11 ms·

Russian oil sold to India at 30% above Western price cap, traders say

39 points by donutloop 3y ago

NickC25 3y ago
This has been quietly going on for some time, at least since the West imposed limits and price caps on Russia's exportation due to the Ukrainian war. Now, I just don't understand why nobody has said anything yet. The delta is just way too big and oil far too valuable a resource for stuff like this to go unnoticed for as long as it has. Granted, I understand that India is kind of on its own geopolitically and part of their strategic interests might be securing a closer tie with Russia (for whatever reason), and this might be a bribe-in-kind of some sort, but still, I am quite confused as to how this has gone under the radar for as long as it has.
- cubancigar11 3y ago
  Because that oil is not being consumed in India where it is still Saudi oil running the cars. That oil is being bought by Europe and USA.
  - NickC25 3y ago
    The US is still using Russian oil and India is just a middleman taking a 30% cut?
    - blitzar 3y ago
      Yes. (you maths is out a little but you have the right idea, India pays 30% over the $60 price cap - paying them $80 then sells on at market price to everyone else for ~$90)
    - stg22 3y ago
      Indian firms are importing Russian crude oil at a discount, mixing it with crude from unsanctioned places, refining the mix and selling it for full price on the open market as unsanctioned oil. New Delhi is confident the US is so desperate for an alliance against China, it can't afford to do anything about it. That's also why it expects no serious repercussions for assassinating a Canadian citizen in Canada.
      - frankharv 3y ago
        They also took cocaine off Trudeau's plane during the G20 summit recently. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/ottawa-denies-reports-of-drugs-on-justin-trudeaus-plane-548926 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/ottawa-denies-report...
        lesuorac 3y ago
        > Former Indian ambassador to Sudan Deepak Vohra said on Monday there were “credible rumours” that “sniffer dogs found cocaine on his plane”, and that Trudeau “didn’t come out of his room for two days”. I feel like there's a lot of holes here; wouldn't people notice Trudeau's 2 day absence from his 3 day visit to India? Pretty sure India's ambassadors are as trustworthy as when Russia's said UK [2] bombed Nord Stream 2. https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2023/08/30/prime-minister-travel-indo-pacific-strengthen-ties https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2023/08/30/prime-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_G20_New_Delhi_summit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_G20_New_Delhi_summit [2]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav...
        reducesuffering 3y ago
        They claimed that. I wonder why India might want to make up ridiculous claims about Canada recently, hmm...
        killdozer 3y ago
        You don't actually believe this given the recent issue between these two countries do you?
        m00x 3y ago
        This was a diplomat joking about the claims from Canada that had no evidence. Canada said "We have credible evidence about India involvement murder of a Canadian citizen". The diplomat meme'd with "We have heard credible rumours of cocaine being on Trudeau's plane". Then the joke got misrepresented either accidentally or purposefully for clicks.
      - deleted 3y ago
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      The US gets most of its oil domestically, but since oil is traded globally, even if it isn't actually getting oil from Russia, maybe parent post thinks it is still complicit by letting India use the oil itself?
- tut-urut-utut 3y ago
  There’s no US army in India, as opposed to Germany and other EU countries. Only colonies are obliged to follow empires interests. India is independent for quite a while and in this case does what it deems it’s best for it.
  - NickC25 3y ago
    I get that, that was my whole point - why is India doing this, what is the geopolitical benefit they are getting by engaging in this?
    - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
      > what is the geopolitical benefit they are getting by engaging in this? It is an open, yet officially unstated, policy of the Indian government since the 1950s that the USSR/Russia must never be put in a position wherein it fully tilts towards China. India, China and Russia are the three powers on the Asian continent. A 2v1 situation would be catastrophic for India. Sensible people in power in the West may not agree with the India, but they understand this. Arm chair generals on social media and those writing for Western media outlets do not.
      - op00to 3y ago
        Thanks for explaining that. It makes perfect sense!
      - NickC25 3y ago
        Fascinating, and thanks for the response! I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. India would be in a tough spot if China and Russia had a much closer relationship, especially as China and India don't really get along that well. So India needs to strengthen its relationship with Russia by any means necessary in order to have Russia in their corner as opposed to Russia being in China's corner. There's a lot of nuance to geopolitics, clearly!
        seanmcdirmid 3y ago
- mamonster 3y ago
  Cos people don't want to talk about it because it would mean admitting these sanctions don't really work as intended. Within another 3 months we might have mainstream media finally admit that Azerbaijan and/or Turkey are reexporting large quantities of Russian gas for the foreseeable future.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    If the sanctions don't work as intended, do we move on to military strikes on petroleum infra?
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Yeah, you can be the first out of the plane, or is that "we" working really hard there?
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Would writing a check to Ukraine for military drone hardware count [1] [2]? I feel like jumping out of a plane is a very simple, inefficient idea of a path to success here, especially considering what qualifies as force projection today. Not asking for anyone's boots on the ground if that was what your question referred to. Also not an armchair warmonger, just exhausting watching the unnecessary suffering continue [3] [4] due to an aging megalomaniac. [1] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukraines-drone-strikes-are-a-window-into-the-future-of-warfare/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukrain... [2] https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/united24/ https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/united24/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_inva... (four of my siblings have served multiple tours of duty in various branches of service; I rely on them for subject matter expertise in this domain)
        vasac 3y ago

39 points by donutloop 3y ago

This has been quietly going on for some time, at least since the West imposed limits and price caps on Russia's exportation due to the Ukrainian war. Now, I just don't understand why nobody has said anything yet. The delta is just way too big and oil far too valuable a resource for stuff like this to go unnoticed for as long as it has. Granted, I understand that India is kind of on its own geopolitically and part of their strategic interests might be securing a closer tie with Russia (for whatever reason), and this might be a bribe-in-kind of some sort, but still, I am quite confused as to how this has gone under the radar for as long as it has.

cubancigar11 3y ago
Because that oil is not being consumed in India where it is still Saudi oil running the cars. That oil is being bought by Europe and USA.
- NickC25 3y ago
  The US is still using Russian oil and India is just a middleman taking a 30% cut?
  - blitzar 3y ago
    Yes. (you maths is out a little but you have the right idea, India pays 30% over the $60 price cap - paying them $80 then sells on at market price to everyone else for ~$90)
  - stg22 3y ago
    Indian firms are importing Russian crude oil at a discount, mixing it with crude from unsanctioned places, refining the mix and selling it for full price on the open market as unsanctioned oil. New Delhi is confident the US is so desperate for an alliance against China, it can't afford to do anything about it. That's also why it expects no serious repercussions for assassinating a Canadian citizen in Canada.
    - frankharv 3y ago
      They also took cocaine off Trudeau's plane during the G20 summit recently. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/ottawa-denies-reports-of-drugs-on-justin-trudeaus-plane-548926 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/ottawa-denies-report...
      - lesuorac 3y ago
        > Former Indian ambassador to Sudan Deepak Vohra said on Monday there were “credible rumours” that “sniffer dogs found cocaine on his plane”, and that Trudeau “didn’t come out of his room for two days”. I feel like there's a lot of holes here; wouldn't people notice Trudeau's 2 day absence from his 3 day visit to India? Pretty sure India's ambassadors are as trustworthy as when Russia's said UK [2] bombed Nord Stream 2. https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2023/08/30/prime-minister-travel-indo-pacific-strengthen-ties https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/news-releases/2023/08/30/prime-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_G20_New_Delhi_summit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_G20_New_Delhi_summit [2]: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-navy-personnel-blew-up-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-2022-10-29/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-british-nav...
      - reducesuffering 3y ago
        They claimed that. I wonder why India might want to make up ridiculous claims about Canada recently, hmm...
      - killdozer 3y ago
        You don't actually believe this given the recent issue between these two countries do you?
      - m00x 3y ago
        This was a diplomat joking about the claims from Canada that had no evidence. Canada said "We have credible evidence about India involvement murder of a Canadian citizen". The diplomat meme'd with "We have heard credible rumours of cocaine being on Trudeau's plane". Then the joke got misrepresented either accidentally or purposefully for clicks.
    - deleted 3y ago
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The US gets most of its oil domestically, but since oil is traded globally, even if it isn't actually getting oil from Russia, maybe parent post thinks it is still complicit by letting India use the oil itself?
tut-urut-utut 3y ago
There’s no US army in India, as opposed to Germany and other EU countries. Only colonies are obliged to follow empires interests. India is independent for quite a while and in this case does what it deems it’s best for it.
- NickC25 3y ago
  I get that, that was my whole point - why is India doing this, what is the geopolitical benefit they are getting by engaging in this?
  - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
    > what is the geopolitical benefit they are getting by engaging in this? It is an open, yet officially unstated, policy of the Indian government since the 1950s that the USSR/Russia must never be put in a position wherein it fully tilts towards China. India, China and Russia are the three powers on the Asian continent. A 2v1 situation would be catastrophic for India. Sensible people in power in the West may not agree with the India, but they understand this. Arm chair generals on social media and those writing for Western media outlets do not.
    - op00to 3y ago
      Thanks for explaining that. It makes perfect sense!
    - NickC25 3y ago
      Fascinating, and thanks for the response! I did not know that, but it makes a lot of sense. India would be in a tough spot if China and Russia had a much closer relationship, especially as China and India don't really get along that well. So India needs to strengthen its relationship with Russia by any means necessary in order to have Russia in their corner as opposed to Russia being in China's corner. There's a lot of nuance to geopolitics, clearly!
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
mamonster 3y ago
Cos people don't want to talk about it because it would mean admitting these sanctions don't really work as intended. Within another 3 months we might have mainstream media finally admit that Azerbaijan and/or Turkey are reexporting large quantities of Russian gas for the foreseeable future.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  If the sanctions don't work as intended, do we move on to military strikes on petroleum infra?
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Yeah, you can be the first out of the plane, or is that "we" working really hard there?
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Would writing a check to Ukraine for military drone hardware count [1] [2]? I feel like jumping out of a plane is a very simple, inefficient idea of a path to success here, especially considering what qualifies as force projection today. Not asking for anyone's boots on the ground if that was what your question referred to. Also not an armchair warmonger, just exhausting watching the unnecessary suffering continue [3] [4] due to an aging megalomaniac. [1] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukraines-drone-strikes-are-a-window-into-the-future-of-warfare/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/ukrain... [2] https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/united24/ https://www.ukrainianworldcongress.org/united24/ [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_in_the_Russian_inva... (four of my siblings have served multiple tours of duty in various branches of service; I rely on them for subject matter expertise in this domain)
      - vasac 3y ago