender studio, which as far as I'm aware is more just another way to donate while getting some things in return.
- greenknight 3y ago
  So I work daily in resolve. I had a project come up at home, where i was like oh ill just use resolve as it has everything we need. Within 2 minutes, I was running into features i needed to pay for. Within 20 minutes I had bought a home copy because of how integral it is to my workflow. They get people in by being able to do the basics, but anything remotely complex, you pay for.
  - diggan 3y ago
    I think a lot of users acquire the Studio license similar to myself as well, being a free user for a long time and when I finally went looking for my own shooting device, BlackMagic Pocket Cinema was a no brainer and includes a Studio license.
  - dmbche 3y ago
    What feature? Isn't it just gpu acceleration and 4k you get with studio?
    - madengr 3y ago
      [dead]
deleted 3y ago
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Brajeshwar 3y ago
My friend, please stop giving them ideas. Anyways, I'm not a professional and Davinci Resolve (free) is the good enough editor for me. I think this is macOS, iOS is free but Apple sells hardware kinda free.
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sneak 3y ago
Blackmagic is primarily a hardware company, yes, but the free version of Resolve doesn’t cut it for professional work. As soon as you start doing anything serious, you need Studio. It is, however, only $299 one time and works for all versions including upgrades.
stephen_g 3y ago
Yes, while many serious users will need to go up to the paid version of Resolve, mainly they want to sell you cameras, capture and playback hardware, vision switchers (like the ISO ones that record the individual streams and then create a Resolve project for you to re-edit it if you want).
fragmede 3y ago
They make their money on very nice, very expensive professional control surfaces, cameras, and lots of other gear. Davinci Resolve is free because they realize funneling people into their ecosystem, having them learn how to use Resolve, instead of Avid/FCP/Lightworks/Premier/etc, which means that's what they're going to go with when they have the money to spend on gear. It'll just work better together. Like if you buy all Apple products instead of random company's stuff.
- bux93 3y ago
  I'd think it also incentivizes Adobe et al. to make sure their software doesn't break the BlackMagic hardware, because there's a viable alternative (especially with the Studio version being included with the hardware).
j_mo 3y ago
The free version doesn't allow GPU accelerated playback or editing or rendering which is a must for any serious user / business. They get people in the door with a really powerful free editing software, and once you've invested time into learning it and made it part of your workflow, you want to pay the £300 to upgrade because it's too much hassle to learn a new editor, and Resolve is awesome, but you reallly don't want to keep waiting 3hrs to generate 1/8th res optimized media for your whole project before you can preview at more than 10fps on an i7 Extreme Edition (that's how they got me, if you couldn't tell). It's an effective free -> paid product-led conversion path to acquire customers. Being on HN and presumably working in tech/SaaS, this is a familiar and effective business strategy.

buro9 3y ago

This is great. I'm a native Firefox with extensions away from moving to iPhone after never having one, so every further bit of support by third parties is good. I really hope the EU forcing the opening up of Apple brings Firefox

dewey 3y ago
How is one additional camera app related to that?
- buro9 3y ago
  Every additional third party improvement I see shows me how other companies are still investing in the iPhone. It's been a few years now since Google seems to be on a constant decline, and the latest Pixel phones only seem to go further on that path. It's the contrast between an ecosystem on a decline, and one still being invested in by others. Not that Apple are perfect, the single biggest blocker to my cohort of friends all replacing their Android with iOS within a few weeks remains the lack of a native third party browser with adblocking extensions.
  - andelink 3y ago
    I use the Orion browser with Firefox extensions on iOS and generally it works great.
deleted 3y ago
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abhinai 3y ago

Can someone please ELI5 why this link deserves to be the top on hacker news?

screamingninja 3y ago
Our discussion is certainly contributing to keeping it there longer than necessary
langarus 3y ago
hackernews is about what's important to the one posting
dgellow 3y ago
People vote for it. There is no such thing as “deserve to be at the top”. If the HN crowd show interests and upvote, then it rises.
- dataengineer56 3y ago
  That's only true if you believe that every vote on HN is honest.
  - baq 3y ago
    HN moderation is super heavy handed and we like it this way. Alternatives are predictably enshittified.
    - dataengineer56 3y ago
      Moderation has no ability to affect a coordinated voting campaign.
      - dgellow 3y ago
        HN does apply negative weight to submissions that seem to be astroturfed. Part of it is automated, part of it is manual reports or admin actions. Similar to what is done for sensitive topics.

herunan 3y ago

I was surprised to see this was free. On top of that, with an impressive feature set for an initial release. Considering Blackmagic’s reputation, this will easily beat any other half-baked camera apps or paid apps in no time. This is awesome for film school students. Already recommended it to a few of my friends who are into film.

sneak 3y ago
Free or not free, I am surprised to see that this includes absolutely no phone-home of any kind. “Data not collected.” Kudos to Blackmagic. (Resolve can also work 100% offline, with the license dongle, and is buy-once, not subscriptionware like Premiere. I am a very happy Blackmagic customer.)
- pdpi 3y ago
  The thing that most impresses me about Blackmagick is how they seem to scale with you from tiny projects to pretty big stuff. From the ATEM Mini all the way to big consoles, from the pocket cameras up to the Ursa etc. This just looks like it’ll drop the low end of that range even lower.
- strogonoff 3y ago
  Blackmagic’s reputation took a major hit after their infamous CinemaDNG bait-and-switch. They made true interoperable raw video format a selling point of their BMPCC lineup, only to irreversibly cripple units later by removing CinemaDNG support after the fact. This dramatically narrowed toolchain options (mostly to Blackmagic’s own software suite), effectively making cameras useless for enthusiast FOSS videographers. Furthermore, the hush-hush way they pulled it off using a firmware update says something about their ethical standards, so as a rule I’m not using their products anymore. The fact that they offer a cheap software product of their own (even with a free version) in no way justifies removing features (especially support for an open format with a thriving FOSS ecosystem) in a camera that they already sold.
  - dannyw 3y ago

Brajeshwar 3y ago

Can someone please ask Blackmagic to have the app rotate and shoot landscape by default even if I have set my phone to never auto-rotate its orientation? I never needed to use my phone in Landscape except for shooting photos and videos. I can orient my phone landscape to shoot photos and videos but not with this App!

acarabott 3y ago
This doesn't totally solve the issue, but if you unlock your phone's orientation, rotate to landscape, then go to settings, you'll find a "lock current orientation" setting.
petesivak 3y ago
You can go into Shortcuts and set up an Automation to automatically lock/unlock orientation when you open/close any app (including this one).
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  Oh that's really nice, there are certain apps where this is very useful and I would prefer it but definitely it's off for me globally.
leokennis 3y ago
If your video demands are not complex, this app should work for you: https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/horizon-camera/id778576249 https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/horizon-camera/id778576249

1-6 3y ago

Glad to have a separate camera app for ‘pro’ settings so I can continue to use my regular Camera app for optimal settings when not retouched.

MrThoughtful 3y ago

If I understand it correctly, this is postprocessing software? Why is it called "camera" and tied to the iPhone? Shouldn't this be a website where you upload a photo, adjust it, and then download it again?

sunbum 3y ago
Because it is not postprocessing software, it's a camera app
jawngee 3y ago
No, it's a full on camera app.
loxdalen 3y ago
Also seems to allow setting manual settings during filming. Not sure if that is possible in the native camera app on iPhone.
Closi 3y ago
In that case, you don’t understand it. This isn’t preprocessing software. It’s mostly aimed at getting the right shot in the first place, and giving skilled users enough control to make better shots. So that’s why it’s called camera.
altacc 3y ago
There seem to be 2 types of camera apps for the iPhone: those aimed at adding filters and post-processing; and those removing all processing & automatic controls that the stock camera app wants to add (by default the iPhone software will want to apply lots of corrections, "improvements" and change settings on the fly that can make a video or photo look terrible). This is the latter, handing back control of the camera settings to the user, which is what you want for consistency of the look of a video whilst subjects move, the camera pans, etc...

brylie 3y ago

Please remember to put the download link at the top of the article or promotional material for quick access. I had to scroll down to the bottom of this 200 screen article and wasn’t sure I’d even find a download button when I got to the bottom.

fragmede 3y ago
I didn't even find it and resorted to searching the in App store for it.

madaxe_again 3y ago

I don’t get it. Surely if you want to shoot professional footage, you use a professional camera, with an actual lens, with a full frame sensor - not something which has been scaled down to the extent that it relies on digital hallucinations to make an acceptable looking image.

adlpz 3y ago
I don't get it. Surely if you want to watch movies, you go to the cinema, with an actual projector, with a full frame film - not something which has been compressed down to the extent that it relies on digital trickery to make an acceptable looking image. ^ that
franga2000 3y ago
Depends on who you are and what you want to achieve. If you're a beginner and/or don't have access to professional gear, it's great to have a way of shooting "the professional way" on whatever you happen to have around. You get most of the manual control a proper camera gives you with an interface very similar to that of a Blackmagic camera, so when you finally find yourself in front of a real one, you already have some experience with it. And while the image quality definitely doesn't compare to that of cinema cameras, 90 % of the time, it doesn't have to.
qup 3y ago
Use what you have.
the-dude 3y ago
The best camera is the one you have with you
foldr 3y ago
> with an actual lens This kind of hyperbole isn’t exactly helping your argument. Smartphone cameras have very sophisticated lenses.
deleted 3y ago
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3y ago

unfamiliar 3y ago

I am consistently disappointed with the iPhone’s video quality. It looks like the bitrate is simply too low, either to keep file size down or because the phone can’t encode 4K that fast. However shooting in ProRES is simply not practical for me. Can apps like this improve the HEVC video quality, or do they simply reuse the Apple defaults with a new UI? Or is there a ProRES workflow I could be using on the phone?

diggan 3y ago
May I ask why ProRes isn't practical for you? Would help others to suggest a workflow that would work better than what you tried before.
- unfamiliar 3y ago
  My main use case is family/holiday videos. Saving massive pro-res files would fill up the space quickly and I’m not sure how to process them into HEVC quickly and simply.
  - jpc0 3y ago
    Higher bitrate HEVC won't be any smaller than the same bitrate ProRes. Why would you think that it would be?
    - turnsout 3y ago
      You must not have tried ProRes on the iPhone. ProRes HQ consumes around 1.7GB per minute, which is an order of magnitude more than the HEVC bitrates. Apple: "ProRes files are up to 30 times larger than HEVC files." [1] [1]: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT212832
    - dylan604 3y ago
      I don't even have a clue how to force HEVC to use the same bitrate a ProRes file would use. HEVC is very efficient, and does not always use the full amount of bitrate being allowed. That's its the entire point for being. Trying to get "high bitrate" HEVC is one of those "you're holding it wrong" moments.

fodkodrasz 3y ago

Why do project managers always insist adding chat to the app? I wonder if anybody uses the chat feature at all. Personally I find the integrated chat in every util useless waste of resources. Also a further fragmentation of communication platforms for any collaboration simply makes me not want to collaborate unless I'm paid handsomely to use the yetannotherchatplatform. (just finishing some project and getting rid of several chat platforms i was forced to use because of them)

have_faith 3y ago
This one might make sense for production crew. Easy reference of specific clips/shots, maybe lossless video clip transfers, things like that
- dannyw 3y ago
  It's common to have external crew, who might not be on your team's Teams/Slack.
  - fodkodrasz 3y ago
    or who might not have access to the video cuts at all. Maybe a costume artist or a person organizing the catering does not need (or should not have at all, from an IP protection standpoint) access to the video clips, cuts. And you are back to the multiple chat apps (at least the producers/managers/organizers however they are called in that industry), or the limited access service accounts to the team's Teams/Slack with dedicated channels. Though I guess the productions recorded with an iPhone might not have so big and logistically complicated crew. But back to my original point: I think these small projects are organized on other, more personal channels already, so the in-app chat is redundant. For larger projects, like those I was pondering in the previous paragraph: they are already beyond this in-app chat, so the in-app chat is redundant. I think these in-app chats are very rarely used, and are generally not worth the effort to develop, or from a user/organization standpoint to learn and adopt. (Not to mention the closed nature of them). And this does not want to belittle this app and its chat feature, I'm just generally wondering about the phenomenon this app has particularly made me think about.

dcow 3y ago

As a non-film person, can someone explain what it means to create the same cinematic ‘look’ as Hollywood feature films? What is Blackmagic doing when recording video to make the video feel more professional?

javchz 3y ago
Marketing aside, cinematic in this context means more or less "manual control". Something that makes a video look amateurish, it's the phone trying its best to prioritise a 'clear image', but that means changing parameters mid-recording. Now, this isn't bad, it's ideal for someone who doesn't want to lose the moment without worrying about choosing the right setting (imagine a parent recording their child's recital or soccer game). But the trade-off is that it looks choppy. But if you're in a controlled environment, you can set a fixed exposure (balance between ISO, shutter speed and aperture), framerate, bit-depth, focus distance, colour temperature and microphone gain depending on your intent. As an example, image you want to have a high-contrast image with a dark silluette of someone and a bright background like a sunset, the default phone camera app will try to guess whether you want to focus on the subject or the background, and will switching between the two randomly. With manual control, you can chose, whatch you want.
- zimpenfish 3y ago
  > Something that makes a video look amateurish [...] changing parameters mid-recording A prime example of this is leaving autofocus on when you're moving about. There's many YouTubers who haven't yet learnt this lesson and it can make the video unwatchable.
  - abm53 3y ago
    I’ve seen enough videos with otherwise high production values to make me suspect there is a valid trade-off to keeping autofocus on.
    - astrange 3y ago
      It depends if you have a cameraman or not. If you don't, and you're walking away from the camera, it's probably best to leave it on and hope it tracks you.

paweladamczuk 3y ago

I recorded two takes with exact same settings except one was ISO ~1500 and the other ISO ~3000. Shouldn't the second take be around twice as bright as the first one? The change in brightness is hardly noticeable. I suppose this is the same case as every other camera app I've ever tested on Android and iOS, such granular settings like ISO are just not accessible by the system APIs available to the app. In that case though, I'd expect the app to at least not lie to me. Can someone confirm or deny this? I don't know much about photography nor iOS so I might just be confused.

fragmede 3y ago
You can see the brightness change when you fiddle with the ISO, so I'm not sure where you'd draw the conclusion that the system APIs don't give apps access to that. Moving from ISO 1500 to ISO 3000 doubles the sensor's sensitivity to light, but doesn’t inherently make the scene appear twice as bright.
jemmyw 3y ago
ISO is supposed to be the sensitivity of the film to light, and the numbers were set by a standards organisation so I'm not sure you can double the number to double the effect. Also, how does this even work on a digital camera? Surely we can't actually adjust how sensitive the sensor is to light, so is it just a simulation?
- frostburg 3y ago
  It's complex. Many modern cameras have dual or triple gain amplifiers, with various range setups. Some ISO settings might be just a digital multiplier on the highest setting of the lower gain stage before switching to the higher gain (which may result in having better snr at higher iso for some settings). Remember that "digital" sensors are mostly analog devices (dealing in continuous voltages).
- CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
  We can configure the gain of the analog amplifiers
- 3y ago

secretsatan 3y ago

Is this just... does it just add a filter to give it film grain?

tedunangst 3y ago
No.
usrusr 3y ago
Blackmagic isn't exactly a company that identifies with film grain...
coldtea 3y ago
No, that would be some app like "Super 8" and others. This one adds pro-like controls (with similar layout and features to expensive professional Blackmagic cameras), and control of the more professional features like log recording, various prores options, 10bit color, LUT preview, and so on.

danwee 3y ago

Is it only me the one who finds the usability of cameras on smartphones unbearable? I'm not talking about the software but the hardware: smartphones are thin and not as easy to grab/handle as real cameras. Anything that takes more than a few pictures is uncomfortable.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
20after4 3y ago
There are specialized gimbals made specifically for phones which solve this really nicely. One example that I've used and found it to be really impressive is the DJI Osmo.
dannyw 3y ago
Serious comment: a pop socket can help a lot.

omneity 3y ago

I'm super excited at timecode support (for automatic timeline alignment) and hopefully gyro data for stabilization in Davinci Resolve!

zx10rse 3y ago

Insta download. Kudos to the developers who made it to not collect any data from the app, you deserve a raise.

loondri 3y ago

Blackmagic Camera app might add fancy controls to the iPhone, but it can't match the quality of real professional cameras.

linsomniac 3y ago
Of course not, but it sure beats the hell out of getting a cheap or even probably moderately priced action cams.

scrollop 3y ago

Doesn't seem to be able to reduce the iphones severe oversharpening. Would pay good money for an app that accomplish that.

al_be_back 3y ago

that's a lot of functionality, for free. how are they making money from this? i didn't see a pro/paid version - unless they're planning to offer a post-processing cloud subscription later on...

ajdude 3y ago
Blackmagic also sells a lot of hardware. They may not be making money directly with this app, but they are going to earn loyalty. Another comment earlier mentioned how Davinci resolve may start gaining market share for the very reason that it's free and kids learning to edit are more likely to go with them instead of cracking adobe these days (and then using the former when they enter the workforce).
- al_be_back 3y ago
  >> it's free and kids learning to edit are more likely to go with them instead of ... I like that :)
l-lousy 3y ago
DaVinci Resolve (a very popular Color correcting and video editing software) is needed to work effectively with some of the ProRes Color schemes. Its basic version is free but there are paid upgrades to it. This app is likely a funnel to their software and other peripherals

londons_explore 3y ago

The iOS camera API is pretty limited in terms of giving you raw access to everything the built in camera has access to. Things like the parameters for the optical image stabilization algorithm aren't settable. I'm therefore surprised a 3rd party can make a camera app that 'beats' the built in one.

dannyw 3y ago
First, the APIs don't expose raw controls for everything, but it exposes a heck a lot more than the stock camera app. Second, for high-value developers like Blackmagic, Adobe, etc, there are very regular communication between engineers and product managers in both respective companies. I wouldn't expect private APIs (although they have certainly happened in 3P apps over the years; just check undocumented entitlements of IPAs from major developers), but these apps can be years / iOS releases in a making with a lot of Apple support.

supernova87a 3y ago

Maybe I missed it, but is there maybe a side-by-side comparison of the footage that usually comes out of an iPhone camera versus how it can look (with light, simple controls) out of this Blackmagic app? And question for others, while I'm at it. What was it about Blackmagic cameras or software (or company) that "broke the curve of what you could get for the same $" versus like RED or whoever expensive studio cameras? Did they do something clever with the hardware and controls to get much more out of consumer grade sensors? Or did they make tradeoffs that you eventually hit against when you try to use their cameras for real professional high-duty purposes?

avtar 3y ago
> What was it about Blackmagic cameras or software (or company) that "broke the curve of what you could get for the same $" versus like RED or whoever expensive studio cameras? They pack a lot of features for cheap that usually are found in more expensive cameras. Check feature comparisons for the Pocket 4K or 6K with pricier cameras like the A7S III or later. Their camera UI is by far one of the best designed ones compared to Sony or Panasonic. You get to use their efficient BRAW codec. And they include a copy of the Studio version of DaVinci Resolve.
gizajob 3y ago
They’re an order or magnitude two cheaper thanks to innovative and cost-effective engineering solutions from Melbourne, and offer professional connectivity alongside the ability to work with uncompressed or lightly-compressed codecs. Repurposing Off-the-shelf parts too, such as image sensors designed for other uses (such as smartbombs and guided missiles) rather than developing everything in-house. Their FPGA and high-speed dsp engineering is first-class too, and they seem to get this done with fewer,smarter people than say Sony, who have buildings full of engineers spending much of their lives writing design documents and then specifying things correctly at length before building - Blackmagic just hack it together and make it work.
- robomartin 3y ago
  > Blackmagic just hack it together and make it work. This isn't even remotely true. Nobody at that scale just hacks it together. That sort of approach works for articles on various hardware hacking websites, not for real-life design and manufacturing of products.

alephnan 3y ago

> Cell phones often have 3 rear lenses ranging from 13mm, 24mm and 77mm telephoto, plus a front lens. I’m wondering if this was done by the copywriter or the UI person who needed to add more text so that every section has the same amount of “content”. Node.js/NPM devs do this too

_ea1k 3y ago

It'd be nice to have a straightforward way to feed it over the network into OBS for live broadcast.

fcpk 3y ago

why make this iPhone specific though... locked in proprietary hardware is not nice.

TomMasz 3y ago

Blackmagic's software is extremely powerful and totally overkill for casual users. But the target audience is advanced/pro users, so that's not an issue.

hnburnsy 3y ago

I am surprised that Apple allows such control of the camera (or anything). Is this all exposed via APIs or do developers of camera apps have direct access to the hardware?

m3kw9 3y ago

Looks like another photoshop/phtotos adjusting app for videos

jcutrell 3y ago

Hey Blackmagic - you may be benefited by reviewing your copy once more on this page. You have a LOT of exclamation marks in these descriptions, and while I get that it’s an exciting product, the copy starts to get a little tiring.

sp332 3y ago

I was wondering about device compatibility. Looks like it will run on anything back to an iPhone XS/XR, although some of the features need newer hardware.

prithsr 3y ago

Maybe a silly question - but on the app itself, is there some sort of... tutorial of sorts? Really curious to learn how this world works but unsure where exactly to start on this app.

herunan 3y ago
https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-for-beginners https://photographylife.com/iso-shutter-speed-and-aperture-f...

jacktribe 3y ago

This is a forward thinking strategy for a camera maker. Instead of trying to fight the iPhone, they realized that this is a segment of the market they wouldn't capture regardless of the form factor they would adopt for Blackmagic cameras. We have 4 Blackmagic cameras at xTribe studios and they are great, but when Gen-Z podcasters come in, they'll often just put an iPhone and a Rode shotgun mic on a SmallRig cage.

pedalpete 3y ago

I haven't heard of Blackmagic, but apparently many people understand the value here. What I found strange is the images on their website have an AI generated look to them, rather than looking like they were shot with a real camera. Am I the only person who's seeing it that way?

exodust 3y ago
Yeh I think there's some heavy-handed compositing going on. I doubt it's AI-generated, but each image has definitely been through cut and paste hell. Take this image for example: https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/images/products/blackmagiccamera/landing/resolve/resolve-xl@2x.jpg https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/images/products/blackmag... Notice the side table leg next to the coffee cup? It's wrong because it shouldn't go over the foreground table. Looks like a composite mistake to me. The woman is also looking over the monitors not at them. Perhaps there is some elements of AI-generation used in the image.
- pedalpete 3y ago
  I agree it likely isn't AI generated, as they have logos and words, but it's definitely over filtered. I was referring more to the snowboarding photos. You're right, there is something strange about the leg in that table. There is a reflection, which I think is causing part of the problem, but also looks like a cut-line which shouldn't exist.

ShadowBanThis01 3y ago

I generally like BMD and own one of their cameras, but they need to pull up their big-boy pants and support ProRes Raw in Resolve. They support other raw formats, so continued ass-dragging on this is just... petty.

tortoise_in 3y ago

Does apple allow 3rd party apps to use entire camara libraries?