3 ms·

When the government also gives de jure monopolies on production and distribution, they can reasonably call for price caps as well. You're thinking of the way ec

by kolbe 3y ago

When the government also gives de jure monopolies on production and distribution, they can reasonably call for price caps as well. You're thinking of the way economics work in a free market.

whatshisface 3y ago
Insulin was invented a long enough time ago it is not clear to me why it is not a competitive commodity market by now.
- kolbe 3y ago
  Welcome to crony capitalism. It's America's specialty.
  - RagnarD 3y ago
    Plenty of countries do it. It's a misnomer to call it capitalism. It's fascism: nominal private ownership with defacto government control in different potential ways (e.g. force backed barriers to competition, regulation boosting costs, etc.)
    - kolbe 3y ago
      I think that's why Crony Capitalism has a very specific meaning different from Capitalism. Modifiers make a difference. For example, National Socialism and Socialism are very dissimilar.
      - RagnarD 3y ago
        National Socialism is a type of socialism and the National Socialist party platform is overtly socialist in every way if you want to look it up in historical documents. The ludicrous idea that they were "right" was a crude smear from the communists who were merely trying to undercut a competing gang. A smear even more ludicrously carried forward to the present day by the staggeringly ignorant.
        slater 3y ago
        National Socialism is socialist in the same sense that the DPRK or the GDR are/were democratic.
  - warbeforepeace 3y ago
    Passing this bill gives the drug companies the same amount of money as today. It only capped copays. Doing that still just passes on increased insurance costs to individuals. Drug companies would still make a ton.They need to wait for their in house insulin so they are not just giving a ton of money to the drug companies through the VA/Medicaid. This was proposed by republicans to help save their pharma buddies from losing a ton of business in california to the state contracted insulin. If the cap went into effect there is no reason for people to switch to the state funded insulin.
    - kolbe 3y ago
      Sure. I wasn't really responding to this bill directly.
- nradov 3y ago
  Insulin is not a single drug. Discounters such as Walmart already offer low prices for generic insulin. The expensive branded forms have different release profiles which are more effective at controlling blood sugar in some patients. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/walmart-unveils-low-price-analog-insulin-amid-rising-diabetes-drug-costs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/walmart-unveils-low-price-an... While we should do more to improve insulin affordability, the pricing is a bit of a distraction from the core issue. While type-1 diabetics will always need some exogenous insulin, the majority of diabetics are type-2. And research has shown that the majority of those patients can put the disease into remission with lifestyle changes. That is where governments should be focusing. https://www.virtahealth.com/research https://www.virtahealth.com/research
  - lazide 3y ago
    Good luck telling Americans they should exercise more and eat less/healthier as a solution.
- RagnarD 3y ago
  Many companies manufacture insulin. There's also not just one kind. Two pervasive types are fast acting and slow acting, the latter typically used to provide a low level continuous boost throughout a day. Manufacturing high quality product in volume isn't particularly easy because it's a biologic drug requiring genetically modified organisms to create the protein, typically E Coli, and purification to human injectable standard is costly, requiring removal of the pieces of cells that were used to make it, including endotoxins in the case of E Coli. Beyond that, there's an easy way to guide analysis of what appear to be excessive costs in any market: find out where government force has screwed it up. It will always be the cause.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- rblatz 3y ago
  I’m seeing the price per vial of generic insulin lispro (Humalog) for roughly $20 a vial. I’m not sure how many vials a person needs but that’s not completely nuts. Yeah they’ve invented newer more expensive types of insulin that better control blood sugar, and they are continuing to invent newer types that are even better. Which I think is great and allowing there to be a financial incentive to create new and better insulins.
- ikiris 3y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8597930/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8597930/

by kolbe 3y ago

When the government also gives de jure monopolies on production and distribution, they can reasonably call for price caps as well. You're thinking of the way economics work in a free market.

whatshisface 3y ago

Insulin was invented a long enough time ago it is not clear to me why it is not a competitive commodity market by now.

kolbe 3y ago
Welcome to crony capitalism. It's America's specialty.
- RagnarD 3y ago
  Plenty of countries do it. It's a misnomer to call it capitalism. It's fascism: nominal private ownership with defacto government control in different potential ways (e.g. force backed barriers to competition, regulation boosting costs, etc.)
  - kolbe 3y ago
    I think that's why Crony Capitalism has a very specific meaning different from Capitalism. Modifiers make a difference. For example, National Socialism and Socialism are very dissimilar.
    - RagnarD 3y ago
      National Socialism is a type of socialism and the National Socialist party platform is overtly socialist in every way if you want to look it up in historical documents. The ludicrous idea that they were "right" was a crude smear from the communists who were merely trying to undercut a competing gang. A smear even more ludicrously carried forward to the present day by the staggeringly ignorant.
      - slater 3y ago
        National Socialism is socialist in the same sense that the DPRK or the GDR are/were democratic.
- warbeforepeace 3y ago
  Passing this bill gives the drug companies the same amount of money as today. It only capped copays. Doing that still just passes on increased insurance costs to individuals. Drug companies would still make a ton.They need to wait for their in house insulin so they are not just giving a ton of money to the drug companies through the VA/Medicaid. This was proposed by republicans to help save their pharma buddies from losing a ton of business in california to the state contracted insulin. If the cap went into effect there is no reason for people to switch to the state funded insulin.
  - kolbe 3y ago
    Sure. I wasn't really responding to this bill directly.
nradov 3y ago
Insulin is not a single drug. Discounters such as Walmart already offer low prices for generic insulin. The expensive branded forms have different release profiles which are more effective at controlling blood sugar in some patients. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/walmart-unveils-low-price-analog-insulin-amid-rising-diabetes-drug-costs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/walmart-unveils-low-price-an... While we should do more to improve insulin affordability, the pricing is a bit of a distraction from the core issue. While type-1 diabetics will always need some exogenous insulin, the majority of diabetics are type-2. And research has shown that the majority of those patients can put the disease into remission with lifestyle changes. That is where governments should be focusing. https://www.virtahealth.com/research https://www.virtahealth.com/research
- lazide 3y ago
  Good luck telling Americans they should exercise more and eat less/healthier as a solution.
RagnarD 3y ago
Many companies manufacture insulin. There's also not just one kind. Two pervasive types are fast acting and slow acting, the latter typically used to provide a low level continuous boost throughout a day. Manufacturing high quality product in volume isn't particularly easy because it's a biologic drug requiring genetically modified organisms to create the protein, typically E Coli, and purification to human injectable standard is costly, requiring removal of the pieces of cells that were used to make it, including endotoxins in the case of E Coli. Beyond that, there's an easy way to guide analysis of what appear to be excessive costs in any market: find out where government force has screwed it up. It will always be the cause.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
rblatz 3y ago
I’m seeing the price per vial of generic insulin lispro (Humalog) for roughly $20 a vial. I’m not sure how many vials a person needs but that’s not completely nuts. Yeah they’ve invented newer more expensive types of insulin that better control blood sugar, and they are continuing to invent newer types that are even better. Which I think is great and allowing there to be a financial incentive to create new and better insulins.
ikiris 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8597930/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8597930/