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The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't h
by smcg 3y ago
The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. The response has been further dehumanization. The older generations who don't have school-age children have been continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes. The wealthy parents sent their kids to private schools and try to defund public education, actively harming the children in their community. I don't blame the kids. Never blame the kids. They're not the ones in control of this. Blame the adults.
- willcipriano 3y agoThat's why we need school choice, give the working poor the same opportunity to abandon the public schools like the wealthy have.
- CHSbeachbum420 3y agoFalse. Taking tax dollar funding away from public schools only exacerbates the issue. School choice is a scam to fund private Christian schools to brainwash the youth and maintain a conservative voter base
- willcipriano 3y agoThe cost per student in the US is higher than every country in the world (save Luxemburg if I recall correctly). The problem isn't a lack of money, the problem is the money is misused. Private schools are just better stewards of the students dollars. I mean the teacher's unions have been screaming about smaller class sizes for decades, let's give it to them.
- lukev 3y agoThe cost-per-student of private vs public education is not an apples-to-apples comparison because the public school system is also obligated to provide transportation and special needs education, both of which are very expensive and neither of which are in scope for most private schools.
- vorpalhex 3y agoThe EU and Canada have those costs too... and are still spending way less per student than the US.
- lukev 3y agoIndeed, and it'd be worthwhile doing a comparison. My only point is that you have to make sure comparisons are accurate with respect to scope of services. Private schools in the US look artificially good in terms of both finances and performance because they end up selecting the more privileged students to start with.
- DrThunder 3y agoWhy do you assume the money would be taken away from the public schools? Is it because they suck? If so, you're right and it should be taken away from them. You don't improve if you aren't answering to anyone. If they're threatened with money loss you better believe they're going to start doing something to make their school more attractive and that's how it should be. Right now they can be absolutely abysmal at educating anyone and still receive tax dollars.
- wholesomepotato 3y agoIt's like some choice who brainwashes my kids. Are they going to learn about men being pregnant and go to a drag show or that god created earth 5 thousand years ago. Maybe i could even alternate every year so they are "well rounded".
- seanw444 3y agoDid homeschooling just fall off the face of the planet? Stop sending your kids to these kinds of schools. Take the initiative to be learned enough to teach your kids at least the fundamentals, and then instill in them the drive to want to learn more. It's made much easier with the advent of the internet. And someone's probably going to respond "but muh socialization!" In what other real-life scenario are you going to end up with a bunch of people who are almost identical in age, with little to no responsibilities, regurgitating shit with no incentive other than that you have to be there, or else? You don't. After that, it's off to either real school (university) where people are all at various stages of their education throughout their life, chasing education in fields that actually benefit them and the rest of society; or they work a job where there's even more diversity and generally less interaction with people. Lower school is an alien place to be, and always has been.
- seanw444 3y agoHaving choices is bad. Today I learned.
- cat_theorist 3y agoDid you miss the /s tag here?
- slothtrop 3y agoIn other words, replace it with nothing. That doesn't help the working poor. If you mean another private option, they aren't going to shell out for a "discount" school over public schools, and nothing prevents them from trying.
- ToucanLoucan 3y agoThe problem with "vote with your dollars" is that the more dollars you have, the more votes you end up with. The wealthy can already do this anyway: having those resources means you can live wherever you want, and thanks to the fact that school funding is primarily done via property taxes, the wealthy can move where they like to a school of their choice that will then benefit from that funding. Unsurprisingly this means schools with a lot of wealthy students already attract other wealthy students due to their successes largely brought about by funding, and poorer schools get even poorer as the few remaining people try their best to leave, because the school sucks. As I've gotten older I've become incredibly skeptical at the almost knee-jerk reaction to "give people choice and let them self select." What if the choice is difficult? What if it requires knowledge most people don't have? What if people don't need to live with the consequences of the choice? What if the choice affects not only them, but others who have no choice?
- ballenf 3y agoHow many strong WFH advocates are anti school-from-home? The anti-SFH sentiment seems to come from antagonism to which groups have been the first to adopt it, but I'm sure my bias affects my interpretation.
- mcntsh 3y agoI think it's unfair to say that wealthy parents send their kids to private schools as a way to actively defund public education. Parents are making this choice to give their kids a better education, and anyone with the same opportunity would do it too.
- thrxio 3y agoWealthy people don't like to pay taxes which funds the public education
- slothtrop 3y agoNot exactly a choice.
- mcntsh 3y agoAccording to the 2020 IRS tax report, the top 1% of American earners pay 42% of all income taxes, the top 10% of earners pay 74%. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1304.pdf https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1304.pdf In California, property tax revenue has been increasing steadily YoY... a $3.2Bn increase in 2020 alone. https://www.boe.ca.gov/legdiv/2021-2022/pub306.pdf https://www.boe.ca.gov/legdiv/2021-2022/pub306.pdf
- ericfrazier 3y agoBecause the middle class is shrinking. The wealthy also use their money to lobby against new taxes that would fund public education.
- hobs 3y agoHey look, numbers that don't mean what the person said. What percentage of their wealth do they pay? What are their effective tax rates compared to the working class? Why are capital gains taxes so much less than most income taxes? Why does our "progressive" tax rate stop growing in the 150k range or so? Which one of those groups can afford lawyers to structure their incomes to pay even less? The rich are not paying their fair share and generally have been paying less and taking more for decades, I don't know what you are on about.
- armchairhacker 3y agoSo the solution is…not go to school, missing out on basically the main resource to defend yourself from oppression (education)?
- seanw444 3y agoA primary source of oppression in some nations is the education system. To think that it's impossible to be wielded against us in kind, at some point in the future, is naive. You might think conservatives are stupid for homeschooling, but it's only a matter of time before the things being pushed in public school are things you morally/ethically oppose as well. Be the one to break the cycle. Be educated, educate your children to the best of your ability with the fundamentals, and show them how to want to learn more. That's how to set your kid up for success.
- simonsarris 3y ago> continuously draining education in order to have lower property taxes This is so provably false that I'm amazed anyone could have this opinion. The US spends huge amounts on education. More than almost any country. Neither education spending nor property taxes have declined. Government current expenditures: Education https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/G160291A027NBEA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/G160291A027NBEA Personal Current Tax Receipts: State and Local Government: Property Taxes https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/S210400 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/S210400 US education spending is one of the highest in the world, and is also increasing 2010-2019 faster than almost any country: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-expenditures-by-country https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/cmd/education-exp...
- bannedbybros 3y ago>The US spends huge amounts on education... for rich people FTFY https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/97916.asp https://nces.ed.gov/pubs/web/97916.asp
- chung8123 3y agoThat is from 1996. Not sure that is why all of the sudden kids aren't attending school.
- simonsarris 3y agoThat's from 1996 and definitely not true today. The $$ numbers there are also hilariously low now. Compare them to: https://www.aaastateofplay.com/school-districts-ranked-by-the-money-they-spend-per-student/ https://www.aaastateofplay.com/school-districts-ranked-by-th... Especially in inner cities, many of the better performing school districts spend far less than the places serving poor communities. Camden NJ is one of the highest spenders, so are a lot of city schools in Illinois. Famously "good" schools, like Stuyvesant which spends about $17,000 per student, don't even make the list. It's far below the average for NY!
- cristiancavalli 3y agoA more recent report echoing similar findings: http://hechingerreport.org/a-decade-of-research-on-the-rich-poor-divide-in-education/ http://hechingerreport.org/a-decade-of-research-on-the-rich-... https://hechingerreport.org/new-data-even-within-the-same-district-some-wealthy-schools-get-millions-more-than-poor-ones/ https://hechingerreport.org/new-data-even-within-the-same-di... https://www.epi.org/publication/public-education-funding-in-the-us-needs-an-overhaul/ https://www.epi.org/publication/public-education-funding-in-... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/upshot/biden-school-funding.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/upshot/biden-school-fundi...
- Amezarak 3y agoAmerica does have big problems with public education, but funding is not it. Even grossly underperforming schools are often funded at per-student rates well above the OECD average and even the US average. It's a frequent talking point in the US that underperforming schools are simply underfunded because they're in poor areas and thus don't get enough property taxes, but that's not what the data actually shows. For example, you may have heard of the mass-failure of Baltimore public schools, where not a single student in 23 of the district's schools exhibited even minimal math competency. It's the third highest-funded large school district in the US. Last year, the district was funded at 21k/student, compared with the OECD average of 12k. America spends enormous sums of money on education and gets less bang for the buck than probably any country in the world. https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/update-baltimore-city-now-americas-third-most-funded-school-system https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/update-balti... https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-results-23-baltimore-schools-have-zero-students-proficient-in-math-jovani-patterson-maryland-comprehensive-assessment-program-maryland-governor-wes-moore#:~:text=The%20Maryland%20State%20Department%20of%20Education%20recently%20released,percent%20could%20not%20do%20math%20at%20grade%20level https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/state-test-r.... https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-spending-per-student-2022-enrollment-performance-kirwan-new-york-boston-washington https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-ci...
- beepbooptheory 3y agoIsn't occam's razor here that, in fact, these enormous sums of money are not going to education? Like that this is all strong evidence of bureaucratic misappropriation, corruption, text book companies, etc? Or at least, I struggle to think of what other reasonable point one could make about the insight.
- Amezarak 3y agoSure, there are a lot of factors like that. - Bloated school administrations and the employment of all kinds of semi-professionals that were not needed or did not even exist in the past, and which are not common outside of the US. - Excessive credentialist requirements that sometimes actively harm learning outcomes: for example, not only do degreed teachers not produce better learning outcomes, much education science is bunk that actively harms learning outcomes. If you employ only more expensive Master's in Education teachers who you have teaching three-cueing, you end up with worse results. - Grift and graft where various school contracts are awarded to enrich particular people; there was a video going around of an extremely nice school with a swimming pool, large auditorium etc compared to an absolute junkyard of a school elsewhere, but the nice school was actually built for much less money than the junk school. - Endless interventions that serve to do nothing but set money on fire, like the fads around filling classrooms with iPads and Chromebooks. All of my children's math education and homework takes places exclusively on computers. There was actually another recent story where Baltimore schools are buying every student a Chromebook. Lots of educators have a sort of cargo cult belief that handing kids computers makes them tech-literate and prepares them to be a SV programmer. - Discipline. Unfortunately there are some uncomfortable truths that people don't want to address and take serious action to remediate. A few dozen really bad students in a school can absolutely destroy learning. You can find myriads of videos of classrooms where teachers have been forced to totally give up. The only day they even bother to give a lesson is if the worst actors decided to take the day off. Relatedly, in many places, policy is to do everything possible to not hold students back, which compounds issues over the years. I am very sure there are many more items we could add to the list. Some items will apply much more to some areas than others. Unfortunately there is no one silver bullet solution. The point is that adding more money does not do anything to solve the real problems with American education. You just end up handing more money out for graft and waste to enrich people are not actually making a difference educationally.
- chung8123 3y agoTaxes have not gone down in any of the cities mentioned. In fact property taxes have been increasing a lot since the value of homes have increased. The other point is none of the issues need money to solve them: The advent of remote learning during the pandemic altered students’ routines and led many to conclude that in-person attendance was optional. School districts have eased grading policies that penalized students for missing class or turning assignments in late, further reducing incentives to attend. After years of Covid quarantines, parents are more inclined to keep kids home for minor illnesses or mental-health issues. Technology isn’t helping: There’s evidence that absenteeism had already begun rising in the years before the pandemic, coinciding with the explosion of smartphone and social-media use among children — which increased distractions and weakened students’ connection to school. Those problems only worsened while schools and other activities were shut down.
- fuzzfactor 3y ago>Why aren’t America’s students showing up? Thye probably just don't want to be there. >The pandemic showed students that adults treat them and other adults as chattel. Exactly more than ever. >draining education in order to have lower property taxes. Not exactly this. There is no lower property taxes. They are trying, not very successfully, to keep property taxes from increasing as exorbitantly as they would otherwise.