3 ms·

> There is, at least for me and many others, simply no tangible, concrete reason to have kids, beyond the nebulous sense of pride and accomplishment I used to

> There is, at least for me and many others, simply no tangible, concrete reason to have kids, beyond the nebulous sense of pride and accomplishment I used to feel like that... until I had children. It is an experience that can't be understood until you live through it. We can use words to try and describe it, but to a non-parent it will sound like a "nebulous sense of pride and accomplishment" because of how far removed it is from their past experiences. It's like trying to use words to explain music to a person who has never felt it.

satvikpendem 3y ago
Yes, but having a child is not a reversible decision, so having a child just to see what it feels like is something that I would not risk doing, especially if the risk is non-zero.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  I used to think like that, too. If you ever have a child, you will understand, like so many of us before.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - satvikpendem 3y ago
    Again, just because you understood doesn't mean I or others necessarily will. It seems to be just like religious belief, in a way, only the risk is much higher and more concrete than Pascal's Wager.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      All I'm saying is that you are not alone. Many of us have had the same doubts and found the experience to be (very) positive. You won't find answers to this by trying to rationalize it, because you can't know what it's like until you experience it, if you ever do. You do you, my friend. I could no possibly have less at stake here, one way or another. Have a nice day.
    - delecti 3y ago
      More concrete yes, but losing Pascal's Wager means hell. I'm pretty happy with the childfree lifestyle, but it's hard to argue there's any chance that I'm evading a fate worse than hell.
      - satvikpendem 3y ago
        The implication I was making is that Pascal's Wager is basically unusable as it assumes the Judo-Christian god whom Pascal was familiar with. There are many other gods that may have different belief systems so choosing one out of potentially infinite deities means that it's not a threat that is worth taking seriously. In contrast, you cannot put the baby back inside if you don't like it, so to speak, and your earthly concerns are much more affected than some nebulous concept of hell that may not even come to pass should you choose a good god.
  - jbombadil 3y ago
    Thats a big bet. Hope that you will get to some enlightenment by doing something that is irreversible, life changing and veeeery expensive. It’s like buying a 1M dollar without seeing it and having someone tell you “you’ll love it when you cross the threshold because I did with my house!” Not saying it didn’t happen to you or your experience is invalid. But extrapolating your experience to everyone else feels dismissive about the doubts they are expressing.
    - b112 3y ago
      Fun fact.. when you have children, some of your soul is sucked out of each of you, and given to the child. The child's soul, whole, grows... whilst your damaged soul whithers. Evidence of this can be seen by the zombie like appearance new parents have, still coping with this horrible loss. As time passes, you become more accustomed to this loss, and it becomes like Stockholm syndrome. You eventually like it, embrace it, concoct wild fantasies about how great the experience is. It is your own mind defending you from the horror, and more importantly, you wish this same fate upon others. Don't believe them. Don't trust them! Keep, cherish, protect your soul.
      - mensetmanusman 3y ago
        Fun fact, this is not true for most parents.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > But extrapolating your experience to everyone else feels dismissive about the doubts they are expressing. I am not extrapolating my experience to everyone. I'm pointing out that the vast majority of people who have children find it a positive experience. Lastly, I'm not dismissing their feelings, I am reassuring them that they are very common indeed.
      - jpster 3y ago
        > the vast majority of people who have children find it a positive experience. How do you know this?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Post child depression and regret is a thing, not limited to just the moms. Diving into it based on faith that your feelings about it will get better is gambling in a huge way.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > Diving into it based on faith that your feelings about it will get better is gambling in a huge way. But that is not what I'm saying, is it? I'm saying that having doubts before having kids is very common, and that they dissipate once you actually become a parent. Having children is an adventure for which you can never be prepared. Every parent takes a leap of faith and does the best they can, regardless of how much or how little confidence they had. That's it. I would be more concerned about the ability of somebody to raise a child if they didn't feel apprehensive, because that would suggest they underestimate how much effort it is going to take.
      - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
        Sure. If you just have doubts, I get it. But if your partner doesn’t want it at all, then you need to really not push the issue (and if you really want kids, consider changing partners). The trick is understanding you and your partner well enough to distinguish between doubts and no.
        david-gpu 3y ago
        > But if your partner doesn’t want it at all, then you need to really not push the issue I completely get where you are coming from. I was the partner who didn't want children at all. I didn't want the responsibility, the loss of freedom and the financial burden. We then had a child and any doubts I could have had dissipated: I now knew with absolute certainty that I did NOT want to raise children. No room for doubt whatsoever. I struggled with anger, depression and grief of my previous lifestyle. A few years later I'm perfectly satisfied with not one but two kids. We would have a third if we were young enough. All of this is to say: it is a life-changing experience and no amount of doubt or certainty before the fact can prepare anybody for the reality of it. Thus, people overthink it in my opinion. Do or do not have kids, but let's not pretend that any of us knows what they are getting into until they are in the middle of it. Your priorities in life and your very own identity changes.
  - dalyons 3y ago
    Idk I have a kid and I think that’s a BS line. It’s explainable; saying it’s some mysterious unknowable thing is a cop out.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      Did you have a good grasp of what it was going to be like before having children? None of the parents I have met feel that way.
deleted 3y ago
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satvikpendem 3y ago

Yes, but having a child is not a reversible decision, so having a child just to see what it feels like is something that I would not risk doing, especially if the risk is non-zero.

david-gpu 3y ago
I used to think like that, too. If you ever have a child, you will understand, like so many of us before.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  Again, just because you understood doesn't mean I or others necessarily will. It seems to be just like religious belief, in a way, only the risk is much higher and more concrete than Pascal's Wager.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    All I'm saying is that you are not alone. Many of us have had the same doubts and found the experience to be (very) positive. You won't find answers to this by trying to rationalize it, because you can't know what it's like until you experience it, if you ever do. You do you, my friend. I could no possibly have less at stake here, one way or another. Have a nice day.
  - delecti 3y ago
    More concrete yes, but losing Pascal's Wager means hell. I'm pretty happy with the childfree lifestyle, but it's hard to argue there's any chance that I'm evading a fate worse than hell.
    - satvikpendem 3y ago
      The implication I was making is that Pascal's Wager is basically unusable as it assumes the Judo-Christian god whom Pascal was familiar with. There are many other gods that may have different belief systems so choosing one out of potentially infinite deities means that it's not a threat that is worth taking seriously. In contrast, you cannot put the baby back inside if you don't like it, so to speak, and your earthly concerns are much more affected than some nebulous concept of hell that may not even come to pass should you choose a good god.
- jbombadil 3y ago
  Thats a big bet. Hope that you will get to some enlightenment by doing something that is irreversible, life changing and veeeery expensive. It’s like buying a 1M dollar without seeing it and having someone tell you “you’ll love it when you cross the threshold because I did with my house!” Not saying it didn’t happen to you or your experience is invalid. But extrapolating your experience to everyone else feels dismissive about the doubts they are expressing.
  - b112 3y ago
    Fun fact.. when you have children, some of your soul is sucked out of each of you, and given to the child. The child's soul, whole, grows... whilst your damaged soul whithers. Evidence of this can be seen by the zombie like appearance new parents have, still coping with this horrible loss. As time passes, you become more accustomed to this loss, and it becomes like Stockholm syndrome. You eventually like it, embrace it, concoct wild fantasies about how great the experience is. It is your own mind defending you from the horror, and more importantly, you wish this same fate upon others. Don't believe them. Don't trust them! Keep, cherish, protect your soul.
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      Fun fact, this is not true for most parents.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > But extrapolating your experience to everyone else feels dismissive about the doubts they are expressing. I am not extrapolating my experience to everyone. I'm pointing out that the vast majority of people who have children find it a positive experience. Lastly, I'm not dismissing their feelings, I am reassuring them that they are very common indeed.
    - jpster 3y ago
      > the vast majority of people who have children find it a positive experience. How do you know this?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Post child depression and regret is a thing, not limited to just the moms. Diving into it based on faith that your feelings about it will get better is gambling in a huge way.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > Diving into it based on faith that your feelings about it will get better is gambling in a huge way. But that is not what I'm saying, is it? I'm saying that having doubts before having kids is very common, and that they dissipate once you actually become a parent. Having children is an adventure for which you can never be prepared. Every parent takes a leap of faith and does the best they can, regardless of how much or how little confidence they had. That's it. I would be more concerned about the ability of somebody to raise a child if they didn't feel apprehensive, because that would suggest they underestimate how much effort it is going to take.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Sure. If you just have doubts, I get it. But if your partner doesn’t want it at all, then you need to really not push the issue (and if you really want kids, consider changing partners). The trick is understanding you and your partner well enough to distinguish between doubts and no.
      - david-gpu 3y ago
        > But if your partner doesn’t want it at all, then you need to really not push the issue I completely get where you are coming from. I was the partner who didn't want children at all. I didn't want the responsibility, the loss of freedom and the financial burden. We then had a child and any doubts I could have had dissipated: I now knew with absolute certainty that I did NOT want to raise children. No room for doubt whatsoever. I struggled with anger, depression and grief of my previous lifestyle. A few years later I'm perfectly satisfied with not one but two kids. We would have a third if we were young enough. All of this is to say: it is a life-changing experience and no amount of doubt or certainty before the fact can prepare anybody for the reality of it. Thus, people overthink it in my opinion. Do or do not have kids, but let's not pretend that any of us knows what they are getting into until they are in the middle of it. Your priorities in life and your very own identity changes.
- dalyons 3y ago
  Idk I have a kid and I think that’s a BS line. It’s explainable; saying it’s some mysterious unknowable thing is a cop out.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    Did you have a good grasp of what it was going to be like before having children? None of the parents I have met feel that way.

deleted 3y ago

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