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“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.” Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “
by loloquwowndueo 3y ago
“cast bodies might be more difficult to fix in the event of major damage, such as a crash.”
Raise your hand if you’ve ever had a car NOT be written off after “major damage”. The industry already doesn’t bother to fix cars, they just get scrapped, so I don’t see what the actual difference is.
- tifik 3y agoThat the car is written off doesnt mean it gets scrapped though. It usually gets auctioned, and if its fixable, some mechanic can buy it for peanuts and put it back on the market.
- GenerocUsername 3y agoSo why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off. Sounds like extra steps for the profit of middle men
- pengaru 3y ago> So why the write off nonsense. Just send it to a repair shop directly and if it cannot be repaired, then initiate a write off. Well to get the owner of the written-off car installed into a new vehicle of course! With a whole new loan and likely a higher insurance premium esp. if they "upgraded" in the process.
- Mountain_Skies 3y agoRisk mostly. Many of the vehicles won't be repairable and will just go to the scrap yard. Some will appear to repairable but after some effort end up scrapped too. And some will be repairable but only by guys who specialize in such things and have customers willing to buy a retitled salvage vehicle. For the insurance company, it's not worth the effort and added risk. That someone else can make some money off the missed margin isn't a big deal to the insurance company.
- robennals 3y agoBecause it wouldn’t be economic to repair it to “good as new” status. The people who buy salvage titled cars are usually happy to drive a car that doesn’t work quite right if they get a killer deal for it.
- RickHull 3y agoThe original owner of the car has some ability to refuse the repair job. It may be impossible to (economically) bring the car back to its previous state. The insurance company prefers not to take the risk. They write a clean check and recover some cost by selling the salvage, which will likely be repaired and sold.
- vel0city 3y agoWriting it off is just the insurance company buying it from you for your insured amount because they owe you the value of the car and it'll be cheaper to just buy it from you than repair it. Normally you can then buy it back for what they expect to get at auction and do the repairs yourself with a salvage title.
- ajsnigrutin 3y agoAt least in my country, insurance can only replace with original parts... A newish car, a minor crash, bumper, hood, a front light or two, couple of airbags... at ~1500eur per light, 2-3k for original hood, 2-3k for airbags, body work, and low eurotax estimate of the price of the car, your repair cost is easily above 70% of the "car value". A few trips to the dump, some aftermarket parts and someone to do the work for cheap, and you've got a drivable car.
- mlyle 3y agoThe insurance company is always looking at: - what it would cost them to repair it (including the risk of having to get additional work done, etc) - what the car was worth minus what they can sell it for at auction. If the values get close, they total the car. Then someone else buys it: maybe for parts, or maybe to repair it to a standard that the original owner wouldn't have been happy with.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> So why the write off nonsense Write-off is about insurance policies, and whether it is cheaper to repair damage to the standard committed to by the insurer within the parameters (e. g., new original manufacturer parts) in the insurance contact or to pay the amount the insurer is committed to pay in the alternative. It is only tangentially related to whether it is econonically viable to restore the vehicle to usable condition.
- thechao 3y agoWhen hail totaled my car, I kept it for another 4 years. Just "cosmetic" damage. It's still kicking around in New Mexico; I guess it's 17 years old, now.
- tim333 3y agoMy current car was an insurance write off and looks good if you look at it casually though looking closely the line is not quite straight down the side where it was hit and you can see a boundary in the paint where the respray finished. Works fine though.
- cityofdelusion 3y agoCars bought at auction have a salvage title, and they are not repaired to a level that would be considered acceptable by most people. Those cars are usually mechanics projects using junkyard parts and zip ties. The other thing is that generally, a person is free to buy their car back from the insurance company instead of taking the cash from the totaling. That is when they will discover they can't just send it to a shop and get it repaired for any reasonable amount, plus the salvage title means no one else wants it.
- SkyPuncher 3y agoIsn’t that exactly what happens? You send it for an estimate. If that estimate is too high, insurance gives you a check then sells the car as a salvage.
- jjtheblunt 3y agoor gets parted out?
- bitbangboom 3y agoYeah I feel like this is the next stepping stone on a path we have been on for years. I remember Rich Rebuilds got rear ended in his Rivian and the total repair bill was somewhere around $30K if I remember right. I really do wish repairability was considered more not less, but with safety standards, manufacturing costs, etc it seems like cars are racing towards the cliff of just “discarding” if they have a problem just like the rest of consumer goods
- semi-extrinsic 3y agoWith EVs this problem is getting a lot worse. In latest-gen EVs the battery pack is a stressed member of the frame. Any type of collision that distorts the frame will also imply a deformation of the battery module, which means instant write-off. So if you think about it - if you first decide you need to go down the "structural battery" route to save cost and weight, you've already lost repairability if the frame is bent. Then moving to a cast frame doesn't really change anything.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoCan you point to any references/examples of this? Not a challenge, but as an EV owner I didn't know this and I'm interested to learn more.
- vel0city 3y agoHe's probably referencing Tesla's structural battery packs. Essentially the pack makes up the bottom part of the frame of the car. https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack-first-picture/ https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Tanoc 3y agoThe Ford Mach-E does the same thing. There's thin box frame rails as part of the traditional ladder frame, and the battery pack actually forms the floorpan and stressed crossmembers. Without the battery pack the frame will deform because there's no lateral reinforcement, making it this weird hybrid of a ladder frame and unibody that it shares with the Model X and Ioniq 5. Most EVs like the Bolt and the Ioniq 6 are unibodies however since they're just designed like regular cars with battery packs shoved where the fuel tank would normally go under the rear seat or rear hatch floor, and the battery pack simply reinforces the floor.
- SoftTalker 3y agoThere are body shops all over town here repairing collision damage every day. Yes a major crash is a write off especially on an older car, but the problem is that with cast frames, if they are more likely to be irreparably damaged in a collision, that's more write-offs. That means insurance premiums for these cars will be more costly as well.
- SkyPuncher 3y agoMy understanding is frame damage generally results in a write off. It’s too expand too risky.
- SoftTalker 3y agoIt often does if it's severe, but if the frame is just "tweaked" it can often be pulled back into spec with specialzed jigs and equipment. Any comprehensive collision repair shop will have that equipment.
- SkyPuncher 3y agoMy understanding is it’s just not common to do that anymore. Most vehicles are already unibody, so fixing frames is much harder. If the damage is bad enough o require a frame fix, it’s very likely there’s significant damage to other parts of the car.
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y agoThey don’t always get scrapped - they often get sent out to another country, sold at a discount, fixed there.
- oldpersonintx 3y agoso are we at..."this is bad because it will restrict the flow of unsafe junkers passed off to someone living in Panama"?
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y agoI don't know tbh. I just drive a 10-15 y.o. US vehicle in Poland because the previous owner imported it. Who knows, when I'm done with it, it might even be exported on out of the EU.
- 90-00-09 3y agoNot unsafe necessarily. The cost of labor is so high in the US that fixing even minor damage might not be cost efficient. Also consider the possible increase in the insurance fees if you continue driving a car after repairs. Other countries have lower cost of labor overall, so it's a profitable (and, hopefully, safe) business for them.
- skullone 3y agoLots of passed off vehicles to poorer countries tend to be body on frame style. Lots of ford/Toyota trucks, where frame damage can as "simple" as welding steel bar stock or straightening with a basic frame puller. If a unibody vehicle is totaled from major damage in the US, they get scrapped of nearly every usable part, then crushed and melted down. Not even worth the shipping/hassle to send a smashed up Kia to Central America, let alone Africa. People aren't stupid. They're just as savvy at this, if not more, than we would ever be. Hence the amount of body on frame SUVs and trucks that get salvaged there. Sure, you'll see "beat up" cheap cars there, but they'll pass on anything majorly damaged, cuz even there, it's simply not worth it.
- throw9away6 3y agoI think having cast body be written off is preferable to having forever damaged car
- oldpersonintx 3y agoexactly! pretty much anything beyond superficial damage to a body panel...new car please, that is why I pay insurance
- dylan604 3y agoi can't imagine what insurance company premiums are going to be when they figure out how much they're going to be paying out for each incident with one of these.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoHand raised. Of course, your question is basically a tautology if you define "major damage" as "that which causes a car to get totaled". The whole concern is that, with these cast bodies, damage that would have been considered fixable or minor in the past now becomes an instant write off.
- loloquwowndueo 3y agoWell the article says major damage, not me.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoI know, but you are the one proposing that "major damage" is always written off.
- hwillis 3y agoNot really. Major damage would be damage to the subframes or wheel wells. It's a step right above getting entire axles ripped off. In most situations, for most cars, that will total the car.
- alistairSH 3y agoHand raised! I was rear-ended in a new Jeep Wrangler. Damage included a bent frame, crushed rear bumper, bent rear hatch, bent roll cage, bent rear fender, shattered tail light, and a bent floor. It was nearly $20k in damage. It was repaired. [and I very quickly sold it because I had zero faith in the longevity of the repairs]
- segmondy 3y agoHands down. I haven't personally experienced major damage, but I have bought and know folks to buy many of these written off cars only to have them repaired, certified by the state and put back on the roads.
- hellotheretoday 3y agoThat doesn’t mean it’s not fixed by someone else after auction and salvage titling assuming it’s a car that’s somewhat desirable. So this is just a move that generates more waste?
- skullone 3y agoI mean, there's certainly rebuilt/salvaged cars, but more often than not people are scammed into buying those from shady AF places. Lesson is, don't waste your time or money on a unibody car with major damage. Scrap em. It's pointless. And people arguing we need to repair everything even from major damage when it makes zero economic or ecological sense and from those with no experience in the industry is just tiring.
- crote 3y agoIt does lower the bar for what is considered "major damage". Having a car written off when you need to essentially take the entire thing apart is fairly reasonable, as is not wanting to repair the actual body part itself. When the car is made out of multiple different parts, a low-speed bump into a bollard or another car might result in the bumper needing to be replaced. Not the cheapest repair, but definitely quite doable and probably not worthy of a complete writeoff. When the entire car is made out of a single cast that very same bump results in the entire body needing to be replaced - and that's just not going to happen.
- panick21_ 3y agoThose castings have a slot for crush cans that are not welded. If you have a low-speed bump it would crush your bumper and the crush cans behind it, it would not effect the casting. Literally nobody plans to remove crush cans from the vehicle, even if the whole body is cast. See: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/04/Tesla-mOdel-Y-underbody-2.jpg?quality=82&strip=all https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/04/Tesla...
- gnicholas 3y agoThey sell the wreck and recover some money that way. If the new vehicles are essentially unsalable, this will cause premiums to rise.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jdmg94 3y agoIn my 3rd world home country most cars are bought on copart as "salvage", they get fixed up and usually get ran well above the 100k miles, this change will undoubtedly reduce the opportunity to give new life to salvage cars while making it more dangerous for the people who have no other choice. In the end this will create a lot more waste than we had before, its a shame because Toyota's are the most highly regarded cars where I am from
- theGnuMe 3y agoThey are scrapped but then usually resold/exported to a cheaper country where they get fixed up and sold there. Maybe the unicast cars will get a lot of duct tape and Bondo.
- bahmboo 3y agoHad a car with major body damage. Repair estimate magically came in $100 less than salvage value. Insurance company went with repair of course.
- bobsmooth 3y agoI had to fight with my insurance to not have my 2005 model car written off after a fender bender. Thankfully I did because this was just before used car prices skyrocketed.
- hokkos 3y agoThey don't get scrapped most of the time they are send overseas and repaired.
- MarkusWandel 3y agoMy car got written off. 11 years old but in good condition, got hit on the rear left corner, sheet metal work was damaged. The tier 1 body shop that the insurance company sent me to quoted about 3/4 of the car's (undamaged) value in repair costs, including replacing most of the left side, the back window among other things, and even $600 worth of paint. Shopping for a replacement vehicle in the damaged one, various tier 2-3 dealer types said, oh, we could fix that up real nice for $3K, and one of them would have been happy to have the car at the insurance company's quoted value in damaged condition. So you can bet that that thing has by now been auctioned off, fixed up like that and sold, possibly with a "rebuilt" title, at a modest profit, and continues to be used. It was too good to scrap and the damage, while a PITA to fix, was not even remotely structural. So it's not that insurance companies consign all these written-off cars to the scrap heap. It's just that they don't want to deal with the repairs, and possible post-repair complaints. So just like bad debts, it's sent down the pipe to the people best matched to the job. A broken cast frame would short-circuit this process, causing the car to be scrapped for real and thus raising costs for everyone.
- hakfoo 3y agoMy mum had a 2004 Sonata and it got T-boned with like 3,000km on the odometer. It was like a $17k car brand new, with and they put like $15k of body work (and then hiring a loaner car for a month while doing it) into it. Ran fine for another 150,000km before she traded it in, but I was baffled that the other driver's insurance didn't just say "we're writing it off, go get another one." OTOH, she was so pleased by their willingness to pay without hassle that she switched to that carrier.
- alphabettsy 3y agoWas in a front-end crash with minor frame damage in addition to airbags deploying. Vehicle was repaired, frame was able to be straightened on a rack.