5 ms·

I agree. Most people I know who don‘t want to have kids it’s primarily because they don‘t want to give up their lifestyle. Having a child means less money, less

I agree. Most people I know who don‘t want to have kids it’s primarily because they don‘t want to give up their lifestyle. Having a child means less money, less free time and less individualism. Our priorities have changed but some want to be able to have everything without compromise.

IshKebab 3y ago
That's true, but you can't just dismiss the fact that modern life (primarily the fact that both parents work) makes having children extremely difficult. It's getting better - especially since the pandemic - but most jobs are not remotely flexible enough to deal with school hours or sick children. Nursery is insanely expensive in most countries. I really think a mortgage style option would make a lot of sense here because it's a ton of money for a short time. Or, just make it free like some countries do (and the Tories pretended to do in the UK). Life still assumes only one parent will work. Our school regularly schedules meetings and events in the middle of the day at short notice and expects that will be fine.
- perrygeo 3y ago
  This is something that child-free people fail to understand. It's not just about priorities and "scheduling time" to be a parent. That would be great but it's a fantasy. Reality is being on-call 24/7 to deal with the dozens of logistical problems that come up. It's not just the number of hours but their distribution across the day, the fact that you've got to coordinate 2 work schedules + n children's calendars, and the fact that parents largely don't have any control over the agenda. Does this impact parent's earning potential? Absolutely. I cannot find a single day on my calendar where my wife and I had an solid block of 8 hours to focus on work. It just doesn't happen. Thankfully I have flexible work hours otherwise it would be literally impossible. As it stands, it's merely exhausting and unsustainable.
  - hyperbovine 3y ago
    That has always been true in some form or fashion though, what you are describing is not a uniquely modern problem. To me the x-factor that makes child rearing especially challenging is lack of a support network. Mobility has made it routine to live hundreds or thousands of miles from your family in a way that did not happen before fairly recently. For most of us, our network consists only of other couples with young children who are all going through the same thing.
    - dalyons 3y ago
      Also, the modern problem of both parents being forced to work. Previously one would stay home. The two income trap is real.
      - jen20 3y ago
        It's not a "trap" if it's the only way to buy a house and avoid falling into the renting "trap" instead...
        dalyons 3y ago
        i think you should look up the phrase, because thats exactly what it refers to. That we need two full time incomes to afford a house is a new thing, and is the "trap" we have built for ourselves.
tetris11 3y ago
> because they don‘t want to give up their lifestyle Almost. They want the same lifestyles that their parents had growing up. I do blame the housing market for this. If you rent for the rest of your life, nothing will stop your rent from increasing and your wages from stagnating, and those two lines will cross at some point. With kids it's sooner. The only security you can have is to own a home to guard against any future price gouging.
- themaninthedark 3y ago
  I think more correct would be, they want the same lifestyle that they think their parents had growing up. I know an older couple, same age as my parents, they take their entire family on vacations and have a very nice house. They talk about how when they started out they made their own furniture out of paper mache. My parents had a similar lifestyle, things were not easy then either.
  - phatfish 3y ago
    The house price to average income ratio has become much worse over time in most "developed" economies. There is a mountain of good enough cheap products now due to global supply chains, but you have to stuff them into a tiny flat/apartment. Sitting on a papier-mâché chair in a well sized home is by far the better situation.
pydry 3y ago
Like the entitlement that comes with wanting to own the roof over their head?
- somedude895 3y ago
  Many of those I know with kids rent. As I said, matter of priorities.

IshKebab 3y ago

That's true, but you can't just dismiss the fact that modern life (primarily the fact that both parents work) makes having children extremely difficult. It's getting better - especially since the pandemic - but most jobs are not remotely flexible enough to deal with school hours or sick children. Nursery is insanely expensive in most countries. I really think a mortgage style option would make a lot of sense here because it's a ton of money for a short time. Or, just make it free like some countries do (and the Tories pretended to do in the UK). Life still assumes only one parent will work. Our school regularly schedules meetings and events in the middle of the day at short notice and expects that will be fine.

perrygeo 3y ago
This is something that child-free people fail to understand. It's not just about priorities and "scheduling time" to be a parent. That would be great but it's a fantasy. Reality is being on-call 24/7 to deal with the dozens of logistical problems that come up. It's not just the number of hours but their distribution across the day, the fact that you've got to coordinate 2 work schedules + n children's calendars, and the fact that parents largely don't have any control over the agenda. Does this impact parent's earning potential? Absolutely. I cannot find a single day on my calendar where my wife and I had an solid block of 8 hours to focus on work. It just doesn't happen. Thankfully I have flexible work hours otherwise it would be literally impossible. As it stands, it's merely exhausting and unsustainable.
- hyperbovine 3y ago
  That has always been true in some form or fashion though, what you are describing is not a uniquely modern problem. To me the x-factor that makes child rearing especially challenging is lack of a support network. Mobility has made it routine to live hundreds or thousands of miles from your family in a way that did not happen before fairly recently. For most of us, our network consists only of other couples with young children who are all going through the same thing.
  - dalyons 3y ago
    Also, the modern problem of both parents being forced to work. Previously one would stay home. The two income trap is real.
    - jen20 3y ago
      It's not a "trap" if it's the only way to buy a house and avoid falling into the renting "trap" instead...
      - dalyons 3y ago
        i think you should look up the phrase, because thats exactly what it refers to. That we need two full time incomes to afford a house is a new thing, and is the "trap" we have built for ourselves.

tetris11 3y ago

> because they don‘t want to give up their lifestyle Almost. They want the same lifestyles that their parents had growing up. I do blame the housing market for this. If you rent for the rest of your life, nothing will stop your rent from increasing and your wages from stagnating, and those two lines will cross at some point. With kids it's sooner. The only security you can have is to own a home to guard against any future price gouging.

themaninthedark 3y ago
I think more correct would be, they want the same lifestyle that they think their parents had growing up. I know an older couple, same age as my parents, they take their entire family on vacations and have a very nice house. They talk about how when they started out they made their own furniture out of paper mache. My parents had a similar lifestyle, things were not easy then either.
- phatfish 3y ago
  The house price to average income ratio has become much worse over time in most "developed" economies. There is a mountain of good enough cheap products now due to global supply chains, but you have to stuff them into a tiny flat/apartment. Sitting on a papier-mâché chair in a well sized home is by far the better situation.

pydry 3y ago

Like the entitlement that comes with wanting to own the roof over their head?

somedude895 3y ago
Many of those I know with kids rent. As I said, matter of priorities.