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Google put in a ton of work to make all the Linux and Android sandboxing while still being able to do file sharing into the sandboxes, Wayland GUI app bridging,

Google put in a ton of work to make all the Linux and Android sandboxing while still being able to do file sharing into the sandboxes, Wayland GUI app bridging, usb pass-through, and a bunch of other stuff. https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/containers_and_vms.md#Overview https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/con... ChromeOS got good and is wildly underrated for software development. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

slim 3y ago
Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?
- AJRF 3y ago
  All new devs are given Chromebooks unless they need a specific device (like a MacBook for iOS devs)
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    Are they still given a Debian workstation besides that? Didn't know they are dogfooding ChromeOS that seriously.
    - legolas2412 3y ago
      Nopes, everyone uses cloud VMs by default. These VMs were very powerful too.
      - curt15 3y ago
        Is gLinux[1] still a thing? https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioners/how-google-got-to-rolling-linux-releases-for-desktops https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioner...
        wffurr 3y ago
        Yes; that’s what’s used on the VMs, workstations, and Linux laptops.
  - westurner 3y ago
    But aren't devs also provided with: SSH, CI build minutes, and GCP budgets for containers and VMs? To actually dogfood Chromebooks internally like Chromebooks for Education and for Families, Google would need to deny its devs containers behind a greyed out "Turn on Linux" button and deny them access to Colab notebooks and AI platform etc (while only allowing Play Store apps); nothing to SSH to, no notebooks, no devpod, no local git repos (!), no local terminal to run e.g. pytest tests with, no devtools JS console, etc.
    - nolist_policy 3y ago
      I'm pretty sure the grayed out "Turn on Linux" button due to policy setting by the organization managing the Chromebook.
    - ajross 3y ago
      I don't follow? Software developers... aren't students or children. It's a different market with different product segmentation and feature sets, it just happens to run on the same hardware and OS. And it's true that schools and parents often demand that their kids not hack stuff that the "admins" don't understand. And maybe that's bad or misguided or whatever. But it's not a statement about using a Chromebook as a developer client, which IMHO works very well.
      - westurner 3y ago
        The kids can't code locally on a git repo on Chromebooks and run make; they don't even have a terminal. Googlers only code remotely on Chromebooks. The kids MUST be able to run `pytest arithmetic.ipynb` on whichever platform. (It was not appropriate for Google 2016-2020 (?) to decide that we should all accept WASM runtime vulnerabilities in sandboxed browser processes running as the same user instead of per-app SELinux contexts like Android requires since 4.4+, or instead of containers and VMs like almost all of Google's hosted apps and internal systems) Cannot believe there's not even a JS console on these for the kids (because "Inspect Element" and "Turn on Linux" are blocked for them all)
        3y ago
  - mdwalters 3y ago
    Which brand, though? I have a feeling it's one of those first-party Google Chromebooks...
    - ajross 3y ago
      My daily driver right now is a mid-tier Tiger Lake board. You can get the equivalent for sub-$300 on Amazon. The client doesn't need to do much in the modern developer flow, running a browser, an X server and an ssh client is 90% of anything that needs to happen, with the occasional Linux Wayland client from the VM thrown in (Thunderbird for personal mail, occasional use of Audacity, stuff like that).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - fancl20 3y ago
      In most cases HP
    - wffurr 3y ago
      I have a couple of Samsungs and a Pixelbook. You can BYOD with Chromebooks, too, so you can pick smaller, lighter ones or ones with bigger screens than the standard offerings if you’re willing to pay for it.
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    You can request the computer you want. They will push you towards Chromebook but you can pick a normal Linux machine or a MacBook or even a Windows computer (don't do this).
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      Someone at Google needs to support the top 80% desktop market.
      - wffurr 3y ago
        I used a Windows laptop for some time. It made browser testing in IE significantly simpler and otherwise worked fine for running Chrome + remote access to workstation. It was also the only model offered with a garaged stylus, which I used and tested quite a lot. I used that laptop to skip over the lousy overheating butterfly MacBook generation. Now I have an M1 Pro MacBook like everyone else. They also offer Windows on the cloud VMs.
- danwilkerson 3y ago
  Yup!
- LordDragonfang 3y ago
  They do, but for the googlers I know it's just as a thin client for their remote desktop software (https://remotedesktop.google.com/ https://remotedesktop.google.com/).
- xt00 3y ago
  So wait to be specific here -- is the setup that people develop on: 1. chrome-os device 2. install a debian VM 3. do all their development in a VM where they can easily install packages they need etc? 4. so they are doing dev in a VM on a core-i3 intel machine I guess?
  - mdwalters 3y ago
    Not exactly. There are some ways to install GNU/Linux distros on Chromebooks, the Eupnea project's Depthboot script[1], for example, lets users build/run a distro by extracting the rootfs from an ISO file, and apply Chromebook-specific patches, like using ChromeOS' kernel, using keyd to make patches to support the Chromebook keyboard's action keys, and much others. (Disclaimer: I'm the current maintainer of the Eupnea project.) [1]: https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder
  - danans 3y ago
    If the question is about Google, they use the Chromebooks to connect to cloud hosted dev environments. Often these days that's the internal cloud based IDE whose UI is VSCode based. For many legacy command line tasks, you SSH to a cloud workstation. More than ever though, you can get away with a lot of programming tasks without ever touching a terminal. For those who really want a traditional Linux Desktop environment, you use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to the same cloud VM that you SSH to.
- bitwize 3y ago
  As I understand it, yes, albeit it's much easier at Google than some places. Google is pretty much a supercomputer with a company built around it; the Chromebook can serve as your terminal into that supercomputer, accessing your files, codebase, and other resources all remotely.
septic-liqueur 3y ago
Couldn't agree more. I recently bought a cheap $200 Chromebook and I have to say that it outperforms my high end Windows + WSL2 machine from work for programming related tasks. Linux just works without all the WSL issues, I can run Visual Studio Code, Docker and anything that I tried so far. It's actually a delight to work on. I can only imagine how much better yet it will be with a top tier Chromebook
- VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
  I find this very hard to believe. There is no "$200 Chromebook" that will ever out-perform a "high-end" machine no matter if it's running Windows + WSL2 or not. So what are the specs of this "high-end" machine?
  - freedomben 3y ago
    they did say "for programming related tasks" which could just be running vim. I agree though, this claim seems unlikely to me.
  - mderazon 3y ago
    I meant to say that it "outperforms" less in terms of speed (although it's not bad relative to the price of the laptop) but more in terms of developer experience. Everything just works in Linux and it's fast compared to WSL which I get constant issues.
    - ksaj 3y ago
      The issue I see with WSL all the time is long waits as things start up. I have no idea what it's doing, but it is painfully slow starting nearly anything up. It's like drive reads are one character at a time or something! Once it gets going, things are fine.
      - d3w4s9 3y ago
        WSL still has a lot of problems. You can find lots of issues on github that are common problems but yet open for years without a solution. Examples: * Slower IO -- not sure if this can ever be fixed, but quite a bummer * cpu utilization at 100% due to an issue with WSLg #6982 * no access to Internet when host is connected to VPN #5068 * very slow network in some situations #4901 These are not some edge cases -- they affect things that I use every day. Some of them have workarounds but overall this is still not very usable. I decided that it was easier to just get a separate machine and install Linux on it.
pjmlp 3y ago
Paying top dollars/euros for a laptop with 8GB/128GB isn't my idea of an ideal developer laptop.
- Teckla 3y ago
  8GB/128GB goes a lot further on a Chromebook than it does on creaky, old, slow, bloated Windows. And Chromebook prices are very good. I recently got a Chromebook and I'm amazed at how snappy and fast it is. And its built in Linux is amazing.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    If you say so. I'm on windows and most of my memory is going to chrome and firefox. I've had some pretty severe issues with a chromebook running out of memory because the devs decided swap wasn't allowed (and I could never get the kernel to build and install properly). The builtin chrome definitely doesn't stop single websites from using most of a gigabyte of RAM.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Nope, not good at all, and my Asus 1215B proves otherwise. 300 euro from 2009, upgraded with 8GB and 1TB SSD, and with native graphics that beat WebGL 2.0, running latest Xubuntu.
    - omnifischer 3y ago
      if one is already a geek it is not needed. The only reason myself being a geek moved to chromeos - no need to worry if upgrading some Xorg will kill Xserver. Yes, it does happen if one has autoupdates - Will my zoom/camera/mic work after I make pulseaudio->pipewire-><whatever latest>? No idea but chromeos - just works - There are software engineers that have no installation/hardware/sysadmin experience (or they dont want to learn). - Just close and open device. Chromeos is instant. (yes, one can fiddle with pm-utils to get modules (un)loaded - no life is too short to fix these. - Many programs like netflix need some form of terrible DRM and dont work with linux. Some people still need to live with DRM.
Laremere 3y ago
I loved Chromebooks. However I've been pretty turned off by them when my Chromebook which was working perfectly fine recently told me it's not getting security updates anymore. Now because the OS and browser are the same machine, the whole system is insecure. Next laptop will be a framework, so I guess I'll see how that goes.
- septic-liqueur 3y ago
  They've extended updates recently https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 For old models as well
  - TheCycoONE 3y ago
    Not for the ones that ended support this August. I have a kevin (Samsung Plus v1) and flashed it with libreboot for Linux at that point.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  Similar to you, I'm a happy Chromebook customer with a good Chromebook that no longer receives updates since earlier this year. But Google also offers ChromeOS Flex [1] which I now run on my Chromebook. You can even install ChromeOS Flex on a non-ChromeOS PC. [1] https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/
- foota 3y ago
  I think they're decoupling the os and browser releases, although I'm not sure if it works for old ones or not. https://www.androidpolice.com/chromebook-decouple-chrome-from-chromeos/ https://www.androidpolice.com/chromebook-decouple-chrome-fro...
isp 3y ago
ChromeOS is wildly underrated in general, not only for software development. App sandboxing on standard (non-ChromeOS) Linux distributions is painful and finicky, while it "just works" on ChromeOS. I wish there was a non-hacky way to use Chromebooks without a Google account. The hacky options are: - "Switch to dev mode". But I don't want to be prompted to factory reset each boot. - "Create a dummy Google account and use that". But I don't want file syncing and tracking to reach Google at all, not even on a dummy account. - "Create a dummy Google account and use guest mode". But I want persistent storage.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Chromium OS might be a good choice for you. I ran it on my Pinebook Pro for a bit and really liked it, and it's much more open.
  - isp 3y ago
    Thanks - I had a very brief look at Chromium OS, but couldn't spot answers to: (1) Is there a de-googled version of Chromium OS? (2) Is there a non-hacky way to install it to a Chromebook?
    - rd07 3y ago
      I haven't used it yet, but maybe openfyde.io is one of the de-googled versions of Chromium OS
  - bubblethink 3y ago
    Nobody has the time to build, test, and maintain Chromium OS. Distros barely manage to build and maintain chromium.
- ajross 3y ago
  > - "Switch to dev mode". But I don't want to be prompted to factory reset each boot. Developer mode simply puts up a splash at boot warning you that the OS is custom, you just press enter to boot. The requirement to do a drive wipe is a one-time thing when you enable it the first time (for obvious reasons, to prevent exfiltration of data stored by a secured OS).
eikenberry 3y ago
How much of that has been upstreamed? I dug around a little but could only find things on upstreaming kernel patches.
- Bu9818 3y ago
  What in particular needs to be upstreamed and to what projects?
joeframbach 3y ago
[flagged]
- wffurr 3y ago
  Just because it’s a Google product? They use it internally.
nnwright 3y ago
Completely agree. Now if they would just add a meta key to the bottom row of the keyboard I'd be a happy user. Ctrl and Alt are not enough. And seriously, they are comically large on every chromebook I've owned. Give me a meta key in all that wasted space.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  There's the button that replaced caps lock. I mean, yes, I'd still rather have another button, but it does work in my personal experience.
  - nnwright 3y ago
    Oh true, I'd forgotten that. Of course the issue with it being in a different place is that many people use multiple OSs and muscle memory is a thing. I'd rather have a reprogrammable key where meta should be.
amelius 3y ago
ChromeOS might be great, but I wish I could just buy it from an OS company, not a company that wants my data.
ssss11 3y ago
How does it go with things like tracking or serving personalised ads? Genuine concern with anything google. Current and future risks.
d3w4s9 3y ago
I used a Chromebook for a few months including for software development, but find there are a number of major issues (as of 2021): * window management was a hit and miss. I was not able to do split screen for a Chrome window and a Linux window (vscode). You can do that for two Chrome windows. A big disappointment * many GUI applications are only available through... Android Play Store, e.g. Cisco Anyconnect. Fortunately this works, but it's not an enjoyable experience. * Chromebook built-in keyboards usually don't have F11 or F12 keys, but you need them as a software developer. And there are a number of other smaller issues that made me feel it would be easier to stick with a "standard" laptop, although I do think there is a lot of potential. I sold that Chromebook later.
lucw 3y ago
So many people over the years tried to turn their ipad into a remote development machine and failed spectacularly, because of the aggressive app suspend (your ssh/web sessions get disconnceted) and the weird keyboard support in iOS (keyboard shortcuts for text navigation are not the same as PC). In the mean time, ChromeOS is the perfect OS for that. I have my own bare metal server with code-server installed. My chromeos 2-in-1 detachable is absolutely perfect for that usecase, and I can connect my split mech keyboard. Best of all ? I bought that ChromeOS tablet for $180 USD on amazon. It works BETTER for remote development than a $1000 USD ipad.

slim 3y ago

Do google developers develop on Chromebooks ?

AJRF 3y ago
All new devs are given Chromebooks unless they need a specific device (like a MacBook for iOS devs)
- nolist_policy 3y ago
  Are they still given a Debian workstation besides that? Didn't know they are dogfooding ChromeOS that seriously.
  - legolas2412 3y ago
    Nopes, everyone uses cloud VMs by default. These VMs were very powerful too.
    - curt15 3y ago
      Is gLinux[1] still a thing? https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioners/how-google-got-to-rolling-linux-releases-for-desktops https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/developers-practitioner...
      - wffurr 3y ago
        Yes; that’s what’s used on the VMs, workstations, and Linux laptops.
- westurner 3y ago
  But aren't devs also provided with: SSH, CI build minutes, and GCP budgets for containers and VMs? To actually dogfood Chromebooks internally like Chromebooks for Education and for Families, Google would need to deny its devs containers behind a greyed out "Turn on Linux" button and deny them access to Colab notebooks and AI platform etc (while only allowing Play Store apps); nothing to SSH to, no notebooks, no devpod, no local git repos (!), no local terminal to run e.g. pytest tests with, no devtools JS console, etc.
  - nolist_policy 3y ago
    I'm pretty sure the grayed out "Turn on Linux" button due to policy setting by the organization managing the Chromebook.
  - ajross 3y ago
    I don't follow? Software developers... aren't students or children. It's a different market with different product segmentation and feature sets, it just happens to run on the same hardware and OS. And it's true that schools and parents often demand that their kids not hack stuff that the "admins" don't understand. And maybe that's bad or misguided or whatever. But it's not a statement about using a Chromebook as a developer client, which IMHO works very well.
    - westurner 3y ago
      The kids can't code locally on a git repo on Chromebooks and run make; they don't even have a terminal. Googlers only code remotely on Chromebooks. The kids MUST be able to run `pytest arithmetic.ipynb` on whichever platform. (It was not appropriate for Google 2016-2020 (?) to decide that we should all accept WASM runtime vulnerabilities in sandboxed browser processes running as the same user instead of per-app SELinux contexts like Android requires since 4.4+, or instead of containers and VMs like almost all of Google's hosted apps and internal systems) Cannot believe there's not even a JS console on these for the kids (because "Inspect Element" and "Turn on Linux" are blocked for them all)
      - 3y ago
- mdwalters 3y ago
  Which brand, though? I have a feeling it's one of those first-party Google Chromebooks...
  - ajross 3y ago
    My daily driver right now is a mid-tier Tiger Lake board. You can get the equivalent for sub-$300 on Amazon. The client doesn't need to do much in the modern developer flow, running a browser, an X server and an ssh client is 90% of anything that needs to happen, with the occasional Linux Wayland client from the VM thrown in (Thunderbird for personal mail, occasional use of Audacity, stuff like that).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - fancl20 3y ago
    In most cases HP
  - wffurr 3y ago
    I have a couple of Samsungs and a Pixelbook. You can BYOD with Chromebooks, too, so you can pick smaller, lighter ones or ones with bigger screens than the standard offerings if you’re willing to pay for it.
- saagarjha 3y ago
  You can request the computer you want. They will push you towards Chromebook but you can pick a normal Linux machine or a MacBook or even a Windows computer (don't do this).
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Someone at Google needs to support the top 80% desktop market.
    - wffurr 3y ago
      I used a Windows laptop for some time. It made browser testing in IE significantly simpler and otherwise worked fine for running Chrome + remote access to workstation. It was also the only model offered with a garaged stylus, which I used and tested quite a lot. I used that laptop to skip over the lousy overheating butterfly MacBook generation. Now I have an M1 Pro MacBook like everyone else. They also offer Windows on the cloud VMs.
danwilkerson 3y ago
Yup!
LordDragonfang 3y ago
They do, but for the googlers I know it's just as a thin client for their remote desktop software (https://remotedesktop.google.com/ https://remotedesktop.google.com/).
xt00 3y ago
So wait to be specific here -- is the setup that people develop on: 1. chrome-os device 2. install a debian VM 3. do all their development in a VM where they can easily install packages they need etc? 4. so they are doing dev in a VM on a core-i3 intel machine I guess?
- mdwalters 3y ago
  Not exactly. There are some ways to install GNU/Linux distros on Chromebooks, the Eupnea project's Depthboot script[1], for example, lets users build/run a distro by extracting the rootfs from an ISO file, and apply Chromebook-specific patches, like using ChromeOS' kernel, using keyd to make patches to support the Chromebook keyboard's action keys, and much others. (Disclaimer: I'm the current maintainer of the Eupnea project.) [1]: https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder https://github.com/eupnea-linux-backup/depthboot-builder
- danans 3y ago
  If the question is about Google, they use the Chromebooks to connect to cloud hosted dev environments. Often these days that's the internal cloud based IDE whose UI is VSCode based. For many legacy command line tasks, you SSH to a cloud workstation. More than ever though, you can get away with a lot of programming tasks without ever touching a terminal. For those who really want a traditional Linux Desktop environment, you use Chrome Remote Desktop to connect to the same cloud VM that you SSH to.
bitwize 3y ago
As I understand it, yes, albeit it's much easier at Google than some places. Google is pretty much a supercomputer with a company built around it; the Chromebook can serve as your terminal into that supercomputer, accessing your files, codebase, and other resources all remotely.

septic-liqueur 3y ago

Couldn't agree more. I recently bought a cheap $200 Chromebook and I have to say that it outperforms my high end Windows + WSL2 machine from work for programming related tasks. Linux just works without all the WSL issues, I can run Visual Studio Code, Docker and anything that I tried so far. It's actually a delight to work on. I can only imagine how much better yet it will be with a top tier Chromebook

VWWHFSfQ 3y ago
I find this very hard to believe. There is no "$200 Chromebook" that will ever out-perform a "high-end" machine no matter if it's running Windows + WSL2 or not. So what are the specs of this "high-end" machine?
- freedomben 3y ago
  they did say "for programming related tasks" which could just be running vim. I agree though, this claim seems unlikely to me.
- mderazon 3y ago
  I meant to say that it "outperforms" less in terms of speed (although it's not bad relative to the price of the laptop) but more in terms of developer experience. Everything just works in Linux and it's fast compared to WSL which I get constant issues.
  - ksaj 3y ago
    The issue I see with WSL all the time is long waits as things start up. I have no idea what it's doing, but it is painfully slow starting nearly anything up. It's like drive reads are one character at a time or something! Once it gets going, things are fine.
    - d3w4s9 3y ago
      WSL still has a lot of problems. You can find lots of issues on github that are common problems but yet open for years without a solution. Examples: * Slower IO -- not sure if this can ever be fixed, but quite a bummer * cpu utilization at 100% due to an issue with WSLg #6982 * no access to Internet when host is connected to VPN #5068 * very slow network in some situations #4901 These are not some edge cases -- they affect things that I use every day. Some of them have workarounds but overall this is still not very usable. I decided that it was easier to just get a separate machine and install Linux on it.

pjmlp 3y ago

Paying top dollars/euros for a laptop with 8GB/128GB isn't my idea of an ideal developer laptop.

Teckla 3y ago
8GB/128GB goes a lot further on a Chromebook than it does on creaky, old, slow, bloated Windows. And Chromebook prices are very good. I recently got a Chromebook and I'm amazed at how snappy and fast it is. And its built in Linux is amazing.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  If you say so. I'm on windows and most of my memory is going to chrome and firefox. I've had some pretty severe issues with a chromebook running out of memory because the devs decided swap wasn't allowed (and I could never get the kernel to build and install properly). The builtin chrome definitely doesn't stop single websites from using most of a gigabyte of RAM.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Nope, not good at all, and my Asus 1215B proves otherwise. 300 euro from 2009, upgraded with 8GB and 1TB SSD, and with native graphics that beat WebGL 2.0, running latest Xubuntu.
  - omnifischer 3y ago
    if one is already a geek it is not needed. The only reason myself being a geek moved to chromeos - no need to worry if upgrading some Xorg will kill Xserver. Yes, it does happen if one has autoupdates - Will my zoom/camera/mic work after I make pulseaudio->pipewire-><whatever latest>? No idea but chromeos - just works - There are software engineers that have no installation/hardware/sysadmin experience (or they dont want to learn). - Just close and open device. Chromeos is instant. (yes, one can fiddle with pm-utils to get modules (un)loaded - no life is too short to fix these. - Many programs like netflix need some form of terrible DRM and dont work with linux. Some people still need to live with DRM.

Laremere 3y ago

I loved Chromebooks. However I've been pretty turned off by them when my Chromebook which was working perfectly fine recently told me it's not getting security updates anymore. Now because the OS and browser are the same machine, the whole system is insecure. Next laptop will be a framework, so I guess I'll see how that goes.

septic-liqueur 3y ago
They've extended updates recently https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366 For old models as well
- TheCycoONE 3y ago
  Not for the ones that ended support this August. I have a kevin (Samsung Plus v1) and flashed it with libreboot for Linux at that point.
heresie-dabord 3y ago
Similar to you, I'm a happy Chromebook customer with a good Chromebook that no longer receives updates since earlier this year. But Google also offers ChromeOS Flex [1] which I now run on my Chromebook. You can even install ChromeOS Flex on a non-ChromeOS PC. [1] https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/ https://chromeenterprise.google/intl/en_ca/os/chromeosflex/
foota 3y ago
I think they're decoupling the os and browser releases, although I'm not sure if it works for old ones or not. https://www.androidpolice.com/chromebook-decouple-chrome-from-chromeos/ https://www.androidpolice.com/chromebook-decouple-chrome-fro...

isp 3y ago

ChromeOS is wildly underrated in general, not only for software development. App sandboxing on standard (non-ChromeOS) Linux distributions is painful and finicky, while it "just works" on ChromeOS. I wish there was a non-hacky way to use Chromebooks without a Google account. The hacky options are: - "Switch to dev mode". But I don't want to be prompted to factory reset each boot. - "Create a dummy Google account and use that". But I don't want file syncing and tracking to reach Google at all, not even on a dummy account. - "Create a dummy Google account and use guest mode". But I want persistent storage.

freedomben 3y ago
Chromium OS might be a good choice for you. I ran it on my Pinebook Pro for a bit and really liked it, and it's much more open.
- isp 3y ago
  Thanks - I had a very brief look at Chromium OS, but couldn't spot answers to: (1) Is there a de-googled version of Chromium OS? (2) Is there a non-hacky way to install it to a Chromebook?
  - rd07 3y ago
    I haven't used it yet, but maybe openfyde.io is one of the de-googled versions of Chromium OS
- bubblethink 3y ago
  Nobody has the time to build, test, and maintain Chromium OS. Distros barely manage to build and maintain chromium.
ajross 3y ago
> - "Switch to dev mode". But I don't want to be prompted to factory reset each boot. Developer mode simply puts up a splash at boot warning you that the OS is custom, you just press enter to boot. The requirement to do a drive wipe is a one-time thing when you enable it the first time (for obvious reasons, to prevent exfiltration of data stored by a secured OS).

eikenberry 3y ago

How much of that has been upstreamed? I dug around a little but could only find things on upstreaming kernel patches.

Bu9818 3y ago
What in particular needs to be upstreamed and to what projects?

joeframbach 3y ago

[flagged]

wffurr 3y ago
Just because it’s a Google product? They use it internally.

nnwright 3y ago

Completely agree. Now if they would just add a meta key to the bottom row of the keyboard I'd be a happy user. Ctrl and Alt are not enough. And seriously, they are comically large on every chromebook I've owned. Give me a meta key in all that wasted space.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
There's the button that replaced caps lock. I mean, yes, I'd still rather have another button, but it does work in my personal experience.
- nnwright 3y ago
  Oh true, I'd forgotten that. Of course the issue with it being in a different place is that many people use multiple OSs and muscle memory is a thing. I'd rather have a reprogrammable key where meta should be.

amelius 3y ago

ChromeOS might be great, but I wish I could just buy it from an OS company, not a company that wants my data.

ssss11 3y ago

How does it go with things like tracking or serving personalised ads? Genuine concern with anything google. Current and future risks.

d3w4s9 3y ago

I used a Chromebook for a few months including for software development, but find there are a number of major issues (as of 2021): * window management was a hit and miss. I was not able to do split screen for a Chrome window and a Linux window (vscode). You can do that for two Chrome windows. A big disappointment * many GUI applications are only available through... Android Play Store, e.g. Cisco Anyconnect. Fortunately this works, but it's not an enjoyable experience. * Chromebook built-in keyboards usually don't have F11 or F12 keys, but you need them as a software developer. And there are a number of other smaller issues that made me feel it would be easier to stick with a "standard" laptop, although I do think there is a lot of potential. I sold that Chromebook later.

lucw 3y ago

So many people over the years tried to turn their ipad into a remote development machine and failed spectacularly, because of the aggressive app suspend (your ssh/web sessions get disconnceted) and the weird keyboard support in iOS (keyboard shortcuts for text navigation are not the same as PC). In the mean time, ChromeOS is the perfect OS for that. I have my own bare metal server with code-server installed. My chromeos 2-in-1 detachable is absolutely perfect for that usecase, and I can connect my split mech keyboard. Best of all ? I bought that ChromeOS tablet for $180 USD on amazon. It works BETTER for remote development than a $1000 USD ipad.